SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Wife having an affaire with her best friend (My best friend's wife)

Desperately seeking advise as I have no idea what to do due to complex situation

Background:

We have been married for 25 years, and living together for 30 years. When I met my wife, she had a 2 year old daughter that we lovingly raised together, and that is now married and we now have 2 beautiful grand kids… all living only a few miles away. I am lucky enough to work from home.

When we moved to our current house , we quickly became best friends with our neighbors, a younger family with a 12 year old son.

My wife is in the early 50s, I am in my late 40s, and our friends are in their mid-late 30s.

Things just clicked with them, and we are very often doing various sports and activities with their family, including their son, as we have a lot in common with all of them. They all mean the world to us.

We enjoye spending time as couples with them, and at times, the men separate to the women…. It all seemed like a great balance, with everyone happy.

Since we are neighbors, we often have diner and drinks at one house or the other… since no driving necessary, we have on occasion had a few extra drinks… which grew to more and more heavy drinking over the last year…. Especially with the women together.

Since my wife does not work, nor his wife, they have been spending a lot of time together doing various sports, shopping, day shopping trips here and there.

In the past --- months, our wives have been having frequent extra drinks at one of the homes… note that NO one does drugs…. Falling asleep in early evenings, while the husbands chatted, played cards, played video games whit their son, watched TV, etc…. Later in the evenings, our wives were often too drunk and asleep, so they crashed at their place, in his wife's bedroom. (Note that our friends have never shared the same bedroom since he snores a lot, but they are a very happy couple…. She sleeps upstairs on same floor as their son, and he sleeps in basement)

I noticed that they became a bit abnormally close when they drank a lot…. And more and more her friend frequently insisted that she stays over since she was too drunk.

I personally caught them either hugging for long periods of time, just holding on to each other, when asleep they were sleeping close with one arm or a leg on top of each other, head on the other, spooning closely, etc… things you would see in a young couple in a new love.

On a few occasions when we checked up on them to see if they were ok, I found them drunk and kissing, rubbing private parts on the other's leg, and hands all over each other. (They were dressed)

They also have been taking the occasion overnighter to do kayaking, biking, and shopping trips… each time, when we talked on the phone later in evenings, it was clear they were both drunk

At that time, after 2 weeks of figuring how to address conversation, I had approached my wife in a morning to quietly, and neutrally discuss situation. She was surprised of my observations and did not recall any of the incidents, being too drunk to remember… I asked if she felt feelings for her, and confirmed that they were only best friend, and nothing else, and I did not need to worry…. However when they were drunk, which was mor often and more often, the same situation could be observed

I am sure my best friend also noticed, but I am sure he does not know what to do, or totally denies it, closing his eyes to everything…. But I am sure he knows something is just not right. He does have a son to also consider. I have never shared my observation with him, nor do I plan to, but i did ask him what he thought of our wives friendship, and he responded that he has never seen any such close friend, and that things were weird sometimes between the women.

I then decided to take my wife on a 2 week trip overseas to try to spend some quality time with my wife, and get away from the whole situation…. They talked and texted multiple times each day, and uppon our return, they had missed each other, so much, that they again got drunk at our house. Her friend fell asleep in our guest bedroom, and my wife joined her…. Both crashed and sleeping…. So the husbands agreed we would just leave them there to rest…. He left home, and I went to bed. A few hours later, I got up to get a glass of water, and heard some noise from guest bedroom. To my surprise, they had gotten another drink, and were both in bed extremely drunk, the sheets in the floor, kissing, partially dressed, hands in each others cloths, and being very intimate with each other…. They did not see me, and I quietly stepped back to absorb the situation.

My observation is that our wives seems like a young couple that just fell in love…. Always looking for excuses to to things together, buying similar things, both getting tattoos, etc.

So here I am, totally at a loss as to what to do, and how to address…. But I do know I need to have a very serious conversation with my wife…. I am totally clueless how to address since situation is very complex, and involved many families…. The potential downstream implications are very scary.

I am trying to absorb the entire picture, and make the right choice in words…. My head and chest are also about to burst….constantly thinking about the whole situation, and getting very little sleep. I am also sure my blood pressure is way up there.

The one thing I did notice through the years is when my wife drinks too much, on occasion, she does not remember most of it, the next morning… That is a sad fact. And Because of experience , I do believe her when she says she does not remember it the next morning. I am not an expert when it comes to alcohol, nor do I even know where to start on how to deal with the problems we are facing, but I am clearly aware that they do need to be addressed…. At this pace, this all can't end well in the long run.

I did have a totally opened conversation with my wife, and also asking her to speak to her friend about things…. By wife totally denies it, stating that it is totally absurb, and , makes no sense since she does not have those feelings for her. Her friend pretty much says the same thing, and also does not remember any of it. From my observations, it seems her friend has stronger feelings for my wife, and does not want things to stop between them…..

As you can probably tell, I am the glass half full kind of guy. I may also close my eyes, but I am definitely not blind. I am very patient, but definitely don't piss me off. :). Tough to find that right balance.

Some additional notes:

- her friend's life has not been easy due to many knee surgeries, then not too far back, a fist episode of epilepsy…. Hence she can't drive for a period of time. Mother Theresa to the rescue of course.

- Our neighbors are truly our best friends, and they mean the world to us.

- I did have a handful of threesomes in my life before I met my wife, and she does not know about them. All were myself with 2 other women…. Most were one night stands, but one of those lasted just over 2 months…. So I understand and respect this perspective… and then I met my wife & fell in love.

- Call it mutual respect for my best friend, but I would never screw his wife…. There are some boundary lines that are not meant to be crossed…. Even if other people cross it.

I love my wife very much, and I know she loves me also… I do wish for us to remain happily married.

Thank you for listening, and looking forward to your desperately needed advice

There appears to me to be a couple of problems here that you need to think about. One is that your wife may have a drinking problem. I can't obviously say for sure from a distance but I think you might want to tease that one out from all the rest of this and consider it. She should probably get that checked out.

The second is that your wife is having an affair with the neighbor. Take aside the gender because it really doesn't matter. She is having an affair and I do not believe for a second that she doesn't remember these incidents. That is just too convenient. What I really can't tell from your post is if you care? Are you okay with this continuing and just want her to come clean on it or are you not?

Hmmmm.......

**my apologies- bp**

I mean, it doesn't sound too threatening. But, it needs to be brought out to her husband and have some good and open communication.

[This message edited by thatbpguy at 9:28 PM, May 17th (Wednesday)]

If she's going to stick to the story that she doesn't remember, film it for proof and show her.

Then you need to have a serious discussion about what your limits are. And if she cannot stay within those boundaries then your marriage is in trouble.

If she only seems to pass those boundaries when alcohol is involved then it's time for alcohol dependency treatment.

If it were me, and she would not agree to fixing this issue, then I would take a hard line and start steps to get out of the marriage. If you start that process and she thinks you are serious, she may start to take action to correct the issue.

Lying is wrong and you can't honestly believe that they remember zero every single time.

If your wife really didn't remember, she would have pressed you on it, and she would have said "I did find my clothes gone and don't remember why or how it happened" - but no, she is just flat out denying it.

I don't know why you are so hesitant to just bluntly state what you have seen and then set out your boundaries for the marriage.

I also don't see the many families that will be ruined by this. If she divorced you to marry the other woman, I think life would go on as do other divorces.

As for now, it appears the patients are running the asylum and the doctors are just watching and waiting for the patients to miraculously cure themselves.

What do you think should be done?

Not to be funny but this seems kinda hot to me.

No - not funny at all. Just stupid. The only thing "hot" about it would be if both spouses had agreed beforehand to have an open marriage. Since that didn't occur the only thing hot should be DC... considering that his wife is having an affair.

To the OP:

Imagine for just a moment that your wife was sleeping with the husband. Would you feel differently about it? Why? Because it's cheating! It doesn't matter that it's a girl - and, btw, it doesn't matter how many threesomes you have had in your life. Was it during your marriage???

Look, your wife is having an affair - right in front of your face. She clearly drinks too much. And she doesn't remember what she does after drinking? Meaning... she's a black-out drunk? Seriously? If that's the case then you need to check her into a detox center immediately and get her the obvious help that she needs. Do you think that alcoholism is a joke?

I assume not - because you know, deep down, that she understands what she's doing. The night you caught her did she wake up with her clothes back on? How does she think THAT happened? Do you think she woke up and realized, "Hey... why are my underwear on the floor??" Of COURSE she knows what's going on!

Dude - your wife is having an affair. There are others here who have been through similar girl-girl situations (and guy-guy affairs, for that matter). Your actions should be no different than if she were fucking your neighbors husband.

1. You should be demanding that your wife completely abstain from alcohol. Clearly she can't handle it and drink in moderation. This is a no-brainer.

2. Your friendship with this couple needs to end. Sorry. I know they're close to you but you cannot have an AP remain as part of your life. People who reconcile from affairs often have to cut out significant others - including family members and very close friends who facilitate the affair. Your neighbors qualify.

3. Your wife needs to understand the gravity of the situation. She has cheated on her husband. Is she remorseful?

4. Lastly, and I'm going to just throw this out there - you seem very matter-of-fact about this whole thing. Does it bother you - meaning, your wife sleeping with this woman? I mean, if you're okay with an open marriage then you have a lot of rules to put in place.

If not, it's time to take a stand and set some boundaries.

Good luck.

She would have remembered it if you had flipped on the lights and yelled at the top of your lungs "WTF?!?!?!!!"

Try to think about this from the wives' point of view. Based on my observation of thousands of other affairs here, and your particular situation (but not unique), your wife lived you but you work all day and she is ... bored? And not ... close? emotionally with her? (hence, you can't even talk straight to a very significant thing going on and have told anons on a forum)(not trying to criticize, I think we all have our faults and failures in a long term marriage).

Empty nest. Time on hand. Very close friend who share ALL secrets. Soon became closer emotionally to her -much more so - than with you. Became affectionate. Drank and stepped over the line. Felt good. Love each other, can't ever imagine not being friends. Friends forever. Sexual activities are a continual of that.

They are happy together, and apparently still happy to be married. You work too much. Don't give her enough attention, not enough passion, not enough "intimacy," all you care about is (sports, video, cars, hanging with friend, etc.) There is a re-writing of history and facts of the marriage to rationalize the cheating. Still considers it "just friends" and "this isn't sex, just friends being affectionate.". For wife, this is a win-win. She gets her emotional, physical, sexual, romantic, affection, intimacy, FINANCIAL, REPUTATION needs.

This probably is what you're up against. Film them having sex (nan cam) or they probably won't ever admit. Tell her you've seen her putting hands in pants and I think she'll push to the limit of divorce before admitting. Push comes to shove, you or the other woman, I think she gets more out of the relationship than with you.

Possibly lay out that you want to be her best friend and share each other's inner secrets like her best friend and see what she says. Ask if she is closer to her friend than you. Ask her to re-assess the marriage with you, what does she really think about it, what can be improved. Ask if it seems right that she is closer to her friend than you.

Me, personally, I would just tell her I caught her being sexual with the other woman and my boundary is that marriage is sexually monogamous. I'm too old to be beating around the bush, I just get to the point.

Wondering what kind of advice you are asking for here. Are you asking if you should care about all this? It doesn't seem that you are all that concerned or upset about your wife's behavior. But if you do have concerns perhaps you should consider speaking with a therapist. If your wife truly doesn't remember anything when she drinks that indicates a serious medical problem. You might want to speak with a medical professional who is familiar with alcholism.

OP,

You are minimizing this because it's same sex. Make no mistake; they are in a full fledged PA and your marriage is in jeopardy. You need to wake up in a hurry. Their being drunk is no excuse.

I agree with the other poster that said this friendship needs to end asap and you need to make it non negotiable.

She needs to go no contact and allow you to verify that she has. With them being next door that's going to take some doing; but I see little choice other than moving.

Explain this to her husband and tell him he needs to pull his head out of his @ss as well.

[This message edited by badmemory at 1:20 PM, May 8th (Monday)]

I am sorry you have had to join us here.

Any type of affair is painful and heartbreaking.

I would suggest you read in the healing library in the yellow box to the left.

I would also suggest you get the book Not Just Friends by Dr. Shirley Glass.

Also look up the term Gaslighting. If your wife is blackout drunk perhaps she doesn't remember. If your wife is using alcohol to lower her inhibitors then alcohol is still a problem.

I know a lot of what you read is not something you want to hear. You have created a nice life cor yourself with your wife and your best friends.

Problem is you feel betrayed by what you saw and you don't want your life to change.

You didn't change it your wife and her affair partner did. If you say nothing it doesn't change.

You will be silently agreeing to an open marriage to keep things the same.

I would suggest that if you do not want to confront now, you get into individual counseling. I would also suggest they are not only in a physical affair or PA but an emotional affair or EA as well.

The problem with all this is, it was done without your consent. It is not something I could live with.

I agree with badmemory.

I suggest that you beg/borrow/buy a small camera with a zoom lens, turn off the flash feature, if lighting will permit, and keep it at the ready for the next sleep-over. Then see how good your wife’s memory is. Also share the pics with the neighbor’s husband.

Oh, gosh, what camera to get. I suggest a Canon PowerShot ELPH. It is the size of a pack of king-size cigarettes, and will easily fit in your shirt pocket.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but you may be in the process of losing your wife to a Lesbian affair, unless, of course, it doesn’t matter…

Best of luck,

Bye-Bipolar

DeeplyClueless,

There are a few things that you need to acknowledge and act on if you want to save your marriage.

The first is that your WW is an alcoholic. She needs to acknowledge this and get help to become sober. As long as she is getting passed out drunk on a regular basis, nothing good is going to happen to either of you or your marriage, even if she stops seeing the OW.

The second is that your WW is in a full fledged PA with your neighbor. This is also something that she needs to acknowledge. I suspect that she is lying to you about not knowing what she is doing. However, if she continues to refuse to admit it, the next time they get drunk and start making out in your home, record them and show it to her later.

There is a tried and true method for ending affairs. The first step is to demand that the WW cease all contact with the AP. If that doesn't work, the next step is to expose the affair to everybody that the WW cares about (family, close friends, the OPS, clergy) and ask them to help convince her to stop. If that doesn't work, the final step is to file for D (sometimes, this jolts the WW back to reality so that an attempt at R can take place, in which case the D can be postponed or called off).

Here's what doesn't work: (1) minimizing the seriousness of the problem; (2) failing to take action in the hope that the problem will go away on its own; (3) repeatedly discussing the problem with the WW but taking no action; (4) begging the WW to stop; (5) trying to learn to live with the problem out of fear that taking action will destroy the marriage.

Your situation is seriously complicated by your WW's drinking problem. Drunks have poor impulse control and worse judgment. Until your WW gets sober, you probably can't really start to address your marital issues. This means R in your case is going to be a longer and more tenuous process.

Your situation is further complicated by the fact that this is a same sex relationship. You need to learn if your WW is a closet lesbian or bisexual and, if she is, whether she is willing and able to go back to living a monogamous, heterosexual lifestyle. This is probably going to require extensive therapy.

Another complication is the closeness of your relationship with the other couple, including the physical closeness. Ending an A requires that the APs stop seeing each other entirely (NC -- no contact). In your case, this means ending your friendship with the other couple and one of you moving away.

The final complication is your obvious reluctance to do anything about this, presumably out of fear of ruining your marriage (although, in fact, your WW is the one who is in the process of ruining it). There is an old saying on sites like this one, that sometimes in order to save your marriage you have to be willing to end it. I don't think your at that stage yet but, unless and until you start getting serious with your WW and demonstrate to her that you will not tolerate her continuing to cheat on you, there is little reason to believe that she will stop.

I hate to be a wet blanket but I don't see your problem getting fixed any time soon. The combination of the proximity of the APs, your WW's alcohol dependence, the same sex aspect to the affair and your timidity indicates to me that you will not be able to convince her to stop, that you will not take decisive action and that, eventually, you will be left with the choice of learning to live with the A or leaving her.

I truly hope you prove me wrong about this by taking strong action now.

I don't care whether it's 'hot' or not.

Your wife is cheating on you with another woman.

You can end it, put a fork in it and hope it ends or lay down the law. Your friend may be in a bubble and not understand this but you do.

So my question is what are you going to do about it ?

You need to take authority but why won't you ?

I had a a conversation again with my wife today, and she had spoked to her friend about it, and her friend discussed with her husband, and he came to me this evening to have a 1x1 conversation. The wives fully admitted that they gave a drinking problem that needs addressing, and promissed to take steps to address. The second piece that everyone denies, including the husband, is the infidelity. Her husband assured me that there is no possible way his wife is a lesbian. Not surprising. No one said so, but It is clear everyone thinks i am imagining things. What i had not said is that i did (by accident) catch them on video making out on the living room sofa on a drunk evening. (We have a Canari camera in the living room for when we travel out of town.... i had forgotten to shut it off when we came back fromour trip). And when i walked in on them the other evening, i left my phone on the night stand, set to record audio before i left the room, thinking that if they returned, i would have more evidence.. which i niw do. I knew from past conversations with my wife, she she would never believe me.... and i guess, no one does.... or choose to close their eyes to this problem.

While i have all the amunition to prove this is in fact happening, i still do not care to share it just to prove my point... it's one of those last resort things, in case all else fails... kinda anyway... my business forces me to plan for hte worst.... i guess that is what i did subconciously in my personal life.

The alcool problem is on the table for them to address..... i still need to ponder the other problem of infidelity... yes, you heard right, i acknowledge it.... it is in fact infidelity.... i am not sure i am ready to face the downstream implications, including destroying other families, which is what would also happen... so iit seems i need more time to absorb that whole situation.

I do love my wife, and belive i could forgive her, however things do need to change.

It doesn't matter if she's not a lesbian. She is still having a physical affair with your wife.

It's not "hot". It's wrong.

Is your WW willing to go NC with the OW, especially while getting help with her drinking?

I would impress upon the OBS that while you are not saying that they are lesbians, they did indeed have an inappropriate relationship that you do not approve of in any way...whether any of them believe you or not.

Make sure he understands this is fact, not accusation.

If I were in your position, I would start looking for another house.

Your wife is cheating on you with another woman.

You are not taking action because she has you convinced that it's not as bad as you think it is because:

a) she's usually drunk while she's fondling her new lover

b)she can claim drunken amnesia and you believe her

c)because it's another woman she's cheating with, she thinks she can make it seem all innocent and you will buy it

and/or

d)guys think girl on girl sex is hot so why make them stop

Forgive me if I am wrong about that last one but I do think they are pushing the limits because they can.

If it was another guy spooning your wife you would have kicked his ass long ago.

These ladies are breaking the rules. They are just using their collective drunkenness and etc. to get away with it.

PS if your wife frequently gets so blitzed she doesn't remember getting it on with another woman, she definitely has a drinking problem.

I'm sorry this is happening to you.

Thinking about your conversations with your spouse and the other couple, I can't recall an old proverb that "you can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep".

I'm sorry, my friend. But I'm glad you found us. And I wish you will keep looking to extend your support circle.

What is really bad is that both these women have an evil routine – a pleasure-seeking stay-at-home effort-free lifestyle. with too much freedom (or too little knowledge to use this freedom wisely).

I honestly don't know what would I do in your case. Therefore, I simply send you my words of support. I hear you and you have more than enough evidence of your wife's infidelity. But don't expect her to change just because you want to. She knows what she is doing, and she likes it. Think for yourself.

Honestly, I think you need to look at your BF, is he complicit? Maybe he is OK with this.

If you are satisfied with the facts then the hell what they say or think. You know what is going on and should take steps to get yourself out of infidelity.

ETA: I see now you did not talk to your friend about this. My apologies.

[This message edited by DeWittle at 12:05 PM, May 9th (Tuesday)]