SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

No it isn't to late.

In fact getting clarity now is better then a year. Just because you didn't find out today does not mean you can't change your tactics. Rugsweeping is not going to work.

So make a plan.

Get an attorney to find out your rights.

In my opinion the 180 should only be used in tandem with the intention to divorce; to help you detach and to redirect your focus on you.

I would suggest you have a sit down conversation with your wife and tell her that you have started the D process, because for two months she has failed to demonstrate remorse, own what she did, and display any urgency to try to save the marriage that she destroyed.

Separate her from your bedroom and your finances. If the 180 is going to have any effect on her at all, that will be when.

Then see an attorney and get the ball rolling on the divorce. She'll either turn around or not. If she does, you can postpone the D. If not, you've got that much of a head start on your path to a better life.

[This message edited by badmemory at 10:08 AM, June 16th (Friday)]

It is NEVER too late to demand the respect you deserve. To make you a priority. To stop abuse.

180 is for YOU, and you alone. It may wake her up, as a result, but it's for you about, and should not be implemented or used to "show her" or "wake her up". It won't work if you do it for those reasons.

Be cautious though that when she sees you standing independently, and pulling away that she will be willing to do anything to save the M, at least that is what she will say. Let her back her words up w/ actions before you change what you are doing.

Call and set an appointment with a lawyer today.

Tushnurse is exatly right.

It's time to show your old lady you can let her go by taking the step.

If your lucky your old lady will start chasing you when she now sees the "180" approach .....the new you....

Again the 180 is about healing its up to the wayward to keep up or not.

How do I go about getting OBS info? My wife has told me that he's separated. She said this on d-day. Now she could be lying or he could be lying to her, hard to tell. I have his info, know his name, age, cars, address ect. The house he's in is a nice house and looks like a family home. Two cars, one of them hid in the driveway and then another car. He also has a teenage son, verified through FB. If they were really separated then I don't know why this POS would be living in the house. I mean most of the asshole guys I know say that they are separated but are really still married. So I don't really know what his deal is. What do you guys think? Is he lying to my wife? Just curious on your thoughts here. And then how do I find out his wife's info in order to expose to her? I told my wife on d-day that she had to end the A and to tell the OM (he's 46 and I'm 40) to stay away or I'd have to tell OBS. I did this in the beginning hoping we could disturb as few lives as possible. Obviously through the help I've gotten here that's not possible. Any thoughts? Suggestions?

I got the OBS's number via a Private Investigator although I think you might be able to do it on line nowadays.

Put your proof in your pocket, and go over there and wait until he leaves in his vehicle. Then go knock on the door.

His FB profile shows he has a kid but no wife?

Yeah no pics of wife or anything. I'm not on FB n have never been a social media person, not into it and with my job it's not allowed. I mean his page seems really basic. Just a few pics and of him, no real content or posts or anything like that. I just looked on his friends list and his son was on there but no sign of a wife. So I dunno maybe he really is separated cuz how could you friend your son but not your spouse? Nothing on the kids page showing mom either. No pics with wife on OMs page either. No pics w women either despite having women friends on FB. Just like 2 or 3 pics of him alone. None of or with kids either. Weird right?

You have an address, go online look at county property records, most likely they own house in joint tenancy, that will give you her name.

Then check facebook, or online searches should turn something up.

State/county real property records only list him as owner. No other names on there. Soooo ????

This sounds very similar to my situation, even down to her self shaming act. My wife would tell me how emotionally messed up she is and that I deserve better, etc. I'm on no contact now but I truly believe it was all an act to continue her affair. Sorry op, I feel your pain.

Hmmmm, did you try just googling him, or the address.

You have lots of option come up

VoterRecords.com

nuwber.com

whitepages.com

He really could be separated. I don't think it matters as far as telling his wife.

People here say it's a big no-no to tell the betrayed spouse that you plan to tell about exposing. But when I found out, when I confronted my wife, I told my wife to give me the information to reach other man, other man's wife, other man's job. Of course, I was ready to walk away at the drop of a hat, so I didn't really give a flying f. I was not worried about "saving my marriage" or "saving my family," I felt like that was already lost, no matter what my wife would do or not do from that point.

I don't know how you go through life afraid, I don't see anyone that saved anything in life that way.

Anyway, my point is that your wife knows all about the other man's wife's information, your wife would have checked the other man's wife out very carefully, because your wife would want to know who the competition was, and what the past would compare to.

My wife knew that there would be no reconciliation, there would not even be a consideration of that, unless I was able to talk to other man's wife and other man's employment. It would be a non-starter for me. And if my wife would give any significant push-back on that, there's no way I would want to stay married to her.

Don't think that my wife and family wasn't everything to me, too - they were the reason of my existence, everything I did for them - but when I found the affair, the marriage was no longer the same. Imagine you have built a house, it is perfect, everything you want in the world, then you come home from work and find the house had been in a fire and was charred and ruined. You can love how great that house was, but it's not great anymore. So please stop being so afraid of your marriage, it already is lost.

Like a house, you can rebuild. That takes two, and really, it takes about 80% from her and only about 20% from you. Too bad a marriage does not have a visual aspect to it, like a charred burnt-out house, because then you could really see the status of your marriage now, and you wouldn't have to be so worried about losing it.

So I would just tell her, give me the info on his wife, and if you don't have it, then get it to me, or else there won't be a marriage for you to stay in. You caused this 100%, and I expect you to start fixing this NOW. (I am pretty sure I can fairly easily find a new crappy wife who will cheat on me and not have sex with me, just like you, so step it up or you can go).

Wk55hn, good advice! That last paragraph made me want to do a fist bump or punch a wall or something

I think part of what makes me "afraid" or act and treat this situation the way I did is in part because of my past. I'm not saying it's an excuse, or acceptable to be treated like shit, but I'm adopted and I've always had issues with abandonment. I've read the Primal Wound and other books about people that were adopted and also talked about these issues in therapy on occasions outside of the MC we've done in this A. Again it's not an excuse but I'm just giving you all a little insight into why my mind might not have operated in a "strong" way initially. My youngest son is the ONLY blood relative I've ever known, the ONLY person I've ever had in my life that's "like me." Our other son, the 6 year old, is actually my nephew. My WWs brother lost his battle with Leukemia 3 years ago and my nephew came to live with us when his my brother in law passed away because his mother was a drug addict piece of crap. He was formally adopted by my WW and I about a year ago. So basically she was on board with legally bringing another child into our world despite carrying on the affair at that time. My world is crazy lol. Just giving you all some more background that may or may not be helpful to understanding me and my life.

This isn't a game like chess. It's not a game at all. Some situations are more difficult than others, based on our past, our spouse's past, our current situation with kids and family, etc. The cheating itself is more or less the same, the behaviors are within very limited ranges.

You deal with people who do wrongdoing and temptation in your job, and cheating is both of that. Nobody gives a shit what junkies say because they are liars, they'll lie to their parents and their spouses and they even lie to themselves. Cheaters are not much different, maybe to a lesser degree than a junkie.

Of course, your situation, your kids, your hangups, your faults, your expectations, hopes and dreams for the future, your belief in who your wife was, which definitely is not true in some respects, maybe are in others, gets some people all jumbled up. It's like when you have 20 tasks to take care of and you can't focus on them properly, can't prioritize them, and keep jumping back and forth. That's what you seem like now.

Don't think about this as a game, think about this as your life. Try to discount your preconceptions of who you thought your wife was, and focus in on what you know for a fact (her name, address, who her parents are - true facts) and forget about what you can't know for sure, e.g., her morals, her dreams, etc. Let go of whatever expectations you had for the future with your wife. She canceled all dreams with you and her. She is canceling them repeatedly every day. Take her out of your dreams and hopes for the future, you can leave a spot in there for her, but don't count on it. That's her decision, and she isn't choosing for it now.

You decide what you want in your life that you and you alone can control. You can tell your wife what you want, you can ask her for it, you can demand it, you can call it whatever you want, but asking her is probably the most accurate. Think about the junkie's words and ignore all her words, pay only to her actions. You know all the lies of the junkie, the ones you are catching, the wrongdoers you come across, and the various lies with words. Wrongdoing is similar across various wrongs done, so cheating and drugging is not all that much different, the lies told are the same. So you ask your wife to do the things you want, and you let her do those things, or not, and gauge it by her actions, not her words.

Asking does not mean you are saying "pretty please with a cherry on top," all polite-like. You can say "I expect this from you" and be a little forceful in your wording, but at the end, it's her decision to do it or not.

I personally don't like ultimatums or threats. Number one, usually the ultimatums are already silently there. For example, "If you don't stop cheating, I will divorce you!" Really, do you think she doesn't already know that? I think all of us understand when you cheat, your spouse might divorce you. And when you get caught, and then keep on cheating, your spouse really knows that. So why say it? It makes you feel better, but I think it makes you look weak. Especially when a week goes by, and she is secretly still cheating, and you're going to marriage counseling in the meantime. Number two, if you don't follow through, you look weak. Giving an ultimatum limits your options for possible future circumstances that you or her change and you can't foresee now.

1-This is not a game - it is your life.

2-Tell her what you want from her.

3-If you feel the need to give an ultimatum, then tell her something like "if you don't accede to my requests, I will do what I feel is necessary, including divorcing you, when I'm good and ready."

4-Start moving forward. Junkies usually don't get their shit together. Cheaters don't either. Cheaters have a better chance to recover in my opinion, but I still think it's at best a 50-50 proposition. My experience, the longer it takes to figure it out, the less likely she ever will. Moving forward might be getting an attorney and starting the process of how will it be without her in your life.

5-If you feel like you should tell other people, your family and friends, about the affair, then do it. I did not tell anyone because my wife didn't and she did everything I asked and I didn't really need it, I think I might have to support them more than the other way around. But if I had divorced, without a doubt I would have told my family and close friends why it was happening.

6-Try to act normal. Don't make up weird rules like "I will leave from 8 am to 5 pm, then I'll be home from 5 pm to 8 pm, then I'll sleep in my friends house or in my car ..." Live your life to the extent you can, don't jack around your kids with stupid shit your wife wants. She is so much messed up in the head than you, it would be like you changing your behavior because a junkie told you that you should. Crazy.

7-Try not to buy into stupid shit from your wife, her ideas, like you need to stay away from her so she can figure out if she misses you. And to go on "dates" with her, like you're supposed to be courting her. That's what she wants, and it's messed up. You two are married, you have kids, you had vows together forever faithful, so if you want to both go out together and have fun together, that's great, and if you want to do things that make her happy and she makes you happy, that's great, but it's not a date and you're not courting, and you're not going to decide "I didn't enjoy the date so I'm not going to see you anymore, I'll go out with other man next week so give me a call in a few weeks and I'll see if I miss you at all." Don't put your marriage on the same level as dating. Don't let her messed-up-ness infect you. Stay normal.

Thanks wk55, good post, great analogy and you should feted some real perspective. It's a tough day for me today cuz it's our 6 yr wedding anniversary and Fathers Day. Looking forward to enjoying this day with my sons...as far as the anniversary goes who knows? lol I did get her a card, but I doubt she got me one. We haven't even said happy anniversary to each other. My parents sent us a card wishing us a happy anniversary with many more to come 😕 I'm guessing nothing will be said about our anniversary on my WWs end. Should I not say anything either? Should I pretend it's just another day and not even give her the card I got? I know kinda of silly questions considering my situation right now but I'm just curious about what you all think??? Trying to make it through today...need some help. On vacation with all of them. I also got a fathers day card from my son that he made(awesome) and my niece gave me one too. Nothing from my WW tho, not yet anyway. Pfffff Thanks

This is hell, but if your doing the 180, then no card. Only talk about children and finances.

I have some basic principles, values, personality traits - I don't know the right word for it - but I have my own opinions, I know who I am, and I am comfortable with myself. I know my faults, and I know my strengths. That has come from my upbringing, my own experiences, and my observations. My parents, the parents of my friends, and my aunts and uncles, and as I got older, my brothers' and sisters' marriages, my friends' marriages. That's where I am coming from.

If you can see that you were not perfect in the marriage, well, that's good you are self aware, and it's good that you know are not perfect, but no person is perfect, and every single spouse has flaws that the other spouse wish would be a little better at. If you don't communicate, and in such a way to know the difference between "you put the toilet paper the wrong way in the roller" and "you make me feel like I don't exist" then you can't properly fix the problems. So her cheating is her fault alone, and you are virtually blameless if she was fine with your behavior. Even if you knew she was unhappy, if you didn't know it was that big of a deal, then you are probably like the most of us in the world, cheating or betrayed, who are not perfect.

Putting myself in your shoes, with the way I am, I couldn't stay married with a woman who told me

she loves me but she just really dislikes me right now. That she doesn't want to be around me. She's said 20% of this is what I did or didn't do in the past, things I e said that hurt her ect...and the other 80% is how she feels about herself when she's around me, the shame the guilt the fact that she's not worthy of my love, that she's a terrible person.

I think it's insurmountable. It's completely beyond my control, and apparently it is beyond her control, there is no plan for improvement, and there is no way forward there. If she loves me, then she can knuckle down and do some simple things, some basic human kindness type of things.

1. It is our anniversary and we are married. She can acknowledge it and give me a card. Maybe she is afraid, not knowing I may trigger and blow up at her, so I would say to you - give her the card and say "Happy Anniversary." Then play it by ear. You will at least know. I personally was the laid-back guy who let my wife do what she wanted to do, but my wife always knew I was the head of the family and she wanted that. When push came to shove, my wife wanted me to take charge. Your dynamic may be different. No matter, I think you should give her the card and let the chips fall. If you can take it emotionally. I could, apparently many here cannot. You seem to be aware enough about yourself.

I believe in being yourself. To say and do what you want. And to be normal and natural. It is your anniversary. It is abnormal not to acknowledge it in any way. It may be normal in many ways, but acknowledging it somehow. "I gave you a card, do you want it"? or "I did not give you a card because I don't feel like we are married?" or "I don't care how you feel, but I want this to marriage to work, I gave you a card, but I don't plan on being in this marriage by myself forever." Whatever it is, your true feelings can't be wrong.

What would be abnormal, and unfortunately I see it hear all too often, would be "I gave you a card because I still love you and want to stay married" and the response is "I think you're scum and I love other man" and your response covers "if I vacuum the floor and clean the dishes will you love me again." That might be a natural response, but I don't think it's a healthy response, and therefore it is not a normal response. I am equating "normal" with "healthy." If you can't tell the difference, I don't know how to fix it, and if you can't control it, I don't know how to fix it. It seems you can understand this. I hope so.

2. Father's Day. Happy Father's Day to you! You seem like a great dad. I can see you love your kids. But your wife is not healthy. I found out about the affair in March. In May, on Mother's Day, I made sure the kids made a big deal about that day for their mother, because they loved their mom, and their mom loved them, and this was not their drama to be involved in. Even here with the worst of the worst, I think most mom's and dad's do those things for their betrayed or cheating spouses on Mother's Day and Father's Day and birthdays.

If your wife doesn't do anything, and does not acknowledge it, that is beyond your control. You can react to it however you want. You can ask her why she wouldn't do that. I would want to know her mindset, her reason, that she wouldn't do that. I am the type who want to know why, then I can decide how to act going forward. So ignore it, or ask why, or maybe she did give you something or at least did something to help the kids give you something, but no matter what, enjoy the day with your kids. Tell them how much you love being their dad and how blessed you and them are in your lives together.

Try to take a day off from all this shit for today. Your problems will still be here tomorrow for you.

My 2 cents

You need to start focusing on you (and kids) and not her.

To me that would mean proceeding as accepting your M is now over. As many have said, if you want a chance to save it you must be willing to lose it.

To me it is obvious she is still in the A. Perhaps even having him over the house when you are not there. The no communicating with you after DDay to me means she is not willing to work on the marriage and therefore you must proceed as if it is ending.

Maybe it is, maybe it won't, but proceed that way. It's obvious she doesn't want you as you have been behaving, cow-towing to her every need so why not try a different approach as has been recommended here?

So, move back in as you have.

Watch her on vaca. She's probably going to be communicating with him right under your nose. Do u have access to her phone call and messaging records? Keep and eye on them.

If you want to not confront during vaca for the kids that's fine but as soon as it's done you tell her what you should have said on Day 1:

- It sounds like you are not interested in R with me or leaving the OM so I will be meeting with my lawyer this week and have him draw up papers to file for divorce. I will always be willing to coparent with you but I will not be a part of this or any infidelity in our marriage. If you have anything to discuss with me about home finance or the children I am here in the house, otherwise our next conversation should be with our lawyers.

TRYINGMYBEST, if you read enough threads here you will come to know that the BS's that are most successful here are those that are straightforward and direct and do not simple try to Nice or Hope themselves back into a happy marriage.

If you want example threads just ask and you can be pointed to some.

Either immediately or at some point in the near future she may come to you and ask what she can do for you both to work on R. If so, do not back down on moving forward with D but let her know if she is serious you she will have to comply with the following list of items (most of which have already been listed here to you)

1) a letter of NC to the OM that you see and approve and watch her send.

2) real NC. Meaning she quit her job so she can never see him or run into him again. Real ghosting. Blocking him from everything. If He tries to contact her she does not respond and she tells you. If he persists your lawyer can send him a cease and desist.

3) she writes out a full timeline of the A. Full details. And you review it with her.

4) she agree to a polygraph. You may or may not have her do it, but don't tell her that. If she really wants R she will agree

5) you both do IC. Her to figure out why she was willing to go beyond her vows. You so you can work thru the pain. You should do this whether you head for D or R.

6) at a later point you might start MC to work on what was missing from the M. But only after you both work on yourselves first.

7) Expose. Theaffair needs to be exposed to both your families and close friends. They need to be able to help you make it thru this R. Doing it alone with just the both of u and no one else knowing is doomed for failure. If she is truly remorseful you will both go to them together and she will admit what's she has done and what she is doing to make herself a safe partner for you. If she is not, then probably just end it here and move forward with D.

8) contact the OBS. You do it. She should help you. If she is truly remorseful she will want to do that for you. You should want to do it because it's the right thing to do for the OBS. If she won't tell her then I can only assume you are protecting him because you are still in the A with him and you'll be getting the D papers this week.

9) look at implementing a postnup. Others here can give you more details on how this works.

10) she provides open access to all her technology from now on. On demand. No time to delete stuff. If not then she's obviously more interested in having secrets than your M.

11) find a friend or family member for you to confide in. You shouldn't be going thru this alone.

Again friend, you can only decide how to proceed out of infidelity. But if you use the power of the brain trust here you will see that the most successful BS's find happiness sooner by acting from a stance of strength not weakness as you have been doing.

It may be thru R (which will take years of hard work but may be worth it to you) or D, but in the end you will be happier and feel better about standing up for yourself and your family.

Good luck!

[This message edited by Stevesn at 12:02 PM, June 18th (Sunday)]