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Hi all. I have been lurking for the past couple of weeks on the boards. This is an amazing community and I thank you all in advance for the support and advice that you will provide me. I was unsure if this post would be better placed here or in the reconciliation forum, but since I haven't told the story yet I thought I should start from square one.

My D-Day was my 40th birthday in mid May. I know that the affair is not my fault, but I suppose I could have timed finding the evidence better. I had suspected my WW of cheating for a couple of months. Our relationship had deteriorated over the past couple of years. We have two DDs, but the second one has major developmental delays and I think that we have both been depressed since her diagnosis about about 1.75 years ago. However, even before that our communication had ground to a halt and the intimacy had long disappeared; I've been celibate for about three years.

A month or so before D-Day, when she came home at 5am from a "work event," I had confronted her and she lied. She was always very protective of her phone and it was difficult to get access to it. I had checked a little after the original confrontation and saw on location services that she was not where she said she was. However, at that time she was deleting all of the WhatsApp texts with the OM, so the evidence was somewhat flimsy. I tried to check a couple of times thereafter, but she would often wake up when I tried to get her phone in the middle of the night. That leads me to the early morning of my birthday, when she slept soundly through my snatching her phone – I later found at that she had spent the prior day at his house and I suppose was exhausted from the sex. The evidence was there in spades. Among the affections and jokes - some at my expense, like the fact that my WW doesn't know how to do laundry because I do it for her (and, as I pointed out later, wash his DNA out of it) - was a conversation where it was clear that she was considering leaving me for him as well as a confession to him about a prior affair. While the text was vague, it was clear that the first affair occurred around the time of her pregnancy with our second daughter, so some time about four years ago. I had been completely oblivious to the first one, which I was told lasted a couple of months, and for most of the current one, which has been ongoing for 1.5 years. Both affairs have been with co-workers.

I woke her up that morning and told her that we are getting divorced. She begged and promised me all sorts of things, including full transparency (please note for later) and cutting off the relationship, but I was not open to anything other than a D. Shortly thereafter, perhaps even that night, she changed her cell phone password. The next day I drafted a financial settlement and parenting plan that I sent her, she was basically in agreement with my terms. I asked her to leave our apartment and move in with her parents or her OM but she refused. We compromised with us alternating weeknights and one of us stayed out of the house until the kids were asleep. My WW was moved to the sofa and 2nd bathroom and I was supposed to get the master bed/bath to myself.

I agreed to go to MC so that we could figure out how to communicate the split to our eldest daughter. The original timeline was to tell her in early June and one of us would move out by the end of that month. The MC failed to deliver on a good message, but I did agree to go one individual session thereafter to try to work out some of the sadness and anger. At that meeting, the counselor questioned why my WW hadn't gone back to the OM, insinuating that she still wanted to be with me.

The following week I went on a work trip and got home on a Sunday in early June. That night my youngest daughter had my WW’s phone and gave it to me when the wifi network disconnected. As I was scrolling through the apps to get to the settings, I saw WhatsApp open with a conversation with WW telling OM that she was looking forward to being with him again soon. I was confused if my wife had been lying to the therapist about her intentions. Anyway, that night when she was putting the kids to bed I left and found a potential apartment into which I could move within a couple of days and start to split the kids 50/50. I came home late that night, woke her up, and told her I was moving out. She again promised to stop talking to OM and give my transparency. She gave me her new phone password, which again lasted for maybe a day or two before being changed. It didn’t matter at that point, she had already gone back to deleting texts and had turned off location services (I had at one point mentioned that I guessed he lived on the UWS because there was an odd unexplained location ping).

At some point over the next couple of days I realized that I could monitor her WhatsApp activity without seeing the actual texts. It was clear that she was using the app incessantly and that OM was the person with whom she was talking. She started to notice that I was always on the app and realized that I was monitoring her activity. This lasted for a couple of days until we confronted each other about the activity. She has since been using WhatApp less frequently. She has told me she no longer converses with him electronically, but it is impossible for me to know.

As time wore on and we were cohabitating, I started to open to the idea of R. There are a number of reasons that could be characterized as good or bad, but to me what matters is that they are valid reasons. As soon as I came to the table to consider R she withdrew and said that she needed more time to decide what she wanted. Regardless, I gave her a set of conditions that were important for me to start to work on R. The most meaningful of which is that I needed to “plant my flag in the ground” and reclaim her. She was very taken aback by the suggestion that we need to be intimate again. She has basically been accusing me of trying to blackmail her into having sex and once even equated it to potential rape. It remains the elephant in the room as we consider R.

I also again insisted on her ceasing communications with OM and transparency into her phone. I had not yet found my way to SI and did not understand how fundamental these requests are to rebuilding trust. I had asked her to send an NC text to him that night (again not knowing about NC letters). She refused and said she wanted to break it off with him in person the following day. The next morning I reiterated my need for her to send the message in my presence. She refused. That night she told me that she cried in his arms for 30 minutes while telling him that she needed to try and make our marriage work. I flipped out and told her that I did not appreciate her valuing their relationship - and ending it in a way she thought deserving - over my needs. I insisted that I have the password to her phone, email, and iCloud. We fought worse that night than any other and she refused to allow me to monitor her “like a child.” I eventually threatened to tell her parents about the affairs and she immediately gave me her phone. I turned location services back on and put a password on her settings to prevent her from changing her settings. We fought more that night and I ended up taking the password off.

The next morning I felt like crap. I had potentially gotten what I wanted in terms of NC but then likely sabotaged the R with demands to monitor, even though I know it’s futile - for every way I can try to catch her there are probably 10 other ways that she hide the activity (outside of jailbreaking her phone and logging all activity). I also don’t really want to become obsessive/paranoid and live my life looking over her shoulder. I just figured that if I can put real restrictions in place for a couple of months, the reality of this guy could fade. I apologized to her for my actions of the prior night. I also got from her what felt like the first real apology for the A that didn’t include a “but” or blame shifting.

Well, it turns out that they still have clandestine meetings around the office. According to her, the meetings have been focused on the fact that OM is accepting an offer at a different firm, but it could take up another month for him to officially be out. I have tried to point out that these meeting are not as innocuous as she makes them out to be and that it’s a slippery slope between sneaking around the office and starting to sneak around outside of the office again. Plus, it’s pretty clear that she has poor impulse control. I mentioned to her the thread in the WS forum here about the co-workers that went from EA to PA despite both parties trying to fight temptation.

So that brings us basically to the present. In my mind, we have a weak commitment to R right now as she has not fully NC, although there is a real possibility that OM will be out of her life in a month or so. In the meantime, I’m afraid that she will relapse or just decide to sleep with him “one last time.” We are also iffy between the amount of transparency I want/need into her electronic communications but she clearly isn’t open to providing the access that she originally promised (it doesn’t help that the MC, now I guess an IC since the WW is the only seeing her, has agreed with her that she should have privacy). It makes it hard for me to commit to R with so much risk of continuing to get hurt.

Now we can get to the title of my post. I see lots of references to the “fog” but how am I supposed to be able discern what may be temporary, misguided emotions and true love on her part for the OM? I accessed her Pinterest account and there were a lot of quotes that she had been collecting. Several were along the lines of meeting the person that you are supposed to be with (presumably OM) at the wrong time (after marriage/kids). Plus, I suspect that I only saw the tip of the iceberg in the texts about her considering leaving me, as I’m sure that there was plenty of in-person conversation that ensued. Are these all normal parts of the “fog” or has her relationship progressed to far with OM, who is not married, that she truly does love him? I told her that I assume her reluctance to sleep with me is because it would feel to her like she’s cheating on OM with me. Also, that she may half ass this R for a couple of months to abate her guilt and then run back to him being able to show her chastity in the interim as a sign of true devotion to OM.

Anyway, we are scheduled to go away without the kids this weekend to see if we can reconnect and perhaps get a glimpse into what our relationship could be like if we R. I will try to invest in making it a good trip, but I have a lot of reservations based on what I’ve expressed above. At the very least, I had already hired a lawyer and am expecting a draft of the D filing any day. I suppose if the weekend doesn’t’ go well we can just start to move on.

Thanks again for listening.

Why do you want to be with someone who is pining away for someone else? I know it's hard to see a marriage disintegrate but nothing in what you say leads me to believe she at all wants to be with you right now. She only has eyes for him. I think you know that deep down. I feel for you I really do.

Here's the deal. If you keep leaving the door open and basically try to hope and wish her back into your arms this cycle will go on for years.

If you've been on here long enough you will know that famous saying is You Have to Be Willing to Lose the Marriage to Save It. That is true.

So you need to start detaching from her, not going away with her so she can pretend she's into it.

In the Healing Library in the top left of this page find the documents about THE 180 and read them and start implementing it. It will help you take care of yourself while detaching from her.

Then call the lawyer and get papers served. Divorces take a long time. If she happens to truly come out of the "fog" and want to really work on the marriage than you can while the divorce is proceeding. If a miracle happens you can stop the divorce at any time.

You know how they tell you when your car is skidding on ice you should turn into the skid even though it seems wrong, well you need to do the same here to get yourself out of infidelity.

Push her into his arms. Let her see that the fantasy doesn't meet reality when it comes to the day to day with him.

Tell her "you obviously are in love with Mr Shithead. Who am I to keep you from your happiness. I deserve to be #1 in my marriage and you obviously cannot provide that. I am letting you go. I will be working to get myself out of your infidelity and on to my own happiness. I am committed to coparent with you but for now unless it's about the kids or finance I'm not interested in discussing it with you"

NYC, I know this will not be easy, but it's really the only way. Your wife is not different than any other cheater out there. Some may wake up and realize the pile of shit they have dumped on their family. Many will not.

But it's true you do not want to be with someone that does not make you their one and ONLY.

At some point she may come out of it. She is NOT out of it now. You cannot love her or wish her or hope her out of it.

If she does come to you with full remorse you will know it. It won't look like the fake stuff she's been doing now.

You're currently no where near having a remorseful wife in front of you. If you did, you would know it.

- She would be inconsolable with the thought of how she was the cause of so much pain to the person she loves most in the world.

- she would be begging to know what she could do to make it right.

- for you she would want to let everyone know it was her that screwed up, not you.

- she would want to read books on how to support her BS

- she would be in IC as much as possible to figure out what went wrong with her and how she could finally tell her spouse who is the most important person in the world that thing you said happened to her years ago that affected her greatly

- she would feel your pain more than her own and put your happiness ahead of or at least equal to hers.

- she would give you an open timeline of everything that happened.

- she would realize what the OM really is and start being sick at the thought of him. She would start calling him names like POS for how he helped her destroy her life.

Be honest with yourself, have you seen someone like that in your house? You certainly haven't described someone exhibiting those characteristics.

Please think about what I have said. Read some of the threads here. A common theme is the best and fastest way to happiness is tell them you are moving on. You may find that happiness by actually moving on. Or you might find that taking control is the thing that actually save your M.

Good luck and give Turning into the Skid a try. The results may surprise you.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 12:17 AM, June 28th (Wednesday)]

Stop trying to monitor an unrepentant WW still in the A.

KILL the A!!!!

That means expose both her A's to both your families and all mutual friends....

And most importantly.....it means finding out if either of these shitbags (yes expose the first POS too) have gf's or are M and inform to their BW/gf's.

But you also need to make a firm decision in your mind if you even truly want R.....

I say that for this reason.....if you DO want R for sure.....then the job has to go or POSOM does.....

Easiest way to do that.....EXPOSE to her job.

Outing this scumbag to his BS and his employer will send him scurrying like the cockroach he is in order to save himself....blaming your WW and throwing her ass under the bus in the process.

That should wake your WW up to the fact this turd was using he for sex only.....and not the 'soulmate' she undoubtedly pictures him as now.

If, instead, you decide you just want to D, and get that process going again....

Then do not expose her at work.

You don't want her unemployed while you are divorcing for financial reasons.

But still do expose the A's (both) to all friends and family so she can't go around ruining your reputation and painting you as a monster who is to blame for the D.

Make a decision.....then expose appropriately and act.

if the weekend doesn’t’ go well we can just start to move on.

You're one of many here. Read hear yourself and see if you can even tell the threads apart from each other, the same is so similar.

She is agreeing to go on a weekend to "connect." Guess what she is going to do? (duh) She is going to connect enough to keep you from divorcing.

She could have divorced you four years ago. Or two years ago. Or last year. Or last month. Guess what? She doesn't want to divorce you. Maybe she needs you financially, almost definitely she can't bear the thought of the reputation loss she would get if known as a cheater, and very likely other man does not want to deal with your kids, doesn't want that baggage. And who will do the laundry? Other man is good for some things, you are good for others. Your wife likes it that way.

Isn't all infatuation, "puppy love," the butterflies, the painful to stay apart - isn't all of that "fog?" Isn't that how love starts for all of us? Then you have a relationship. Then if it all goes well, same values, get along, maybe engaged. Then if it still is good long enough, marriage.

If I understand this right, you and your wife haven't had sex in three years; your wife has had two affairs and one is probably still on going and the AP is her primary choice. She doesn't respect you or your marriage and is doing and saying things with/to the AP that is degrading to you. She appears to be someone who seems to care less for R and isn't even sorry for what she has done. There is no fog here. My advice is in the form of a question. WHY ARE YOU STILL THERE? I would also advise you to DNA test your children, especially the second one. I do wish you well.

Hi Notyetconvinved

I am in a rather cynical sate of mind right now so my post comes with a huge health warning.

I believe all the crap is pure BullS.

I believe to the depths of my soul that FOG= the most callus naked selfishness. Nothing else.

I see all these WW post about the agony of separating from OM and I want to puke.

If you feel like that about him divorce me and marry him. Nothing could be simpler!

You mentioned doing her laundry. All that stops now. Read up on the 180. It's time for her to do her own stuff and you to start detaching.

You have every right to total transparency, that is, if she wants to stay in the marriage. You aren't going to push her away. She's done that already.

As far as this weekend is concerned, you both need to be tested for STDs before any sexual contact is made again.

You know of 2 affairs at least. It's time to take care of NYC! If you've read here long enough, what you are doing has a name. It's called the "pick me" dance.

You are both playing along on the same script. Now it's time for you to flip it. She's had the upper hand, even now. She gives you just enough so you don't file. She has no remorse.

Shock and awe. Don't take it. Until her actions prove what she is saying. For many of us the light for our WS did finally come on. For others it never has. It's not about them. It's all about taking care of YOU!

God bless you, my new friend. You are just now starting on your journey through Hell. If you can detach now, it can make it a lot more bearable.

Speak to your attorney before you move out. Don't be accused of abandonment. See about getting a VAR (voice activated recorder). Keep it on you any time you are around her. This is not to catch her, it's for your protection. Many guys, even my Dr, have been accused of domestic violence by there spouse. My Dr was put into jail and truly had no idea why and no way to prove his innocence.

You may be thinking that your wife wouldn't do that. Here's a hint, your wife isn't the same person anymore. Your old marriage has been blown to bits.

Take care of yourself. Drink plenty of water. Exercise as much as possible. It helps to wear you out, so you can sleep. If you can't sleep or are having anxiety and depression see a physician for meds. They can truly help during this time.

Most importantly, stay away from the alcohol. It's a depressant. Not only that, you need a clear head right now. You don't need any reason to get into trouble or harms way.

Learn, if you haven't already, read the pinned post on the top of this forum. Read up in the yellow box, the healing library.

You can make it through this, you just have to change your tactics. I guarantee when you are near the end of this journey, you'll be much stronger!

Keep posting and follow the advice although it may seem cruel, we've seen this a long time.

[This message edited by Wool94 at 8:41 AM, June 28th (Wednesday)]

Also, that she may half ass this R for a couple of months to abate her guilt and then run back to him being able to show her chastity in the interim as a sign of true devotion to OM.

Your first mistake is assuming she has 'guilt.' She doesn't. She's been cheating on you for a long time - with two different men. I'll assume she's got quite the reputation at work.

Of course, all any of us can do is base our opinions on the information you provided in your post, and I'm getting the impression this is just a marriage of convenience for her at this point (maybe for you both). She checked out emotionally a long time ago and while she's panicking now that she's been caught and acting as though she wants to stay married to you, I don't think it's for the right reasons. I think it's for security and familiarity, quite possibly for financial reasons, and for what you both contribute in meeting the needs of your oldest daughter. I think her panic is more about upsetting the apple cart - a 'partnership' that works - than it is about loving you.

I'm not one to believe in a mystical, magical fog that overtakes a cheater and makes them do things they normally wouldn't do. Especially since cheaters have to make many many decisions in the beginning to enter into an affair and to continue staying in the affair, so does that mean they were already in the 'fog' from the first day they agreed to step over the line?

I think it's a bit naive to assume our cheaters have no emotional connection to their affair partners and that it's just pure 'fog' fueling their feelings.

She's emotionally connected to him and isn't ready to give him up. She's made that painfully clear again and again. Dragging her to marriage counseling isn't going to magically change how she feels about this guy, and a weekend away isn't going to do it, either. She doesn't want to give up her marriage for all the reasons most cheaters don't want to. But I believe she'll just be on her best behavior on your weekend away and for the next few months simply to instill a false sense of security in you while she continues her affair with lover boy.

I wouldn't invest 10 seconds in someone like this. You're setting yourself up for a fall, NotYetConvinced.

Beware.

Are these all normal parts of the “fog” or has her relationship progressed to far with OM, who is not married, that she truly does love him? I told her that I assume her reluctance to sleep with me is because it would feel to her like she’s cheating on OM with me.

It's not unusual for cheaters to cut off sexual relations within the marriage in favor of the AP. And it really doesn't matter if she's "in the fog" or "in love", the result is the same... she's disrespecting you and your marriage.

I know it's normal to experience that kneejerk reaction of wanting to put it all back together again and return to the status quo. But clearly, the status quo wasn't working for you. You haven't had sex with your own wife in three years, and when you mention that as a problem, she pretty much accuses you of trying to rape her. That's the current status quo in your marriage. I mean, think about that.

After discovery, we tend to focus like a laser beam on what the WS is doing. But believe it or not, that focus needs to be on ourselves. What do you want? What do you need? How will your needs and wants evolve over time? Why do you feel like you don't deserve BETTER than what you've had? What might your life be if you never had to monitor this woman again? What might it be to have the freedom to invest in a more worthy partner?

I ask you these questions as someone who has been in R for several years now. Even if you do manage to reconcile and it goes as well as can be, these questions (and many more) will still need an answer. Because after discovery, it's no longer about just ending the affair, it's about what it takes to heal from the wound.

You're not going to get what you need to do that if you're "Plan B". And when the WS doesn't drop the AP like a hot rock and do everything in their power to PROVE that you were Plan A all along, no matter what the real truth is, you'll never feel like more than a back-up plan.

You can be a great father to your children and still have a life that you can be thrilled to live. But that won't happen until you've checked in with YOU and rediscovered your own worth.

I'll be honest with you... I would cancel the weekend plans, see an attorney, schedule IC (individual counseling), and move the focus from keeping the family intact to self-healing and being a great dad. Utilize the 180 in order to begin detaching emotionally from the relationship.

Adultery leaves us feeling a void in our sense of self. Most often, we've over-invested ourselves in coupledom believing that we're one half of a whole. No matter whether we R or D, betrayal reveals how much of the self we've given away, and whether we R or D, we end up needing to reconnect with our own desires in order to heal.

Through your question, "is it fog or love?", the focus is clearly on your WW. This is typical, and it feels counter-intuitive to move the focus to yourself. But it's something that will have to be done eventually either way, Better now than later because it will bring you greater clarity as you make important decisions.

Wishing you strength.

OP, unfortunately you are the one in a fog. You are clearly not thinking rationally.

Your WW is a non remorseful serial cheater. As far as infidelity is concerned, it doesn't get much worse than that. If you attempt to reconcile, it will be a false R, you will be miserable and she will eventually cheat again. She has shown you who she is. Accept it.

Get tested for STD's.

DNA your children.

Expose her to your family, her family, and OM's wives.

Implement the 180 to detach from her.

See an attorney, separate your finances, and start the divorce process.

Are you certain of your children's paternity? The timing of the first affair (that you know about) worries me. You can get a home DNA test. I suggest you do.

Your wife doesnt care about you at all. She is cheating in front of your eyes.

She is serial cheater and problems your daughter have could be because of her first affair.

Affair never stopped.They work together and see each other every single day.

Expose them.Tell her parents,close friends,go to their job. You cant let them walk away for free.

Talk with your lawyer and see your custody rights.

Everyone else has given you great advise. Easier said than done, I know.

I wanted to comment on your MC/IC. Get rid of them. Telling your wife she is allowed her privacy is the biggest injustice your MC can do to YOU. I know, because my (former) MC said the same thing to my WH. I was adamant about transparency and access to his phone. She told me (right in front of him) that I didn't need it, he had a right to his privacy and me continuing to ask for it only showed I wanted to control him, which in turn pushed him away. Fuck that shit. Your MC is basically giving her a pass and allowing the affair to continue while telling you that you need to just trust your wife.

I am so sorry you're here and so sorry that you're getting doses of "tough SI love" - but I promise you, it's because we care and we've BTDT - we know what works and what does not. Please at least be open to what is being offered with regard to advice and what we see in your WW.

I echo everyone's sentiments...and...

there is a real possibility that OM will be out of her life in a month or so.

NYC...let's say he is. She'll find another man. she does not want you sexually/intimately (I'm sorry...I know that hurts)...to her, you are a roommate/housekeeper/help take care of kids (especially your DD who is special needs). She gets to go out and live in Skittlerainbowfartland and knows that all she needs to do is make some empty promises to you to further delay the inevitable.

I'm so sorry - I know I keep saying that because I know this is so painful...but you're going to be ok. Please read in the Healing Library and please find an IC qualified/specialized in matters of infidelity to help you cope. And of course, we will be here for you every step of the way, no matter what you choose, but of course, all we truly want is for you to get out of infidelity.

Sending you strength...

Lala

[This message edited by Lalagirl at 12:14 PM, June 28th (Wednesday)]

Welcome to the site. If you've been lurking then you know you have to expose this affair, especially the douche bag OM. Expose it to their work. Whatever comes of that is not your fault, it's theirs. Also, you don't know that he's leaving the company. You're being told that by lying cheaters. Cheaters lie. Believe nothing she tells you. Right now, this minute, she belongs to him, not you. She's got 1.5 years of chemical bonding going with him with all the ejaculating he's done inside her. If you don't believe that's real, look it up. His DNA has blended with her.

You're being too nice about this. She's getting off scott free. You know that. Change the dynamic. Be the leader of your family. Your wife is an emotional child. Treat her as such. You have to be the adult in the relationship because you're the only adult in it.

[This message edited by CincyKid at 12:23 PM, June 28th (Wednesday)]

Women don't have a major issue with breaking contact until they've had sex with the affair partner. It sounds like yours is sexually involved.

It starts off as friends then turns to infatuation (they think it's 'love') and physical contact (sex). The infatuation lasts from one to two years. As the infatuation fog lifts and they see who the other partner really is, then strife comes into the relationship. They then usually end up divorcing, if married, or breaking up. Of course they monkey-branch to someone else again during the strife period. If they can't find anyone to branch to, they come begging back to their former partner/s.

I'm sorry that you've discovered that your wife is a cheater. I've been there. Read the articles in the Healing Library. It will help you cope and help with steps of action.

You should do paternity testing on your kids. It likely won't matter to you at this time - you are their dad - but the kids might need the information down the road for any number of reasons. Letting them find out on their own is not a good plan...

Your wife is a serial cheater. Two affairs that you know about - how could you possibly believe there weren't others? Well, it shouldn't matter at this point because unless you are willing to continue your doormat ways, nothing is going to change so get used to the hell you are living in. You need to get her, or yourself, out of the house and file for divorce. Anything short of this is emotional suicide for you.

Expose her to your family, her family, and OM's wives.

Agreed

You are also entitled to 100% accountability. You have proven through your marriage that you are not that creep that wants to control her every move. Your trust for her is now at 0%. It won't last forever but you have a right to 100% accountability from her.

I have been where you are with an unrepentant WW and it took just over 1.5 years.

Cheating is like a drug. She gets a high from that dirtbag that she cannot get from you because its the forbidden fruit. Just as a drug user has to detox, so does she.

100% NC agreement is perfectly reasonable. She'll need to change jobs would be my suggestion.

Consider drafting a reconciliation legal document. In that document she agrees to stop cheating, 100% NC with OM, 100% electronic accountability etc... impose harsh penalties if she breaks the agreement as an agreement for divorce. See what she does with that...

Thank you all for your kind words and advice. Since it's not really possible to tackle each response individually, I'll lump everything into broad categories.

Divorce

I have had an attorney draft divorce papers and provided WW with them. Our circumstance sounds different from a lot of people on this site. We are both decent earners and pay significant marriage penalty taxes every year. I have told her for some time that it doesn't make sense for us to be legally married. This is certainly even more so the case now. I told her that we need to get divorced regardless of whether we stay together or not. In addition, since we have already agreed on the financial and custody issues - where I have been more than fair to her - I would prefer to document it now and not risk either of us renegotiating later with bitter feelings. Finally, with the divorce in place, we can end any potential false R in short order.

Paternity

I believe that my daughter is mine, based on the physical appearances. NY seems to have a weird law about DNA tests that it makes it difficult to do on your own. For example, a lot of at home kits available on Amazon state that they won't ship to NY or elsewhere if your credit card is NY-based. However, I do intend to get a paternity test, which I hope will come about when she is genetically tested - to see if that is a potential cause of her developmental delays - over the next couple of weeks.

No Contact

I believe that she is genuine about not having had contact with OM for the past week or so. I guess it helps that they have not been in the office together over that time. Still, it seems like she has broken off electronic communication with him. She has a work meeting today where they are discussing transitioning OM's responsibilities prior to his leaving the company. At that meeting she should find out when his final day will be. I still have reservations with them working together for the next week or two (especially the potential yearning for "one last time" together), but I can almost see the light at the end of this tunnel.

Expose

Given that he is leaving the company and she is staying, I would not want to jeopardize her job by exposing at the work place. I have told my family and friends as well as some mutual friends. She seems to harbor a lot of anger and it certainly is one of her reservations for not giving R 100% effort. I have not exposed to her family, yet, but assume that I will at some point. It feels like one point of leverage that I hold over her and, in fact, I suggested that she should figure out how to tell her family so that I can't continue to hold it over her.

I also identified the OMS from the first affair (the current OM is unmarried). I tried to reach out to her, but she did not respond to a direct email or LinkenIn invitation. Should I assume that her not returning my communications as a sign that she knows? If so, it would be very painful for me to know that she could have alerted me to the affair and did not. If I had known about the first one, we could have ended our marriage long ago and with fewer complications.

Reconciliation

So that brings me to where we are today. We went on the trip. I had installed my fingerprint into her phone to avoid the risk of her changing the pass code (which she continues to do). Knowing that she would be seeing him again, I decided to activate "Find my Friends" on her phone as a way of tracking her. The website that I had found that suggested how to do it must have been for an earlier iOS, because it did not mention that setting it up would send her a message that showed up in her texts about her sharing her location that I could not remove. She found it right before the flight, so we were off to a bad start. I told her that this is only an issue because she is not willing to provide full transparency, even though I do believe that she is NC on her phone. She continues to not be willing to unconditionally open up her phone to me. I told her that I can't imagine being in a relationship in a year or two where we do not have access to each other's phones.

As the weekend wore on, we had some good times and bad times. Saturday night I told her that we should just stop hurting each other and call it quits. I also told her that it may feel unfair to her the extreme feelings that I will have for her if we split (hatred for tearing apart my family) versus staying together (love, I hope eventually). She completely broke down and seemed like she really wants to stay together. I'll never know, but I feel like she would have been willing to have sex with me again in order to talk me off the D ledge. I was able to control my big head over the little one and refused her demands to start kissing her. We talked some more and she seemed truly remorseful. I told her that I could be patient and give our R more time.

The truth is that we have an artificial deadline approaching. Both of our daughters will be attending schools that are +40 minutes from our current apartment starting in early September. Even if we choose not to move, the lease on our apartment is up at the end of October. I cannot see us being in limbo for more than the next couple of weeks because the housing decision will need to be finalized and I don't believe that it makes sense for us to co-sign another year lease together without fully committing to R.

And it is still clear that she is not ready to give 100% to R. We spent the holiday together with the kids yesterday. Another reasonably good day. But once the kids are asleep, I can't help but feel like we have a weird tension that will not abate. I told her that the NC with OM feels more like she has put the affair on hold (recall she refused to write NC letter for me to see) and not shut the door. She basically admitted as much to me, saying she doesn't want to potentially regret letting him go. I told her that the companionship that she provided yesterday is something that I could pay a nanny $150 to provide for me and, without a commitment to be partners, there is no point to dragging on this R. This morning I again suggested that we should just move on with our lives.

I do not have a romantic view of relationships, to me settling down is settling. You are dating someone and have to decide if they are good enough or if you are willing to give them up for the uncertainty of a better partner (assuming that you are not willing to cheat on them to figure that out). For the person that she was, I would continue to make the choice to be with her and not search for a better match. For the person that she is, I don't think that is the case anymore.

I guess I still can't help but feel like I'd be the one throwing in the towel, though. There is a lot of associated guilt with respect to our DDs if I don't give this enough time to feel like I tried. It's been 7 weeks since D-Day and for the first 2-3 I was not willing to entertain R. I feel like I would still be willing to try if she would commit 100%. How long is reasonable to wait?

You've already given her enough time.

You're confusing regret for remorse. She's not one bit remorseful.

Other than NC, transparency is right up there with things one must have/do to try and reconcile.

It sounds like she had a burner phone.