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anon789, just an idea but I would let her know you are filing for D while she is on her little vacation. Go read those messages, screen capture them for your attorney, then send your WW a message that you are done and she will be served once she has returned.

Who knows...she may panic and end up extending her stay there, thus helping your fight for full custody. From that moment on her trip is no longer a "fantasy" but a kick back into reality. She will be severely handicapped from accessing legal advice from afar, thus giving you a significant head start on the situation if it ends up being a finalized D. On the other hand, if you two do decide to move toward R you don't want her final fantasy fling in NZ be a secret forever memory for her to cherish into R. You want the episode to be as emotionally painful and distasteful for her any time she recollects that moment.

Hey, her "friend" is there, right? If you have a way to get in touch with her friend (or even the OM) you can instruct them to take your WW to the local hospital if she threatens suicide again. That would probably lengthen her stay out there even more so (and teach her from using it as a manipulation tactic again).

Key thing here is bringing about consequences. Real tangible consequences. You been nice before and she stepped right over your boundaries. For your sake and you kids sake it is time to put the foot down with her and this is about the most perfect time as any. She has basically been caught with her hand in the cookie jar. So, are you going to slap her hand or let her tell you she wasn't really reaching for the cookies? Let her tell you some bullshit like she just wanted to count how many chocolate chips were in them?

Is it possible today was harder than yesterday? She called to FaceTime with the kids tonight which was nice since it’s been 4 days since they have seen or heard from her. She was wearing a heart necklace outside her t-shirt that I’m pretty sure is a gift from the OM. I think it is to send the message “I’m not yours” to me.

Two lawyers basically told me I was screwed today. None of the circumstances matter much in this state and she will get half of everything, and the kids for the asking. The lawyers were appalled at the Facebook posts and texts she wrote about the kids, but said she could claim they were jokes born of frustration. They also both told me it was extremely hard for a male to file a RO here, but not a female. If I raise my voice I could be out of the house. If the case goes to trial, some of the craziness could come out, but a good attorney would spin it all in her favor. I was also told that changing locks and serving her at the airport might feel good but would only serve to make her angry and wouldn’t help my case.

I know people think she might be with the OM now, but I can say with 98% confidence she is not. She is furious with me but only showing it passively. I have turned the other cheek after a couple cruel texts and Facebook posts today. I’m sure most of you don’t understand why I still love this manipulative, sadistic, horrible woman. I don’t know why either (I acknowledge it’s messed up and asked my therapist to see me ASAP). Something snapped in her and she is a different person than she was 2 years ago. Perhaps this evil person was always just below the surface.

At the moment, my plan is to play it cool for a few more days then ask if she’s still going to Auckland (aka OM-ville). If she is then I will give that line about “re-evaluating my desire to be in a relationship” and then start papers rolling. I would probably also tell her friends and family about the A. The lawyer advised against this as they would choose her side. I think she needs psychiatric help and perhaps a family intervention could convince her she needs it.

-Anon

[This message edited by anon789 at 10:45 PM, March 5th (Monday)]

How could it be worse than it is right now? You sharing your wife with another man and she sending you messages by wearing his gifts while she talks to your kids that she apparently secretly hates?

Just woke up (quite literally) to the realization that her alternate personality is actually the one I see. She is not so much having an affair as she is trying to get me to divorce her while she’s with her real man. The only way she could be more gone from the marriage would be if she were in New Zealand. I’m sure it looks more obvious from the outside. How could I have been so stupid? This is going to get costly... and I’m already broke. I need to decide on a lawyer... probably the one who already started the papers for me.

-Anon

You're not just a betrayed husband, Anon, you're also a medical doctor, right? So, if you have a patient presenting with symptoms of a dissociative disorder and threats of suicide, what is your treatment plan?

In terms of the cost of divorce, it's said that divorces are expensive because they're worth it. But I'm thinking maybe you're not at the divorce decision yet? Maybe the thing to do would be to set your treatment plan as a boundary (bearing in mind that you need a third party to implement it so you're not treating a family member). This would create a record of your WW's mental health issues which may (or may not) be utilized later for the protection of your children in court. At the minimum, your WW ends up stabilized, at which point you can freely decide whether you want to divorce her.

My recommendation would be to continue working with your attorney, but also to take a step back and look at this with a more clinical view. If your WW is out of touch with reality, she's not just an untrustworthy wife, she's an untrustworthy parent. And you are in a position to force the issue of getting help through either an inpatient treatment program or an outpatient program where it can be determined whether she's safe enough to interact with your babies.

Consider having two choices ready for her when she gets home. Either sign the settlement agreement (which should be heavily in your favor and give you primary custody of the children with supervised visitation for her) or remand herself to such-and-such facility for diagnosis and treatment of her illness.

Your WW made some pretty serious mistakes in creating this alter ego and threatening suicide. Use those mistakes to your advantage.

[This message edited by ChamomileTea at 5:05 AM, March 6th (Tuesday)]

I’m sure most of you don’t understand why I still love this manipulative, sadistic, horrible woman.

Oh, don't worry. We do. While the specifics of your story are unique to you, it's actually basically the exact same story we've all been through. I went through the same exact behaviors, same exact feelings. It took a while to get to a place where I really felt I had fallen out of love (I was mostly there after 3rd D-day and about a month of really trying to save things on my part), , but I *really* felt it after full separation. At some point I had some big realizations, and they eventually sunk in. You need to come to these realizations, too. They were basically this:

1) As hard as it is, I cannot love a person who would make me into a cuckold and force me to share her with another man.

2) As hard as it is, I cannot love a person who would put my family and me in a variety of dangerous, embarrassing, and hurtful situations.

3) As hard as it is, I cannot love a person who not only treats me like a pile of human dogshit, but who also clearly *doesn't* love me and loves another man instead.

Falling out of love was the most freeing, salvation-like experience I've had in this process. But I had to work on it, be very conscious about it. At some point I really had to wake up and face reality. It made all the difference.

The concerns your lawyer brought to your attention are real. You need to stay stoic and calm throughout all of this...it will serve you well in the long run, anything less will not. Be calm and friendly in your decisiveness about what's coming next for you and your kids.

This is going to get costly...

Yeah, maybe. But nobody will put you in debtor's prison. Make smart choices, take deep breaths. You'll get through it.

sent you a PM

I have got to say that I am slightly concerned about your lawyer! He/she seems to be passive and not the shark you need to go after her for some of the things she has been saying AND doing!

He shouldn't be advising you not to get tough with her for fear of a good lawyer turning the stakes in her favour, he should be saying that he will rip a new hole in any lawyer that tries to pass this off as a joke when she presents a real threat to the well being of the kids. Are you sure about your lawyer?

Divorce is costly. But if she has already driven you into debt and has spent the kids’ college money on trips to New Zealand keeping her may be even more expensive.

Tell me, anon789. What makes you think she wants the children more than you? What makes you think she would want you more than her ON? What makes your attorneys think she would want the children more than you or tgat she would fight you tooth and nail in this D.

It appears she loathes being a full time mother and full time wife. She is in NZ with the OM to escape both realities. Why would she want to hurry back into the two things she is attempting escape? What are her real motivations? I think she is showing you that right now.

Perhaps you should consult with a more aggressive law firm and get an alternate strategy to conduct your D. Maybe they know how to play to her desires and offer a settlement that make her most happiest without you and your children in her future. Maybe that offer alone makes her think about all that she is about to lose.

It wont take much of a lawyer to prevent her from taking the children out of the country regardless of custody. If she really wants to be with the OM she is going to want to go to NZ and you can prevent that or allow it if she wants to give up custody. Her having this OM in another country is actually to your advantage here. If she wants to go and the kids stop her from doing that she will probably give them up especially if she feels the way about them that she posted on FB.

She is furious with me but only showing it passively. I have turned the other cheek after a couple cruel texts and Facebook posts today.

So the abuser is furious with her victim. Hmmm... I hope you are able to really step back and look at who she really is now. If she was at one time a good person, she has ditched that person and has embraced the dark side. I can see by your posts that you are starting to see this, keep working on opening your eyes in every area.

I agree with the posters that said that you should go after some kind of mental illness situation with her and I also agree that your lawyer sounds pretty passive! You need a better lawyer.

If you have not already done so, buy a voice activated recorder. Keep it with you at all times. If there is a chance that she will file a false domestic claim or restraining order against you, the VAR could be your saving grace.

How are you doing, Anon?

yeah he kind of slipped off of here.

Sorry all,

I got lost in my own thoughts for the past couple days. Also I've transitioned to working nights. Thanks to those who sent the PMs. I will certainly check into that. I have been advised by colleagues to beware of attorneys who promise too much.

So, first off I'd like to address some of my own thoughts. It would be impossible to explain it all here, but I decided that the statement "I traveled to New Zealand because I was suicidal" is probably true. Is this an excuse for infidelity? Absolutely not. In general, when the one we love has been repeatedly lying to us, we have to make some judgment calls as to what is probably true and probably not true. I thought about all of her behaviors and actions over the past year, and statements like "I'll never be happy" and giving up all the things she liked to do previously would align with depression and suicidal ideation. It might explain how she seems remorseless and flat when I speak to her about the A (yes, the alternative is that she is out to get me, I am aware) and it is somewhat treatable. It will play into my eventual decision to R or D, and I would need to get into a deeper discussion with her at some point no matter what. I am still mentally and legally preparing for D.

I think she is being passive aggressive because she wants to make me angry. If I become angry it would justify her continuing the A. I also think she is angry because she hates herself and transfers it to the kids and me. I'll say it again, the psychology here is fascinating. She simultaneously wants and does not want the kids. I'm really not completely sure if she has multiple personalities or is just messing around.

So here's my real concern of the night/morning. When she left for NZ, she admitted to prior travels and to an EA (I know there has been a PA as well *baby-steps*). She agreed to cutting off the A and returning early without going to Auckland. I need to ask her whether she has rescheduled her trip and find the most direct (but not overly needy) way to ask. Any suggestions?

-Anon

Quit making excuses and trying to justify her behavior so you don't have to make a decision.

There are none.

She's a grown woman who knows exactly what she's doing. You don't plan and execute an affair like this without being able to make conscious decisions.

the affair is all on her. How you handle it is on you.

Keeping yourself in denial at this time just keeps you in infidelity limbo.

Right now you are the one keeping yourself where she's put you.

Anon: You write

"I traveled to New Zealand because I was suicidal"

and then you reflect:

"When she left for NZ, she admitted to prior travels and to an EA (I know there has been a PA as well *baby-steps*). She agreed to cutting off the A and returning early without going to Auckland"

She had traveled to NZ before - what was her justification for those? That she has every year her annual of "feeling suicidal"? This looks like the traditional case of the cheater victimizing herself. Please do not let this distract you from the real problem. And I am sure that you will not fall for this type of justification for her cheating. The emotional component of the current flow of events is strong in your mind and I understand that you are trying to process everything with the best optimized outcome you can get. Just operate with the facts and the fact is she strayed. We as BSs remain raw and naive for quite a bit when the WS victimizes him/herself to cover his/her past actions but those BS who stay in the course get to come out healthy and wise, with or without the WS.

Have you read the messages yet? What did they say? Have you talked to her lately? What is she saying?

I would ask her what new day/time you should pick her up at the airport.

I’m also wondering why you don’t call the friend she’s staying with and chat with her about what is going on. You said she’s your friend too. Why not Text the friend and ask her if you can talk briefly about logistics. You can even tell her youre worried about your W and you just want to touch base with her about your W.

Anon, you're going to get 2x4s here because you're making mistakes in your thinking. Unless you can provide evidence of a serious, clinical diagnosis of a severe mental disorder, then you're just telling a version of the *exact* same story that's told over and over and over on SI every single day.

I decided that the statement "I traveled to New Zealand because I was suicidal" is probably true.

Ahh yes, the classic side-effect of suicidal thoughts: "traveling to New Zealand."

statements like "I'll never be happy" and giving up all the things she liked to do previously would align with depression and suicidal ideation. It might explain how she seems remorseless and flat when I speak to her about the A (yes, the alternative is that she is out to get me, I am aware) and it is somewhat treatable.

This sounds eerily like you think your infidelity problem can be solved by "treating" symptoms in your wife. You're setting yourself up for a pretty horrible future if you go down that route. You'll find yourself back here in 6 months time wondering why your wife still has a boyfriend.

All cheating spouses who are actively engaged in an affair seem (are) "remorseless." She loves her boyfriend, the things he says to and does for her, the amazing sex they have. She hates you. Of course she's remorseless -- to her, you're everything her boyfriend isn't, and you just keep fucking up her relationship with him.

I think she is being passive aggressive because she wants to make me angry.

She doesn't "want to make you angry." She isn't thinking about you at all, except how much she's thinks you suck. She's acting a certain way because she's having an affair and this is how people having affairs act.

She agreed to cutting off the A and returning early without going to Auckland.

You are already pretty certain she's met up with this guy, right? Have you discovered any other info about what's going on over there?

You're making excuses for your cheating wife and it looks like you're willing to do some major rug-sweeping as a result of those excuses. This will hurt you *and* your R or D process moving forward.

If you can't get yourself to a place where you can say "No matter the reasons, it is unacceptable for my wife to have a boyfriend and I need to move away from this situation," then you're just rug-sweeping and allowing the affair to continue.

When is she due back from NZ? Your story has been unique in that most of it has taken place with your wife hanging in another country with her special guy. It will be very helpful, I think, to continue to get advice when she's back in the states.

[This message edited by Okokok at 5:59 AM, March 8th (Thursday)]