SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Sheesh...in the middle of making my points and fighting what I thought was the "good fight", some of your responses have just hit me smack in the face (hopefulmother, devotedman) - with a big ol' fucking mirror. While I'm advocating for empathy...you guys are actually being empathy.

Whoa.

Gotta go sit with this one for a while.

Thank you.

I ask you again, skins21, where are you getting your data to bolster your assumptions?

The basis of starting out with calculating a "successful" marriage comes from the book "The Science of Happily Ever After: What Really Matters in the Quest for Enduring Love" by Ty Tashiro.

He starts with common assumption that 50% of all marriages end in divorce. From years of studies and statistical analysis he was able to determine that only 30% of the 50% of marriages that do last are deemed as "happy". That's only really 15% of all marriages that are truly healthy and happy.

I don't have hard data on how many reconciled marriages after an affair can be deemed "happy". All I have is anecdotal evidence from all of the stories I've read on here and on other infidelity sites. Using other statistics from infidelity facts sites says that only about 30% of marriages last after an affair has been discovered.

Even if we don't factor in any other variables such as kids, finances, education, the type of affair, affair details ect. you are already looking at a probability of just over 1% of any marriage surviving, lasting and thriving as a "happy" marriage after any affair.

[This message edited by skins21 at 11:33 AM, March 21st (Wednesday)]

Truthsetmefree:

Thank you. It took several years to get here. It was worth it. For the record SisterMilkshake was a huge part of it. She got me through a difficult time in my own guilt and shame for the way I responded to my husband's OW in letters that I sent. She led me to self forgiveness and grace. In turn that helped me to see my husband and the OW as humans and not just selfish monsters. She helped me to become empathetic based on my choices to "kick a dog while it was already obviously down (OW) while I was in pain" with how they (WH and OW)treated me. It opened the path to Grace.

[This message edited by hopefulmother at 11:33 AM, March 21st (Wednesday)]

For anyone who has successfully reconciled and now has a happy marriage that has been long removed from infidelity I am happy for you all. You have the most precious gift, a second chance at happiness with your one and only. I hope you truly realize how lucky and rare that is.

If only there was a way you could tell if all the effort would be worth R for everyone else who wasn't so lucky.

skins21, exactly!

I also agree with your last sentence wholeheartedly. For me I'm not sure that I'll ever put myself at the legal risk inherent in a M again.

someone on here said it best. i think we all tend to assume there is that one and only for us. I just never believed that.

Maybe that is the reason why i was a crappy bf to my previous gf's including this one.

I was disgusted and humiliated when my WW cheated, but she didn't fall off a pedestal because she never made it there. I've never dated a woman that has. Maybe its an inherent character flaw in me, but that makes R easier. To believe that no one is perfect.

Of course R was never easy, and isn't easy.

Even with the idea that no one is perfect, you don't expect to be hit with a tire iron from the back by the person you trusted.

I respect your opinion and agree that for a large majority of people trying to R is a waste of time. I think we need to make sure our WS is worth it and will they put in the work? If they are serial cheaters, definitely don't waste your time trying to R. If there are any other abuse issues-eg. WS has abused BS mentally, physically or sexually dninitely do not reconcile!! If they habitually lie about other issues not worth it. Very difficult to trust again. If WS is not a good parent definitely don't reconcile. I would say if you don't have kids, don't reconcile.

For those with a remorseful, transparent WS who is willing to do all the work necessary to R and earn the trust back it is a long arduous road with many ups and downs. So if someone decides to go this rout they better be sure because it's not going to be easy!

I don’t have compassion for generalizations that can hurt others in comparable situations that might be battling with the choice of reconciling or not.

I don't see how this particular piece of advice would be any better or worse than a lot of other stuff you see. I read some of the stories here and am horrified with what people are going through... sometimes even more horrified with what they will put up with or subject themselves to in the name of reconciliation. Some of them could use a strong dose of what skins is peddling here.

OF COURSE every situation is different, that assertion seems utterly banal to me. I'd take the skins post any day over that.

I can't say what's right or wrong for anyone here. I've done a lot of reading recently, and I feel that I need to say something here. No one on this site or even in real life can tell you what's right or wrong with the decisions that you make in your relationship. You have to live with those decision at the end of the day.

I know for me, the lies, betrayal and serial cheating is what made my decision to divorce easier. I do know people that have reconciled and have remained happily married decades later. There are striking differences between what they experienced and what I experienced. I think it's certainly helpful if the WS willingly confesses and cuts contact with the AP. It's harder for a BS to get past the betrayal when they have read messages, saw pictures and checked phone records to figure out what was happening. I am still haunted by the naked pictures of my STBXH's AP that were on his phone (that I found while he was insisting they were just friends).

I hope that everyone here recognizes that we may have all gone through the same betrayal, what happened on dday and after can be very different. You may have a spouse that is remorseful. You may have a spouse that regrets getting caught. You may have a spouse that doesn't care and left with the AP. It took me a while to figure out the difference between remorse and regret. Sometimes it's hard to figure out if your spouse is feeling guilt or anger that you took away their toy. Sometimes the two look very similar.

What I think everyone of us needs to ask ourselves is what are we willing to tolerate? If we try for R, are we willing to get hurt again? If we D, are we willing to give up the dream/life we thought we would live? If we decide to R, will the pain and my checking everything ever stop? If we D, will I die alone? These are questions that only those involved can answer.

Skins21 - I can hear your pain. I'm sorry that you feel you've wasted more time on R. I kick myself for not walking out the door as soon as I found out. I think all of us BSs want to believe that it's a nightmare that we'll wake up from. We also want to believe that our spouse is who we thought they were, not what the evidence is showing us. But I am very sorry that you're hurting.

deephurt

Will I be bitter towards him? Yep, I can say that I will be.

Why would you be bitter ?

I hope you truly realize how lucky and rare that is.

You have no idea skins. I am grateful every freaking day of my life. Without the support of the members here, I would have been just another one of your theories. I stay here so I can pay it forward and hopefully we can create more unicorns.

I agree that it’s a huge risk and there really is no way of knowing for sure unless you put that time in. At some point, to become successful at reconciling, the BS will need to take a leap of faith. I can only admire those that are able to do it. I know it’s not an easy task.

I really appreciate all of the support I've received in this thread and I have listened to the dissenting view point.

I guess what bothers some people the most was my over use of some generalized ideas or assumptions. As everyone knows getting exact statistics on infidelity is nearly impossible because well...cheaters lie!

I'm all about statistics as I do financial analysis for a living. I did provide a post with some after the fact but not one person commented on that one. It's really difficult to offer my view point on what I've learned without making any generalizations. Even if I did use all statistics I would be skewered because of the source, the date, the data used or a million other reasons.

The facts are very few people do actually change. How many criminals are repeat offenders? From some things I've read 68% re-offend within 3 years and 77% after 5 years.

Would you want to R with someone who has a 77% chance of cheating on you within the next 5 years? Or how about this statistic - the likely-hood of a cheater committing a second offense 350% higher than someone who's never cheated. Ouch!!!

trust- I don't think there has been a lack of empathy. I can read empathy for skins situation in every post. You don't have to agree with the generalizations made to feel empathy for a posters situation.

I also don't think anyone has been called out. Skins began a thread and everyone responded to it. Its a conversation IMHO. BTW-if anyone was calling anyone out, it may have been you calling me out when you said you weren't trying to call me out many pages ago.... Just saying.

Its obvious that he is hurting.

Skins- I hope you aren't basing the success of R on that one book. Statistics are based on a small percentage of the population. There is no way to know what the success rate of R is. None. You would have to interview every adult on this planet to know the truth. Me, personally, I have never been approached. I have heard the statistic to be above 70% of couples R after infidelity. Are they happy? Who knows

You need to base your decision on how you are feeling about your personal situation, what you feel you can live or not live with and if you WS is remorseful. No one elses situation should have any bearing on yours.

Why would you be bitter ?

Shiloe- if he became a repeat offender, I would be bitter is what I am referring to. If he does it again, I will be bitter towards him for being a horrible person who purposefully caused me pain, again.

I don't anticipate it happening but I am not stupid enough to think he can't become that horrible person again.

For anyone who has successfully reconciled and now has a happy marriage that has been long removed from infidelity I am happy for you all. You have the most precious gift, a second chance at happiness with your one and only. I hope you truly realize how lucky and rare that is.

If only there was a way you could tell if all the effort would be worth R for everyone else who wasn't so lucky.

I am not long removed from infidelity. I do feel ike I have a happy M. I still have some mind movies-but they are few and far between now. They used to be all day, every day. I had hypnosis on several occasions to try to help them. I considered suicide as my only option two make them stop for a long time but could not bring myself to hurt our son like that.

I don't consider it a gift to be R'ing with a cheater. I gave him the gift of R. Its become a piece of our history now. One that still gets to me at times. At one time, I thought infidelity would be a deal breaker. I thought I would stop loving him. I have always found infidelity reprehensible. Yet, it didn't kill the love I have for him. I don't know why. We have been together for a very long time and as I still love him and he has been doing everything to try to show me that is safe now, I decided to take my chances on R. If he is truly changed, why should someone else get the better him when I still love him and he still loves me?

But, there is no guarantee in life. This R may not work. Others may not work while others will. Just like there is no guarantee that your next partner won't do the exact same thing. There are many on here who have been cheated on by more than one partner. There is no guarantee in life.

The only thing we can do is decide what we want to do for ourselves and follow that path. It may be successful and it may not.

I wish you all peace. Skins-I hope you feel some clam and peace soon.

[This message edited by deephurt at 4:47 PM, March 21st (Wednesday)]

Just read your last post. Please try to ignore statistics, they mean very little.

I had a 6 month affair (2 months physical) before I was caught. I had been married for almost 30 years. I'm glad my wife gave me another chance. I won't cheat again.

I'm glad my wife gave me another chance. I won't cheat again.

How certain were you if that before you cheated? Would you have said the same thing then?

I think some of us are just done with the human race. It's like some kind of cruel joke and seeing it as such is very liberating.

Please try to ignore statistics, they mean very little.

Agree. You never know if you are part of the majority or minority till you try. I prefer taking the chance and having faith and hope. At least I know I tried and have no regrets.

[This message edited by hopefulmother at 7:00 AM, March 22nd (Thursday)]

If only there was a way you could tell if all the effort would be worth R for everyone else who wasn't so lucky.

That's an impossible ask. There are no absolutes in life, nor is there a way to predict the future with 100% certainty, which is what you are asking for.

Right now, you are search for absolutes, and have equated D and tossing the WS aside as an absolute path to avoiding pain. It may work for you, but not for everyone.

(and I would say that D brings it's own form of pain)

I understand the problem with overgeneralizations, but even in the Healing Library and other "Pointer" posts, there are "suggestions" about what to do with an unremorseful spouse. Suggesting "doing the 180", etc. These are "general" suggestions.

I feel R is possible with a remorseful spouse and a BS who is willing to give the gift of trying to R and both spouses are trying to create a new marriage.

Reconciliation, by definition, cannot be made with an unremorseful spouse or the spouses not working together. A marriage is made of two people.

On the other hand, if the WS is not remorseful, and is not working fully toward R and is still cheating, reconciliation is not occurring.

Are my above statements generalizations? I don't believe they are.

Staying married is not necessarily R.

Giving advice to a BS to leave a WS who is still cheating, gaslighting, lying, etc. is often done here on SI.

We need to have compassion for ALL members of SI. Not every situation is the same, we are all unique. A lot of us can relate to each other's experiences as we try to "Survive Infidelity" and try to help one another.