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During my wife's 16-month affair she became someone I didn't even know, she did things I never thought she she was even capable of, she doesn't even get a speeding ticket. she's a rules person. 45 days into our recovery he sent her an email from a hidden email address that at first she didn't recognize after about 30 days she figured out who it was. about 90 days into our recovery she messaged him back and that started a two-weeks of emailing and her buying a burner phone and three phone calls before I caught her. She said she never wanted to meet up with him again but needed closure she also said she didn't want to be with him. I'm so confused. She witnessed my extreme pain that even sent me to the hospital but yet still betrayed me once again 90 days in. If I could just wrap my head around and understand a little bit of what happens to a wayward spouses brain and thought process I feel like I could continue to move forward. can someone help?

Hi Humbled, sorry you're having to deal with this.

The A fog was very real for my WW. She didn't come out of it until it became clear through MY actions (IE the 180) that there would be consequences that she'd have to live with if she continued following the wayward path. She chose R.

I am wondering (and I apologize if I missed your explanation in another post) if your WW's being held accountable by you? Are you willing to "lose the marriage in order to save it?"

The burner phone was the final straw final chance for me. she knows I'm done if anything happens again she actually thought it was over when she got caught and was so confused because she let him talk her into all of these things, how to set up a fake email, how to go get a burner phone, even though she had no intentions of being with him or seeing him again. I saw the emails to confirm this. they appear to be in such a confused state. Things have been going really well since then, it completely changed the path she's a completely different person we are just about at 6 months and she is deep into the remorse and guilt stage and a much clearer head. I guess I just feel like I get stuck trying to figure out and understand what happens to the thought process?

I was in the same situation sort of, my WH kept in touch only at work, no burner phone and no more physical contact (or so they both said) as “just friends” as my WH felt that he couldn’t let go of her from his life initially and then she started becoming threatening to tell me everything (there was TT about the actual A and the fact that they kept in contact). He says that once she became threatening he couldn’t see a way out, the lies became too much and he was trying to damage control as if he would have told her NC she would have spilled the beans. The threatening behaviour is real as she was calling me anonymously and hanging up and other such behaviours (threats to show up at our door).

I can hand on heart say for my WH it was a real fog. During those months (forget the actual A) he kept telling me how I am everything and didn’t want to lose me, but he was a total jerk. One day supportive, texting continuously and reassuring me, the next day telling me I need to show him a glimpse that we’re moving past it otherwise he can’t go on like this.

I had no clue (well I did but I had no proof so I would constantly ask if they are in contact) and his emotional state was horrendous. One day happy the next depressed, one day optimistic and all in, the next completely out. Distant, detached, his words didn’t match his actions, he’d have days when he’d break down in tears to save our marriage but nothing of complexity was done.

Anyway since DDay 2 he’s a completely different man, unfortunately so much damage was done that I find it hard to believe a word he says. On DDay 1 I thought “he did a massive fuck up but this is us we’re talking about, the couple with an amazing connection, we’ll make it somehow”. On DDay 2 I realised how little I mattered if he could see me losing 15 kg in 3 weeks, fainting, shaking, being signed off work for weeks on end, crying in a foetal position on the bathroom floor, being suicidal, not able to sleep, and he could still gaslight me and maintain contact.

He says he didn’t realise the impact keeping in contact as friends had on our recovery, he couldn’t see the emotional state he was in and the turmoil that was generating because he had to support her during the day at work and her breakdown followed by my breakdown at home, by the time he was home he was already out of energy to put any effort in our recovery.

I am watching. I don’t know how our story will end. I am still way too involved emotionally compared to how I would like. But I now know I would be fine on my own as DDay 2 brought a reality I didn’t expect: the reality of a man I never knew.

Luna. My story exactly.

Affair Fog is real. My H acted the same exact way.

But we are 5 years from DDay2. It is good for us b/c he has proven himself as being committed to the M and making amends every day.

The D word was never used in 25 years except during his A. How sad.

Not everyone agrees with my sentiments, but “affair fog” is bullshit. It makes it seem like they came down with some illness or affliction that was beyond their control. Some will talk about it like an addiction and an addict getting their fix. None of that is right—imho—and sounds like mental gymnastics for the betrayed.

There’s not much to wrap your mind around, she has shown you clear as day what she is right now...selfish, uncaring, entitled. She’s showing you who she really is to continue this destructive behavior.

Don’t try to understand it, a normal person will never understand a fucked up persons mind. Also, don’t let her off the hook by trying to rationalize some made up mental affliction like a “fog”. What you need to do is figure out what you’re willing to accept. Demonstrate that you won’t accept her behavior and continued disrespect. She wants to have OM so bad, at YOUR EXPENSE, let her go. Let. Her. Go. You deserve better than cruelty, and that’s all she gave by her actions. It’s as simple as that.

I had a counselor tell me about a study they did where they look at someone's brain on a catscan and found that when they are "in love" the brain chemistry is equivalent to being on crack cocaine. It is like an addiction. What you have described here suggests that your WW needs some professional help for her addiction. I would recommend IC for her and possibly MC for both of you.

WW here.

Having experienced this myself - not the break in contact - but the withdrawal period...

I think it's very much like having an addiction. You spend all day every day in the affair getting your next "hit", your next validation, etc.

It's a habit that has to be undone, and can't be returned to in any form. I saw something over the weekend where someone was asking can their WS still be friends with the AP? The answer to that is no. Just like when someone is an alcoholic, they can't drink again. One drink and they are back on a slippery slope, before they know it it's a drink a day, two drinks, etc.

The reason I really believe is it's an addiction:

1. The attachment is not healthy, it's obsessive.

2. The attachment is not to the other person, but the feelings they obtain from them. At some point when I was getting to the outer edge of it, I took a real look at the person that I was feeling this towards. It made no sense. Often, we see BS's say the same thing...it's someone their spouse never would have chosen, never would have worked out with.

3. I don't think the "fog" is an excuse, we made the decisions just like someone who picks up the alcohol or the drug and they keep choosing to use it to feel better. The choice is clearly a decision for a period of time, then it's an addiction, then the habit has to be removed.

4. There is a lot of denial of "it being a problem". Justifications, distorted thinking, lies, etc. You don't have to do that with something that is good for you.

5. Once the NC is in place for a period of time, the person often feels like "what was I thinking? How could I do this?"

I do believe it is very much like an addiction.

I don't like the "fog" as a complete concept. It's often shorthand of really what is a withdrawal period where the person is breaking the habit, doing away with the justifications, and working themselves out of the distorted thinking. And, I do think some use it as an excuse. It's not an excuse, it's a by-product of all the self-brainwashing and dependence that you had on that other person to feel a certain way.

I share this not to justify a thing, or excuse any of the decisions that went into having an affair. It's because often it seems mysterious because they are now married to someone who does all these things and it's baffling. People do become other people during the affair, it's because any time someone has a serious addiction they are different people and what they are willing to do to fuel the addiction makes no sense.

That being said, I want to clarify that you do not have to put up with it. You need to 180, and the WS needs to see that you are putting your foot down. I honestly think often times the BS that walks the harder line does better in not "babying" their WS through the withdrawal, because all it ends up doing is making them feel like the behavior is understood and they can keep some of wayward thinking.

I also want to say not everyone who has an affair ends up addicted, but I do think that often it's the non-emotional affair that falls there. Unless the person is a sex addict of course.

Oh, and for good measure, I looked up addictive behaviors and this is what it said:

Common Characteristics Among Addictive Behaviors

There are many common characteristics among the various addictive behaviors:

1. The person becomes obsessed (constantly thinks of) the object, activity, or substance.

2. They will seek it out, or engage in the behaivor even though it is causing harm (physical problems, poor work or study performance, problems with friends, family, fellow workers).

3. The person will compulsively engage in the activity, that is, do the activity over and over even if he/she does not want to and find it difficult to stop.

4. Upon cessation of the activity, withdrawal symptoms often occur. These can include irritability, craving, restlessness or depression.

5. The person does not appear to have control as to when, how long, or how much he or she will continue the behavior (loss of control). (They drink 6 beers when they only wanted one, buy 8 pairs of shoes when they only needed a belt, ate the whole box of cookies, etc).

6. He/she often denies problems resulting from his/her engagement in the behavior, even though others can see the negative effects.

7. Person hides the behavior after family or close friends have mentioned their concern. (hides food under beds, alcohol bottles in closets, doesn't show spouse credit card bills, etc).

8. Many individuals with addictive behaviors report a blackout for the time they were engaging in the behavior (don't remember how much or what they bought, how much the lost gambeling, how many miles they ran on a sore foot, what they did at the party when drinking)

9.Depression is common in individuals with addictive behaviors. That is why it is important to make an appointment with a physician to find out what is going on.

10. Individuals with addictive behaviors often have low self esteem, feel anxious if the do not have control over their environment, and come from psychologically or physically abusive families.

I had problems with the fog as well. Especially in the beginning. I didn't think it existed and thought it was a lot of bunk and bad excuses.

Then 2 things happened.

1 - I realized it wasn't the description or definition of the fog. It was the fact that it existed, had to be gone through and the sheer reality that I resented the Hell out of it

2 - 6 months post DDay WH came out of it. And I could tell a big difference.

It makes it seem like they came down with some illness or affliction that was beyond their control.

Well, yeah, that's a good description of my W during her A, and it sounds like it's a good description of Humbled's W, too.

IMO, some WSes get into an altered state of consciousness - a 'fog.' It's just a description, not an excuse. If the fog is being used as an excuse, it's being abused.

IDK, Humbled ... my experience was that my very intelligent, very perceptive W used a downright stupid and blind thought process during her A. She knows what she thought and did, and she knows a lot of the decision points where she fucked up, but she can't say anything other than, in essence, 'They seemed like the best decisions at the time.'

All I get out of what she says is that each decision just kept pushing off dealing with her issues. In fact, she spent her lifetime avoid her issues. She just happened to come to a point at which avoiding her issues meant going into an A.

Your words make me think your W is like mine - your W, like mine, got into her A because she was avoiding some deep-seated issues that terrify her. IOW, her fear of those issues overrode the love she felt for you, and that 'explains' her relapse.

If she's willing to address her issues, she's a good candidate for R, all other things being equal. If she continues to hide from her issues, she's a bad candidate for R.

But remember you know your W and your sitch better than I do, since all I know about your W and sitch is what you've written. I could be very wrong about your W.

In any case, the key question to me remains unanswered - how did she switch from clear thinking to poor thinking?

Hikingout, thank you for your description. It provided some clarity.

We are four months past DDay, and I see some of this still going on with my WH.

TheBish's feelings on this are consistent with not allowing the WS to use excuses for their behavior, however, an excuse and an explanation are not necessarily the same thing.

My experience with this is remarkably similar to Luna's (though lagging by a couple months). I've not used the term fog when discussing it with WW (perhaps for the same reason theBish doesn't like it), I've just said she acted like a selfish a hole. However, it was patently obvious that she went through something of the type so many of us describe as the fog.

Like Luna, I sometimes think that WW's fog-like behavior in the months immediately after dday might have been more harmful than the actual A.*

* the affair did "end" on dday, but there were at least 5 occasions on which NC was broken, even if only a brief talk that was ostensibly work-related... at first anyways.

I wonder if there is an end to reconciliation. I don't think so. It is an ongoing process forever. Your life is forever changed/altered trust is different and the way you look at the world has changed. I do believe you can successfully live again with your mate and still love them. Your marriage will be different hopefully better but different. You will not believe or trust blindly ever again. I think your guard will always be partially up.

I just wanted to point out that, just like Lazarus (I’d like to say “good to see other people experience the same thing and have an understanding of what I’ve been through” but that just sounds wrong) I don’t use the fog like an excuse. I do not for any minute believe my WH was somehow taken down with an illness or anything like that. It is an explanation of his behaviour more likely, a name for a situation that in my head cannot be explained and attributed to the man I married and knew for so many years.

Of course he had it in him and something inside him made him search for some fantasy need at the cost of my happiness, safety and peace. And that’s not easily forgotten if ever.

[This message edited by Luna10 at 1:40 PM, April 23rd (Monday)]

Thank you. Hikingout great explanations. Sisoon yes I think our stories are similar. Luckily during the relapse he exposed the real him. Completely killed the the fog in an instant, he said something derogatory about our kids, and poof it was gone. She is a completely different person. 1000% committed. She was hiding from many issues, childhood mental and sexual abuse. She is doing everything she can emdr, i/c counseling etc.

Humbled123,

Your story sounds all too familiar. My WW confessed the A and swore NC as soon a she confessed only for me to catch her having texted him several times over the next month or so. Fortunately, he was on the other side of the country so a secret meeting was not an option. The OM was the son of a friend of my father in law and I had met his father previously. So, I picked up the phone and called him and told him what his son had done. At first he was in disbelief which then turned to him being ashamed and then very upset with his son. He then called his son and verbally blasted him which made the OM mad. Within minutes of my initial phone call, the OM angrily texted my WW and showed his true colors. Exposure is a deadly weapon in your arsenal and should be used to every advantage.

The moment he texted her his angry rant, the affair fog lifted and his allusion disappeared. I never thought my wife would be capable of doing some of the things she did either both before and after D-day. This happened five years ago this coming weekend and, thankfully, things are going great now. That was an awful chapter. I hope your ww will realize that she made the mistake of her life and that if you decide to give R a chance she will be back to her old pre-A self. Good luck!

The fog is bullshit. It’s simply the cheater trying to save face and not face reality. The lies they’ve told themselves and their BS do not hold up under the light of exposure. The manipulations and gaslighting no longer work either. Cheaters have a hard time facing the devastation that’s just happened and keep some sense of self worth.

And, in my experience, the fog completely disappears when the cheater is faced with true consequences (D, exposure to family and friends, etc.). It’s hard to pine, or go through some fucking absurd withdrawal, for your AP when you’re called a whore, forced to tell your parents and in laws what you’ve done, your wedding ring is ripped off your finger, your thrown out of your home, and your entire life is suddenly in question.

The “Fog” seems to magically disappear once divorce papers are served, up front, out of the blue.

Just ask Spaceghost and LtCmdr.