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Joel1111,

You asked about the resumption of sex with your WW. There are 3 issues to consider:

Sexual transmitted diseases. You need to get results back showing she is negative. Some of the viruses take time.

In many states the resumption of sex nullifies the grounds of adultery if you choose to divorce.

Potential emotional issues: If the STD issue is addressed, and legal issues are not of consequence, and the emotional issues can be dealt with, then go for it. As you state you are better off having sex with your wife than adding another level of madness by becoming what we term a Madhatter on SI. Some couples undergo "hysterical bonding" after discovery of the affair. Do what is comfortable for you and does not cause you emotional harm.

Joel1111,

You asked about the resumption of sex with your WW. There are 3 issues to consider:

Sexual transmitted diseases. You need to get results back showing she is negative. Some of the viruses take time.

In many states the resumption of sex nullifies the grounds of adultery if you choose to divorce.

Potential emotional issues: If the STD issue is addressed, and legal issues are not of consequence, and the emotional issues can be dealt with, then go for it. As you state you are better off having sex with your wife than adding another level of madness by becoming what we term a Madhatter on SI. Some couples undergo "hysterical bonding" after discovery of the affair. Do what is comfortable for you and does not cause you emotional harm.

More great feedback to wake up to. Today will be a big day. She gets STD testing this afternoon but its bigger cause of the questions I'm going to sit down with her on. The purpose of the questions is not really to get the nasty details, I know that is going to hurt me more in the short term. So remember, yesterday was "You have the entire truth". The real purpose is for me confirm what I heard from her (ie sex only 2 times) with yes/no questions. I'm going to preface it with, "you can change your answer now if you'd like from yesterday." But your final answer will be evaluated on the poly, if you fail, this is over and I have another piece to my puzzle to help me move on and I have to assume the trickle will continue forever so I don't want more. I'm expecting some "I don't remember" to which I will remind her that if she truly does remember, but is not sharing, that will also fail the poly.

She knows that I see her search history, so searching how to beat a poly will also be a violation. I will remind her that the examiner will ask her that question.

I will check out Dr Phone, I used Tenorware (??) which I think is similar. The challenge is that when this started in early April they immediately switched to Instagram messenger, then deleted immediately after sending. Everything I read is that there isn't a way to recover deleted instagram messages. This is the real evil part, she used regular Iphone text messaging in our group of 4 (us and them) to arrange our get togethers every week etc. Then when we were all together, and any other time since April, she never texted him using regular text, just instagram.

More to come and thanks for the great advice everyone!

you are doing great. Two ideas you might want to consider. One is an apology letter to the OBS. There is nothing that WW can say that would be enough, that would make what she did ok in your eyes or the eyes of the OBS but... I'd want to see if she really understood how two faced, backstabbing, she and OM really were to OBS and you. The amount of lies, trickery, deception to do this to her husband and her best friend. To play the part of bestfriend and wonderful wife, good mother... while texting and planning their next gathering...The fact that she was capable of that ... might bother me more than the sex. I'm not saying you should mail the letter. I'd just want to see if she understands how truly evil her acting was.

Your main plan is to get at the whole truth. Joseph's Letter - http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/healing_library/confrontation/joseph.asp might help you get that information. Its basically a letter saying...I am willing to forgive you but need to know what exactly you are asking me to forgive. Many people have cut and pasted it into word and changed the wording to better suit their situation.

[This message edited by Freeme at 6:24 AM, May 31st (Thursday)]

One more question. I work as a marketing exec for a large global corp. 20yrs with the company and I've always operated at the highest levels in every role. Like most, my job requires high mental engagement and function. I travel 1 week a month, work from home or corp office the rest. I'm expecting a big dip in performance over the next many many months just based on my focus, concentration and all the other distractions that come w/this. Do you discretely tell your work? HR? Boss? I don't feel like any short term time off is needed, in fact, the few meetings that I had this week helped get my mind off it, however, I feel my mental disengagement with work will eventually be noticed. I'm guessing this is a personal decision based on everyone's unique situation just wondering if there are an major Do's or Dont's?

Hi, Joel, bc I insisted my wayward husband cancel his travel plans (he traveled every other week), he told his boss there were some issues at home that needed addressing.

My point is you don't need to go into detail, but if your performance slows, it is a good idea to let them know that it's only temporary due to some family issues or any other excuse you can come up with that will seem valid.

My WH boss was extremely understanding as WH had worked for the company for 25 years, and his job performance at every level was nothing less than superb.

Joel111

Once again: Can you clarify the sex issue? When you say 2 times is that 2 hand-jobs or don’t you count them in on the sex list.

My suggestion of a freeform approach is based on a technique used when investigating a crime, you know has been committed but don’t have too much info on… Like if you ask her “did you have sex 2 times” she can truthfully say “yes” even if it was 10 times. After all – sex #2 came right after #1 and before #3. A freeform approach also allows you to judge her present commitment to really giving you the truth. A freeform approach often leads to more direct, detailed and listed questions.

Keep in mind that it’s an extremely rare case where you have the whole truth in one sitting. Minute details are forgotten or omitted. New info creates new questions. Some truths are based on perception and perception changes. Some things might seem minor to her but might be major for you.

This isn’t a one-time questioning. Take your time. Don’t expect this one session to leave you with the final picture.

That brings the main issue I want to address:

TIME

You have time. Use it.

What you are dealing with is a marathon. Irrespective of your eventual decision of if you want to R or D then what you are dealing with will dominate your life for the next… 12 to 24 months. So, pace yourself. There really aren’t any shortcuts, but there are countless side-roads and diversions that can delay your progress.

Since this started have you take time to go for a walk? Or play with your kids? The gym? Focus on work? Taken a sauna? Had a massage? Seen a movie? Talked to a friend? Been to church? Don’t worry – you can leave your problems for a few hours. They will be there when you get back, only you might have a new perspective or be in a better condition to deal with them.

Joel - I told my HR that I was having personal issues at home so that I could take time off for IC etc. They were very understanding but it all depends on the company.

Joel,

I advocate for telling your manager. The extent of your disclosure is up to you. It can range from "going through a rough patch at home" to "rough patch in M" to "My W cheated on me".

You gotten ample feedback about your comment that your W's adultery was a lapse of judgement. She had done remarkably cruel things to you and the OBS. Both of you need to come to an understanding that each and every thing she did was intentional. Her adultery involved hundreds, and perhaps thousands, of individual discrete decisions. Corralling all of those under an umbrella of a lapse of judgement is rug sweeping IMO.

Joel, you know your work environment best. Would it be better to tell them in advance that you are having some personal issues at home, and if they see problems with your performance, you would like to know so that you can work on it? Or wait until they tell you there is a problem and you bring it up later?

In my experience, it is better to be ahead of it. Let them know you are committed to your job and you are going to take care of your responsibilities, you just may need to use a personal day on occasion or something like that. Any company worth working for will be understanding.

Hi Joel,

Most big corporations have policies about everything, because it makes them 'safe' legally. Does your organisation have any kind of 'well-being' section on its website, and are there any support resources for employees that you could look at online, or enquire about, before you say anything, if you have any anxiety about how asking for help/consideration might be perceived?

There have been plenty of threads in these forums where people have actually been able to get free counselling sessions from an in-house counsellor, and found their bosses to be very accommodating/understanding. If those things are available, and you feel they would help you, then please do make use of them. They are there for that reason. However, if the atmosphere in your organisation is that of a shark tank, with others looking to undermine you, then I would advise only telling your direct manager, and not letting your workmates know.

It really does depend on the corporate culture where you work, so I think a bit of preliminary investigation into the support/well-being resources on offer, without showing your hand, would be a good way to start. Also, you should have some idea of what your boss is like as a person, and how approachable/understanding they are.

I know that you are very close to D-Day at the moment, but you really don't know how this is going to pan out. So far, you have been amazingly 'on top' of this, despite the pain and turmoil, so it is possible that the impact of it on your work will be minimal. You may even find, as you mention, that work becomes a welcome distraction, and you might wind up focusing on work and being even more productive because of that. So there is an element of 'see how you go', and regular personal review that comes into play here.

I am sure others will be along to advise as well, and I hope this forum can become a useful, free, and anonymous resource for you that you can open up to without anyone at work, or elsewhere, knowing about. That is the real strength of these places. There are plenty of others here who know corporate life, and I hope they will chip in.

Have a word with your boss, s/he will appreciate the honesty. You’d be surprised how many people have gone through this and can truly sympathise.

Have your kids noticed anything yet? Don’t be fooled, children are very intuitive and can sense when there is something wrong. You should have an age appropriate narrative prepared that reassures them.

Today will be a big day. She gets STD testing this afternoon

Two important aspects:

1. The broadest, most extensive panel has to be ordered. You must know the protocol for follow on testing.

2. You must see the written results.

These are consequences of her adultery. She has broken trust so you must have verifiable evidence.

Joel,

Another question(s) to ask relates to meeting at your house. I would be shocked if they didn't. And it is most likely where they met up... not in a parking lot.

Why.....

Your kids are school age so they are gone during the school day...

You have a demanding job, that while you can work from home you are often will have long days in the office or traveling...

She is teaches fitness classes and has a flexible schedule..

He is a handyman with a flexible schedule...

And most WS, tend to "protect" their BS by telling them it never happened in the marital home or bed....

Most Dirt Bag APs (especiall men) want to take the WS in the marital home/bed as a sort of conquest....

Just some of my Sha-Hitty thoughts

[This message edited by seadoug105 at 10:42 AM, May 31st (Thursday)]

Joel1111,

I concur with most of the advice and suggestions given above, Ramius and Bigger specifically.

I would also strongly consider giving your boss, assuming he not a complete jerk, some indication of the issue you're dealing with. Let them read between the lines if needed, as most will go out of the way to be supportive.

You’d be surprised how many people have gone through this and can truly sympathise.

Yep.

At some point I got to the point where the sex wasn't as damaging as the betrayal, the lying, and the disrespect. It's just mentally exhausting.

One step at a time, bro.

Two things I think you asked about. Both are highly individual so I will respond with my experience to hopefully help you arrive at one.

Sex. It is 100% "normal" to go through what is called Hysterical bonding. Opinions vary on the why, but it can make you feel crazy to be some angry with someone and then want to jump their bones. My take is that it can be a great way to reduce stress and reestablish your connection. If you want to do it go for it.

I also understand wanting sex, but not wanting it to be misconstrued as R or things being better in your M.

You have to have a very frank discussion about it. Feel free to set any boundaries that help you.

I told my W very bluntly, to the point I cringe when I remember this today, that sex was to meet our physical needs. It was not anything beyond causal sex within a relationship. No cuddling afterwards, etc. She felt used, but at the time I did not care. I had needs and it was the least destructive way to meet them.

I caution you here. This did some damage to my W self esteem which any WS will tell you is at an all time low right after dday. She cried and began to avoid sex to the point we had a sexless M for awhile. Avoid that. Being generous is something you will get used to if you decide to R. It doesn't mean that you are "weak." It means that you are stronger than you give yourself credit for.

Talk to her about this and make sure everyone is clear and that you are slowly "trying out" what R would feel like to you. That includes your love life. Make sure you agree on the details and also agree that you can stop in the middle if it gets too intense for either of you. One thing we did was to make our bedroom "neutral ground" for A talk on days we expected to be intimate.

Important. Protect yourself from pregnancy and STDs. ONe clear test is not enough. Now and in 6 months. For both of you. No method is 100% fool proof.

Ask far as work. It can be a distraction, sure. I used business trips as "breaks" from having to see my W. Just make sure to set up a way you can confirm that she is being honest and is not using your absence to stay in contact or see OM. She needs to be transparent. GPS or find my iphone are good tools for this. Along with receipts and pictures to lower your anxiety.

As for work. You know what kind of relationship you have with your boss. You know what kind of culture is present. Some work places can be kind of cut throat. If you have a good relationship with your boss I would talk to them. You can keep the details vague or be brutally honest. Having it out there will keep your reputation intact.

I would caution about who you tell your W's A about too. No way to untell once you tell someone. If you do decide to R it will seriously impact your life. Not everyone is as enlightened as we are here.

just my experience - ppl like to gossip. I never told any higher ups at my job what was going on. I went every single day and found a spot to cry every single day for a just a few minutes. the only thing they called me on was losing too much weight.

had I told it likely would have spread like wildfire. while i don't really care what ppl think about me agreeing to recover, i did care that what we were going through would get back to our kids.

they know the truth, but hearing it from someone else is something that isn't fair to them.

i did my job the best I could.

one of my IC said to spend time thinking about it in the am and then tell myself i already thought about it, i can also think about it after work, but right now i need to do my job.

it's hard. and it only worked some of the time but I'm very very glad i didn't tell.

just my experience.

Joel, Just my contribution to your situation to help navigate through some of the mindfuck your WW brought upon you. The way my XW and her OM got together was similar with your WW and her "best friend". My XW and the OM's wife were "best friends" as well at the beginning. Her "best friend", the other betrayed spouse (OBS) also talked to my XW about her relationship problems. Yes, my XW used that information to close in on the OM to try and be like a "relationship mediator". It was all bullshit. My XW is passive-aggressive and VERY competitive, especially with other women. When the OBS, her "best friend", talked about her marital issues it was like blood in the water and her inner "slut" shark came out to take advantage of it. She used that information against the OBS to wedge herself into their relationship to be that third person and be the relay to their communication so she could get all the nitty gritty details. She also enjoyed how the OM would confide in her instead of his own wife. She prided herself in the false perception of being able to satisfy another woman's man better than that woman. She got a power trip off of that. My XW is the youngest of three from her family, is super competitive with her older sister and hold major resentments with her to this day. Is your WW the competitive type as well?

I also got to read through messages similar to what you read. They got off on pulling one over on us. It's part of the fantasy script. Also, the OM from my situation had previously cheated on the OBS. Basically ran the same script as before, let other people know (particularly women) that he was having marital issues. He was baiting for an affair participant as it is typical cheating behavior. The OM in your situation ran the same script in his previous marriages. You will read about this in the book "Not Just Friends" by Shirley P. Glass. a very enlightening read.

Bottom line, it reads like your WW and her OM played each other. It was all about ego strokes.

You'll get answers from your own WW and from our own stories. Cheater follow very predictable behaviors as you will learn in your time reading on this site.

With your travel and her working as a personal trainer, this could impact her working and her clients.

If she is training other men, do you feel comfortable?

How are you so sure that this is her first affair?

It could be the first time she was caught, but not her first and only affair in your marriage.

and why did she cheat with scum bag?

Today will be a big day. She gets STD testing this afternoon

My understanding is that one set of tests isn't enough in cases such as this one where the sexual activity has been very recent. My doctor said there should be 3 sets of tests. The initial tests, another set 3 months later, and then another set 6 months after that.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 10:45 AM, May 31st (Thursday)]