SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

My Dday was about six months ago. My wife had a six week long sexual affair with her 6'4", 35 year old, muscular, hot personal trainer. I am 47 and in average shape for a 47 year old. I now have every sexual/body insecurity you can imagine. I also have frequent intrusive thoughts about them having sex and a terrible imagination that probably makes the sex better than it actually was.

I have asked for very few details of the affair over the last six months because I am in agony and believe any more information will push me over the edge.

The way I address all the details of the sexual encounters is to imagine the worst case scenario then try to accept it. This is very difficult. This is brutal when I get to the most sensitive questions such as: 1) Was he the best sex of your life 2) Was his penis bigger than mine/did you like his penis better than mine.

I just dont know how to proceed with managing the details in my head. Many people suggest not to ask about the details. I understand their POV. I just cant let all the questions go unanswered but if I get the wrong answers I will freak out and run.

I know this is a common topic.

Are there any specific posts on this site or collection of posts that cover this topic in full ? Does anyone have any advice ?

I'm so sorry you are here.

You ask any and every question that you need to. If your wife is serious about helping you heal, then she'll give you every bit of information you need.

I needed every detail and got it. That was one of the things that my wife had to give me.

Let me add, please stop torturing yourself. I know the mind movies are horrible, but they're even worse if you don't have any information to base them on.

Wool94

I need help deciding exactly which questions I should avoid. For example, if I ask her if the AP was the best sex of her life how can I possibly come back from that.

This may sound totally insane but I need to ask her opinion and experience with AP's penis in every respect. Did she love it, like it, ect. I know this sounds insane but if I dont get her opinion on this topic it will hurt me forever.

This is such a sensitive topic I dont want to ask too much nor do I want to live with my demons.

I honestly have never - in the 17 years I've been reading infidelity boards - EVER seen a cheater who is reconciling admit that the sex was "better." The most they seem to be willing to admit was that it was good or great or hot, etc.

But I've never seen 'better' come out of the mouth of a cheater who planned on reconciling with their spouse.

Now cheaters who were leaving the marriage and not reconciling, well they weren't always nearly as gracious or diplomatic.

Same thing with the question about 'is he bigger?' I'm not even a cheater and I still know better than to EVER admit to a man (if he asks) that my last boyfriend/spouse was bigger. I fudge on that one because I KNOW better.

So you'll likely hear that the sex was sub-standard or boring, or that she didn't like it but did it just to please him, or that he sucked in bed and had no clue how to please a woman, or that he was selfish, etc. etc. etc. And she'll likely tell you that he's not bigger than you.

I'm just being honest, but that's the stuff she's going to tell you if she wants to avoid divorce court.

[This message edited by NoMercy at 2:15 PM, June 17th (Sunday)]

If it's something you need to know, then you need to know.

Like you said, if you don't ask, it's going to haunt you forever.

You need to ask/know what your heart tells you it needs to ask/know. You don't have to figure this out all at once. Take your time. You will find yourself wondering about something. That is the thing you should ask about.

In each case, the balance is that you will always be plagued both by what you know and what you don't know. That is one of the gifts our WW hands us when she has an A: we are plagued by thoughts of the A, either our imagined mind-movies, or the reality-based ones.

Again, take your time. Ask questions as they occur to you. It might take a year or more. At some point, you will reach a place where you know as much as you want to know. For some people, it is every minute detail.

You case is especially tough for a man. Men always feel emasculated when their WW has a PA with another man. But in your case where the man is younger and larger and fitter and stronger, the overwhelming impression is that your WW was driven to him by sexual desire. No matter what, that is going to hurt.

She will try to minimize this whenever she answers your questions. This is normal. You will find it frustrating. Condescending. Patronizing. Even more emasculating. You need to impress on her that 100% truth is necessary.

Also, keep in mind that your goal is to survive this. You should not make R your goal, nor D. Rather, you should find your truth. It may be that your truth ends up being that you can never R with your wife knowing that she betrayed you for purely sexual purposes. Many men would feel the same way.

What I have seen here on SI is that where there is a WW/BH, the success of R hinges, among other things, on the WW showing her BH that he is the only one she desires sexually, and that her desire for the BH is strong and true. This will likely be a real hurdle for your situation.

That insecurity happens to all betrayeds, man or woman. How can it not? Desn't really matter what age, physical appearance, etc., your spouse screwed someone else. I asked questions, hated some of the answers, had mind movies, etc. At least I didn't have to ask about penis size! I think knowing was better than imagining the answers, I came up with some doozies on my own.

As a woman, I can tell you size doesn't matter ;-). For me, personally, the best sex is from someone you care for and who cares about you. Yes, good technique is important but love is too.

IF your WW is truly remorseful and has worked on her issues and what led her to cheat, she will come to realize it really wasn't all that great and certainly wasn't worth it.

If your WW has any sense of what she has done, she would be doing her damndest to reassure you.

In my case I needed all the details about the sex, I had to know what I was forgiving her for.

Just so you understand the affair sex is "better" it was forbidden, new, and risky. At the end of the day it was sex...porno sex that any body can have...but even that gets old. Hell it might have even been rushed, painful, and guilt ridden. And for some reason wayward seem to go back for more for one reason or another.

As far as the tool goes....some guys swing a 28oz. hammer I swing a 24oz. hammer as long as you can swing the hammer and drive the nail it still gets the job done.

How was your sex life before your old lady started phucking around?

I’m with NoMercy. I think it’s futile to believe you’ll get the truth unless you have an exceptional WS or one that wants to rub salt in the wound on their way out the door

[This message edited by Markone at 3:49 PM, June 17th (Sunday)]

You seem to be putting a lot of thought and effort into trying to stay in this situation your wayward wife put you in. Maybe you should think about what benefits you have of staying in this versus getting out of it altogether.

Do you really think she has more value than you?

It's been 6 months are you guys still together?

If so how is it going with regards to your old ladies behavior?

Is there remorse or just regret she got busted?

Is she still distant have you guys reconnected physically?

If she left you for the OM then never ever ask her about the affair sex, but if you guys are in R and she is doing the heavy lifting to help you heal then it might be time to clear the air.

Again I know from experience...even having to ask the dam question will be salt in the wound but if you have a decent chick she will work with you and help you get the answer you should have never had to ask in the first place if she kept her moral compass.

MilwaukeeMike42, Welcome to SI. Sorry you find yourself here, but it really is a great group of people.

I can relate to what you are going through because my wife had a 3 year affair with her much younger, buff personal fitness trainer. When her affair started, I was 47 and the trainer was 30. I saw nude pictures the trainer was exchanging with my wife, so I already knew he had a small dick.

I was someone that asked very graphic and detailed questions about the affair sex. I also wanted to know whether my wife preferred sex the other man (OM). Since this was a long term affair, mostly occurring in a private office at the gym, they had sex frequently and often. To make a long story short, I believe my wife was most thrilled with the validation that comes with attracting the attentions of a much younger and attractive man. I also believe she was very much aroused at the forbidden and secretive aspects of the affair. She enjoyed playing the role of the "bad girl" and trying to live the life of a young single woman.

I am now 11 years past d-day and fully reconciled, but I have to tell you, I really struggled with the mind movies for about a year. It really does a number on your head. I don't think there was anything special about the sex they had, although some of her affair sex was too kinky for me.

I always thought my wife and I had a good sex life before the affair, so even though it was a concern, I was not immediately too caught up on whether the affair sex was better. The more I learned during R, the more confident I became that the affair was based primarily on the emotional validation she received (ego kibbles) that kept her in the affair. The sex was mostly just a way to keep the OM in the affair. The OM was not married and very promiscuous, so my wife was trying to compete with young, single woman. Pretty disgusting behavior for a woman married over 20 years with 3 children. It is behavior I am sure she would not want our daughters to emulate.

As far as which questions to avoid, imagine getting the worst answer possible, and then decide whether you can handle it. You can also wait a while before asking the very graphic questions. Perhaps focus on getting a time line of events and the frequency of the sex. If it helps, just assume the sex was normal oral and intercourse. Hopefully protection was used, but this is usually not the case. That's why it is recommended to get STD testing done before resuming unprotected sex with your spouse.

One other thing, if the thoughts become too painful to bear, it is helpful to discuss with a individual counselor (IC). Preferably find an IC with experience dealing with infidelity. They can be very helpful when trying to navigate your way through this emotional roller coaster ride through hell.

I also recommend you start reading the book called, Not "Just Friends" by Shirley Glass. This book has other questions to ask your wife that may help you as well.

[This message edited by HardenMyHeart at 4:45 PM, June 17th (Sunday)]

Hello and welcome.

Does anyone have any advice ?

I think we could give you better advice if we knew a bit more about your situation. Things like:

"Was she caught or did she voluntarily confess?"

"How was your marriage and sex life before the A?"

"What is her behavior now post d-day?"

"What would you do if you somehow got a believable answer and it was the wrong one", or conversely "you got all the right answers and knew they were lies?"

One thing I already know for certain is that this status quo you've had for the last 6 months is no way to live. Have you thought about getting counseling to help constructively deal with this mental fallout? I did and it was a good choice for me.

Your pain is why I hate social media. As a woman I cringe every time I look in the mirror because I don’t look anything like all those gorgeous women/girls parading around. Did you and your friends worry about penis size until.....? Most men fall into the normal category. Actually, a good lover is one who makes sure the other feels cared for, eroused and satisfied. I can’t take away your pain but can tell you this. The sex was phenomenal because it was part of an intense acting out that had nothing to do with love and everything to do with sneaking around. If the OM got injured and had to stay out of the gym for a while those bulging muscles would go right back to normal size. Bulking up has nothing to do with penis size.

Ask all the women you know what it felt like the day they had to get breast implants to make them feel human because that is all they see every day.

Your wife needs to apologize to you a million times for putting this kind of long lasting pain in your life.

HardenMyHeart, et al

HardenMyHeart:

My wife's affair was very similar to your wife's affair.

We have been together for approx 27 years including dating and marriage. We have been deeply in love and lust the whole time. We have always had a great sex life. Even today (before the affair ) in our late 40s we were having sex at least three times a week. When we were kids we had sex every day.

She is an attractive woman who got male attention most of her life. The last few years she started feeling/looking her age and gained 20 pounds. She could not lose the weight and felt bad about it. She joined a gym.

Her trainer spent about a month coming on to her. By her own admission she encouraged it. Finally, her trainer asked her over to his apartment after a session. She went and they had sex. Over the next six weeks they met at his apartment and had sex each time for a total of 12 sexual encounters.

She confessed the affair to me after the 12th encounter because she said she felt guilty. I am still not totally convinced of this but that is what she said. Another option is the utility of the affair ran its course. It validated her as an attractive woman despite her age and the risk/benefit ratio increased and was no longer worth it in her eyes.

Since she confessed her behavior is excellent.

She knows she totally destroyed me. I think she underestimated the amount of destruction the affair would cause. The night she told me was the worst night of her life and my life. I cried uncontrollably for hours, screamed about not using protection and coming home to me after they had sex and kissing on the mouth and having sex with me 3-4 times per week. To top off the evening I vomited from stress and anxiety until I was dry heaving.

Since the first discussion I have asked very few questions about the sex because I fear the answers so much I do not take the risk to ask the questions.

The main questions I want to ask cover:1) Was he the best sex of your life and if so please explain2) Did you prefer rough sex with him over me since he is a 6'4" muscular athelete3) Was his penis bigger than mine and if so did you prefer it over mine. If you did prefer it over mine can you please explain exactly what you prefered.

I know the probability of him being the best sex of her life is very low since we have been in love for 27 years and have always had a great sex life. Nonetheless, I still fear the answer so I do not ask the question. Additionally, I know her mind and body and can make her orgasm every time in a rather short time. I doubt someone she didnt know for years could do that to her.

Also, women love feeling safe and secure during sex. I doubt she felt safe and secure with a guy she just met. ( The affair was not emotional at all )

As for the rough sex I am deeply afraid. She loves rough sex. He is a 6'4" muscular athlete who could probably outperform me in the arena of rough sex. ( It is also not my favorite so if he was really into it she might love it )

Lastly, the penis size thing really kills me. I am a little smaller than average in that department and he is 6'4". Odds are he is bigger. This totally kills me. It kills my sex drive. It kills my desire for my wife. It terrifies me. I dont know how to discuss it with her so I avoid it completely.

As for all the other details I can accept them. It took months of working through all the details in my head such as the possibility she swallowed after giving him a BJ or wondering where he came if he pulled out. I have accepted all the horrid details EXCEPT the ones where she potentially enjoyed sex with him more than me.

It just kills me that there is a possibility she enjoyed sex with him more than me and I dont know what to do about it. This is no way to live and it is killing our sex life.

At some point I am going to talk to her about it but I cannot risk the wrong answer. Also, I am horrified in staying in a marriage where her AP was the best sex she ever had. I actually considered asking her to take a polygraph on this subject but I also cant imagine getting divorced after being with her 27 years.

I am between and rock and a hard place.

I had to know.

and the real affair was less than my mind movies.

You can have her get tested for stds.

Have her write a timeline of the A for you.

And then have her take a polygraph for you.

Have you told his work? Has she stopped protecting him and helped you tell his work?

was she caught?

Does she think that she is the only one that he has sex with?

He would not marry her.

do you have kids?

She can get anyone to have sex with her, but not marry her.

Is your marriage important to her? is she safe now? has she stopped all contact?

Cooley2here

You said

"The sex was phenomenal because it was part of an intense acting out that had nothing to do with love and everything to do with sneaking around"

1) You partly validated my fear that her affair was the best sex of her life. ( I understand that affair sex is frequently incredible but that is not always the case ) Also, there is a difference between phenomenal sex and the best sex of her life. She went back for 12 encounters so it must have been good or great sex but I think the best sex of your life requires love and more than 12 encounters with someone you dont know so they can figure out your body and what you want/need.

Also, I have heard women say that best sex of their life requires feeling safe with the man. I doubt she felt safe with a man she did not know very long or well.

In summary, if she had great sex I would be hurt. If she had the best sex of her life I would be totally destroyed beyond belief. I would not want to be married to a wife who had the best sex of her life with another man she screwed after 26.5 years of marriage to me.

Your feelings and thoughts are very normal. It can be difficult to get to truth on these questions because a WW who hopes to R will always try to minimize. They almost always say the sex was mediocre, and he wasn't that good in bed, etc. Yet the fact remains that they invest a lot of energy, imagination, etc., into repeatedly returning - for sex. And they also go to great lengths to hide ot from their spouse. Do you really think they would do that for mediocre sex?

Keep in mind she is in fact a liar. She concealed the A from you and otherwise snuck around. She actively lied to you. In other words, so far the one thing every WW has proven through action s is that she can and will lie. So you have no reason to believe anything she says. If your gut feel like she is minimizing, listen to that.

Is there any possibility of seeing emails or texts or other messages between them? That would give you a record of what she was telling him. Even if she has deleted them there are often caches stored on devices that can be recovered.

The normal paradigm we use on SI is that she destroyed the marriage with her A. It is up to her to prove to you, through her actions, that she is somebody you would want to be arrived to, knowing that she fucked another an after so any years of marriage. One way she can prove that is by being proactive about getting you all the truth you need.