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So, if I could sum up what I think your saying, WW's are "crazy" when they are in the A, hence, they act as crazy women do, sexual dynamo?

Yup, more or less that's my hypothesis. At least as to some WW in some A's. In particular, WW in seemingly happy M's, who for no externally apparent reason get into a highly sexual LTA. From the threads here, we eventually learn that she was in some type of existential crisis, something she suffered privately without sharing with her BH.

I do not get the battle. It is logical that she had the sex because she enjoyed it. It is logical not to believe someone who has been lying to you.

Why is it an issue to take that stance.

If the situation was revesed I would also say the WH is lying.

I do not get the battle. It is logical that she had the sex because she enjoyed it. It is logical not to believe someone who has been lying to you.

Why is it an issue to take that stance.

If the situation was revesed I would also say the WH is lying.

Question to the WW's

That's what Rideitout asked for, so how come he's getting a whole lot of NOT wayward and NOT women's answers?

I guess I wonder why betrayed men feel qualified to answer when they are NOT wayward and NOT women?

^^^ So, it's not just me? ^^^

Good.

Perhaps because RIO posted in general and not in the specific “I can relate” forum for questions for waywards.

Spouse gave me real short answer:

"That's what you do in a relationship."

I didn't ask anything else. I think all normal

people know what can happen when clothes come off.

Why badger that topic?

Perhaps because RIO posted in general and not in the specific “I can relate” forum for questions for waywards.

I was going to say perhaps because RIO posted in generalizations, but there is that. I would add that the idea that men can't have any insight on something like this is as ridiculous as thinking that all women do things for the same reason... or maybe its the same thing actually.

You know, I spent the first two years trying to logically understand why my WH did things he did. I mean to tell you I twisted and turned and asked every question. And I’d say he was honest because I’m one of the lucky ones who was told how amazing her sex was. That woman had 20 orgasms each time they met. Yep. Super fun. After all of it, I’ve come to the conclusion that logic is not part of any of this. It simply isn’t. I can’t understand his actions because I’m not him and I wouldn’t cheat. The ego kibble crap would have me rolling my eyes, knowing the intent. In fact, I figured out a lot of that in my 20s. It’s clear to me that many who are willing to cheat have things to work through that others have made their way through years ago. It’s why I’m angry for the BHs here who clearly adore their wives. I’d have killed for that.

I think I’m getting off topic. You won’t find logic where there is none. Each person, male or female had their own issues that led to their choice to cheat. None of those reasons make sense to those of us who haven’t cheated. That’s why immediately after hearing a response you think, “but why did you think that?” “That makes no sense. “ “Weren’t you thinking of your kids, the years we’ve had?” Yeah. Nope. I KNOW your brain wants THE answer. I’m suggesting the women here are offering the closest you’ll get. Yet it won’t help or make sense to you. I’m sorry for that...for all betrayed spouses.

I’m laughing about the crazy women/porn sex. I’m a bw but it really makes sense to me. When I dropped my son off at college, I gave him advice that his father and grandfather (fil) hadn’t ever considered: don’t stick your dick in crazy. Knowing about his dad and my in laws, he understood perfectly. I won’t win parenting awards, but it needed to be said. Break the chain, son.

I also have a daughter heading off to school, so my advice will be a little different, but seeking validation thru sex and being sexually desired is a shit plan.

When you combine an ego-hungry man who lives for being told how awesome he is, with a woman who needs to be the one who goes home with a man she feels other women want (winning!) it’s so terribly unhealthy. Sex as currency is short term “look at me, I’m super special” and long term “why doesn’t anyone love me.”

Wh and I chatted about boundaries yesterday - without boundaries there cannot be respect. His sister is overly generous to friends, needs a lot of validation that way, in large numbers. She had 10+ women to her weekend place, had a bad diagnosis the next week, and only 2 of those women signed up to help with dinners. She’s terribly hurt. But they took advantage of a huge offer that wasn’t exactly selfless to begin with. She needed big numbers of friends to feel important.

Long winded way of saying that as soon as your actions are transactional and without self respect, you’ve exposed yourself and will not receive respect. Sex outside of marriage seems like it would be the same. Youve disrespected boundaries, so you will not find respect, happiness, satisfaction. It’s surprising to me that people think fucking another’s spouse is the ace in the hole, so to speak. Saying no where others say yes is where the power is.

OK, little cool off time did me good. Kept me from getting mandatory cool off time.

I do not get the battle. It is logical that she had the sex because she enjoyed it. It is logical not to believe someone who has been lying to you.

When it comes to my W, of course your right. If I didn't have this board, I'd follow exactly what you're saying. Yeah, your a known liar, and this is just the next thing you're lying about. With good reason, she knows that would hurt me, and I'm sure she also knows that's a big deal to many BS's. So, summed up, if this board didn't exist, I would have heard that, called bull, and never believed it.

But here, on many posts with similar topics or questions, many WW's line up and tell a story that's VERY similar to my W's. It wasn't about sex. The sex wasn't important. These WW's have no reason to lie to me. Maybe they are, maybe they are lying to themselves, another working hypothesis; but, if we assume their not.. OK then, if it wasn't about the sex, why is sex pretty much all you did with the AP?? That's how this question came to be, of course, I want to know the answer for my W, what her real reasons are. But I feel the only way I can get that answer is from other WW's who say something similar because they have no motivation to lie.

"That's what you do in a relationship."

True, but you do a lot of other things in a normal relationship too that don't typically happen in A's. Like.. I don't know, meet each others friends/family, make plans together, build a future together, respect one another.. None of those things happen in most A's, and, IMHO, a lot of those things are abjectly more important to many WS..

You know, I spent the first two years trying to logically understand why my WH did things he did. I mean to tell you I twisted and turned and asked every question. And I’d say he was honest because I’m one of the lucky ones who was told how amazing her sex was.

Well, gently, it seems that if what you posted is coupled with your H saying "I really enjoy/highly value sex" then, what he did is entirely logical. It's also awful, logical DOES NOT mean "good", "right" or "acceptable". Not at all, a lot of logical conclusions have led to absolutely awful human suffering. But there was a reason behind it. If your H was sexually motivated, the sex was fun, well.. Doesn't take much of a leap to say the underlying logic was "like sex, she's offering, don't think I'll get caught, let's go". That, BTW, is the logic that underlies every male A I know of personally, so, not only would this be easy for me to understand, I'd believe it because I've heard it enough times from other people.

And to me, that’s not logical because just because I want something, doesn’t mean I should get it, do it, whatever. It’s called growing up.

And to me, that’s not logical because just because I want something, doesn’t mean I should get it, do it, whatever. It’s called growing up.

Logical /= Morally acceptable

Not even a little bit. People who've made that mistake in positions of power throughout history have conducted some of the worst possible crimes against humanity. There are logical reasons to kill someone. Logical reasons to steal. Logical reasons to do pretty much any horrible thing you can imagine. There are also crazy reasons to do all those things.

Which makes me think of an analogy. If you're poor and starving to death on the street, it may be logical to walk into a mini-mart and steal some food. Not RIGHT, but logical. You're hungry, they have food in there, so you go in and steal. Then there are the compulsive shoplifters, they have an Amex and 500 bucks in their purse and walk into the same store and steal a bottle of soda. There's no logic to that. That's just crazy, they have more soda than they can drink at home, they have more money than it takes to buy the soda.. Why steal it?

That's kind of what I feel like when I read these threads. I can follow the logic for a lot of WH's; they are "starving" and there's food in that store. So they steal it. Now, are they really starving, or are they just fat asses? Dude, you weigh 400 lbs, I'm pretty sure you'll make it until you get home without a cupcake. Which is why I'm not easier on WH's (in some cases harder), because, very few are really starving, and, if they are, they should find somewhere new to buy food, not steal it. But it feels like what a lot of other APs do is walk into the same store with plenty of money and steal a cupcake.. Why? I don't know. Because they wanted to? Yes, but what does that tell me. Because it was a thrill? Yes, but what if they aren't into thrillseeking? Because they have a mental issue? Maybe. Because they like the cupcakes in the store better than the ones at home? Well. That makes sense, but it's also not the story that's often told.

Stayed, I answered that many pages back and continuing to your comment.

OIN, I am not sure what that acronym means but it stopped looking like this was a thread seeking understanding and more like a thread for men to yet again bash women, their sexuality, and their mentality!

Chicky, thanks. Its really difficult to see people not qualified to speak for a group speak for a group. Its how minority marginalization happens.

Heaven forbid a woman be good in bed for she must be insane!!!

Awful.

[This message edited by Hardroadout at 7:56 AM, June 30th (Saturday)]

Slight TJ for a moment. Hardroadout, as I see this thread is that betrayed men are desperately trying to understand the massive contradictions that we hear coming from our WW's. We are mostly logical creatures and not really understanding that there is no logic in an affair at all.

Reference the "crazy woman" concept, we are simply noticing that women that have massive FOO issues are usually more adventurous in the bedroom. Just by observation alone, notice the term "usually" so it is not 100% reliable but it IS a rather high percentage in our experience.

When a man is dealing with a WS he is completely devastated and thoroughly confused. I mean really, she HAS to be crazy because why would she look anywhere else when she has ME???(Most men in my experience are conceited, we HAVE to because we HAVE to believe we can do what we do better than almost anybody else. Otherwise we would go out into the world expecting to lose at everything everyday. Some men tell about it and get labeled as conceited and other men keep it to themselves and are labeled humble. We however pretty much all HAVE to think it to be able to compete in the real world effectively) So, again logicly, she MUST be crazy and then to have to find out she did "crazy sexual things with AP that she would NEVER do with you and our previous experience with damaged women in the past what would YOU think?

I don't see men "bashing" women, I see men trying to logically understand the completely illogical behavior of "our" woman.

JMO YMMV

We are mostly logical creatures and not really understanding that there is no logic in an affair at all.

No logic in SOME affairs. Some are entirely logical. When I hear of a friend's A, it makes perfect sense. It's not that I condone it, or that I think they are in the right for doing it; but I understand it. They want more sex or sex with different people. Your options are open marriage, A, or deal with it. The right answer is the 3rd, but it's logical that someone chooses the 2nd. It's the WRONG choice, but it's a logical choice stemming from the problem (real or perceived).

An A for love? That makes 0 sense to me. Anyone with Google and 10 seconds can read the stats on A's. They almost NEVER end in love. They end in heartbreak actually. An A for ego kibbles? OK, that makes some sense to me, but why then spend so much time having sex that the guy/girl can't even catch his/her breath to deliver said ego kibble? That's where the logic flies out the window for me. Why have so much sex if that's not what you want? Will the AP really pull back all ego kibbles/kind words if you dial it back from 6 times a day to 4? Won't give you the really good kibble if you don't have anal sex or swallow? If you WANT to have anal sex and swallow, OK, everything lines up. But so many WS's come here and say "And I didn't even want to do it" or "It made me feel bad to do it" or some other variation of "I did it, but didn't enjoy it, I only wanted the love story he/she wrote for me". Why do it then? Especially as a woman, it makes even less sense to me because moving from EA to PA makes R much less likely. I guess I could ask the same question for of men involved in a pure PA, why on earth would you turn that into an EA? Thing is, most men don't. They may say "EA things" to get more PA, but most men don't get emotionally invested in the AP. Makes sense, they want the PA, they'll "ape" the words of love, and they get what they want out of the A.

I think a lot of women have the displeasure of finding some kind of evidence of the "lovey words" that their H used to have an A. I'm sure it's horrible. But to complete this example, if, instead of some TXT's that were "your so amazing/sexy/the love of my life".. What if you found a book (which, some women do, and I'm sorry) that had 1000's of pages of how wonderful and amazing the AP is. I feel like that's what I (and others, I know) are dealing with here. Like, it wouldn't have been enough to just write her a love letter? You had to write 1,000 PAGES of love letters to her? Spend every waking minute with her reading poetry and telling her how amazing she is? Oh, and now your telling me that you didn't even like writing the poetry? Well, that's interesting, since pretty much all you did in the A is write poetry to her, I'm not sure what else you got out of it. Kind of a weak analogy, but, if I'm the BS in that situation, I'm going to have a lot of trouble believing that. And I think that's where a lot of us are stuck, at least, IMHO.

Multiple women have answered. Both waywards and non waywards.

There are multiple men on this thread who have refused to accept the explanations. They reduce it to one liners: she liked the porn star sex, it had to have been that, and she is lying if she tells you otherwise.

Then, it turned into an underhanded bash: women who are better in bed are crazy.

Awful.

Wishing all of you the best, and some of you more open minds.

Alternative question: my husband originally said the A was because she understands him in a way that I never could. Why did he take it physical?

I don't understand the original question because it seems as obvious to me as the reason any man would take it physical. I didn't want to touch this thread for a long time because merely the title seemed super sexist. I'm glad for some of the many debunking answers that are on here.

[This message edited by Simplicity at 10:45 AM, June 30th (Saturday)]

I don't understand the original question because it seems as obvious to me as the reason any man would take it physical.

Does your H claim that sex isn't important to him? That he doesn't get much or anything from it? That it wasn't important to him in the A, in fact, all he really wanted was to be understood? Claim the sex sucked but take Viagra to make sure he could go 4X every time they were together?

If so, you're in the same boat. If not, then, while similar, there are marked differences between what my (and many other) WW's say.

If I was an AP, and my wife asked me "why did you sleep with her instead of just talking" I'd look at her like she had 3 heads. I had an A to have sex. That's what I was there for.