SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Fire away, I'm sure the pro D brigade will be on my ass!

You make it seem like whatever decision you have will affect folks lives. It won't. Only yours.

So effectively you've warned her divorce is on the table which you know she's scared about, so you might get sex..but it will be forced because she will do it to placate you.

You might get a better wife, but she will be doing it to stave off divorce.

Inherently nothing wrong with that...except authenticity. Who knows maybe she might dig down and do the hard work needed not only to strengthen the marriage but also the connection between you.

But whether you D or not, affects zero people on here....only you.

So after all the build up and talk, she denies you sex, again.

I'm standing by my statement that she has her own 2 year plan. She can cry and beg and talk about grand kids, she can lie, cheaters are good at it. You are far enough out from the affair, that if she really wanted to do the work, she would be doing it.

As for what Glasses said, she has good points but she (thankfully) has never been another woman in an affair. Imagine being a mom, a wife, cleaning, cooking, going day by day feeling like you lost who you are, and then all of a sudden you become the object of someones desires, the talk, the excitement, the forbidden nature of it. You feel empowered because you seem to posses something that makes this man really really want you. I don't think she just laid there during affair sex and thought about clothes. She kept going back for more. There is a rush to it, and a power feeling.

Things just don't add up. I think your wife has more going on than she is telling you.

Pink, I actually sent her your last comment, as it included several things I had been thinking about.

She called me crying. Saying that her 2 year plan is to be happy with me. She said she’s excited to finish school, get a decent career and hopefully alleviate some of my mental load surrounding finances. She says she is beyond grateful that I’m allowing her the chance to go back to school, and that she would never use that as a stepping stone so that she could leave me. Said she owes everything to me, and I am so sorry I have hurt you and made you feel unloved.

She also said she was sorry she didn’t feel good last night, but that she totally plans to have really good sex tonight. She says that she really wants to improve our sex life, not just to placate me. She doesn’t know what’s wrong with her that she has a low sex drive. She said she enjoys it, but has a hard time reaching orgasm. She says that she does sometimes get there with me, but it’s not a sensation that she can reproduce on her own. She says she thinks I’m sexy, especially since I lost a bunch of weight and got toned up a bit. She said it worries her because she can tell other women find me attractive, and that she’s afraid I’m going to have a RA. She also knows that is a very hypocritical thing to think.

I don’t know... we’ll see how tonight goes. We have a date night planned for Saturday. She suggested we pick out an outfit for her to wear. We haven’t done that since before the kids were born, even though she looks just as good now as she did then. So we will see what happens.

Thats good Fenderguy...lets hope her actions match her words. Words are the easy part.

I really really am not pro divorce. Her actions just don't match her words and its so far past your dday, so it is like she should have been doing all this work on her own without her pushing you if she really wanted the outcome she says she does. How does she think you both will get there if she doesn't do her part?

At least now you have said what you need to say and going forward she makes the effort.

If she is being sincere, then she has some sort of mental/emotional block that is inhibiting her ability to have/enjoy sex with you. My gut is that it is something along the lines of a fear of failure, or perhaps stated another way, a feeling of inadequacy and a fear of discovering she cannot be adequate. Honestly, I've had this thought many times when reading your various posts and threads.

Pink, I recognize that what you say could be completely valid. But somehow, in this relationship I think she is being sincere. Oddly, that feeling is bolstered by her statements (which I believe) that even her A sex was boring and mediocre. I guess that makes me sort of the yin to Pink's yang.

If that is the case, then expecting her to suddenly be able to conjure up a virtuoso sex performance in your presence is unrealistic. It explains why she got shit-faced drunk on your birthday.

I've made this suggestion many times to couples experiencing issues like yours. Try agreeing that you will have sex -- and I mean PIV penetration -- every day for 10 days straight. This will be difficult to do because of schedules, sleepiness, etc. It will require that the two of you communicate about how/when/how long, etc. You don't necessarily need to cum each time, but you need to be inside her, which means you need to also discuss how long that will be and such.

Another fun activity might be to devote one day a month to doing any every non-penetration sexual act that the other person wants. That is, one day it's your turn to do what she wants, and vice versa (the obvious limit being you can't make them do something they find repulsive or painful).

At the very least, lower the bar, a lot. Start with baby steps, and tell your wife that this is what you want to do. Take off your clothes and hold/caress each other. Nothing more expected than that. Give her a coconut oil full body massage, without any expectation of sex. Etc. Learn to touch and hold each other intimately, with desire. Then go from there.

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 9:22 AM, July 26th (Thursday)]

Ever since our 2nd child was born 5 years ago, her sex drive has plummeted. She is almost prudish now, seems to get offended by sexual humor. It’s almost like she views sex as something kind of immature or juvenile. Which is why her having a PA kind of confuses me. I told her that it seems clear to me that she is not attracted to me, but she was to me. She says that’s ridiculous, but we can’t seem to grasp each other’s thought process on this.

Fender, My wife is a dentist and we have 5 kids aged 4 to 15 at the time. There were years in there where she just stopped having sex for months and months. There was a period of time where I had sex with her maybe three times in a year and she hated it.

Her parents never talked about sex or romance and she assumed that role with me as she aged. Thought sex was gross for a while and could not get wound up no matter what. Things were better then for a while.

Then she had the affair. The affair, for her was all about attention and talking and ego kibbles. The sex came later as he was pressuring her for a long time and finally felt obligated to give him some to keep the ego kibbles going. He has ED that only allowed him a couple minutes of "time over target". She tell me this and it was confirmed by polygraph. She said the sex was "meh" and she never had orgasm, again confirmed by polygraph. It was about the companionship, the excitement of a "special friend" and the ego boost and escape.

From what I see now, she was stressed to the max with her business, her responsibilities with her children, financial concerns, aging parents and all that. When I was romancing her, she was still in the marriage zone with all these responsibilities. When she was talking or seeing the OM, it was outside the marriage with no responsibilities, no strings, no consequences, no history, just excitement and fun with everything new and fresh.

There really is no way you can compete with new and fresh and no responsibilities and no painful history. It was like running a marathon with some guy in the crowd jumping in at the last few hundred feed and racing you. Pisses me off to be compared like that.

Anyway, she worked her way out of the fog and worked her way out of the "sex is yucky" phase she was stuck in. Not really sure what it was that changed within her -- it started to occur a couple years before the affair. She just started liking it again.

Now she enjoys sex more than ever, partly because I have mind movies and I have to focus energy pushing the dark thoughts out of my mind. This makes me less likely to finish things up for me, so it lasts a lot longer for her. Kinda unfair, but that's where we are at.

I don't know why she flip flopped on her being Ok, then not ok, then ok, then really ok with sex. It doesn't make sense with me, and she doesn't really know why other than her "not being in a good place". I guess for most guys we can compartmentalize more and most women have everything all touching other things in their mind. If you figure it out, let me know.

I just wanted you to know that I've been there and know what your experiencing and I've moved out of there. I'm 49 so I guess I'm just 10 years further along. Sometimes they just need to age out of that place.

[This message edited by notperfect5 at 9:40 AM, July 26th (Thursday)]

Butforthegrace I think your suggestions are awesome. I’m going to have my wife read your post and see what she thinks.

Notperfect5, that sounds SO FAMILIAR! Her family never spoke to her about sex, except that it’s BAD! The community we grew up in is very religious. Sex was bad. The girls in my HS that had sex were “sluts”, even if it was just with their steady boyfriend of 2 years. I think during the first 5 years of our relationship, our fantastic sex life was part of her rebellious phase. Used to be that nothing was off limits with her. Her sex drive was higher than mine. She used to wear me out! She doesn’t remember being like that. I have videos and pics to prove it.

What strikes me the most through all this is how you still speak of your wife. I think that shows a lot. It is clear you still love and desire her. I hope she realizes how lucky she is!

I think during the first 5 years of our relationship, our fantastic sex life was part of her rebellious phase. Used to be that nothing was off limits with her. Her sex drive was higher than mine.

EXACTLY!!!

Once, when we were dating, she took me into her dad's bed (her parents slept in different rooms). Once she took me into my parent's bathtub. I was really uncomfortable doing that but at the time, it was like, "Yikes this is kinda dangerous! and fun!"

It was like she had to take all of that prudence and chastity and give it a big "FUCK YOU!!" to it all.

Then we got married and after 5 or 6 years it was like she turned into her mom thinking sex was gross and all that and didn't want me ever to touch her. I'm thinking, "Is this the same person that stripped my clothes off in her dad's bed?" So confusing...

Now it's like she gets all hurt if I don't express interest in her or have sex in a few days or don't orgasm. I think it all has to do with big time FOO issues and I'm just along for the ride. I do think she is in a much more stable, healthy place now and I do blame part of all that mess inside her for the affair.

[This message edited by notperfect5 at 11:51 AM, July 26th (Thursday)]

I don’t know how to describe it. I’m very angry at her. After DDay I felt nothing but pure indifference for her. I feel that really helped me get over the affair. I don’t really focus on her infidelity so much anymore. I’m more concerned about what is she going to do to help potentially fix our marriage.

I do love her. She is a kind, wonderful woman. She actually treats me very well most of the time. We get along great usually, co-parent well. I actually think we have a better relationship now than we did during the year or so leading up to her affair. She is just as beautiful to me as ever. And she still turns me on. It’s mainly the sexual thing that is our Hangup. Like I said, I’m not expecting a full treatment of anal, oral, porn like sex. Just intimate, mutually satisfactory sex. I refuse to live the rest of my life never having good sex.

I’ve never called her a bad name. Sometimes I think I behaved myself after DDay towards her so that if we did get divorced, she wouldn’t be able to say I called her a slut/whore/bitch or whatever. But I really don’t take it personally that she had an A. Our M was getting kind of rocky. The description Pink gave about the bored housewife is spot on. He made her feel some kind of way, and it escalated from there. I know that I’m a good husband and father, a nice overall man, and that I have so sexual inadequatcies that made her cheat. It’s her problem that she cheated.

I’ll let you know how tonight goes. My guess is that since Saturday is date night sex, tonight will be more of a quick, keep it quiet so the kids don’t hear type of situation. I enjoy those as well, but just don’t want it to be like that every time.

Notperfect5, OMG I can so relate!!! One time when we were dating, we went back to my wife’s apartment, and we were ready to go. When we got there, her roommate was having a bit of a shindig, there were about 10-15 people in their apartment. Sex wasn’t really an option. So we went out back, and I fucked her in the alley behind her apartment. All because she couldn’t wait any longer!

How did my wife go from banging me in an alley in the middle of the night to being reserved about having sex in our bed with the doors locked? A lot can change in a decade, I guess!

I believe my wife’s FOO issues also have a lot to do with it. As she gets older, she is becoming EXACTLY like her mother! Kinda scary!! Her Mom is a very chaste, pure woman. Has never drank alcohol, smoked a cigarette, or had sex with anyone but her husband. She is literally offended by everything. And my W is becoming the same!

[This message edited by Fenderguy at 12:07 PM, July 26th (Thursday)]

I am sorry, but is your wife in IC??? It's a must.

You are describing a FOO that is possibly:

I am not my mom.

I am independent and sexy, I'm not bad.

Now I am a mom.

Should I be my mom?

Moms are supposed to be like my mom.

My mom makes me feel like I should be like her.

Am I good mom?

I hate being like my f-ing mom. I am a bad person, I guess.

I DON'T KNOW!!!!!

Good mom--chaste. Watch me act pure! I can do this, I can be good.

Bad person--fuck my mom! I am independent and exciting! Watch me have an A!

I am bad.

I am good.

I am bad.

I am good.

I am so confused.

I hate me.

She needs help!!! What a friggin' nightmare for a role model!

She needs to forgive herself for not being her mom, put up boundaries against her mom's judging, figure out who she wants to be--her true identity, and learn to self-approve for validation.

Ask me how I know all this.

I could be wrong, but I went through something like this. So sorry. But she CAN change!

I am sorry, but is your wife in IC??? It's a must.

You are describing a FOO that is possibly:

I am not my mom.

I am independent and sexy, I'm not bad.

Now I am a mom.

Should I be my mom?

Moms are supposed to be like my mom.

My mom makes me feel like I should be like her.

Am I good mom?

I hate being like my f-ing mom. I am a bad person, I guess.

I DON'T KNOW!!!!!

Good mom--chaste. Watch me act pure! I can do this, I can be good.

Bad person--fuck my mom! I am independent and exciting! Watch me have an A!

I am bad.

I am good.

I am bad.

I am good.

I am so confused.

I hate me.

She needs help!!! What a friggin' nightmare for a role model!

Nailed it.

Ask me how I know all this.

I am so sorry.

How did my wife go from banging me in an alley in the middle of the night to being reserved about having sex in our bed with the doors locked? A lot can change in a decade, I guess!

Yes! One time, when we were dating, we went for a walk down by the river and she took me off and we started to make out, clothes mostly off. I was very self conscious and freaking because we were kind of out in the open. She basically said "screw it!". Then a canoe floated by with parents and a 7 year old in the middle -- awkward!! Wife didn't miss a beat.

Then, twelve years later she basically has to be covered up ALL THE TIME, even walking around out of the shower. If we want to have sex, it's basically shut ALL the blinds and lock and bar the door in complete darkness. Have sex only fully covered up by sheets so that she is not exposed in any way because it would be embarrassing for her.

So what the hell happened?

Then she says screw it all and has a year long exit affair (complete with kids discovering) and throws her whole family under the bus.

It makes no sense to me. I think OwningitNow has the right idea. Lots of IC to stop projecting their mom's thoughts onto their lives and then blowing things up to break out of the projection.

Thant's interesting. While we were dating is almost sex anywhere with her taking the lead. For a couple years after we were married sort of the same but tapering off. Then it was almost like she was a prude. I provided lots of orgasms, PIV, manual, oral and toys but we started reluctantly except if we were in hotels. Interesting discussion.

How did it go last night?

“how did last night go?”

Not as good as your night was, Pink. Let’s just say I wasn’t feeling any sexual energy from her at all and I just decided that I’d rather not. I just couldn’t bring myself to pound my way through another lifeless session of duty sex. She’s never gonna get it, I feel like a pathetic loser trying to get her interested in sex. Like some high school dork trying to coerce his girlfriend into giving him a handjob. She was tired last night, but willing to allow me to have sex with her. Just like every other time.

I’m not sure what to do now. It’s pretty obvious that if I’m ever to have decent sex again, it’s not going to be with her. It’s just not going to happen. Options remain the same;

1. remain faithful to her and have a crappy sex life.

2. Have sex with somebody else while married

3. Get divorced and have at least a chance of finding somebody who will want to have sex with me, but also ruining my kids lives in the process.

Can I really break up my family and destroy my kids world just because I’m too horny?

I feel like this thread has been one big fucking circle. Sorry if everyone feels like I wasted their time. I really did take your advice to heart, and I was temporarily optimistic about R. Now, I just feel BLAH about everything.