SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

DF,

Sharing and reading other people's feelings, attitudes, experiences, and thoughts is kind of the point of this place isn't it.

Murky,

I'm not sure where the misunderstanding is. RIO said if HE lost HIS sex drive he'd divorce his W so SHE wouldn't have to live like that, without bothering to ask her how she'd feel about it, because even if she said she was OK with it and loved him anyway, he'd "never believe it." That's not relating someone else's thoughts and feelings; that's him (hypothetically) telling someone else how to deal with an issue and (again, hypothetically) accusing that person of being a liar if they want to handle the hypothetical situation differently.

There have been many instances where he has said (paraphrased) "This is how I'd feel in situation X, so I have a hard time believing that's not how [person A, B, or C] sees it too." I was just curious as to whether he was aware of this.

I'm sorry I didn't make myself more clear.

[This message edited by Darkness Falls at 7:45 PM, July 28th (Saturday)]

Well date night was a success. Good times, good laughs, good sex. It was pretty basic stuff, but much better than it’s been in awhile. I am pretty sure she even had an orgasm. I mean, she could’ve been faking it, but I really don’t think she did judging by the noises and body language. I didn’t really do a follow up interview with her, we more or less just collapsed after that and just kinda laid there and talked.

I’m gonna chalk this one up in the victory column. The A never came up, which I’m glad for because frankly, I’m sick of thinking about it! Need more date nights! Anniversary is coming soon, so we can squeeze another date night out of my parents for that.

RIO, I will say that overall I’m pretty happy with her outside of the sex area. If nights like tonight happened more often I would basically have zero issues. But I don’t think my wife would be cool with an arrangement like that (even though she had a side piece... ironic). For a brief while, I honestly considering having an A myself. I actually had 2 potential candidates in mind, that I’m sure would’ve been down with the right combination of circumstance and alcohol. One was about 10 years older than me, the other was 10 years younger. That was my darkest hour. I have stopped going to the place where I would see those 2 women. I doubt I would’ve ever gone tthrough with it. Luckily I snapped out of it.

Iwantmyglasses, don’t you worry... no RA for me! I’d get a D before I allowed that to happen. But I’m actually pretty pleased with everything tonight. Thanks for the continued support!

Good luck Fender. Don't forget to share with her about what you liked. It's just as important as being clear about what is lacking.

Great news!!! So glad you had an awesome night!

[This message edited by pinkpggy at 7:03 AM, July 29th (Sunday)]

RIO, I will say that overall I’m pretty happy with her outside of the sex area. If nights like tonight happened more often I would basically have zero issues. But I don’t think my wife would be cool with an arrangement like that (even though she had a side piece... ironic). For a brief while, I honestly considering having an A myself. I actually had 2 potential candidates in mind, that I’m sure would’ve been down with the right combination of circumstance and alcohol.

Well, in some ways, that's really good news. There are a lot of ways to work on the sex issues, but, if you're not happy in the relationship, then it's, in some ways easier I guess, but the path forward isn't what you (or I) want.

The only way forward is negotiation; you try to make her understand how important this is to you (which you've been doing) and then you keep making sure her needs are met along with yours. I wish I had better advice, but I will say, stay away from an A; I'm not calling you out, I think you're very mindful about it, but, the way you talk about your dissatisfaction with the relationship sounds nearly identical to how a lot of guys I know having A's talk. Love the wife, love our life together, no interest in sex after the kids, have someone on the side to deal with that. It's a story as old as it is horrible, and you know well enough from reading here where it goes.

Also, no idea if this is of interest or not, but there are drugs out there that will reduce your sex drive. I considered it at several points in the relationship with my W, everything was great except that I just felt so sad/frustrated/unreasonable because of my sex drive. Everything could go from "great" to "perfect" if I went from wanting sex 1X per day to 1X per month. I didn't do it, and I wouldn't suggest you do it, but, if I didn't want to not mention it was something that was of interest for you or others who have a similar issue.

FG- I am glad to hear you both had a nice time and especially happy to hear that the night ended the way you had hoped. I hope you keep posting. For me, I can relate so much to your story. My wife doesn’t withhold sex, she just doesn’t seem to put any effort into it and she rarely o’s. I too am hoping for an improvement. Wife tells me she can’t “connect” in the bedroom if she doesn’t feel “connected” outside of it. For me, it’s vice versa so we definitely have this chicken and egg dynamic going on in our M.

I haven’t read this entire thread, but it seems it has taken a turn, so let me give my initial thoughts based on the early part of the thread first. I think divorcing or reconciling are both acceptable paths. I wouldn’t judge people who decide one over the other. I don’t live in their shoes. I’m supportive of both. My experience is with reconciling so it’s where I tend to give advice. I’m also very supportive of getting your ducks in a row. I try not to judge how long that takes a NS because I’d imagine while in shock your still finding your ducks, let alone lining them up. However there was one thing that I stood firm on in the beginning days. I didn’t want to lose my integrity. My integrity dictated that I would remain truthful to my husband. Maybe I with held some in the beginning because we were rediscovering our relationship, but I couldn’t have planned a two year divorce ahead of time. This went against my integrity. It would have been deceitful. In fact when I did contemplate divorce, I was upfront with my husband. I was in the process of going to school and I said I didn’t want to finalize anything for 1.5 years so I’d still have insurance. Perhaps I knew my husband would abide by that. But I couldn’t sacrifice my morals by planning on divorcing years down the road. While I’m saying this - I’m still not judging you or anyone else - I actually just want you to consider this point of view in case you may later regret not being forthcoming. I hope that makes sense.

Now onto my advice based on the end of thread. Remember I come from an R perspective so it is what I know. If you are still considering R, then I think you need to communicate more. Tell her you are not happy with sex and then also tell her you are not happy with your previous results of talking about sex. Whether you keep this relationship or move on, being able to communicate is the cornerstone to a successful marriage. From a woman’s perspective, let me tell you some things that make me want my husband- affection all day. Hand holding, him grabbing me in the kitchen and pulling me close. Him showing that I’m who he wants. Passionate kisses. Not 5 minutes before penetration, but all the time. This makes me think about him a lot. I get that you may not want to be the pursuer after what she’s done. Perhaps that is the discussion you have. Tell her what you want. And I second morning sex or really my favorite is middle of the night sex because inhibitions are down.

Good luck!

Update: after A particularly unenthusiastic reaction to the proposal of sex (I didn’t think we were going to have sex tonight... but I guess we can...) we had a long argument. She basically told me her sex drive is dead. Gone. Can’t get it back, doesn’t know why. That’s just the way it is. I’m apparently destined to never have an enthusiastic sexual experience again. She is happy to bend over and allow me to have sex with her for my own release, because that’s what good wives do. But she does not desire any sexual touching. Oral is out of the question. There is no “heat of the moment”... there is no heat at all. Foreplay is essentially off the table, it makes her uncomfortable.

She is not going to change. I now have closure on that matter. I tried, she is simply not able or willing to have sex like a normal person. She sees nothing wrong with this, and says she enjoys our sex life a lot. There is no hope of change in the future. She has drawn her line. I made a few mentions of D or S, and she got mad at me and said I was being ridiculous. She said she’s tired of having this argument, and that I need to seek counseling.

I told her it’s just ME that she doesn’t want to act like that with because she’s not attracted to me. That really pissed her off. Then I reminded her of the fact that she happily fucked another man, and she threw back the usual “the appeal of my affair wasn’t sexual! I’m sorry that’s your takeaway, but it’s far from the reality of it!” Then she got mad and went to sleep with one of the kids...

So yeah.... back to where I was at the beginning of this thread. Except this time, I have the benefit of knowing for a fact that I tried, and that she isn’t going to be able to be what I need her to be. This sucks.

Wow. I actually wanted to post a question on this thread and kept forgetting.

Aside from "sex" and foreplay is there general interaction during the day/night? Like touching, kissing, hugging, snuggling in bed at night in the morning or while watching TV at night? Or is she overall just not touchy feely?

Obviously you are not the one that needs counseling. She needs to figure out what is going on, and she can start at the gynecologist and get an exam and blood work done and they can prescribe something for her. Is she on any form of birth control that could affect her hormones?

So when you have sex there is no kissing or touching or like oral on either end? How does she expect you to get it up? I'm so confused as to how that works in her mind, and how that is OK?

ETA: Your wife said she is very happy with your sex life? What does that even mean? She also said she is very happy in your marriage. Her words do not match up with any of her actions. She is happy with status quo, not uprooting her life, not facing what she did, and not having any consequences or having to make any effort. She is happy you are there paying the bills and supporting her, as long as you don't complain.

[This message edited by pinkpggy at 10:28 AM, August 6th (Monday)]

FG -

WWs love to say that their A wasn't about sex. Bc that way, it means that they meant something to each other. Admitting it was about sex makes them see themselves for what they really are.

The fact of the matter is, that she likes sex, just not with you. You are her lifestyle and security, and it feels like she thinks that you should be eternally grateful that she chose you and not her AP. In addition, she thinks her duty sex

is good enough for her H when her AP git so much more.

You need to file.

[This message edited by GoldenR at 10:18 AM, August 6th (Monday)]

That is very sad to hear and unfortunately a predictable outcome based on the totality of your posts. You have clearly put in the lions share of the reconciliation effort - no one can accuse you of not trying or being all in for it. So the question is - now that she has drawn her line in the sand - what is yours?

I'm so confused as to how that works in her mind,

pinkpiggy, there is no confusion. She has made it crystal clear. She has no interest or intent. The interest in sex and the interest in giving to her BS is dead, gone, over, ended. She spoke it with abrupt clarity. She is a WW. It's not like those sentiments fall outside of typical WW behaviors.

Nothing confusing at all about her position. Which is not to say it is acceptable, but it is clear.

This is the day of recoding for fenderguy. How does the rest of life look as things are and how does he want it to look.

....and she threw back the usual “the appeal of my affair wasn’t sexual! I’m sorry that’s your takeaway, but it’s far from the reality of it!”

You can tell her that she used sex to get what she was after. It was most certainly about the sex because no other currency could have gotten her what she was there for.

In the same way, if a happy and satisfied husband was what she was all in for, she could similarly use sex to pay for that as well. She was willing to use sex as payment for what she wanted but is not willing to use sex for an expression of remorse and desire to satisfy her BS.

Yours is not out of the ordinary. Almost all affairs are about the sex. The only distinction is what the sex is buying them. For some it is simple, it buys them sexual gratification. For others the sex buys them the opportunity to get a high that only an A can provide. For some it buys them compliments and phony feel good compliments. But, it is always about the sex in one way or another.

The difference: she was willing to use it to get what she wanted but not willing to use it to give you what you need.

I feel for you. I really do. I know the pain. You have to decide how much of it you will be able to endure and for how long. It sounds like she has made her mind up. You have to make up yours.

Wow, didn’t expect so much feedback so quickly, thanks!!

I’ll address Pink’s questions first. We do plenty of kissing and hand holding during the day. Playfulness, etc. NONE of that transfers into the sexual arena, which is very business like. Basically, she just shuts off during sex. TMI, but relevant; before sex, sometimes there is some light kissing, sometimes not. Touching her boobs and vagina are completely off limits, she actually recoils in disgust when I try to. She says her body has changed and she doesn’t like it. Usually, I have to lube myself up, because she of course produces no natural lubrication. Then she takes her bottoms off only, bends over, and I basically do my business until I am done. She occasionally makes some moans, nothing too exciting. We had a good one about a week ago where she confirmed she did orgasm, but that’s rare. Once I’m done, it’s immediately back to “tomorrow make sure the kids are ready by 8:00 and blah blah blah...”. It’s fucking awkward at best.

How does she expect me to get it up? I suppose I’m lucky in that it still just “gets up” when I want it to. I’m only 37, so that makes a difference. I’m sure I won’t be so lucky in 10-20 years. As far as oral sex... none since DDAY. She hasn’t gone down on me since March of 2016, I remember that because it was my birthday. As far as oral sex in her? I’m certain it’s been over 7 years, since before the kids were born. Despite my willingness to do so, she just hasn’t allowed it. I don’t think she even remembers what it’s like to have normal sex. She claims her friends don’t do those things either... oldest excuse in the book.

Sorry for the TMI... I just want everybody to get an idea about how far gone it actually is.

[This message edited by Fenderguy at 10:50 AM, August 6th (Monday)]

Wow. That sucks.

I do understand a lot of what she is saying, I really do. I understand her body issues after kids, etc. But if it weren't for the affair, it would make more sense.

I don't think it is a you issue, I think it is her. It is all in her head, she needs to get help for it.

The whole affair aspect just complicates it because I could say it is her issues about herself that stops her from having a normal sexual relationship, but the fact that she had an affair negates that. Obviously she is capable of having some form of elicit sex.

It seems outside of sex everything is good. Is she just absolutely not willing to get help for it?

Sigh. Just sigh....

Fender you deserve a happy life and a happy marriage. Honestly so does she. She doesn’t seem to be happy.

And you certainly are not happy.

If she won’t get help then, when you’re ready, it is probably time to file.

You are young. I’m 15 years older than you and still feel young. While my wife and I no longer have the frequency of newlyweds 30 years later, we still have a lot of fun in bed. You deserve that too.

You have really tried. We’ve all seen it. You even tried to tell her how you feel unattractive to her with no comfort back. You’ve even asked her to get medical help with this. It’s not simply a question of her initiating. It’s actually not connecting at all. Sex isn’t just bend over and in and out. It’s spending time and feeling connected. Im sure she didn’t just bend over for the AP.

You deserve better my friend. You tried talking about it. She rejected it. We know it’s hard but find your path out, whatever you need to make it happen (IC, talks with family and close friends, and yes meetings with a good lawyer).

Take care.

Steve, you are absolutely right. When I’m ready, I need to initiate a D. I’ve tried, really I have. I’m sick of feeling like this. What you described with your W is exactly what I want. To have FUN in bed. Not to feel like a rapist during marital sex. I don’t want to have sex like newlyweds. I don’t have a long list of sex acts that I require to feel good about myself. I just want to have a mutually satisfying, enjoyable sex life with my wife. I told her this, and she has shown, and even told me, that it’s basically not going to happen.

People have asked me why I put up with sexy like that? Sometimes I go with it because it still feels good to me, and she’s more than willing to provide that service for me. Sometimes I initiate sex, thinking this is going to be different. I’m gonna do this right, ease her into it, etc. Its never any different. Most of the time, SHE initiated. She’ll just say “okay, I’m tired, so let’s have a quickie before bed”. She actually gets offended if I refuse. She says I watch too much porn and have unrealistic expectations.

I will say this; after last night, I have no desire to have sex with this woman. I’m simply not going to. I’d rather chop it off at this point then continue to be humiliated like this. Our anniversary is in a few weeks, so sex is somewhat implied. But I’m not going to do it. I’ll just jerk off in the hotel bathroom after date night. That’ll be a better sexual experience for both of us.

I don’t think she thinks she needs to get help. Not really a problem for her. “Oh twiddly dee,, I’m not sexually attracted to my husband anymore... oh well, this happens. None of my friends have great sex lives either. It’s just something young people do when they’re all hopped up on hormones”. And yes, I truly feel that if we could just have good sex that I’d be entirely into this marriage. All other aspects are good.

Sometimes I wonder if I should really even still be asking for advice on an infidelity forum, instead of just a general marriage forum/. The infidelity seems like such an insignificant part of all this now. I tried Talkmarriage, and everybody over there just seems overly negative.

Sometimes I wonder if I should really even still be asking for advice on an infidelity forum, instead of just a general marriage forum/. The infidelity seems like such an insignificant part of all this now. I tried Talkmarriage, and everybody over there just seems overly negative.

If she didn't have the affair, and have sex willingly with another man, would it hurt as much that she is not as interested in sex with you? Would it just be chalked up to routine boring marriage sex had it not been for the affair?

I don't think the affair is insignificant. I don't think she has shown the remorse or done the work or paid any consequences from it. The fact that she isn't putting the effort and energy into you, but she was willing to put effort and energy into another man, is really the issue. She isn't willing to try for you anymore. That has to hurt you.

[This message edited by pinkpggy at 1:02 PM, August 6th (Monday)]

FG -

I'm 51. My wife is 42. We have explosive no holds barred sex several times a week, sometimes up to 2+ hrs.

Seriously, file. If that doesn't cure her problem, nothing will, and either way, you can get a satisfying, fulfilling sex life, be it with her or eventually someone rise.

[This message edited by GoldenR at 12:55 PM, August 6th (Monday)]