SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Falc - I get it. You need closure. There is no shame in wanting to see her again... if, for nothing else, simply to get an explanation. And we would probably all agree with you - you deserve an explanation.

That being said, I want to give you a few things to chew on.

Scenario 1 - You go back to see her and she doesn't bother showing up. If she's involved with someone else then she might feel that it's safer to simply do that. After all, she's irresponsible enough to just leave you with all the bills.

Scenario 2 - You go back, meet with her, and she looks at you and says, "I'm done with our marriage. It's been over for a long time but I didn't have the courage to tell you." You cry and beg and make a scene and she looks at you with contempt. You return feeling worse than when you went.

Scenario 3 - You go back and she says, "I do love you but I'm not ready yet to make a decision."

For as much as it might be important to you to get closure, any one of the three scenarios are very possible. And all three of them lead to the same end - you remaining stuck and feeling shitty about the entire event.

Now, there is a 4th scenario - the one where she looks at you and says, "I choose you." The reality is, however, that is very unlikely. Why? Because if that was her thought process, or even if she was remotely leaning that way, she would be in occasional contact.

So here's my most important comment due to the above - no matter what happens... how are YOU going to look at YOURSELF? In every one of the above scenarios you, 10 years from now, are going to bang your head against the wall for allowing yourself to be treated like this. You're going to hate yourself for having had such poor self-esteem that you allowed this woman to treat you so poorly. THAT is what reconciliation, or divorce, is going to look like. And trust me, I am living proof.

It is imperative that you turn your anger into action and take control of the situation. You do that by demanding your mom's ring back - now. You don't wait for a theoretical meeting sometime in the future. You tell your FIL to let her know that you want her ring immediately. File for divorce... it takes a pretty long time for it to go through... and have her served. Begin the process of moving on and let her know that you will NOT wait for her. You're not Plan B for anyone... so start acting like it.

Then - you detach. How? You keep yourself busy throughout the day. Go out with friends who know what you're going through and ask them, personally and intimately, to keep your mind occupied. Tell them you are having trouble being alone... can they keep you company? Take you out? Go for dinner?

Replace your happy thoughts of her with reminders of what she's doing to you. If necessary, write them down and put them in your pocket to pull out when you start feeling down. Simply begin the process of moving on with your life.

We all know how hard it is. Emotions are tough to overcome. But stay objective and do what is necessary.

I am a big proponent of giving reconciliation a chance. But you can't reconcile with someone who's not interested... and isn't even present. Move forward without her and you'll find out, very quickly, if she has any interest in coming along.

Don't you for one second tolerate the intolerable from her.

You will get thru this.

Do not chase her or you will suffer more.

Accept what she has done.

Accept that she is a shitty person.

People get thru this all the time.

You can too.

[This message edited by Gutpunch at 3:24 PM, October 4th (Thursday)]

Thank you LifeisCrazy. I just am getting so much from every direction. The "professionals" or therapists say to give it time. Text her a week or so before you leave to train and say 'I'll be in town on <date>, if you'd like to talk let me know'. They say to give it time, that I still have time to decide what I want to do. They will help me work on my communication and talking skills for my next relationship, etc.

Everyone here is saying D now, D now, D now. I know that I am not going to stand for being treated this way. I know that in 10 years I don't want to look back on this time and kick myself because I let her treat me like shit. But I want to look back on this time and tell myself that I did EVERYTHING I could to save the marriage. I gave her a month because I'm gracious even in the face of her fucking cold, pathetic, immature way of acting. I can be proud of that.

When we meet up, there's a few ways I see it going.

1. She says that she wants to end the marriage. I say 'Okay, expect papers. I'll take my Mom's ring'.

2. She says she needs more time or doesn't know. I have a conversation to see if there is a solution. If not, I say 'Okay, expect papers. I am no one's second choice. If you don't know you want me now, I am not waiting any longer. I'll take my Mom's ring'.

3. She says she wants me back. I say that I am not willing to take her back unless she adheres to three things that I will not waver on. Proof of NC with OM, IC for her and MC for us. If she doesn't want to do that then I say 'Okay, expect papers. I'll take my Mom's ring'.

I will not under any circumstance make a scene, cry, or beg. That is why I can look back on this and be proud, even if I give her a month because I am a gracious person. I understand that she has cut herself and has had abusive parents and bouts with severe depression. I can give her that and still look myself in the mirror and be okay with it.

EDIT - Am I really wrong in thinking that?

Thank you again for all the comments. What I need right now is discussion, I appreciate all the insight. I am just trying to process it and take in everything and utilize what I can. It's only been a week since she left, it's so godamn fresh.

EDIT 2 - She is going NC with me also. She is trying to detach and make a decision, right? The same shit that I have to do, she's doing but she's also got him, her friends, her family telling her she did the right thing.

[This message edited by Falc at 4:42 PM, October 4th (Thursday)]

You have no idea how you will react emotionally when or if you see her.

Hi Falc

TO be honest I’d prefer you don’t tell her your plans and only let her seek you out if she has something she wants to say to you.

You will find that if you do the legwork to get her back that in the end you will not end up feeling wanted and loved if you somehow are able to R in the end.

She is the one that has made the choice to run away for a man on the other end of an internet connection. She had a real man right in front of her and that wasn’t good enough for her. No she felt the fantasy man (some loser who has to meet married women thru gaming) was the right choice for her.

The best way to feel proud of yourself is to live a good true life going forward. Improve yourself and self confidence.

However, if you are hell bent in meeting with her when you travel, I would only at the minimum send a short message saying I’ll be at my meetings but will be available on X day at Y time. And provide only a 3 hour window in which to meet.

And then say nothing more. If she responds then meet some place quiet but in public. If she doesn’t respond then move on and work things through the lawyer.

Also, you should meet with a lawyer before you go so you have an understanding of how it will work if you decide to D. Knowledge is power. So have a first session with a couple and choose one to work with before you go so you can be ready to pull the trigger if things don’t go as you hope.

Finally, and this is important. If she somehow says she realized her mistake, feels awful how she treated you, wants to try again and is very sorry you need to know you are still MILES away from R. Not even close.

She will be hoping to rig sweep and go back to what she was doing before. But the truth is, now that she has betrayed and cheated, you will NEVER feel comfortable with her being online again.

This guy was literally 1 in a million. She has years of boundary work to do in therapy in order to make you feel safe. And that starts with eliminating online gaming and her streaming presence from her life.

Do you really think she will agree to that just to make you feel safe in your relationship? I would say there’s probably a 1 in 10 chance at best. But honest that is really what your going to need to not live a life of always wondering when she’s going to drop a new betrayal on you.

In addition it’s not just NC, IC and MC that you will need. It’s manynof the other things in the list of 30 recommended actions I PM’d you that you need to see from her to heal you and your M. That’s a tall order.

So while I know I’m being debbie downer, I want you to think about reality.

Sure, give her a chance to see you and communicate. I’d almost lay a bet she doesn’t show. But if she does, and she happens to ask for another chance, know that the work you both have ahead of you the years to come will be what really shows you how possible R will be.

In the meantime, every day the pain will subside a tiny bit. Push yourself to keep getting out and meeting the world of people who are out there. I promise there’s another “soulmate” out there for you. One that’s not still a child in how she behaves.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 8:25 PM, October 4th (Thursday)]

Thank you Steve. I agree it'll be a tall order for her to give up streaming. The chances of her wanting R are one in a million anyway. I'm just about to finish at the gym. I don't feel good but at least I got to work out. I have a lawyer already and know my rights and what it means to file. I'm just not ready. I'm just sitting here cooling off looking at my ring and just wondering. Why do I value the marriage so much to even fathom R? Why do I care for her so much after what she did? I just can't answer that. Maybe I'm a good person, maybe I'm just a weakling.

EDIT - Steve I don't see the 30 things you pm'd me.

[This message edited by Falc at 8:47 PM, October 4th (Thursday)]

Please do not think I want you to divorce. I want you to get out of infidelity. There are two ways possible. One is divorce and the other is reconciliation. Reconciliation has been taken off the table in my eyes and your wayward wife is not worthy of such a gift if it was on the table. She must do the work to become a safe spouse. Right now she is not one.

Therefore, my advice is directed at the following:

1. I want you to heal and be restored to the best person possible.

2. I do not want you to endure additional manipulation and lies.

3. I want you to make decisions based on your best interests that reflect what has transpired and reflects the truth.

4. I want you to do an honest appraisal of your wayward wife and base your actions on who and what she really is.

5. I want you to get your mother's ring back if your wayward wife does not return very soon. She does not deserve to have a heirloom in her possession.

6. I want you to do exactly as you wish based upon your desired outcome.

7. I want the future pain and trauma your are likely to face given the choices you are about to make to be as low a level as possible.

8. I want you to preserve as much self esteem and self worth as possible after you have executed your choices.

I get it. I really do. I'm still in the fog. As time passes I'm sure I will see things for what they are. I am just in so much pain, I'm not even sure that I could cause myself more pain. I feel a little better after the gym. But my thoughts will return. I really appreciate the harsh and up front advice. You guys don't pull any punches and I'm grateful for it as I work through this devastation.

JMO, separation is NEVER for time to figure things out, it is to free themselves up for other person without your intrusion.

Falc, it's hard to heal the pain when you are all alone. Diverting your attention could help like being with your close friends. Go out there and have fun! Yes, you'll be reminded of her once again if you are alone but you'll eventually get used to it. I know she would be very happy because she is finally free from you and she could continue their affair. So why not do the same? Do the things that would make you happy because you deserve to be.

Why do I value the marriage so much to even fathom R?

Your WW started detaching a long time ago. This is not because of anything you did or said this is because she is broken. You don't know that this is the first person she flirted with online, or her first emotional affair. The problem with the online(gaming) affair is that gaming is such an addiction for some people, we always say that the WS needs to quit their job it they were having an affair with a Coworker. With gaming there is a whole internet of people out there and if they cross the line to sending nude pics/video, sexting... it's so hard to get them to stop. It's hard to get them to give up their hobby when it's a way of life for them and it's hard for the BS to ever feel safe.

The gist of this is that she started detaching a long time ago.

I’m going to ask some grim questions…

You have two professional therapists guiding you.

I put a question mark to why two? Do they know of each other? Do they coordinate? Are they both dealing with the same issues?

Is one or both addressing your marital issues directly or is the suggestion to wait and see a side-product of the sessions?

What if the two PROFESSIONALS offer contradicting advice?

How come – despite having two professionals that are charging by the hour – you also use a forum?

Do you pick-and-choose what advice you follow?

If therapist 1 says A, therapist 2 says B and the forum offers C, D and E then do you follow the advice that fits best with what you WANT, or do you follow the advice based on what you NEED?

Frankly Falc – Everything you needed to EITHER save your marriage OR move on yourself has been written on page 5 of this thread.

I do want to warn you that in the eyes of the law you are still married and therefore what the law sees as marital transactions are still in both your names. Definitely get legal confirmation on this but theoretically any debt she enters could end up half on your plate. Get that? You could be paying for half the plane-ticket, half the hotel and half the meal when she goes see OM. Please Falc – try as you can to take off the emotional-tinted glasses and look at your situation from a position of reality.

I AM NOT posting this to belittle or hurt you. If I was physically near you I would be taking you aside, making sure I had eye-contact and had one arm on your shoulder while I – as gently BUT AS FIRMLY as I could – told you the exact same. I realize it hurts. WE ALL DO! And very few of us are telling you to leave her no matter what. We are telling you to understand what she is saying BOTH with her words AND her ACTIONS and to react in accordance.

I just am getting so much from every direction.

I experienced the same thing. My thing was that I had questions to which my WW refused answers. She told me there was no point in rehashing the past. The A was over and she wanted to move on and work on our marriage. The counselor that we were seeing at the time told me that I just needed to forgive and forget. Getting answers, he asserted, would only give me more on which to ruminate and keep me up at night. We went to see another counselor a week before DDay#2 arrived and I was told by him that his 30 years of experience told him that he felt the risk of her ever cheating again was very slight. After DDay#2 we met with another counselor who concluded that I'd been smothering her and that's why she cheated again. My point is that I am convinced that the majority of mental health care professionals are woefully lacking in experience with infidelity and the research on the subject is laughable. I would trust the collective experience and knowledge of the veterans here much more than the handful of counselors I've consulted.

You're seeking the perfect path on which to embark. That perfect path and the wife you married have one thing in common: They don't exist.

Your best-case scenario is one that includes your self-respect and an absence of infidelity. The longer you delay in filing, the longer you must wait for both. Pull the trigger and begin your new life.

Strength, brother!

Looks like she got her PC finally. She's streaming at 12 noon, playing with him.

Falc why are you doing this to yourself ? you see where her mind is, you're WW is gone, just file for D and have her served where she is without warning and don't look back, D takes a long time so start your path out of infidelity TODAY and IF she comes around before it's final and shows true remorse, commits to NC FOREVER with OM and does the heavy lifting to become a safe partner, then and only then at that time should you consider stopping the process and try to R.

You're not even plan B to her at this point, please stop "pain shopping" by keeping tabs on her and file for D TODAY.

Falc, just stop. You are torturing yourself and she is showing you no mercy. You need to take better care of yourself and leave this ugly chapter behind.

Thank you for the hard advice. I don't think I'll be able to live with myself if I didn't give her a month like we talked about. I can still respect myself if I file after my trip. I am not keeping tabs on her on purpose, I got an email notification that she went live on twitch. I just got back from the gym, I am sad to say that working out is helping while in the moment. But after I am home, my thoughts come crawling back. I am heading out to eat with my Dad and Grandma. I am trying my best to detach, you all have been through it. I am trying I promise, it's just fucking hard and I'm wavering and I come here for support. Thank you again, I will keep posting.

If you have room in your home for a heavy bag, get one. It's great for getting out your frustrations in a constructive way.

As an older guy you should know she is easily replaced with someone much better in every way. I know you are hurting now but in a short while (time depends on you) she will be a bad memory. Please feel free to tell me in 1 to 3 years if I am wrong.

Wayward spouses are easily replaced especially those that abandon the faithful.

She kicked me out of her Discord chat server. I didn't say anything, just noticed that it wasn't on my server list anymore. I was just there lurking anyway. I sort of expected it I guess, just not sure why. I'm trying not to care, maybe the NC is getting to her and she's getting pissed?

I had dinner with my family tonight, it was good. It's so fucking hard to act like I don't care. NC is very hard, the 180 is very hard. I still care a lot. But man, she has reverted into a child.

[This message edited by Falc at 1:24 AM, October 6th (Saturday)]