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I am not specifically talking about NC. Moreso, I am talking about overall being vindictive or angry towards her.

If you're going to go NC, how's she going to know? You can be pissed and angry towards her to your heart's content. She's never going to know.

I gotta tell ya, no one here, that I’ve seen, me included, has said to be angry, vindictive or treat her like shit (which is how she is treating you btw)

We are just saying “don’t treat her at all”

Listen to her words. She’s only blaming you now. It’s not productive to engage.

If your IC is telling you to keep the line of communication open, then ask him what you should be saying to her. It shouldn’t be agreeing with her that you were an awful husband. It shouldn’t be just agreeing with everything she wants (like you paying for her to continue to have an A).

It should only be “I’m willing to work on the marriage, but not while you are still involved with someone else”. And that’s it.

In my opinion she’s trying to keep you around to pay for things but she has no Intention of ever working on the M. Just stringing you along.

Please don’t let that happen.

No contact and the 180 isn't to be mean to her

It's for you, so you can break out of this codependent hold she has over you

[This message edited by Gutpunch at 1:08 PM, October 17th (Wednesday)]

She just got a decent job so I don't believe she's keeping me around to pay for things.

No matter what you do... you are going to be thought of being vindictive. She has conceived this notion of you you being an abuser so to make her poor decisions to engage in an EA.

Time to own the thoughts of you. Look out for you. Stop thinking about her and think of you. She is costing you money creating her own life without you and sticking you with all the marriage responsibilities to deal with. As others have said before. Have her served D papers. IF SHE COMES OUT OF HER FOG AND WANTS TO HEAL THE MARRIAGE , SHE WILL APPROACH YOU. You then look at her actions to see if she a candidate for R.

Your spiralling in action paralice. Afraid to pull the trigger.though love time... MAN UP and do what is best for you to heal. Serve her and go NC til she reaches out to you.

Well, she reached out to me asking when I was going to be in town. Haven't responded yet.

What you see as you being respectful and gracious, she sees it as weakness and you being a doormat.

She already fears me (manipulative, abusive, vindictive)

Falc, only going on what you have provided throughout your ordeal, I think you are mistaken if you think she fears you. She does not fear you or your so called manipulative, abusive, vindictive behaviors. These accusations are her master level of manipulation. And rather than fear you, she knows she is winning the battle. Your comment above implies you have some level of belief that she has an authentic and genuine basis for her accusations. Her gaslighting is making you weaker and her stronger. She is influencing you.

In another post you acknowledge not knowing why you are being weak and unable to be decisive. She is not your problem for now. You need to focus in IC why is is about you that leaves you unable to do what you know you wish you could. That is the thing you can control. Nothing about her is controllable or authentic at this point.

[This message edited by DIFM at 2:41 PM, October 17th (Wednesday)]

Well, she reached out to me asking when I was going to be in town.

Be careful if you meet with her Falc. Meet in a public place if you must. I know you have been given conflicting advice about whether to remain NC or not. Some people say to break NC for a final "do you want to reconcile or not" and to get your mom's ring back if the answer is "no" or "I don't know". I prefer NC because it seems obvious to me that she's done... she got a new job far away from you and won't give up her AP. But I understand about needing closure and wanting the ring back.

If she wants to meet in person, ask her what she hopes to accomplish by meeting with you in person. If it's not to get closure or to give the ring back, seems like it would be pointless drama.

[This message edited by LizM at 2:58 PM, October 17th (Wednesday)]

She wants to meet him to give him the ole I wanted to work on things until you acted "insert blameshift here" but now i just don't know speech.

She wants to meet him to give him the ole I wanted to work on things until you acted "insert blameshift here" but now i just don't know speech.

Yep, and re-load on attention kibbles.

Or she wants to meet him so she can say he became physical,so she can continue with the narrative that he's controlling,abusive,etc. People are finding out what she's done,and she has a desperate need to make him the bad guy.

My feelings on the meeting.

1. I tell her I don't know if I want to R.

2. I tell her I don't want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me.

3. If she says she wants to be with me (which she won't, let's be real), I lay out my boundaries - proven NC with OM, IC for her, MC for us and honesty.

4. If she wants D, get my Mom's ring.

She already knows all of that. Telling her again just makes you look desperate.

Tell her you will meet her at McDonald's so you can get your mom's ring. That's it. If she wants to try to reconcile then she will say so. Then come here for advice.

Stop begging her. Every time you tell her how you feel and what you want, she knows she has you right where she wants you. And she uses those feelings to abuse you.

Prepare yourself for “I need more time”. Equals fence sitting, keeping you hanging while she sees if things will workout with OM. Don’t play that game, treat it as a NO, get your ring back and leave.

4. If she wants D, get my Mom's ring.

You forgot choice 5: If she gives you a bunch of bullshit, take the ring and file D.

I am making no qualms about it, I fully expect me meeting her to end in D. I have a lot of anxiety today, I am struggling to concentrate. I just have flashes of thoughts in my head about what she will say, and I get scared and I feel a pit in my stomach. I saw on someone's profile, "be strong, even when it breaks your heart". I think that rings true for my situation as I am having a hard time getting angry.

I am really getting out of my shell though, I am meeting a lot of new people. I was talking to a few people at the gym for about an hour last night. It's crazy how many people have been cheated on. It makes me terrified that I will never find someone who will be faithful.

You are not strong enough to meet her right now.

Do not meet her!

Mark my words.

Nothing good will come out of this meeting.

BTDT

Falc

Have been busy so I haven’t been able to reply sooner.

Let’s be clear on one thing: I would never call you weak. You are dealing with a terrible and tough situation and OF COURSE you are afraid. I totally get that. But I would prefer if you acknowledge your fear rather than hide it behind illogical logic and faulty reasoning.

You make claims that you don’t want to file because you fear she might think you are manipulative or controlling. Real reason? You fear the marriage might be over…

The difference? Once you acknowledge what you fear you can start work on overcoming it.

It’s like if you stand at the front door of your home and see smoke coming from under the door, the door is hot to the touch and you hesitate to open it and confirming the home is on fire. No matter how long you wait it won’t change the fact that MAYBE and PROBABLY your home is on fire. Won’t change that you can’t do anything about it unless you open the door and see what you are dealing with. Might be a total blaze but might be a minor fire.

Your outline for the conversation…

No.

I already sent you the four questions that need to be answered.

Address those questions. First one to you, the second to her. The rest for both of you.

The questions basically ONLY need a yes or no answer right now. The details on what concessions you both might have to make is something you could deal with through a MC, but right now you need a CLEAR yes because ANYTHING else is an unclear no.

Get that? A “Yes I would want to be married to you but maybe it won’t work” or anything along that line is a no. A “I need time to decide” is a no.

Being married is a bit like jumping with a parachute. You can’t simply unjump once you leave the plane. You can’t decide to jump elsewhere mid-way down. You can’t decide to go higher or change from a red chute to a blue one.

A bland bday card and a text about a ring? IMHO that’s sending vague messages. THAT is manipulative. Heck… even the focus on the ring is an excuse. Part of a formal divorce settlement is the division of assets. If she refuses to return the ring willingly then deal with it at that point IF THIS GOES THAT FAR!!! But worrying about the ring or not making progress because of a ring or even focusing on the ring… It’s not realistic and it’s only an excuse for inaction.

Is demanding commitment to a marriage manipulative? Are you manipulative? I know she claims you are but did those claims start before or after she started talking to OM?

Personally, I don’t see anything manipulative in asking a wife if she wants to remain married. Not even if the condition for accepting her “yes” is to comply with expected marital behavior such as fidelity.

Falk – Notice I never – not once – tell you to divorce. What I do tell you is to act. That action will cause a reaction and I want you to act with logic and sense to that reaction. That might be divorce IF she has the guts to tell you it’s over, it might be divorce if she can’t tell you she wants to remain married (and thereby really telling you she doesn’t want to be married). But it could ALSO be reconciliation. It’s forcing an issue. An issue that’s like a boil or a cancer that needs to be dealt with before it explodes.

Bigger, you are correct. I am afraid that my marriage is over and that is why I don't want to D. I also don't want to D because I love her. As for the questions:

#1 Do YOU want to be married to her?

#2 Does SHE want to be married to you?

#3 Do you BOTH have the same vision or concept on what being married is?

#4 Are you BOTH willing to commit to that joint vision?

1 is a yes. What do you exactly mean by 3?