SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

The worst advice EVER offered here on SI tends to be legal advice. Including anything I say on legal issues. What I can tell you with some certainty is this though: If you owe 600k on the house, one car is worth 10k and another 15k then basically you BOTH have assets of 25k and debts of 600k. Each one of you should leave the marriage with about 290k in debt…

Keep that in mind before going all White Knight, alas I will shoulder all the burden…

At that sit-down when you two thrashes out Q #1 and #2 and IF she doesn’t give a positive answer then all you do is ask something along the lines I already suggested. You don’t ask her to sign anything, don’t mention how to divide the assets or who gets the Dodge and who gets the Ford. That’s just details, and you are too emotionally attached to this marriage for details.

Your lawyer said that you would be paying support?

Did they add the 7.5 years you were together to the very short 2 year marriage to get you on the hook? I thought that 9 or 10 years in CA was the magic number to be considered a longterm marriage. But maybe there are other rules.

Sell the house, in CA it's prolly gone up 15% since you bought it. You may each walk away with a tiny bit of cash.

Quick Google search gave me this for CA Spousal Support:

The duration of support depends on in part on the length of the marriage. For marriages lasting less than ten years, the length of support is presumed to be equal to one-half of the time. For example, for a marriage that lasted eight years, the presumption is that the appropriate length of support is four years.

You aren't going to pay long if you have to pay at all. You have debt on the house but that is balanced against an asset. Is it worth more than what you owe on it. Unfortunately you will likely have to sell it unless you want to keep it and can get a mortgage on your own. Just sell the house, pay off the mortgage. You'll have a year or so of spousal support and then she's gone out of your life completely.

No, just the two years of marriage were put into the formula. I would like to keep the house. It's a good investment and the loan isn't a traditional loan. Basically, when my Mom died last year she had a $2mil life insurance policy on her. That money went into her trust and my Dad, the sole trustee, legally loaned us the money to buy the home with cash. We make payments to the trust every month and we can write off the interest payments for taxes.

Owning a home has been a dream of mine and I can currently afford it myself. With a little re-decorating I can make it my own.

Concerning meeting her. If you choose to do so, then dress up and look good yourself. After my GF (who I was going to ask to marry me) cheated the second time, when I met her to essentially say goodbye, I bought all new clothes and dressed like a freakin’ badass! Make sur e you look good yourself, for you, not for her, honestly, fuck her.

As far as you saying “let’s try and work this out” to her, you know what that makes you? A GOOD GUY. and you should be proud of that.

The problem is, that we’ve been telling you, it’s not going to bring you happiness. It’s not going to make her see the light. It’s only going to let her step all over you.

You can be proud that you tried to save your M and the woman you love, but if she doesn’t want it, it’s not going to work. At some point you will have to take the actions we’ve been recommended. It’s you who will decide how long to let this string out. It will only delay your happiness.

And now for your slap across the face with a 2x4. YOU WILL FIND A LOVIG PERSON TO SHARE YOUR LIFE WITH. It happened to me a year after my lowest point t and it will happen to you.

I thank go every day I didn’t let her come back and set me up for a lifetime of pain. I never would have pursued a relationship with my wife. That would have been a damn shame.

Your WW is not the one woman out there that will capture your heart. As an outsider looking in I can honestly say she’s not the woman for you. Now you need to get to a point where you realize it to.

So go meet with her and then move on. Don’t be so accommodating to her time schedule either. Meet somewhere neutral and in public. If it were me I’d keep a VAR in my pocket. Honestly I don’t trust her and you don’t know her like you think you do anymore.

Good luck.

Falc a young man like you with a 700k home and soon to be worth a million dollars plus a steady income is on the surface a hot commodity for the ladies (I know money is not everything in life but financial stability is a factor many women consider), please dump this cheater and take your time, after you have healed you will be amazed at your options, choose carefully and run at the very first signs past cheating, violence, drugs or alcoholism, there are millions of good women out there and you will soon find a much better woman to share your life with, I know now it probably doesn't feel that way but others here can tell you that things will get much better with time.

Anyone else would have walked away and said 'fuck you' even if they loved the person. I stood in the face of this horrible situation and said 'let's work it out'. Should I be a little proud of that at all?

If you were both trying to save the marriage, yes you can be proud. But from the way she is behaving I see your marriage like a burning house and you standing in the middle trying to find hope because the couch is only mildly charred. Your WW is throwing alcohol and matches around the house and you are thinking that the fact that she isn't using a blowtorch is a sign of hope. You don't look like a brave Knight standing in that burning house, you can't save it while your wife is actively trying to burn it down.

I agree with a previous poster when/if she says she doesn't want the marriage don't become a KISA (knight in shining armor) she needs some consequences for setting the house on fire. I'm not saying to nuclear but make the settlement fair for both of you.

Steve:

You better believe I will be looking good. I've been hitting the gym at least 3-4x a week since she left. I bought some new clothes and shoes, got a new haircut (trying pomade). I've lost over 30 pounds since April, I am down to about 170. Don't worry about the looks department, I have that covered. I used to be in a teeny bopper metalcore band so I know how to look good in tight, fashionable clothes.

Buster:

I hear you dude. When I think of what I can offer someone, the list is pretty long. I know I can find someone else who will probably be better. I am just stuck on her, I have a lot of internal issues that I need to work on in IC before I feel I can find my self confidence again. This is a huge blow to me and I am terrified that I won't find anyone else. I know it's irrational but that is how my mind is working right now.

[This message edited by Falc at 12:43 PM, October 19th (Friday)]

Falc,

I know this concept is hard to adopt but she cheating on you had NOTHING to do with you or someone is better than you. It’s all her, she is the broken, coward, and selfish human being. You obviously had what it’s takes, and good enough if she at one point or another choose you and wanted to be with you. If she said otherwise, rewrite history, saying all these negative things about you, that’s just her selfish mechanism to justify her selfish act in her mind. but for a person that can betray someone they said they loved and given vows to for someone they PRECIEVED to be better, than they will be on a life long journey and will never find happiness. I always was bothered by wanting my cheating spouse to regret what she did, but honestly some people won’t ever regret it, but why depend on a sick persons mind to find our own freedom. Who give a shit if they ever will realize what they did, we just know we don’t have to deal with that person anymore. And as much As how much they hurt us, I rather burden this hurt but one day move on to the next life knowing I was a decent human being. They might never regret their actions but there is always a chance that they will realize the selfish acts they committed and the lives they were willing to destroy for their happiness. At least we hurt now but will never burden that selfish life. Praying for your continued strength.

A couple questions about the advice to ask the wife if she wants to be married.

Has this strategy ever worked out for anyone whose WS isn't making any moves to be together?

Isn't that kind of akin to asking someone who dumped you if they still want to be with you? I feel she should initiate that if she wants it and she would have if she did.

Or is it more for peace of mind so Falc can kill the hope?

Btw Falc, it's perfectly normal for your self-esteem to have taken a hit. It would even if this were a normal breakup situation as the dumpee. This just makes it a whole lot worse.

I think you should only see her when you've realized your worth and are feeling strong. I'd rather you do not see her at all and go complete NC, but since you really want to see her I think now is too soon. Be emotionally ready, looking good, feeling good and keeping your cards close. I don't think until she feels she has lost you is there any hope she is going to come around, so telling her you want to stay married isn't going to work in your favour. Even then, I think you can do better.

[This message edited by strawberrypie at 4:41 PM, October 19th (Friday)]

Well, I will be back there for work next week so next week is pretty much all I have to work with. Not sure I want to tell her I want to stay married, I think the conversation will be more about hearing what she has to say and me reacting to it in an understanding way.

EDIT - Just a thought but almost everyone I see in these forums, their profile is always a different version of 'current in R' or 'heading toward R'.

[This message edited by Falc at 4:47 PM, October 19th (Friday)]

Well if you can hold onto the house and it seems like you because of the unique situation do it. And since the $ came directly thru your family she may have little or no claim. Like an inheritance. But the house is a community property so get some good legal opinions. I stupidly sold the house and I never got back into the CA real estate market.

You know what you want to do (R) and you have made it clear to her but your WW has made it pretty clear that she feels differently.

If you meet let her talk. Don't beg or plead. You keep quiet, one or two word answers. Let the pauses become awkward - most people can't stand the silence and will keep talking. You will find out what she really feels and I bet it is not (R)

Oh I can almost guarantee it's not R. It'll be divorce or I don't know.

Strawberrypie asked:

A couple questions about the advice to ask the wife if she wants to be married.

Has this strategy ever worked out for anyone whose WS isn't making any moves to be together?

Strawberry – we have about 20 pages on this thread with nearly ALL posters suggesting Falc divorces his wife. THAT hasn’t worked too well has it? It hasn’t gotten Falc any closer to any resolution has it?

At least if Falc follows my advice he will be asking some questions. We might have focused on #2 and #3 if his wife wants the marriage, but the most important question is really #1. Does Falc want this marriage?

It does sound like he has been contemplating #1 and unlike his replies when everyone was screaming at him to file then AT LEAST now he’s open for the possibility that HE doesn’t want this marriage. So, after 15+ pages then finally when I get his attention… there is progress…

So yes – these questions have moved betrayed spouses forward.

Wither these questions have saved marriages or led to divorce… to me that’s irrelevant. They get people out of infidelity and that’s what counts.

Hi Bigger. I know I am still thinking irrationally and it's frustrating to everyone offering advice and help. I will definitely ask her the questions. I do still think I want to be married to her as I am not ready to file. I am going to be calm, listen, and not grovel. It doesn't mean I'm not terrified of this meeting. I know it's going to be awful. Everyone wants what is best for me, I know. I am still at the point where I think I will never find anyone, which I know is false. All I can do now is let what will happen, happen. I can still separate myself from her life without filing just yet.

About to board my plane. Sigh. Not looking forward to seeing her Wednesday. Don't worry, if it's anything but yes, I'll be leaving. If there's room for discussion in an 'I don't know' I might stay. But seriously just so tired of feeling like shit.

Look she's had more than enough time. An "I don't know" should not elicit any more discussion beyond asking where she will be to be served. Anything other than an unequivocal "Yes" is a "No" at this point. I'm sorry.

Good luck to you Falc!

I think you will be fine as long as you have practiced all your responses to anything she might throw at you.

I know you have your responses set for if she says she wants D, and for if she says she is willing to try R. Those were good I thought. And your response to "I don't know" will be the same as if she wants D. I think you're ready there.

What will your response be to any attack or accusations she might make? Most people here recommend a generic "I'm sorry you feel that way", and then nothing else...be the gray rock.

Just a thought but almost everyone I see in these forums, their profile is always a different version of 'current in R' or 'heading toward R'.

That's an interesting observation...I think it's because the people who D don't stick around here as long. Their healing tends to be faster because once they D, they just don't have to deal with it as much anymore. Whereas those of us in R, well our cheating spouse is still around all the time and it's something we have to keep dealing with, so we tend to stay here longer and offer more advice. Most of us know what a remorseful spouse who is a good candidate for R looks like and want to reach out when we see a WS who does not appear to be remorseful.

Some tips Falc:

You won’t “solve” anything in one meeting or not even in one week. If you two decide to reconcile then – for now – all that is needed is a commitment and a decision on when she comes home. If you two decide to divorce (or more likely YOU decide to divorce) then this isn’t the time for the details. You leave that to your attorney once you come back home.

True. She makes some statement like “you are too manipulative” or whatever and your stock reply is: “I am sorry that you feel that way. If we were working on our marriage then that is something we should address, but since that’s not happening then there really isn’t a need to go there.”

Don’t argue or be combative. I won’t second the “where do you want to be served” idea although it sounds good… Instead if she says no in any way or form then simply get home and start the divorce process. The documents will be served no matter what.

You won’t argue or reason her to say yes. All you can do is listen to her answers and if she has REASONABLE concerns then maybe address them. What would be a reasonable concern? If she were to say “I don’t know if you can ever forgive me” or “I am afraid of what lies ahead” or something like that. But at the end of the day – if she doesn’t give a unequivocal unconditional positive answer then YOU have your “no”.

Thank you all. I'm not expecting anything to come from the meeting. It'll be hard to see her but she's working that day at the sandwich shop so at least I'll look better than she does. I plan to not be combative and no matter what I will stay calm. Thank you for the kind and understanding words. I'll keep you all posted.