SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Also, to turn your own point around, why didn't you 'walk on by' ff, when you felt what people was saying was wrong? I don't think you would have changed their minds or their actions at all, yet you felt compelled to say you disagreed. Same as what's happening here.

Onthefence

FF is pissed because he didn't win any brownie points. Plain and simple.

Yeah that’s exactly it.

Hellfire

I’ve never said that I absolutely 100 percent would never tell. I’ve said I do not envision a scenario where I would tell but I cannot rule it out. I learned long ago not to speak in absolutes and won’t do it now.

Debravation

Actually that’s not the same at all. The disagreement you’re referring to having nothing to do with the OP. Had I said I think everyone who hasn’t confessed shouldn’t, then you would be correct.

I probably should have said it in the OP but my whole intent was to share my experience and see if others had similar occurances in their life. Upon reflection, it probably wouldn’t have made any difference given the history.

It was the disagreement you had with people at work who thought it was no big deal, that I was referring to. Your OP is what I am referring to.

Not defending him but I don't get the point of the continual nasty responses to his posts. I don't think it helps.

I admit, he tests my patience.

But I am trying to help. I don't see how patting him on the head, and telling him he's doing good,and is growing as a person, while he continues to look his wife in the eye and lie, is helping. But,then, I'm not a WS,so I don't understand. Like this of you who are WS don't really understand why we have been trying so very hard to get him to confess..to SAVE his marriage, not lose it.

I also wonder if your opinion isn't a bit biased,pink. Your reconciliation is, unfortunately, not going well. Maybe you wish your husband never found out, so you have more empathy for FF. Whereas, there are several BS who caught their WS, so we have more empathy for his wife.

It's clear he doesn't want my input, so I will stop offering it. He can continue to lie,and wonder why he's not feeling better.

When,if, his wife finds out, if she shows up in the JFO forum, we will help her.

[This message edited by HellFire at 5:31 PM, November 11th (Sunday)]

Does it ever occur to you that you sound really hypocritical? I speak of you coming down on other people for doing what you admit to doing yourself. Don't fall off that high horse you seem to be on.

FF. I didn’t tell my BH for 8 years. Until I had a second A. My ability to “get away with it” and whtieknuckle my deep-seated Wayward tendencies led to another affair. I never did the “work” as we say here. Not until later.

Good chance your BS will find out at some point even if you don’t choose to tell her. These things have a way of coming out.

Regarding your original comments to the guys talking about cheating....while your comments are well-intentioned, they are hypocritical. You can’t be self-righteous about cheating and have not been honest yourself. You had an A an got away with it...so far. I doubt your off hand comment to these guys made any impact based on the way you described it and they probably just rolled their eyes when you left.

Your comments would have had real weight if you had told them your story. Of course, I would understand who would want to expose themselves in that way. I wouldn’t either. Work is work and probably not a great idea to admit to being a cheater just to make a point. I wouldnt either.

However, I would feel kind of out of line giving advice, knowing I was still lying by non-disclosure. Didn’t you feel a twinge if guilt? Or did you feel that this veiled comment to these fellows maybe slightly redeems you.

The truth is not just for your BS. It is for you. It’s hard to live with the truth, not matter how good we are at compartmentalization. Been there. Done that.

I think ff tells himself he will do all the “work “ now and in the off chance his wife finds out he can say “ but look at the work I have done. I am not the same man”. He doesn’t understand DDay will put her smack back to when the affair was in full swing regardless of how far he has come. He will unfortunately he that there was no easy way out of the affair. If his emotions could be so easily controlled and he could be so objective it wouldn’t have happened in the first place.

Hellfire

But I am trying to help. I don't see how patting him on the head, and telling him he's doing good,and is growing as a person, while he continues to look his wife in the eye and lie, is helping

By your own admission, you have been replying to my posts as if I was never ever going to confess. I've been pretty consistent in saying that I am not going to right now. So again I ask, how is it helping me to constantly harangue me about it? Do you really think that derailing my threads into a you must confess tirade is going to motivate me to do so? Honestly, I don't get it.

I am not even arguing the point on whether confessing is right or wrong. Believe it or not, I see both sides of the argument. I will further admit that I struggle mightily with this every single day. That being said, constantly beating me over the head is counter productive.

I don't see how patting him on the head, and telling him he's doing good,and is growing as a person, while he continues to look his wife in the eye and lie, is helping

I have never once hoped for a "pat on the head". I have also never wanted a free pass for what I've done. My presence here after two years of this attests to that. The fact that I still start threads in the vain hope that people will stay on point and just respond to OP. Perhaps I am an eternal optimist or just plain stupid, only time will tell. But I am still here, trying to learn and grow.

MrsPanda

.while your comments are well-intentioned, they are hypocritical. You can’t be self-righteous about cheating and have not been honest yourself. You had an A an got away with it...so far. I doubt your off hand comment to these guys made any impact based on the way you described it and they probably just rolled their eyes when you left.

I suppose in terms of being hypocritical, no WS has the right to be critical of someone else cheating. Suppose I was an alcoholic and got sober, would I have the right to be critical of another alcoholic? I know some will say that "well in that scenario, you stopped your drinking but by not confessing, you're still cheating." I do not agree. I now see how disgusting infidelity is so I said something about it.

I agree, the eye-rolling probably stopped the moment I walked away. In hindsight, I'm sure that my statements accomplished nothing but maybe they gave someone at that table pause.

Thanksgiving

I think ff tells himself he will do all the “work “ now and in the off chance his wife finds out he can say “ but look at the work I have done. I am not the same man”

So you can read my mind?

I'm doing the work because it needs to be done. If my wife finds out, she is not going to give a shit about all the work I've done.

FF -

Yeah - WTF is wrong with people?

I am glad that you spoke up but I do not believe that you could counsel because you do not actually know the fallout of an A. You’ve read it but you cannot impart on them true wisdom because you have never experienced it.

You could only tell them how bad and guilty it makes you feel and what you have decided to do - let your BS and family live in your lie.

You were in NO position to say more than you did.

Had you - they may have asked the questions you do not like to answer or to tell. You would’ve just reinforced that if you have an affair - never tell and there will be no collateral damage.

I can’t believe how many people accept “you NOT being honest” and I cannot believe how high on your horse you ride with that decision and I cannot believe that you have the audacity to ask “WTF is wrong with people”.

It’s truly like you “poke the bear” with these posts for attention!

Thislife

There is no high horse here. I simply stated how I felt.

Actually I do know what it’s like to be a BS (well BBF). I was in a LTR before meeting my wife and she basically cheated throughout so please spare me your indignation. I stupidly chose to forget the pain of betrayal and went and had an A anyway but that’s a topic for another discussion. I suggest you get off your high horse and stop making assumptions about me when you clearly know nothing about me.

You’re NOT worth “it” to me to continue this discussion.

Carry on your wayward way!

I don't know the details of FF's as yet undiscovered affair, but if anyone in that room knew he was an unconfessed cheater, I suppose they eye rolled him just like everyone here does, and anyone who did so would be justified in so doing.

ON TOPIC: Respect the original posters' intent and avoid threadjacking. Feel free to start new topics to discuss general subject matter in other threads, but do not refer to specific topics or threads outside of their original location.

Please stop threadjacking ff's posts. If you find yourself triggered by his situation, please step away.

Until you experience infidelity people don’t know the significant damage and pain it really cause to a person and the M. This is one of those things people just don’t understand until they see it first hand. I think part of the reason why you wanted to say something to them was because your trying to do something through others that you can’t do for yourself Sometimes we live through other people wishing we can be this “brave” in real life. It’s always easlier to say then it is to do.

You also talked about the SO in this. Do you think it was not fair that the two had an A, got away with it and now their SO is left alone to deal with a D that they have no idea why? Do you think she was owed an explanation why her H filed for D? Like her life is a lie right now?

Why do you think you had more compassion for another BS then your own BS, your wife?

Your story is that you stop the A on your own but your wife don’t know. They D their SO to be with each other. No one is actively cheating as we speak, but you guys are still cheaters that are getting away with it. Why do you think you were so harsh on them?

I understand why you wanted to address “the no big deal” comment. But why bring their SO in this when your wife is also left in the dark also?

How would you feel if someone out there knew what you did, like your AP and she was not out there telling people or someone she had a A with a MM and his wife has no idea and they were acting if this was no big deal? They were laughing that the SO didn’t know, or no big deal but this is your wife.

He doesn’t understand DDay will put her smack back to when the affair was in full swing regardless of how far he has come.

I can attest that it will put him smack back to the beginning as well. He will be that man. That liar. That manipulator. That cheater. None of this work will matter except that he will not be actively missing his AP. Of course his wife will not know that. He will be just like all of us in the beginning just someone that values and knows what a good thing he has that he risked. He will not be able to say I am not that man, because as a manipulator and cheating your wife out her rights- you still are. At least that is my experience from a wayward that chose to TT 18months after Dday. So, choosing to not tell is no different if not worse IMO.

I just don't get it and maybe this is a good thing. How can you do work and change yet still be a deceitful person? Is it really doing work? Has anything really gotten better or has it just been covered over with a pretty new coat of paint? I just don't see the growth. All I see is a man out of his fog for his AP. I just see nothing but deceit. How can a person possibly build off of that foundation. It just seems like a waste of time building on the same set of issues we all have built off of until we choose to go beyond the foundation and really clean it. Just continue to pass the time till death building on quicksand a house of lies. That isn't growth to me. That isn't even building. It is just unhealthy and wrong to manipulate, deceive, and lie. It makes no sense that a person can grow in that. I think when she does find out, you are going to look back on all this and you will realize like any wayward that has TT that your growth really never began till the truth was laid bare.

I guess my biggest question is - Is there really growth?

Um, read the administrator's post.

ff, nothing you ever say or do is going to change the minds of some people. Save your breath.

I pass no judgement and trust that you are dealing with your own situation the best way you can and that you come here to learn so you'll be prepared should your DDay ever happen.

As far as what happened at your workplace, that mindset is the one that haunts me the most: everyone just thinking it was no big deal because now they're married. It doesn't matter if Josie is curled up in a ball at home, unable to function on any level anymore. What matters is that true love found its way and I know that in time, this is exactly what will happen with my XWH and there's not a thing I can do about it. And I know that he knows it's just a matter of time until he's the Golden Boy once again.

When that happens, I might be up off the floor but I'll still be dead inside. Not to mention the financial impact it all had on me while he's set to inherit millions that he'll use to show her a good life.

I'm glad you spoke up and even though it didn't go well, all you can do is hope that one tidbit will stay in someone's mind and be useful to them in the future.

Someone mentioned movies and tv shows glorifying adultery.

The movie and TV industry is in business to make a profit. This is capitalism and that is the reality. I'm not saying that's good or bad, I'm saying that's the fact.

Therefore, the TV and movie industry produces things the public will pay money for. It reflects what the public asks for.

It doesn't influence the public. Quite the contrary, the public influences what gets produced and shown.

A whole lot of people don't believe adultery is anything bad. A whole lot of people might believe it's a mistake but sort of the "get up and brush the dirt off your rear end" kind of thing.

If society viewed adultery negatively enough to not do it or to speak out against it, the statistics surrounding the percentage of marriages that suffer infidelity would be far different than they are.

And that will continue to get worse until those people who think it's wrong to start speaking out against it.

nscale56

Um, read the administrator's post.

Come hell or high water, some are determined to get their "point" across.

josiep

ff, nothing you ever say or do is going to change the minds of some people. Save your breath.

You're absolutely right. I suppose I'm a slow learner but I guess I foolishly hope that people would accept that this is my position on things right now. I'm not asking anyone to agree with it; at the same time I have a right to expect the same courtesy afforded other posters here in that the responses are in line with the OP. Clearly, many are unable or unwilling to do that.

I pass no judgement and trust that you are dealing with your own situation the best way you can and that you come here to learn so you'll be prepared should your DDay ever happen.

Thank you.

One of the things that I've spent some time thinking about since reading your response, was my attitude towards affairs. When it happened to me in my first LTR, I can recall how awful it made me feel. How I was a doormat through the majority of the relationship. I think that trauma from that had long lasting effects that I still deal with to this day. Did that have any influence into my decision to have an A? Maybe.

I think the events from that first relationship gave me the tools necessary to better detach and compartmentalize my feelings from people. It may have been the idea of "I'm not gonna let anyone get over on me like my ex did". Unfortunately what I didn't take into account was in the first LTR, there were two very broken people in that relationship. While in my marriage, there was only one. As such, I didn't really have an overall negative feeling about affairs. It was like, yeah they suck but its not that big of a deal.

It wasn't until I came to SI did I start to realize the real impact of infidelity. The awful stories posted here cast a very harsh light on how big of a deal infidelity really is. It's not the bullshit image you see on TV or in the movies. The pain felt here is real and palpable. Listening to those idiots in the break room was making me sick. Unfortunately as many people have pointed out, unless you've experienced it, you're never gonna get it.