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This past week has been more than difficult. A getaway weekend from hell, and a long time friend of WH suddenly passed in his sleep the other night. We are attending the wake this evening.

The trip I will leave for another post as there's too much to go into.

His friends passing. Tomorrow will be 3 years since my estranged brother passed away. We knew it was coming, his liver was bad due to years of substance abuse, which caused the estrangement. Nonetheless it was the loss of a family member. Two days before he passed my daughter and I walked into my mom's apartment to find them saying goodbye to each other. His appearance was shocking as I had not seen him in a while. He literally looked like a skeleton with a layer of skin. It was a shock and very jarring. The whole scene was surreal. Somehow both maintained their composer as they hugged. I stood there along with my daughter speechless.

He passed 2 days later. When I went to tell WH, he said nothing. No I'm sorry. No "My God your poor mom". Nothing. After a few minutes I got up and went to make a call. After gaining access to the phone records I looked back on that date. He called the MOW about 10 minutes after I told him. I remember screaming at him after DDay asking why it was any of her business. Then the lightbulb went off. I said "Oh, I get it. You were supposed to meet to fuck her that week and thought there was going to be a service and you would be tied up. So you had to tell her. Then when you realized my brother wanted no service and we would simply be scattering his ashes at sea as he requested, you called her back saying you're plans were back on."

I got the deer in the headlights look so I know I was right.

Point is, with all the things that have happened in my life in the past 4 years I have not received any empathy at all. As a fellow SI peep said to me, life has just not given me a break. I desperately need one, but keep chugging along determined to find my way, whatever that may be. So now he has suffered a loss. I listened to him reminisce about his friend and am attending the wake tonight with him.

Truth be told, part of it is for emotional support. I am an empath and it's not in my nature to be a cold hearted bitch. On the other hand, considering the MOW knows a few friends of his from back in the day, she may well have been part of this crowd that hung out together. I had my DD check her FB yesterday to see if she mentioned the passing. I have her blocked. She now has her FB very limited you can only see her profile pics which she changes constantly. The lockdown is curious, perhaps a red flag, but I digress. What she has written on her page was something along the lines of "Life is too short, make the most of it" which I wonder is that a coincidence? I know many OW post all these insightful quotes trying to come across as caring people or is it because she knew the deceased friend? If so, there's a possibility she may be at the wake. I certainly am not asking WH. Not the time. I cannot express how much I want to scream at her that I guess living life to the fullest must mean fucking another woman's husband for years as well as betraying her spouse. Hypocritical bitch.

So to be honest, one main reason I am attending is because of that possibility. I had only met his friend a couple of times as he had his own demons to battle and my WH had distanced himself over the years. I just keep thinking about how he acted 3 years ago. How he said my family was sick for not having a service, despite it being my brother's wishes. How the day after we scattered his ashes at sea, I was yelled at because I had emerged myself in baking cookies to try and distract from the heartbreak I felt for my mom, losing a son, and at Christmas made it worse and dinner wasn't on the table. How the same week he died I found the first of many hidden gifts his bitch MOW had given him.

So my empathy, though I am sorry for the loss of life and for his friend's family, is limited when it comes to my WH. Didn't even say goodnight to him last night. What for? To go sleep alone? Am I a bitch or am I merely reacting to the history of his treatment of me? As I said to my SI peep, I feel this is very indicative of my rapidly changing feelings. I've said I'm going through a transition and to me this is evidence of it.

Told ya you were too nice. 'If you want to matter to me, then show me I matter to you.'

Plus, this could have been resolved years ago if you followed the poo-on-the-floor model. He yells at you over nothing. You drop trough and poop. Then gesture at it and tell him 'that's what i think of [fill in blank]'. This is the purest form of communication. There is no confusion or misunderstanding or misinterpretation.

It's beautiful in a way.

A hard post to read.

A large part of me wants to say your sense of empathy makes him treat you like a door mat as a result. But I'm not so sure that really fits.

What I can say is that you are substantially a better person than he and you don't use people as he does.

As to whether or not you're a bitch, I would vote 'no'. I see a woman who is finally getting sick and tired of being softly abused and used.

I wish I had some words of wisdom but I don't but I at least wanted to send you some thoughts, vibes, good wishes. For strength and peace. You are such a treasure to S.I., to your family and to the world.

NTV

My filter is rapidly disappearing. Things are coming out of my mouth that at one time never would have. Yes, it's an amazing feeling when they do. It's a release.

Thatbpguy

Doormat you say? At one time yes, guilty as charged. Now? Not so much. Not at all.

Again, the filter is coming off.

We were watching something briefly while channel surfing and some show was talking about fighting style. He turns to me and asks me what mine is. Without hesitation, without thinking, I looked at him and said "killing someone". Then turned back to the TV. He didn't say anything. Didn't think he would. What can I say? The devil on my shoulder got the best of me.

Yes, I am reaching a new level. I see him, our marriage, and our "future" much differently. Much.

"Life is too short, make the most of it"

Well that quote sounds familiar...

Life is short. Have an affair.®

Ashley Madison slogan.

I remember when I was a teenager and managed to see some X rated chopped up flicks on Cinemax. A recurring theme on those films was:

"Make the most of today, for tomorrow may never come."

Which, I now see, is code words for, "Do what you want today and don't worry about the consequences (or the afterlife)". This is a requirement to do something like have an affair.

So this AP is still locked in "live for today, damn the consequences". She is still an adulterer in her heart. If my WW would say something like that now I would freak on her. You and I are living the consequences of their "life is short -- live for today" attitude.

MBB I have read your stuff for a while now. If you were ever a doormat, you certainly no longer are, not if your living reflects your writing.

I was a nice guy once. But guess what... Nice guys get their wives fucked by those that are not so nice. Unfortunately, our spouses see us as nice and take advantage of us, so we now have to change who we are to protect ourselves.

What is the difference between a good person who is hurt / sad / angry and a bitter spouse?

I don't know if there is a difference. Is a bitter person made or do they grow up resentful or just thinking that the world is out to get them? How did we end up bitter and how do we stop being so and let it go? I don't know the answer to this.

My wife tells me she misses the old NP5 who was happy. She says she can feel/see the darkness come over me sometimes and is sad that she did that to me. How do you shake it? What must she say or do so that I let go of the bitterness, the distrust, the sadness?

I wonder what your posts would have been like before DDay, had I seen them before on some other forum. I know mine would have been very different.

[This message edited by notperfect5 at 12:40 PM, December 5th (Wednesday)]

Keep telling him like it is. He deserves it IMO.

I’m sorry you have had to suffer such loss. But you know your H is not your “go to” guy.

His loss.

NP5,

It's been a while! How are you? Hanging in I assume.

Yes I was a doormat.

*bows head in shame*

Those days are over. Never mind bitch boots, the inner bitch is coming out. I have long said if I was one to begin with, I would probably have everything I desired. It seems to be that way in life. The good get shit on and those who don't care seem to breeze through.

Though Ashley Madison did not come to mind particularly, it certainly reeked of selfish wayward entitlement. It infuriated me to be honest. I told my daughter I guess her idea of that is fucking another woman's husband. Whether it was alluding to that, or if she did in fact know the deceased or it was a coincidence IDK. I know I'm seeing too many coincidences lately.

The weekend was a whole other story. Needs it's own thread. But it has raised MANY questions in me. About what I want. Who I want, or don't. There are many decisions for me to make. Important ones. I don't want to screw myself over. I need to be careful. But before that he will have to finally give me answers. My new therapist wants him to come in. He will likely balk, but it is a necessity. I need to have the gaps filled in on my marriage. I need answers. If he wants to keep secrets and protect what he had with her, he can go.

I still consider myself a good person, but I've changed. I don't take shit anymore. I don't hesitate to tell someone off if needed. I'm done being too nice. It's not worth it. I don't look at it as being bitter, I see it as being BETTER. People change over time based on life experiences and infidelity is one of the biggest prompts for that change. We have to evolve even if our clueless, remorseless spouses do not.

I had posted once or twice before my actual DDay. But it was close and he knew I was on to him. Had I posted during the years I suspected if I knew of this amazing site, I would have been a wishy washy emotional mess. Not the person I am now. Being that way is what prevented the anger from being unleashed on DDay as it should have been. I believe part of what's happening now in addition to changing feelings is that the anger is bubbling up. I somehow feel it will become a rolling boil if I don't receive the answers I want.

If he can't or won't help me and fill in the gaps of OUR marriage and MY life, then I will have to move forward as if he is not part of the equation.

It's not about being mean NP5, it's about protecting ourselves. We are after all #1, whether our WS's see it or not. ❤

My new therapist wants him to come in.

How is your new therapist, MBB? I know you waited for a long time to get an appointment with her. Is she good? Helping you gain new insights?

Sorry your getaway wasn't good. But I am glad to hear that you are finding your strength.

(((hugs)))

I am smiling a bit in regards to the "Am I a bitch" question. Here is my answer...No F'ing way!

Ooooh MBB,

I REALLY liked the “old” you but I am ABSOLUTELY LOVING the “new and improved” on the “new therapist” MBB who doesn’t take any kind of shit from anyone especially not your WH!!

You go girl!!

I didn’t read all the other posts on purpose. You are not a bitch. I confidently believe that you are an empathetic person by nature. Abuse and neglect can alter that. I think after years of this I have a hard time offering it to my H of all people as he is the least empathetic person I think I’ve ever met and I have lived with that for years. His treatment of you in the past has molded your present attitude. I can look back now and see the times my H truly left me out to dry emotionally.

I watched my Aunt pass away from cancer in my presence. When I came home from the trip he picked a big fight with me in the kitchen. I didn’t understand how he could be so mean at such a hard time for me. When my dad passed away he didn’t even try to understand. I grieved alone. I cried alone. He still had his dad. He wasnt sensitive to it at all. He never talked to me about it.

I could go on but the truth is.......as empathetic as I naturally am with other people...when his grandma passed away and he was all upset I was like ok....all of my grandparents passed away years ago and you didn’t care. my dad passed away and you still have yours etc. You have finally had a loss of your own and I’m supposed to care. I felt horrible for feeling that way but his severe lack of empathy has hardened me toward him.

I hope kit makes you feel better to know that you are not alone on that. It makes me question myself too.

(((((MBB)))))

Always got a hug for you!

I'm tired of being nice, polite, gentle, reasonable. If it doesn't come back in kind, it seems to be a colossal waste of time and energy. I am not to blame for someone else's lack of trying!

We are the sum of our experiences. Up until d-day we thought of ourselves one way, because we had not yet been tainted, soured, spoiled by the inclusion of our partner's filthy lies and cheating. We may have been inoculating ourselves against them, but just like the flu shot, if the infection comes from somewhere we weren't expecting, we weren't protected. So, once kicked we learn quickly to curl up to protect ourselves, and then when we can, to fight back.

Another hug . . . (((MBB)))

JosieP

I wish I had some words of wisdom but I don't

I don't know why, but when I read this line I heard Dolly Parton saying it in Steel Magnolias LOL. Thank you so much for your kind words, they mean more than you know.

OIN

I love her! There's a totally different vibe than with the former therapist. This one actually seems interested. She immediately picked up something was wrong when I walked in her office on Tuesday and I hadn't said a word. I didn't feel good and the weekend was very much on my mind. She knows I am overwhelmed with the holidays and how triggering this time of year is for me. She said after the New Year she is going to work on helping me find a way to work part time, that she likes to push people and I said that's exactly what I want. I wish our sessions were longer, the 45 minutes flies by whereas they would drag with the other therapist. This one was worth the wait, but I do wish I had been a patient of hers from the start. I believe I would have made greater strides sooner.

Every step is one closer towards you and I having those drinks together!

Northeasternarea

I know you are, and thank you!

Hopeful77,

LOL, thank you as well.

LuvsMeLuvsMeNot,

LOL. I haven't reached your level yet by any means, but thank you. I know you fully appreciate and enjoy every bit of progress I make.

Jesusismyanchor

I'm so sorry for your losses and that your WH was nothing short of cold and callous. Why do they love to pick arguments at times of loss and sorrow? I can't even imagine acting that way.

His treatment of you in the past has molded your present His treatment of you in the past has molded your present attitude. I can look back now and see the times my H truly left me out to dry emotionally.

I totally agree with this and can relate. I have been hung out to dry more than a sheet on a clothesline in the desert.

Empathy is ingrained. You either have it or you don't. Yet I see and hear my WH being empathetic to other people. All I can assume is it's something to do with his narcissism. I listened to something the other day about how a narcissist sees marriage. All they feel they need to contribute is going to work and bringing home a paycheck. The wife is left to run the household and take care of the kids, and all that was equated with basically running a small business. There is so much that falls under the umbrella of homemaker, and the narc views you as an employee. Your pay is the bills being paid. You and the kids are props, put there to make them shine. Look what a great parent and spouse I am! All while depriving you of the basic components of a marriage. The AP is the one who gets the relationship, the fun, the excitement.

Last night the wake included a service. Some family members spoke, and when the mother of his friend spoke, I cried. I had never met her. Barely knew this friend of my WH. But to hear a mother verbally trying to express her loss, trying to understand it, asking why, what happened, it was heart breaking. It made me think of my mom losing my brother which was 3 years ago today. Of all the many friends who had contacted my WH over the past few days asking questions, calling, messaging, only 1 showed up. One other sent flowers but lives in the south and wasn't able to make the trip. Others live or work near the funeral home, and didn't show up. Too busy. Or people didn't want to be in rush hour traffic I suppose. It seems many lack empathy these days. They talk a good game but can't be bothered.

No, the MOW was not there. I looked at the many photos put on display and saw none containing her. As my WH, our friend and siblings of his friend spoke, her name never came up in any of their reminiscing. So she either didn't know him or wasn't a big part of anything in their past. And after seeing how she has limited her FB page, I checked my WH's old iPhone which still has FB and Messenger installed and up to date. I checked his friends list and she is not on it.

OneInTheSame

I'm tired of being nice, polite, gentle, reasonable. If it doesn't come back in kind, it seems to be a colossal waste of time and energy.

Yes it does. I'm nice to those who deserve it. The ones who don't see another side. I'm tired of people's selfish nature. No one seems to be accountable for anything and nothing is their fault. No matter what they do, it's never I'm sorry, I was wrong, I dropped the ball, my mistake. Never.

I am so excited to hear about your new therapist. She sounds amazing!!!

You will always have empathy for the people that deserve and need it. That’s just who you are 💖

Malibu, youre reacting to the one sided way things have been. He should have been there for you. Its ok to detach if he isnt changing. Dont change yourself and your caring attitude toward life in general.

MBB,

It's been a while! How are you? Hanging in I assume

Yes hanging in there. Kids are growing, 1st one off to college. Kids seemed to have survived the shit show OK, no thanks to WW.

Seems I'm asymptotically approaching 80% better. Probably will never be more than that. No matter how much money you spend on a wrecked car, it never is quite the same...

Anger is fading mostly. I will be forever astounded at what she did. She was profoundly abusive for years there. At least that is pretty much all cleared up. The trick is to always call out abusive boundary violations on the spot. Calmly and firmly express that what she said / did is abusive and that you will not stand for it. I have taken enough abuse for several lifetimes and I will take no more.

After I state that, I go back to my usual loving and respectful standard self.

Seems like that's about where you are too... maybe trailing me by about a year as I started two years ahead and drug it out so long.

That's why I like reading your stuff. I feel like we are on the same train, but you're a few cars back. Hang in there MBB, be your best self.

NP5

Such great news!

I love her! There's a totally different vibe than with the former therapist. This one actually seems interested.

A good therapist changes lives. I am elated that you have found a good one because the support is amazing. I had never had that kind of quality support from anyone in my life since I attract Takers like a magnet, and I quickly realized the healing power of being heard and understood. I am so very happy for you.

And look, MBB. Let things flow. There is no end game with your H or your brother or anyone else. It's simply time to focus on you--your strength, your peace, your healing, your power. You deserve to put your needs front and center for awhile. I love seeing it.

((((MalibuBayBreeze))))

(((MBB)))

This new version of you is awesome. Filters and being nice and doing everything for everyone isnt all that great.

Being true to yourself and maintaining yourself the number 1 priority is pretty awesome.

You are finding yourself and becoming a new you. Embrace her she is strong wise and deep on there is happy happy lady.

Keep planning. Keep gaining strength.

We are here for you.