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Yes, he was just after a piece of ass. No different than my WW's AP. He didnt want to run away with my WW! She was easy and married, so he gets sex, then sends her on her way. Pathetic.

Listing his name as Jennifer shows intent to conceal, same with deleting text messages. She knew you would have none of this if you found out. The physical stuff is bad, her actions show she knew exactly what she was doing and wanted it.

Oh...and mine is also a nurse...

[This message edited by Jameson1977 at 11:54 PM, December 16th (Sunday)]

Everyone seems hung up on her listing him as "jennifer" in her contacts. I'm more concerned with her going to lunch with and holding hands with a guy that she had met 24 hours earlier.

The reason for this is that this was not her reacting on the spur of the moment to his advances - this was meticulously planned. She had to think about how to keep his number without it raising suspicion. This is a higher level of deceit and betrayal.

You would be wise to poly and check for this type of betrayal before. As others have said the medical profession is rife with this sort of behaviour and nurses get this opportunity all the time (and often act on it thinking they will not be caught). This may not be her first rodeo.

As for going from just met to lets fuck is par for the course in this environment. She just did not think she would be caught.

As for backtracking on being fingered, she probably realised that this is the most damning thing revealed and you do not have any proof of it, hence lets just say it never happened. It was admitted to in a moment of weakness, but now the liar and cheat in her comes out to protect herself.

You need a poly!

Dan, your mental model of your wife and the actual person Mrs. Dan don't match up. This is causing you mental anguish via cognitive dissonance.

Just as a mental exercise, imagine that you were introduced to your wife for the first time. The person introducing you then relates to you that the woman you just met cheated on her husband, her family, and then had the audacity to start Trickle Truthing and just saying the most unreasonable, unbelievable things and swearing that they Were the truth.

Would you then ask that woman out on a date?

The woman you're married to is not the person that you think that she is. Would your best friend stab you in the back like this?

Dan,

Have you asked her:

What did she see happening?

How was she able to come home and look you in the face?

Where she got the idea to call him Jennifer?

What she knows about him?

Why him?

Who knew about them at work? In her private life?

Whether he is the most recent or the first?

Does she understand that you may never trust a word from her lying mouth again?

Does she understand that she just forever changed the way her children view her?

How this could affect her professional reputation given that there is already gossip?

Does she really want the marriage she just broke because short of building a time machine, she cannot fix the way you feel about her and look at her now?

By the way, I cried like a little bitch plenty too.

look, I am just glad you kicked his ass. He deserved it. What a punk.

Had you backed down, he would have moved in even more. What your wife would have done ??? I don't know. She better think about that one.

Hold strong bro. You are doing well.

In the meantime, I would put out word at the hospital of what this guy is before we have 10 more on here like you because of this predator.

Ambivalentone and Nambaster are two great examples of betrayal but don't read until you are ready

Hi Dan

You are getting a lot of good support here. You are also a strong man who has an innate sense of what he will and will not stand for. Even the strongest of BS need people to lean on in the darkest times. I hope you have such a person or persons to support you in real life.

That said, even if you do, I suggest you look this week for an IC to work with one on one. Whether you are headed towards D or R it will be good to have professional support during that process. Find one who specializes in infidelity. Start looking now because they probably won’t be able to see you until after the new year. Add this to your growing list of todos.

I see you are putting together your own list of requirements for your WS. That is good. But as others have said, no matter which way you go, and it will be a while before you know, this is a long road and there will be plenty of time to discuss such things with your wife.

Before you do, I’ve had some thoughts while reading your thread and I want to share them with you. I think you should make some statements to your WW. You know, to make sure you are at least on the same page of how things will be in the near future going forward.

I know you probably have said some of these things to her, and some of them may not resonate with you, so take what you need, if anything, and leave the rest.

Finally, this should not be a discussion, but a relaying if information. So writing it down and sending it, emailing it perhaps, in however she can receive it using her nieces phone is probably best.

So here is my list. I’ll write it in the format of you saying these things to her. I hope it helps.

- your actions have broken my heart. Our marriage will never be the same again. We may or may not have a relationship going forward, or a marriage, but if we do it will be different. If we do, I’d be hopeful we could build a happy one, maybe even a better one, but I am no where near the point of knowing if I can even try for that. Please understand and respect that

- right now i have a lot of information but it’s not clear to me what I’m even looking at. It will take me a good while to even process it. Please allow me this time to gain an understanding for myself what has happened

- from what I do know, it seems this all occurred amazingly quickly. From meeting one day to literally dating the next to sharing emotions the next to having physical contact the next, all within less than a week. That’s quite unbelievable. I don’t believe you didn’t know this man before Dec 3 and this could happen so quickly. You can understand why I don’t trust a thing you say right now and believe you are either lying or holding back truths to somehow protect yourself. Anything you are holding back or lying about only hurts both of us.

- if you knew this man prior to his arrival, either thru inter office communications (voice email etc) before he arrived or even of his reputation from others in your office, you need to reveal that to me. What was the nature of your relationship prior to dec 3.

- the fact that you were able to betray me so quickly is a completely scary thing to me. You must be missing something inside you to make you so easily drop in the gutter 20 years of a loving marriage. And it was NOT the fact that I’d never go to Thai food with you that caused this. This makes me question whether you ever loved me or are/were in love with me. That is something you will have to convince me is not true if we are ever to be together again. That could take years.

- the proper response to not being happy in your marriage is to ask your partner, who has vowed to work to make you happy, for help in fixing what is missing in our marriage. It’s not sticking your tongue down the throat of some French Canadian guy at work and feeling up his junk. No marriage in the world is perfect. There were probably things that I would like to work on in our marriage too but I never once thought it would be helpful to us for me to find some willing coworker and slip my hand up her shirt while telling her my wife doesn’t understand me. I respected you and thought you were one of the smartest people I know. It simultaneously kills me and confounds me how you thought this was ok to do.

- the fact that you were so quickly skillful at hiding this from me and lying to me makes me feel like this is not your first time doing this. Just the fact that you knew to change his name to a woman’s in your contact list shows real premeditation. Right now I am going with in my mind that this was not your first cheating rodeo.

- and that brings me to honesty. Right now you are probably trying to minimize what you have to confess to. Trying to “know what I know” so you don’t reveal anything you don’t want me to know. I want to impress upon you as best I can how wrong of an approach that is. If you want a chance with me, now is the time to reveal everything. If In year 2 of our marriage a man winked at you in the supermarket and you winked back, you need to write that in your timeline. If you had another affair 10 years ago or a ONS, you need to tell me and provide the details. You are currently on the worlds biggest leap of faith, wife, and if you cannot be honest about it, when you land I will be long gone.

- which brings me to the most important point I have. You need to let go of the outcome. We may never be together again. Conversely We may have a long and relatively happy marriage. Neither you nor I know the future right now. I will make absolutely no promises about what the future holds. You need to make the outcome not matter to you because you cannot control it. So let it go and stop trying to control it. You need to simply start doing the right thing. You need to do the right thing from here on out to make you a better you. You need to take steps to fix what broke inside you. You need to take steps to repair the damage you did even if we don’t end up together and you need to take steps to help me heal. And above all, you need to be honest. Even if you think the honesty is going to hurt me more. Because I will not be in another relationship built on lying and cheating. So tell me about the past and what you did wrong. At some point if we decide we can be together I will be open with you too. But I’ve not cheated on you, so this is your time to be as honest as a person can be. No minimizing what you did. Do it because it’s the right thing to do and for no other reason. It will help you no matter what happens to us.

- so that means you need to work on and create a plan, a real written plan, to fix you, repair our family and help me heal. I’m going to give you some advice and counsel, if you haven’t already googled and bought books on how to help your spouse heal and how to repair the damage from your affair and how to set appropriate boundaries with other men you are already behind. There are books and other resources out there to help guide you on this journey, much of which you will be taking on your own. I won’t do the work for you. You have to figure it out for yourself. So start writing up all the things you think should be in this plan. If I decide I can put off Divorce and see if we can try and reconcile then at some point we will review this plan together.

- which brings me to a further point. Having an A is easy. It uses our basest instincts as humans. Raw emotions and physical pleasure combined with raw evil. Repairing the devastation from an A requires almost the exact opposite. It takes intellect and emotional Intelligence, perseverance and true empathy. Those things are less innate then the things I just described to actually perpetuate the infidelity. I don’t expect you to know inside of you exactly how to do those things. But I expect you to actively seek out the help you need to learn and make them happen. Think of it this way. Any one with the mildest coordination can pick up a gun and fire it at my chest, damaging me forever. That same person will most likely have no understanding of how to repair my damaged heart from the wound. But I’d expect them to work their hardest to bring in the emergency personnel and trained professionals to help them save my life. If you want a chance to save us and our family, you’ll do that.

- as far as our living arrangement I will learn more about our rights as I talk to lawyers this week. I probably cannot keep you out of the house. But I do need some separation from you so even if we are under the same roof we will not be sleeping in the same room for a long while. My preference would be for you to have a separate apartment nearby that you can stay in. After a while perhaps we can swap places occasionally so you can parent with the girls. I feel I need space from you right now. And of course that kills me. I miss my wife and the person whom I would run to when I was in such pain. But being near you is not easy for me, so my hope is you can agree with such an arrangement. Of course if you are looking at this as an opportunity to “hook up” with your boyfriend then simply let me know and I will get the divorce papers served to you by Friday. Wife, I must stress to you, although I shouldn’t have to, if you have any communication with that PIECE of SHIT ever again I will end our marriage as soon as I can. If he sends you a text, do not respond and tell me. He should be as blocked from our lives as humanly possible. If you want to pursue a relationship with this man, let me know now and I will free you to do so. If you want a chance for us you will be as transparent as any person can about communication with him. That also includes anyone at your work or outside who knew you were having an inappropriate relationship. Anyone that knew and did not try to stop it needs to be out of our lives forever.

- as I said I want you to have a relationship with our daughters. If we D the time we each spend with them will be negotiated by lawyers. Whether we D or If we stay together you are going to have to work to rebuild how they see you as a mom and relate to you going forward. That is completely up to you. I will encourage them to try their best. However if you at any time try to convince them any of this, your affair, was in any way my fault, I promise you that you will lose my support. I have no problem discussing how two loving people work thru issues in a relationship or marriage. But cheating is always wrong and never the fault of the betrayed spouse, if you try to convince them otherwise we will have a real problem.

- the last thing I can think of to say is this. Your improper contact with another man, your affair, has devastated me. I cannot tell you the pain I am feeling over the fact that you gave your heart and body to someone else. And that if i hadn’t stopped it would have escalated even further Friday night and if i didn’t discover it would still be happening right now. But you may be surprised that your interaction with “Jennifer” isn’t the only aspect that drops me to my knees.

No, one other awful thing is that this was supposed to be a night for us. One that I was looking forward to together. To meeting your new work friends and connecting with you. Instead while I was looking forward to being with you, you were looking forward to being with someone else. So much so that you made me feel bad about attending. You made me feel literally unwanted. You actually tried to trick me into not going, not because you thought I might be unwell as you indicated, but because you wanted to escalate your affair with this man even further. You were completely deceptive. You made me question what I had done wrong to make you not proud to show me off to everyone.

You stole a night that should have been part of the story of our marriage and gave it to someone else. If others there knew about what you and the piece of shit were doing, then you also made me play the fool. You literally made people laugh at me behind my back, or at the very least feel sorry for me. Who did you buy that new sexy dress for? Who did you put on the sexy lingerie under it for? I’m 100% sure it was NOT for me. I know you said that you never promised him that you’d have sex Friday night, but that does not mean it would not have happened if I wasn’t there. How do I recover from that? How do I ever trust that you will not do this to me again?

This is your job in the coming months and years to answer and repair. And you need to do it, again, as a leap of faith, by letting go of the outcome. Whether or not we are ever together again, you need to do this because it will fix what is broken inside you and make you the person I always thought you were.

The wife I knew would take such a challenge head on because it would be the most important thing in the world to her regarding the most important people in the world to her. I have no way of knowing if you are still that person. It will take me a long time to find out.

I hate that we are here. I am trying my best to do what’s best for my family and me. I need you to do the same.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 1:09 AM, December 17th (Monday)]

In all those texts and phone calls what information did she share with him about you and your family?

I am with Dan on the "Jennifer" thing. It does not take coaching or CIA or MI6 levels of spycraft to think of entering a phony name in her contacts list. She did know why she was using a fake name however...to hide her BF in case Dan saw it.

There is one folder on my computer with sensitive files that is named "2016 3Q tax info" an I ain't no spy.

The question is how / why did she go from meeting to flirting to sexting to making out and grabbing his spring roll in like 3 days. Has she done it before is a question she needs to answer.

Either he is one charming motherfucker and can spot the nurse with loose boundaries right off the bat or your WW was ready and willing as he was to get into each others pants.

I bet he can get to a town to do IT work, and in a week find a side piece. I was told once that it's just math. Say there are 25 nurses or teachers he is working with. there will be at least 1 who is willing and able to step up to be his GF, to go to Thai lunch, make out, grope his dick while he fingers her and will try to dump her husband of 20 years to have fun at

the Xmas party. Sadly it was your wife.

She probably did not plan on her, your and your family's world exploding.

[This message edited by MickeyBill2016 at 10:05 AM, December 17th (Monday)]

Dan,

I agree with you 100% about your daughters and the dna tests. It seems pointless to me.

1) Just like your wife's behavior tipped you off that something was up. I think you would have known something was off way before now in regards to their births.

2) Blood doesn't make you family. Those are your daughters....blood or not. I would bet on them being your blood tho.

3) Who in their right mind would just abandon their own children because a test came back saying that someone else was the father? I say own children because it's my understanding that you're the only dad they have ever known. Those girls love you and haven't done anything wrong. Stick to you guns and keep them out of this witch hunt.

[This message edited by TooOldforDrama at 1:50 AM, December 17th (Monday)]

DaninOH,

1,

I told her that I can no longer trust her and that we need to start formal separation at this point. She says that it was just a fantasy that got out of hand .

Do you know what her fantasy was???

2.

OM is in a hotel – now he’s in a house – no it’s the bosses house – boss is in on it…

She needs to resign – now her resignation is an indicator that the affair was deeper than she has shared…

The timeline can’t be correct… It’s fast, but a lot of what we already know supports the timeline might be reasonably accurate.

If she talks to him alone at the party, it’s an affair – if they talk in a group they are all in on it…

She met him in her former job (as if all companies are hiring the same Canadian French IT project manager…)

They must have had sex. No way to avoid that…

It’s ALL SPECULATION at best – unnecessarily making things worse at worst.

Have you asked???

3. The speed that all this happened is beyond comprehension.

Such things: not even Roald Dahl could have thought of such.

Let your WW do the talking.

Best to you and your kids.

Dutchman1

Everyone seems hung up on her listing him as "jennifer" in her contacts. I'm more concerned with her going to lunch with and holding hands with a guy that she had met 24 hours earlier.

This is directly related actually. The reason this seems to have escalated so far, is because they both knew what they wanted out of this and aggressively pursued it from the start. Their first messages make this very clear.

People keep coming back to her listing him as Jennifer, how quickly this escalated, how nobody at work was seemingly surprised an so on for the same reason. All of this together, this entire modus operandi is how an experienced cheater acts not someone who's new at this. A cheater who knows what they were doing and how to go about this but got to sure of themselves.

It's why quite a few people here are telling you that you shouldn'tm just look into this one instance but try and find out if this wasn't merely the first one you found out about.

This isn't meant to tear you down but to warn you and point out some really bad vibes a lot of people here are getting from your wife. As it might lead to just that much more heart ache, wasted time and pain if you find out 5 or 10 years down the road that this was a bottomless hole all along.

BS ONLY

[This message edited by SI Staff at 7:46 PM, May 26th (Sunday)]

Hi, Dan.

New to this thread, but read most of it. Short on time, so just wanted to address several things.

A lot of posters offer lengthy speculations on what and why happened. The problem is that some do not consider what they say a speculation, but a almost proven fact. The truth is, we don't really know. Yes, there are certain patterns that majority of cheaters follow, but details often vary.

There were many suggestions that since your WW went so quickly, she must be serial cheater, it wasn't her first affair, etc., etc.

My WW's first affair started with her talking with AP (COW) in the car about infidelity, that life is short, and that you don't want to miss chances that it provides, and then AP kissing her. There was no lead-up to this. Then there was texting, AP telling WW that she is sexy and he wants her, and then decision to spend a night in the hotel. So, first talk and kiss, then less than in two weeks (no physical contact in between) - straight to fucking in a hotel. This was her first affair. AP was unattractive and not even a "player" (married, teenage son). He just wanted to fuck hot, younger COW. He got it. WW wanted adventure, wanted ego kibbles. Sex was just a part of the package, but she took whole package gladly.

The main thing is - my WW was ready for an affair. She performed all the usual mental gymnastics in her head to convince that it is OK to have one - that I no longer loved her, that she no longer loved me, that she is entitled to have some fun, that A is OK as long as I don't know about it (and I had no fucking idea during her first, very short A, that anything was going on). AP just was there at the "right" time. She didn't look for A, but when opportunity presented itself, she embraced it.

It looks like something similar happened with your WW. And, contrary to opinion of many posters here, I think that your WW acted like a very novice cheater and not a serial "pro" - if she was a pro, you would have not noticed anything weird about her office party behavior.

Good luck on your journey forward! You seem to be handling this rather well for now, but be aware that it might just be a shock and adrenaline. I suggest that you find a good, infidelity trained IC for you ASAP. But be very careful about what you choose - if IC starts asking you how you think you contributed to her decision to cheat - get out right away and find a new one. It might be good idea to interview IC before meeting to find out his/her views on infidelity recovery. Your daughters might need IC too.

[This message edited by DarkHoleHeart at 6:03 AM, December 17th (Monday)]

The main thing is - my WW was ready for an affair. She performed all the usual mental gymnastics in her head to convince that it is OK to have one - that I no longer loved her, that she no longer loved me, that she is entitled to have some fun, that A is OK as long as I don't know about it (and I had no fucking idea during her first, very short A, that anything was going on). AP just was there at the "right" time. She didn't look for A, but when opportunity presented itself, she embraced it.

It looks like something similar happened with your WW. And, contrary to opinion of many posters here, I think that your WW acted like a very novice cheater and not a serial "pro" - if she was a pro, you would have not noticed anything weird about her office party behavior.

Good luck on your journey forward! You seem to be handling this rather well for now, but be aware that it might just be a shock and adrenaline. I suggest that you find a good, infidelity trained IC for you ASAP. But be very careful about what you choose - if IC starts asking you how you think you contributed to her decision to cheat - get out right away and find a new one. It might be good idea to interview IC before meeting to find out his/her views on infidelity recovery. Your daughters might need IC too.

[This message edited by DarkHoleHeart at 6:03 AM, December 17th (Monday)]

DHH, thanks for sharing that. I'm of the same mindset. I would only add that she's in a field which apparently sees a LOT of cheating, that might have affected her belief that she could get away with it. I know that my own H...although we were of course single....and I were a solid couple in ten days, slept together on the second date, and so on. If she was, for whatever reason, looking to cheat, or at least convincing herself that it wouldn't hurt anyone if she did....it's easy for me to believe she'd fall down the rabbit hole that fast. Major boundaries issues but not necessarily a pro. Especially given that the timeline of when she met and when you first noticed her acting differently matches up.

For the record, I don't want to come across as some kinda of wannabe badass. When I first confronted the guy in the parking lot and he came back at me, I thought for a second that maybe I had just made a big mistake.

It ended up in my favor but easily could have gone the other way. Looking back, it was a bad decision on my part. I was crying like a little bitch while driving home.

I’m very glad you are saying this. You are showing more maturity than some of the posters on this thread.

When some other posters re happily cheering you exercising violence on a suspected AP, that, Dan should give you pause.

It fulfills their need for revenge but they may not have your best interest in mind.

You even had an ex-cop ( bigger ) advising you on how to hit a suspected AP and get away with scotch free!

[This message edited by ShutterHappy at 6:31 AM, December 17th (Monday)]

Trust your gut. It's been 1 year for me and I'm still seeing fall out. Just last week I went to get my W a present in another town. I told her I was going to be late coming home. She blew the F up. Accused me of cheating etc...

I went to get the gift anyway. The whole time checking in with phone apps.

2 days after getting the gifts I get a friend request from some cat in the same town I went to pick up the gift.

Is this why she didn't want me going to said town?

If I'm right this would make about the 5 guy I busted in 1 year.

So where does that leave us?

I'm limbo. Trust your gut.

Best of luck

ShutterHappy, no one is advocating violence. Self defence, yes.

If an AP threatens a BS and chests them, then the BS has every right to defend themselves within reason. Too bad this AP underestimates Dan’s ability to serve some justice.

And by the way, an affair is a form of violence on a BS. Just remember that. Unprotected sex is a form of violence on the BS because they could contract STDs. Not suggesting that BS go out and hurt AP’s physically. But if they are threatened by AP physically, they should have every right within a legal framework to defend themselves

Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst...

or maybe turn that around:

Prepare for the worst, but hope for the best.

This was my mantra during my discovery period 4 to 5 months ago.

What is the best-case scenario in this whole sorry episode? Maybe it is still a deal-breaker, but I would encourage you to keep an open mind and hold on to some hope even as you prepare for the worst.

I'm hoping for the best, for you.

Dan, I hope you got some sleep last night. Sleep is very important. If you're having trouble go to your Dr. and get something to help.

Your WW said she didn't promised to have sex at or after the party. I'm sure, given the activities in a very short timeframe, she wouldn't have to. That was a panic statement that provides information. Did she promise to let him finger her? Probably not. You don't have to make a promise to send a message.

Did she tell him she wouldn't have sex at or after the party? That should have been the response to you. Not that she didn't promise to. That response suggests to me that she intended to have sex with him but hadn't promised him that she would. JMO.

Dan, there's re-writing marriage history. There is nothing in your marriage that forced her to commit adultery. There's nothing you did or didn't do. However, that will be the narrative.

That is why you do not do marriage counselling until she has had a lot of IC, has really "done the work", accepts responsibility, has proven through actions she "gets it", is proactive in her and your healing, etc.

Re-writing marital history is usually or often based on fact, IMO. A small disagreement, a little irritant (no thai food (sp?)), a larger disagreement, a "mole hill" is turned into a mountain. They (WS) need to do this because they are "good people" and they need justification for what they have done. Cognitive dissonance.

You were in the same marriage. Was it perfect for you? Did you look for solace elsewhere? This has nothing to do with externalities. It's all internal and all in her and on her. Her decision, her deliberate choice.

By the way, Dan, fetal ball wailing and sobbing way more than once. I'm a pretty tough guy but I cried more tears than the rest of my life combined.

Take care of yourself, Dan. Look after your girls.

Mene,

Can you elaborate on this?

serve some justice

What justice is it ok, and a good idea for him to serve? He doesn’t think it’s a good idea, I don’t either but you think it’s in his best interest to do so. Please explain.

His WW also potentially exposed him to STD, a form of violence. He is only defending himself, so by your logic, it would be a good idea to  serve justice  to his WW right?