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Really happy to see some progress Dan. One day at a time bro. I really hope the best for you.

Duplicate post.

[This message edited by Jameson1977 at 1:48 AM, December 19th (Wednesday)]

Glad to hear there is some progress. Now take a breath for yourself and your girls. Make sure WW follows up with IC but don't put any added stress on yourself.

Edited for my 3 a.m. typos

[This message edited by Happenedtome2 at 2:55 AM, December 19th (Wednesday)]

Hi Dan

Been watching this thread, I can not offer any more advice because you have received so much and seem to be taking it on board.

I only wanted to say that coming from someone whose WW instantly bolted back to the OM as soon as I found out, and from what you've posted so far, it sounds like if you ever felt R was something you wanted to pursue, that your WW sounds like she is starting off on the right tracks. A lot of WW on here get caught up in the fog and continue the A, yours didn't, a lot of this may be to do with how short-term it was and that it didn't escalate further. There may still be some truths to come out yet but from where I'm standing it sounds like you may have 95% of it already, but do make sure you get ALL of the truth as it will make a difference.

However, the intent was there to turn this into a full-blown PA, and that's going to be a difficult pill to swallow, but do not make hasty decisions, I felt a lot more grounded after around 3 months, you should too, and you will. Right now there's lots of raw emotion, anger and a hundred other emotions you're going through and this shit takes time.

Take a step back, observe your WWs actions, and concentrate on healing YOU right now. Think about what you want, for some this would be a deal-breaker, for others not, we're all different, this is your decision and not ours.

Sorry you are here, but you're doing so well in the space of such a short time, stay strong and look after yourself and your kids.

Engaging in activities denied to their partner with an AP is adding insult to injury. It shows that the AP was more important,..

No it doesn’t.

You have no idea what was in her head at all and are making stuff up to fill in the blanks based on your own beliefs.

We all tend to do it...it’s a completely normal thing to do, fill in the blanks like that. Doesn’t make it any less BS that we do it, though.

Dan, the time for lies is in the past, the time for the truth is now. There are the obvious things, like her lies, that aren’t the truth. Those you deal with by uncovering them and letting them see the light of day.

Then there is the subtle stuff, the ultimately more important stuff, like who you thought she was in your mind versus who she actually is, this woman in front of you that you had assumed so much about, falsely it turned out. There’s what she thought about herself, versus who she actually found out she is. We lie to ourselves too. Seeing that stuff and facing that reality with courage is the basis for moving forward to R, or just an honest relationship with your children’s mother if you D. Just the truth, seeing what is in front of you and not what you think you see, or want to see.

Don’t fill in the blanks, just acknowledge what you don’t actually know. It’s the more honest path.

Best of luck, and Sending Strength.

I would say, Dan, that your WW could be a good candidate for R. She seems to be taking responsibility and being proactive. I say could because it is still hard and to soon to determine if it's regret and damage control or truly remorse. Actions over words. Consistent actions over time.

Whatever it is (I hope it's remorse) it's a long road. IMO this wasn't just a temporary brain fart. There was something in her that allowed her to justify doing this. That needs to be found out and dealt with. It could have been latent and it takes a long time and counselling to drill down until there's absolutely nothing else to uncover. One question is if she's up to the task and will have the commitment to keep at it.

There needs to be consequences. There are already in that your daughters now know, her sister and BIL know, at least some of her ex fellow employees now know and I'm sure the story has made the rounds at work. I'm saying she can't get off easy and have it smoothed over quickly.

Some of the consequences have to be about openness and transparency. No more leaving a phone somewhere and not having her where abouts trackable. Access to all media. No secrets unless it's planning a surprise birthday party for you. And much more.

I strongly, strongly recommend the "How To Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair" by Linda J. MacDonald. I think you indicated many pages ago that your WW ordered "Not Just Friends" by Dr. Shirley Glass and that was positive. Ordering it and reading it are 2 different things. I know this from experience. That is the action over words concept. The Linda J. MacDonald book is a very short and easy read. It should, IMO, be read and re-read and parts almost committed to memory.

It doesn't matter id there was no PIV. This is still a PA. Long past an EA. There was sexual touching and kissing. Some have D from much less. Some have R from much more.

The choice to R or D is still yours. I wouldn't make that decision too soon to get past the extreme emotional situation (I'm projecting here from my own experience about the emotional part). Perhaps you are more pragmatic than I ever was.

It seems to me that there is the possible prospect of your WW being R material. I think it's really too early to tell. More time and observation required. Even if she is and it's a deal breaker for you that perfectly okay. If you think there is enough evidence and you'd like to try to R that is okay, too.

Tough shit no matter what and at Christmas, too. Best of luck, Dan. Do what is best for you when you actually figure out for sure what that is. An IC can help you deal with the shit and can help you do that.

[This message edited by steadychevy at 6:17 AM, December 19th (Wednesday)]

For those questioning the STD panel, you get STD's from swapping body fluids. Full-on sex is not always required. STD testing is important for kissing and transferring crotch fluids too. That's why herpes is so prevalent. With the speed and ease at which the OM moved from "Hi, my name is..." to "don't wear panties to the party", I'd think he's been with many easy women (whores/sluts) and as a consequence exposed to many STD's.

Continue to take it slow Dan. Allow time to help you through this. Also know that your daughters may begin to advocate for their mother over you. It's important to be totally honest with them. Give them the openness that your WW denied them and you.

And just as a side note, it's odd that she was so quick to jump into bed with that guy; she was seeking it from the start. Weird.

You should tone down any talk of your children being on either side of this. Nobody really wins in these situations, you survive just like the name of the website says and your children are the biggest losers here. They have now been exposed to more adult things that they need at their age and their opinion of their parents is forever altered. Give them the space to feel what they feel and don't think of it as Team Dad and Team Mom.

You should tone down any talk of your children being on either side of this. Nobody really wins in these situations, you survive just like the name of the website says and your children are the biggest losers here.

Again this is why I URGE you to get them signed up for some counseling. They may appear fine, but I guarantee you they are fearful, and upset, and confused, and need a 3rd party besides their same age friends to discuss how to handle this.

If you do one thing productive today make it be this.

I see that she did go to the clinic this morning and her book "not just friends" is "out for delivery". I will check into counseling for the girls.

I agree with this, beenthere and tushnurse. Especially about the urgency.

I agree with others who say to get your kids some professional help. But for that to work, they have to know what your wife has done. Her explanation that she "got a little too close" to OM won't do it. I would not give them all the dirty details, but they should know it was more than a little flirting with OM via texts and going to lunch a couple of times.

Since they ask when is Mom coming home right after she spent some alone time with them tells me she is still minimizing what she did to them. Thus making it all your fault that you are keeping her out of the house.

I know you are not trying to get the girls to choose between the two of you and that is good. After all she is their mother and that is not going to change.

Dan, I'm glad things are progressing. I do agree about therapy for the girls, as mine are similar ages, and the older one actually loves going to talk about what happened/is happening at home. Kids love BOTH of their parents and have a hard time processing the situation and struggle with issues pertaining to hatred/confusion/love for the other parent.

This thread is fast reaching the 50-page limit, so I want to get a few pointers in:

I think there hasn’t been a +10-hour gap between your posts. Pace yourself. Get some rest. This problem won’t fix itself, it won’t go away, and it will possibly be the dominant factor in your life for anything from 6-18 months. This is too serious to rush. Your decisions will impact you and your family for years to come. Take the advice some have offered and exercise, spend time with your girls, eat… Be physically and/or mentally capable of dealing with the issues.

Deal with reality – not fiction or fantasy.

IMHO you probably have the big picture. You need the details and there are jarring gaps and red flags in the whole story, but basically you have the big picture: Your wife was in an active affair. It was physical. It would probably be ongoing hadn’t you stopped it.

That’s enough for now. That’s enough to work with.

Over or under panties isn’t really an issue NOW. Oral or panties or dress, what she did or did not do with OM… not an issue NOW. Getting to the bottom of all the relevant issues takes time and contemplation. The truth needs to be known and each element needs to be analyzed and digested, but at the correct time.

I am NOT suggesting or advocating rug-sweeping. Just that you rest, think, analyze, ask, confirm, rest, analyze, ask again, confirm… if needed. Once again – pace yourself. You will get the truth you need, and you NEED the truth… but not necessarily right now.

Be as true and honest to yourself as you can.

Earlier on you said your wife could easily be replaced. You called her a bitch. You said that what you already knew is a deal-breaker and you were going to divorce.

Yet here you are…

First days or even weeks are controlled by emotions and anger. One more reason to pace yourself.

If you want to divorce, then you already have all you need. I have seen posters divorce from what would be considered “less” than you are dealing with, I have seen posters recover from “more”. Doesn’t matter. What matters is what YOU want and what YOU can get. Be it D or be it R.

What would be the absolute worst outcome IMHO is some quasi-marriage where the issues aren’t resolved. Either because your wife minimizes or doesn’t deal with what made her decide to have an affair, or because you replace marriage with a form of servitude and submission.

So be as true and honest to yourself as you can. Be clear on your goals and what you hope to strive for. You are perfectly free to change goals and/or adjust as you go along, but working towards D requires different tools than working to R.

BTW – I left my relationship and have never bothered getting to know why my fiancé had this need to have sex with random men. For ME – at THAT TIME and at THAT PLACE in our relationship the simple fact she had sex with other men was enough. Getting to know or understand why wouldn’t have changed my mind. What she did with them and what she wore… for me at that time had no relevance to my decision.

Regarding a poly.

I recommend you get one. Only use it correctly. Use it to CONFIRM you have the truth.

If you entertain some thoughts of reconciling, then this is what I recommend:

Tell your wife you need total and absolute honesty. Promise her that whatever she shares NOW and in the next week or so will be received and digested. There will be no knee-jerk reaction, no filing for divorce, no racing to OM to give him a beating. Right now, you aren’t certain if you can reconcile or not, but you will take whatever she shares and contemplate what you want to do.

Make it extremely clear that if you discover any direct lies or (major) omissions they will have immense negative impact. They will hammer in the truth that you can’t trust her, and that she doesn’t trust you with the truth. A small lie uncovered later can be more damaging than a major confession now.

At some point IF you decide to reconcile – probably no earlier than late January – you do a poly with the main aim of confirming what truths you already have. Like if she tells you that their first date was on XX and you have proof that it’s correct then one of the questions might be on that subject.

Finally, regarding the poly: It needs to have a purpose. We had a poster earlier this year whose wife insisted nothing physical happened. This despite overwhelming evidence where even I the sceptic was certain it was physical. The wife miserably failed a poly – like totally flunked it 100%. The BH didn’t have a clear path so last time he posted he was still trying to reconcile with a wayward wife that refused to tell him the truth. I can’t imagine growing old with a spouse that I constantly doubt. So, use the poly as a milestone: If she passes you believe what she has told you, if she fails then she doesn’t trust you and R isn’t really a feasible or attainable option.

I don't agree with arbitrarily running the kids to a third party for counseling. You're their father and should be talking to them. If you see concerning behavior then take action. It may be a good idea to just monitor their behavior and responses for now rather than rushing into something that may not benefit them or where some half-baked psychologist convinces them that they have issues.

Emotional maturity in every kid is different and every kid responds differently. If yours are in public high school and watching TV then they've been exposed to years of divorced parent situations. They have friends whose parents have been through divorce and family troubles and seen and heard the kids' thoughts and reactions. Unless you've placed them in a sanitized socialization bubble, your kids are at an age where they know what's going on, and where you can be honest with them (without getting into gory details) and they'll understand without falling apart.

The most important thing you can do in addition to being totally open and honest, is model for them a logical, reasoned response to the situation. By doing this, you give them security and assurance that they and their world are sitting on a solid foundation. As long as you don't fall apart, the kids have an anchor that they can lash themselves to that they know without a doubt will not be moved.

You do, as another poster suggested, need to ensure that they have the whole story though and not some breezy description of events from the culprit. Again, take care of yourself.

I did look into the poly, and there are two places in our area that do them. The cheapest was $480 with a $100 deposit. They only allow 4 questions.

Someone here said that we are limited to 1000 posts? We are at 997 now. Should I start a part 2 post?

I did look into the poly, and there are two places in our area that do them. The cheapest was $480 with a $100 deposit. They only allow 4 questions.

Although i'm not a big believer of poly, given how fast this whole thing transpired, this will be the best $480 you will spend if you decide to go ahead with the poly. You can't put a price on peace of mind.

You should start a second one if you like. Or you could start a new topic. If you have questions about specific things or questions that you may need help with, a new and separate thread would work too.

Dan, you don't want to go to McPolygraphs!

I would be very careful about finding the cheapest polygraph place.

Find a place with a good reputation, with lots of experience with infidelity, and who know how to structure airtight questions to test an unfaithful spouse.