SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I'm puzzled as to why some here keep pushing Dan to let his wife move home. She doesn't deserve to be allowed to just come back home because she's cried a few tears, said, "Sorry," and made the same bs promises we ALL heard about doing anything and everything to make it up to him. There have to be repercussions when someone betrays a spouse - especially with infidelity.

She showed some true colors last night when they met and she suggested she come inside for some "making up" time. True manipulator right there - using sex to try and control Dan. No, HELL NO!! Thank God you used the right head, Dan. She is not remorseful - she regrets being caught.

It is absolutely clear that had you not gone to the Christmas party, Dan, she would not have worn panties and she was intent on having more intimate relations with Spring Roll. I'm not sure why she didn't warn him you were coming but perhaps because she was afraid of what he might do if she told him ahead of time.

You have to take this at your own pace. We've all been bombarding you with information, suggestions, and our own emotions. In the end, it has to be your decision. My heart breaks for you and your sweet daughters. I always advocate for not telling children much of what's happening in this kind of situation but since you're wife has gone into covering her ass mode and minimizing what she did, you may have to tell the girls a little more. But, wait until after Christmas if you can. This will forever taint Christmas for them as it is. No need to make it worse if you can help it.

Hi Dan

Checking back in with you.

I think you should definitely do a poly. But not right now. I think you still have a lot of work to do nailing down the timeline and having discussions.

If you want, tell her that you’ll be scheduling one in January and in the meantime you will be working with her to nail down what she says is the truth. Let her know The poly will confirm what she is telling you.

I can’t tell if you talked to her about any of the things I mentioned on page 32. It’s ok if you haven’t. I know how hard this all is.

But I still do think there are some things you need to say to her and groundrules you need to set. I’ve simplified and summarized for you some of the things I wrote before and added a few from your most recent comments below.

Hopefully they help you.

Finally you might want to start thinking about when you will be willing to let her back in the house or if you want to at least tell her when you will checkpoint again on that subject. Of course having her there allows you to keep a closer eye on her but it may also increase your stress level. But if you are going to wonder where she is anyway, it may help to have her right there even if you are living in separate bedrooms.

Just something to think about. If you do let her back in it will be important to set explicit groundrules on a number of subjects that we will be glad to help you with.

With that said, here is the list of subjects I’d suggest you discuss with her. Let me know if any don’t make sense to you and I’d be glad to elaborate. You are getting great advice here. You definitely have plenty to think about from all the posters who definitely care about you and your happiness.

- your actions have broken my heart. It is up to you if you are willing to do the work to repair it. It is up to me to accept the work you do and give the gift of R someday if I ever feel I can

- over the next days and weeks we need to nail down the truthful timeline. We need to type it up online and modify it based on our discussions so I can review it when questions pop in my head. Once we do we will schedule a poly to verify. You should include any other infidelities you have had over the years as I will be asking about that on the poly.

- you will need to be in IC a long time to figure out why you felt it was ok to do what you did. I will need to do the same to learn to work thru the pain you caused me

- my trust in you will take a lot of time to rebuild if we decide to stay together. You can imagine that any interaction you have with any men in the future will always now make me uncomfortable. You have a lot of work to do on boundaries before I will ever trust again.

- if you knew this man prior to his arrival, either thru inter office communications (voice email etc) before he arrived or even of his reputation from others in your office, you need to reveal that to me. What was the nature of your relationship prior to dec 3.

- the fact that you were able to betray me so quickly is a completely scary thing to me. Your work in IC will have to explore how you submitted this man almost immediately. I am so hurt by this.

- if there is ever something missing from our relationship I will need to feel safe that you will bring it to me and not just have sex with a random dude as the answer. Why you chose this path is still incomprehensible to me.

- I am assuming that if you were going to go pantiless to the party that you were at least going to allow him to see what was under your dress and 99% sure that you would have allowed him to penetrate you either manually or with intercourse that night. I’m not sure how you prove otherwise and feel you should be honest about this if we are going to start healing

- while I cannot guarantee our future together I will guarantee that anything you are not honest about will work against that possibility

- the work you need to do is regardless of the outcome of us. So please stop trying to control the outcome and do what you need to do to work on repairing you and healing us without thought as to whether we will ever be together again.

- please create a plan, a real written plan, to fix you, repair our family and help me heal. Then Review it with me.

- please get help with this plan and defining what you need to do to help us recover from your infidelity. You cannot know it all. You are not an expert at fixing relationships after infidelity

- any communication going forward that you have with the OM or those who encouraged it will make it more and more unlikely that we will ever be together again

- I appreciate that you took the action to resign. I would like to know in detail what was said between you and your supervisor and how you left it. Also please don’t take any more life changing steps without fully discussing them with me. We need to be on the same page every step of the way

- you need to account for your whereabouts. You can’t go places without telling me our SIL/BIL. If you do and we dont know where you are, I will assume you are with the POSOM. I dont think you want that.

- if you try to sour my relationship with our daughters in order to build up your own that will make it impossible for us to R. I’m willing to encourage them to work with you but not if you are disparaging me to them in any way

- please write me another letter In which you describe what you think I must be feeling right now. State What you would feel of the roles were reversed. I’ll give you a hint, I feel completely rejected by you, like I was not good enough for you and so you needed to find what you were missing with someone else.

- also I would like to know in that letter if you are thankful I stopped you from going further or if you wished I had stayed out of it and let you go thru with what you obviously were going to do

- finally you should know that not only does your A hurt me but also the deceit against me, the lies you told, is equally painful. The fact that you were so easily able to lie to me to the extent you did and how that you made me feel unwelcome at your holiday party will stick with me for a long time. It’s almost as bad as the infidelity itself. We were supposed to be a team looking out for each other’s feelings. Protecting them. Instead You completely hurt mine by making me feel like a fool in front of your friends. That will take as long to forgive as you touching another man.

Sorry this happened to you. Yes, she totally (excuse the pun) screwed up, there is no doubt about that, but she has shown a lot more remorse than a lot of other spouses on here - that in itself, is a whole lot better than the alternative. Not saying she deserves a free pass from here on - she certainly has a lot more proving and questions to answer.

I agree, I would push the Poly and you may even get a parking lot confession, although most polygraph examiners want payment upfront as they know that often happens...

With that said - not sure if your wife has always had an iPhone... I say that, because if she had an Android prior to the iPhone, an Android phones seem to store and reveal a lot more history from google location history etc if she has a Gmail account... Do you have a computer or a laptop at home? Not sure if anyone else has mentioned this, but it is always good to look at the browser history. When I found out about my wife's affair, I went back years on her browser history and that is when I discovered another affair, from her Googling strange mens names and hotel options. So check on that - Google stores it for years, if it is turned on... also, search her private emails trash folders etc (Gmail, Yahoo etc) - they often create a secret email account. I even went as far as checking the toll-tag logs, credit card statements, cloud stored photos etc to get an better timeline of here whereabout and see if everything added up...

Again, sorry you are here, and best of luck to you...

Yes, she did agree to a poly. Should I go through with it?

Absolutely. That is an essential in the circumstances, unless you have already decided to call it a day, in which case it would be an irrelevance.

She has always been somewhat submissive in the bedroom.

When you think about it, the dynamic between your wife and Frenchie was already a bit '50 Shades', with him telling her to wear no panties, and her willing to obey his orders.

His attitude at the party was possessive, aggressive, and petulant, as if he was being deprived of something that was already his. That wasn't normal; it smacks of the whole dom/sub routine.

I think it is interesting that your wife described him as 'protective', which is a sugar-coated way of describing a possessive 'owner'. Your wife's submissive streak may have helped things to move so quickly, because a lot of women would have told a guy with his possessive attitude where to go.

Edited to Add:

If the guy is into gaming and the sub/dom - slaves/masters thing, he probably knows the signs to look for in potential conquests and has developed a routine and approach for testing how compliant they are likely to be.

[This message edited by M1965 at 10:53 AM, December 18th (Tuesday)]

There is one more uncomfortable detail to deal with that I d not think you addressed.

"The night in the car when they made out and the french guy touched your wife intimately, did your wife say she did not do likewise with/to him either by hand or mouth? Condom usage?

it seems to me that the jerk was a bit goal oriented, would have pushed for something.

You need to find that out, if only to know your risk of STDs.

It was on her lunch break and she swears that she did not touch touch his "stuff".

I have requested an STD test.

[This message edited by DaninOH at 11:10 AM, December 18th (Tuesday)]

"How long was she trying to talk you out of going to the party?"

Since the about 10 days before. But it got more forceful in the last 4 or 5 days

So, it’s safe to say that within 3 days of meeting the OM, she’s already trying to ditch you for some alone time with him? Any texts between them during this time about the party?

In addition regarding allowing her to come back home. Some think that this only gives her time to pursue the affair or that it hurts with reconciliation. Well, Dan needs to know if she tries to have contact with the SR and if she does, well that gives him his answer. Also, leaving her ass out in the cold - that will help with reconciliation IF he decides that's what he wants.

Dan,

When you do the polygraph you will likely get a "parking lot confession". Take that information in but DO NOT forego the poly. The extra Trickle Truth before is usually to make the BS think they now know everything when in fact they don't. The serious/dangerous stuff is still hidden. So follow through with the poly no matter what. Check her browser history for searches on how to beat a poly. That happens way more often than I would ever expect. Talk with the polygrapher to sort out the questions for pertinence. You only get 3-5 per session generally, so make them count.

So, it’s safe to say that within 3 days of meeting the OM, she’s already trying to ditch you for some alone time with him? Any texts between them during this time about the party?

This is quite disconcerting. Same old same that's been repeated ad nauseam,: Not first rodeo, relationship longer than stated etc...

Highly suspect since she was definitely into it. Have you EVER made out with someone and not had your hands roaming over their body as things heated up? You are not stupid, even if she thinks you are.

Is it possible for you to take the girls away on a trip for Christmas? Skiing? Florida? Somewhere so the 3 of you can get away from all this for a few days. Yes, it would be sad in some ways that your wife isn't there but you need a break and some fun could really help ease the tension for you and your girls.

It was on her lunch break and she swears that she did not touch touch his "stuff."

If you do not find any text that specifically mention sex, then you have to ask her did they talk about wanting to do anything sexual during the 4.5 hours of phone conversations.

I think we all know the answer to that. But the question is, will she admit to it?

Any texts between them during this time about the party?

No texts directly talking about the party. There was the exchange about "wanting to see her out of her scrubs".

I think you let her home when and if you’re ready. I’m still gobsmacked that after 2 weeks she was willing to give it up to this guy and even more gobsmacked that after 2 weeks this guy thought she was his property. Ummmm 20 years of marriage vs 2 weeks of sexting? This guy seems deranged to me. Seriously. Wtaf?

All I can say is welcome to the club of super sleuthing where you will at some point wonder if you could become a PI for all the knowledge you will obtain. The downfall to it, when it’s your own spouse it’s not fun. It will test anyone’s sanity. It downright sucks. And only you know if the marriage is worth it and base that worth on what she does now when she thinks no one is watching.

"How long was she trying to talk you out of going to the party?"

Since the about 10 days before. But it got more forceful in the last 4 or 5 days.

Did he tell her to keep you away from the party, or was it her idea to discourage you from attending? (More generally, what else was he telling her to do, and how did she respond to these instructions, if in fact there were any?)

Did he tell her to keep you away from the party, or was it her idea to discourage you from attending? (More generally, what else was he telling her to do, and how did she respond to these instructions, if in fact there were any?)

It sounded like it was more of her idea.

I agree with JT4588 on the first post of this page

Did you ask your ww the following questions.

1. Besides her having a "panic attack" in the bathroom, how disappointed was she when she saw you all ready to go to the party?

2. Even though she didn't "promise sex" to the OM, did she admit to you that she was planning on fucking the OM that night?

3. I asked this question in my previous post but you did not answer it. Did you ask her when she knew she's busted.

Seems like your WW will do anythign to please the OM. I'm sorry to say it but your WW is minimizing the PA that transpired. She could be scared if she discloses everything that they did, that you will D her right away.

Did you ask your ww the following questions.

1. Besides her having a "panic attack" in the bathroom, how disappointed was she when she saw you all ready to go to the party?

2. Even though she didn't "promise sex" to the OM, did she admit to you that she was planning on fucking the OM that night?

3. I asked this question in my previous post but you did not answer it. Did you ask her when she knew she's busted.

She claims that she was strangely "relieved" and almost as if she had been "rescued from herself" that I was going to the party.

She knew that she was busted when she saw that her phone was missing and that our car was gone.

Looks as if she left SILs house, went to the grocery store and is now at our house.

Does she now at least admit that she was going to/thinking of having sex with him after/during the party or at some point afterwards ?

The timeline and the escalation is way too quick, I'm still not convince they didn't do more than she claims they did in the car and why OM had to wait for the party for something else to happen when they had contact pretty much every day and she was pretty much spellbound by then, typically an OM as aggressive as this one would have pushed for a few "quickies" way before the party, why wait when you have the goods right there? you need to press her on this, I'm not saying it's not possible, but very hard to believe.

I’m curious,

Has she offered you a “free pass” if you let her come home?