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Also read my previous comment, if after just a couple of days she was already making out with OM and allowed him to feel/massage her vagina, why would OM wait until the party more than a week later when she was available every day and was already cheating and making out, plus OM had accomodations and plenty of opportunity for a few "lunch quickies".

He didn't "make-out & massage her vagina" until 6 days after their first date and the party was 4 days after the "vagina massaging". They probably would have had more lunch dates but he had a hard time taking lunch at the same time as her.

You could call each and every number that she's called and verify the contact. I think it is justified and would give you piece of mind. She has no reason to complain and, if it leads to R, it would help her too.

Have you determined your breaking point? Sexual acts that you deemed unforgivable. And does she know what it is? If she does, this will prevent you from getting the truth.

A lot of posters, including myself, are convinced that there's more sexual acts that occurred between them. It doesn't have to happen during their lunch breaks. Were there days she came home late from work? Called or texted you that she needs to stay an extra hour or two to finish her work.

Ok that sounds reasonable but there was still opportunity during breaks or right before/after work, it wouldn't hurt to press her on that.

What about the other part of my previous post ?:

I know you may be overwhelmed with advice but you need honesty from her and if based on the "pantyless" request, it's clear she was going to have sex with OM during/after the party or at some point shortly after, has she at least admitted to this ? if she denies this OBVIOUS outcome, that means she's still minimizing and is NOT being truthful to herself much less to you, it will take intense IC to fix her.

My WW and seemingly a number of other WS had nooners and quickies after work. Possibility. Whether she comes home or not she needs to be fully transparent and honest. She needs to fully disclose anyone she's been talking to. She's not working so there isn't any work communication required.

I would suggest to not make any quick decisions. At this very emotional time you may make decisions you'll end up being unhappy about.

One thing to think about, though, is what is the laws in your state regarding adultery. Here is Alberta, Canada if the BS or WS doesn't leave immediately after discovery the BS is deemed to have condoned the A. I didn't know that. When I decided to D it meant it would take a year of separation instead of three months. HB didn't help that, either. Of course, if you R it doesn't matter. R or D are still both possibilities.

"It feels like walking in on your naked wife and her lover right before he sticks it in and her saying "but we didn't have sex"."

I couldn't have put it better Dan. You did walk in just before he put it in her. She was going to the party pantyless before you intervened; in other words they planned to have sex Friday. You literally stepped in as he trying to insert; that's why he was so pissed off. The payoff for him was just a few moments away. And to make it worse, she was trying to get you to stay home with the full knowledge that she was going to have sex with the guy. If she ever uses the line "but we didn't have sex", divorce her. When you have every intent to accomplish a betrayal and you're trying to manipulate every situation so that you can accomplish the betrayal at all costs, then even though it gets interrupted, the betrayal has already occurred.

I'm glad that you're waiting it out to determine if you want to R at all. It's wise to give your head time to level out and also to see if she's truly remorseful. You also must decide at some point if you want to live with someone who has betrayed your marriage; someone who you may never be able to trust again. There are a lot of other women out there and you're at an age where it would be easy to find someone else.

If you do decide to allow her to stay, get yourself an iron-clad post-nuptial agreement drawn up and filed in case she allows another french, aussie, or middle-eastern guy to hold her crotch.

She did get one thing right; you are too good for her. Take care of yourself.

Question: I'm not sure I read anywhere where you said that she was *actually* pantyless at the party (you said he asked, you didn't say if she actually did it, unless I miss that post). Was she? If not, that might make a difference.

I know you may be overwhelmed with advice but you need honesty from her and if based on the "pantyless" request, it's clear she was going to have sex with OM during/after the party or at some point shortly after, has she at least admitted to this ? if she denies this OBVIOUS outcome, that means she's still minimizing and is NOT being truthful to herself much less to you, it will take intense IC to fix her.

I think that at some point she would have had to prove that she was in fact "pantyless".

I don't know if she did wear panties that night or not. She went to SILs still wearing the dress.

She has said that she will attend IC ASAP.

Dan went with her to the Xmas party, I doubt she went pantyless after he insisted on attending with her.......

[This message edited by Atrowspark at 1:43 PM, December 18th (Tuesday)]

Have you looked at the text history with Kelli?

I looked yesterday after the text but couldn't find where she had sent anything in the past.

No previous texts to Kelli is a ? as everyone talks to everyone via text more than calls. Did you check text and call log for Kelli?

Bottom line is your wife is going to do what she is going to do. She made that clear when she was planning to bang the OM.

So maybe she is contacting him as Kelli, next time it may be Connie, or Dr. Wilson. If her desire is to contact him, she will. Either with that phone or a $35 Trac phone from Target. There is not a lot you can do.

If she knows that contact = D and she is willing to take a Poly I am leaning toward she may not be in contact but WTF do I know. I am trying to use common sense here....

PS-In the past I had a GF who would let me know if she was without panties (a rare occasion). She did this when we were at a dinner party, an historic house tour and at the mall. And there was no Dom Sub thing, just a horned up sexy GF who knew that would get a reaction out of me. Might be what your WW did

I'm puzzled as to why some here keep pushing Dan to let his wife move home. She doesn't deserve to be allowed to just come back home because she's cried a few tears, said, "Sorry," and made the same bs promises we ALL heard about doing anything and everything to make it up to him. There have to be repercussions when someone betrays a spouse - especially with infidelity.

Exactly! But even so, it's not about how remorseful she is. IT'S ABOUT WHAT THE BS WANTS AND NEEDS! What the WS does or doesn't deserve does not trump the BS's needs. Some times the BS needs space and the WS is their biggest trigger. This doesn't doom R and the saying that separation is bad for R ONLY APPLIES when the WS wants a separation. Dan has repeatedly said that he wants her out for now. Let's respect his wishes.

Dan, I agree that the polygraph is your next step. Unfortunately, there are too many what ifs. Your WW hasn't been forthcoming enough with the details nor has she owned her part in this by not admitting that sex was clearly on the table for that night at the party. She isn't meeting the criteria for remorse with that attitude and you need to be sure that she's being honest now before you can R.

The only thing that bothers me is that she left her phone at her sister's house to go shopping. It's out of the norm from what she had been doing. It's odd that she wouldn't want to be next to her phone in case you called or texted when she so badly wanted to talk to you. It's something that stands out to me as not making much sense. Did she know that you were tracking her phone or at least know that you software installed to do that?

Dan, it is perfectly normal to not be accomplishing much at work. Lots have been reprimanded or fired for lack of performance. You've talked with your supervisor regarding your situation. That was a very good move. You've got until the New Year and a short week until the next weekend to "pull up your socks".

I recommend again that you get your Dr. to prescribe sleep aides if you need them. I told my Dr. about my situation and he was very supportive. My best wishes for you and your daughters.

Bottom line is your wife is going to do what she is going to do. She made that clear when she was planning to bang the OM.

So maybe she is contacting him as Kelli, next time it may be Connie, or Dr. Wilson.

"Kelli" is definitely a different number than "spring roll".

That there has been no texting history with Kelli before is odd. If your wife has quit, how did they get the each other's numbers?

The OM would be a fool to text,or call, your wife from his phone. He knows you know his number. A burner phone is $10 at the dollar store.

[This message edited by HellFire at 1:51 PM, December 18th (Tuesday)]

It's suspicious to me, too, that she had told sister and BIL that she was going to be home and left after they did without her phone and claims to have went shopping. How often would she go anywhere without her phone? Maybe never. It may be as she says but it's suspicious. Easy to pop into a store and pick something up for proof. Again, just seems suspicious.

"Kelli" vs "Spring Roll": Could be the same number. You should call.

"Pantyless": Did you ask her if she went pantyless? What did she say?

I have no other suggestions at the moment other than to get your wife to take a polygraph as many others have suggested to confirm what your wife has been telling you.

I will point out though that your wife's living arrangement probably needs to be addressed before Christmas. I think it would probably be unfair and inconvenient for your in-laws to have your wife living with them over the holidays even though they may not say it outright.

[This message edited by Atrowspark at 1:53 PM, December 18th (Tuesday)]

Dan, this is my first time chiming in on your story. Let me say I’m sorry you had reason to join us, but glad you found us. I think you are doing really well so far. Lots of difficult conversations to come, but if you keep your head and use the good advice you are getting here you will be out of infidelity sooner than later.

One other quick comment, the underwear question seems to be one that would be tailor made for the yes/no answers required for the polygraph.

I wish you the best as you navigate your way out of this shit storm.