SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Although the idea of having sex with somebody who actually wants to have sex with me is an appealing thought, but that's another topic altogether.

The book I recommended discusses this as well. Yes, you definitely should be having sex with someone that wants it, but as long as you're a passive type of guy, trying to nice your way into pleasing her, she will not find you sexually attractive.

I suppose MC is the next logical step to help her see the extent of my pain. I struggle to communicate what I'm feeling. But do I even want to fix the M? I have no clue right now. I have NO. FUCKING. CLUE.

She will never "see" the extent of your pain. If she hasn't seen it in two years, and believes you're only living in the past, she is never going to care about you or your emotional suffering. If she really gave a shit about you, she never would have cheated in the first place. You've been on SI long enough to know for the WS it is all about them. Right now, your WW just makes nice because you're nothing more than a good provider to her.

And I am going to redact my apology and tell her I need this site. I was never going to not look at it, but there's no sense in having her think that she can control what I see and read.

You don't even have to say you need this site. Just redact the apology and say from now on you'll read whatever you damn well please. No explanation is necessary.

I can't emphasis enough the book I recommended earlier. It will also give you a clue as to what to do next. You don't need to work on the marriage, you need to work on yourself. If you continue down this path, your wife will just continue to run you over and treat you like crap. If you change yourself to be a more assertive, stronger man, your wife will change to adapt to you. You need to be the one that controls things, not the other way around.

Although the idea of having sex with somebody who actually wants to have sex with me is an appealing thought, but that's another topic altogether.

Trying to reconcile is hard enough as it is, but doing so with a wife who doesn't find you attractive and doesn't actively pursue a sex life with you sounds like pure misery.

When I picture the future, she's not there. I imagine myself going to visit my kids at college by myself. I imagine what my life would be like as a single man. What would I do with all that extra time and space? Would my mind finally be clear without having her and her affair bogging me down constantly? Even though I'd end up being a weekend Dad, could I somehow get to a quality vs quantity type of situation, and end up being a better father than I am now? The only reason I stayed initially was for the kids. I can't say it's really much different now. I never fantasize about being with another woman... just alone. Although the idea of having sex with somebody who actually wants to have sex with me is an appealing thought, but that's another topic altogether.

Fenderguy, you summed up everything I am feeling in this paragraph. I couldn’t have expressed this the way you did. Word for word. I just wanted you to know others feel this exact same way.

If my H ever ever voiced his disapproval to me about my interaction on this site - he would be sorry.

I am open about it. I hide nothing.

I also come here to provide support to others.

My XH and I took a second try at getting back together about 4 months after the D was final, which was about 5 months after he had moved out. He was floored that I was still on SI, and was shocked that I was still thinking about his infidelity. He thought like your WS, that it's done and over and why am I dwelling on it? They truly have no idea. I'm almost six years out and still benefit from SI.

It sounds like you are a long way from actually being reconciled if you are still envisioning a future alone. Just remember, your timeline is your own, and at any point it is perfectly acceptable and "normal" to realize and accept that the infidelity was a deal breaker. Personally I thought never in a million years would I even remotely consider R but I did, and then decided it would not work. Divorce is scary, but so is living looking over your shoulder and carrying a load of resentment.

I wish you the best of luck. SI will be here when you need it whether your WW likes it or not.

I gave my WS the benefit that he didn't give me - utter and complete honesty. I lost respect and trust and it is up to him to rebuild both by his actions and his behavior. I separated our finances and demanded a post nup. He knew I was on SI and followed me to this site. I didn't hide my feelings on here either even knowing he read and continues to read every.single.word I write here.

With all of the loss I felt on that fateful day, I found something of incredible value - my worth. At first my worth disintegrated but that is no longer true. I believe it was this honesty, therapy, my behavior, and the great advise from folks on SI that really got me to a place where I am individually better than before. Our M has changed but we're in a great place and I have hope for the future.

Fenderguy, don't settle for compromising your value. Don't ever allow her denial or her demands to trump your needs. What I learned during this process is my behaviors taught him how to treat me - the more boundaries I demanded, the more he had to step up and be the partner I deserved. Treat yourself well and show her your value. Our WS's either lean into that and develop themselves into a better partner or they don't and that means they don't value us or our relationship.

(((Fenderguy)))

He was floored that I was still on SI, and was shocked that I was still thinking about his infidelity.

It means so much more to us (the BS) than it ever did to them (the WS). That's one of the things that I think really bugs us, deep down, about affairs. It hurts someone (or lots of people, both BS's, families, friends, etc) SO badly for such little "increase" in joy.

As those who follow my threads know, I LOVE sex. I'm as highly motivated as they come for sex. And I can imagine some pretty spectacular affair fueled, perfect bodied AP with a case of uncontrolled nymphomania that was going to prove fatal. And let me tell you, I'd enjoy the hell out of that (the sex, not the A). But the enjoyment of that wouldn't even register compared to how bad my W's affair hurt me (and how bad I assume my hypothetical tryst with the nymphomaniac would hurt her). It's not even on the same scale, the best sex I can possibly imagine, lots of playmates with all the trimmings, it's still nothing like the pain. And, lets be honest, the "best I can imagine" is very likely to pale in comparison to the reality of A sex.

The pain you cause another person with an A is just totally out of scale for the pleasure you receive from it. And don't get me started if you're idea of "pleasure" in the A is "love", because, unlike sex, you're not even gonna get that. So you cause someone years and years of pain for what? Someone to lie to you and say how much they care about you? Or give you a BJ in the back of the car? I've had some pretty good BJ's in my day, I wouldn't trade one for a DAY of the pain from an affair, let alone the years and years of pain that's the "actual" damage from an A.

I think a lot of people (WS's) think "it wasn't even that great, just get over it already" and they just don't understand. It only made them a little happier, how could it make you so unhappy in response? It's non-reflexive. You make me 1% happier and in return, I make my wife 99% unhappier. It's just an awful trade, and, IMHO a lot of the "get over it" talk comes from this.

[This message edited by Rideitout at 9:53 PM, January 18th (Friday)]

I found this site nearly 30 years after getting cheated on and dumped and having my life crushed. It has been an interesting experience for me because I went through a tumultuous/dysfunctional period, then found peace with myself, then got married and had a family and a good life.

But even with all of that, this site has helped me sort out and understand some of the stuff I went through back in those days, especially my "broken" period after getting dumped for the AP. I wouldn't say it was healing so much for me as sorting out.

RIO, that is so true! My WW is not somebody who puts much value into sex/physical intimacy. For her, it's always just kind of something fun to do. That's why when I heard that she had a sexual affair, I was completely shocked. She claims that the sex with the AP was nothing special. They did it 7-8 times. She said it was all pretty vanilla, mostly quickie style from behind, on APs living room couch, and once in the back of our van. He never went down on her (she rarely lets me do it either), and she did give him brief oral a couple times because he "shoved it in her face". I've told her numerous times that I didn't believe her, why would she have an affair just to have vanilla quickie sex on a couch? She's got me for that! She swears up and down that I have all the sexual details. She says that their quickie sex was the same as our quickie sex, but that she has had way better sex with me when we actually go for it. I guess I have to just accept that answer.

She said that she truly was not in it for sex at all. She fell for this guy. He was well read, well spoken, had an unnecessarily diverse vocabulary, and they bonded over things like literature, philosophy, etc. She thought he was great. She claims that she was kind of disappointed that the affair turned sexual, but by then he had a hold on her. She said she didn't want to admit it to herself, but once they started having sex, she knew he was just like any other man. Apparently the last time they had sex, a few days before DDay, he tried to do something that is a strict NO NO for her. She says she yelled at him to not go anywhere near that particular area (I'm sure I don't need to paint y'all a picture). She said at that point, she was certain she didn't want to have sex with him again, and was starting to have the "what am I doing?" conversation with herself. Don't know if I believe that either.

The point is that the sexual part of the A was so insignificant for my WW. She lived it, she has the ability to see it for what it really was, and assign it's significance based on her own experience. Me... I can only imagine. Maybe it was boring vanilla sex. Or maybe it was, as we say, PORN STAR SEX. I'll never fucking know.

It's not like my wife and I never have sex. We actually do it twice a week on average. The other day she seemed to be "satisfied" by the end. And a few times recently, during sex she has come out of her shell in ways that she hasn't for a few years. Certain things that were off the table for awhile are now slowly coming back. But that's not her love language at all. Sex is just sex for her. A means to an end. Something fun to do. I'm like RideItOut, I think it's great, and I would happily get some every single day.

Didn't mean to turn this thread into a sex talk, that wasn't really the point. Our marriage is still quite a mess. I feel like I did the hard 180 after DDay, and that's where we've been in our marriage since November of 2016.

[This message edited by Fenderguy at 10:36 PM, January 18th (Friday)]

When I first started reading and posting on SI - my husband was not happy - said it would just keep me in the A. I pointed out that if he had not fucked another woman I wouldn't know this site even existed,

He thought it was a site where BS just bashed the WS. Played the victim and went on and on about how they had ruined their lives - just wallowed in their hurt and pain.

I explain to him it was a support site for people to share their fears, their devastation with others who truly understand what it is like to be cheated on. It helped calm me - made me realize what I was feeling was normal and I wasn't going bat shit crazy. I also explained the other forums and showed him the Stupid Picture Friday post - he actually enjoyed the pictures. I even down load some of them and send text then to him when he is at work to help brighten his day.

Although he feels better about the site - I told him at five years out I read more to try and give help and to keep up with others I've come to recognize. He still does not read any of the post - thinks it still makes him ashamed that his A has caused me so much pain I had to turn to strangers for support and guidance. I just thank God that I did.

My WH tried to insist I stay away from SI and other type boards because I insisted he stay away from his SA recovery boards (where he met and maintained contact with OW).

He wanted to be on equal footing too.

I told him that place was earned and would not be easy; cheating made it that much harder for him when all along he thought he was taking the easy way to glory...

Egos.

Glad you retracted the apology. She needs to understand this is traumatic for the BS and something you will never forget.

Fender, I have two thoughts. First, it sounds from your description like there might be less than full honest communication from you to her about how you're feeling, though in fairness to you there may be ambivalence about what you're feeling and you'd like to figure that out.

So, to solve that, you use IC to sort out your own feelings, and MC to facilitate clear communication with your WW.

Second, her flippancy about the sex, and her low interest in sex compared to yours (or, frankly, compared to her AP's), compounded with her seeming inability to grasp why sex is a big deal, sounds like a classic case of a low sex drive partner married to a normal sex drive partner, something often described as a sex-starved marriage. This would be a problem even if there was never an A, but in your case it sounds like you have been drifting along complacently around this, but the A galvanized the issue for you, which naturally it would for any man.

There is a really good TED Talk on YouTube about this by Michele Weiner-Davis. Bettina Arndt also has one called "Sex Starved Husbands". I'd suggest you watch them. It will take about an hour total.

My H did not have sex during his last Affair. OW confirmed it.

They did kiss but it was mostly an EA.

Doesn’t make any difference - he still demanded a Divorce over an EA. He believed he was in love with her.

No difference IMO - cheating is cheating.

I think your tititle says a lot. Busted.You apologized and made empty promises because you’ve been hiding this site, clearing your history, and not communicating, and sneaking around and dishonesty makes you feel guilty. As other posters have said, your wife dropped the ball by not being empathetic, etc etc, and she owes you a heartfelt apology and has to do the work on her side of the street, but you also chose to knowingly lie and say you wouldn’t post anymore rather than speaking honestly about your needs and feelings, that snowballs into further distance, more resentment, etc.

Both of you could take this event and turn it into an open dialogue and better communication, if you turn towards each other.

[This message edited by Poppy704 at 9:33 AM, January 19th (Saturday)]

My WS once said something along the lines of, "...and you spend too much time on that website that says all men are bastards!". He got an eye roll.

It's funny how they only want the BS to listen to THEIR brand of crap, and become worried if they think they might be influenced by anyone else.

I think one of the reasons our WSs don't understand why we need SI long after the initial dust settles is that they fail to understand their betrayal is about so much more than sex. Whether it was a "love" affair or meaningless, or vanilla or porn star sex, the BS is left with a huge emotional mess to untangle. There are the HUGE issues of finding out your life partner for some amount of time turned you into an obstacle to their happiness, the one to get around, to deceive, to lie to. Oh, it was exciting? So it was a fun game to avoid my devastation and the end of our partnership, friendship, and coparenting (for those of us with kids). We are left wondering am I attractive enough? good enough in bed? am I dull, boring? what? why was the AP(s) better? For many of us our spouse is/was our best friend. Oh so that got tossed out too. How would the WS feel if they were so significantly betrayed by their BFF? There is the huge insult that when faced with divorce and the loss of half their shit they are suddenly remorseful?? Oh, so our marriage is nothing more than the price tag it now has in court? Maybe they aren't remorseful, and leave you for the AP - you are left wondering how you are so disposable. Many if not most of us were gaslighted and have to relearn how to trust our own instincts, and foolish that we ever doubted them in the first place. After I busted my XH I felt betrayed, ugly, stupid, foolish, and worthless. I am none of those things. It was a LOT to unpack - two years of weekly therapy and years of antidepressants. Fuck him.

FFS of course we are destroyed. Of course we still need SI. It is SO MUCH MORE THAN SEX. It is betrayal, self doubt, confusion, mistrust of others that spreads far beyond the marriage. It is nothing short of trauma. Just because they don't want to be held accountable doesn't mean we don't need to process our pain and confusion for as long as it takes.

Thanks so much for all the responses, it means more than I could ever say. Last night I told her that I am going to keep doing what I need to do to help myself heal from her A, and that includes reading and posting whatever the fuck I feel like. She actually apologized to me for trying to put restrictions on me. She is afraid that this website is preventing me from moving forward. She understands that I am in a state of limbo, even at 2 years out, and that she is afraid this causes me to relive my feelings about the A over and over again. She's not wrong, but I'm not going to stop posting here.

She was much more open to having a productive conversation last night. I told her how I feel like she moved on too fast, because she wanted to remove herself from the pain and humiliation that the A caused her as quickly as possible. I told her I feel like she kind of left me behind. That made her cry a little bit. I told her that I sometimes fantasize about being single, and being free from being bogged down by her decisions and the coverup that followed. That made her cry a lot. She says that when she thinks of the future she pictures us spoiling our grandchildren, traveling and doing all the things we can't now because of our busy lives, and she just assumed I was on the same page.

It was a conversation that needed to take place a year ago. She wants to go back to MC, and I suppose that's a good idea. This morning she ran to the grocery, and when she came home there was a card she bought for me with a long, heartfelt message written in it. The thing that kills me about it... the first place my mind went was "is she love-bombing me to distract me from something else?" I still have literally zero trust. I basically feel like if she has another affair, that's fine... then at least I won't be in limbo anymore. I'll fucking leave.

FUUUUUUUCK..... I am all over the place! I'm actually looking forward to MC, going to call next week.

Fender it actually made me tear up that you two had a productive vulnerable conversation, that’s so wonderful!I think if you shared with her that you HOPE that her card was sincere, but you fear that it’s love bombing, it will get you that much closer to her understanding your pain and what it’s going to take for you to heal.

Best of luck with the MC.

I am approaching the end of year 6 of my discovery of my WH EA's. This site has been my saviour, my soft place (sometimes a 2X4 )and has helped me immensely. My WH doesn't know that I am on this site because for me it is the one place that I feel SAFE. If at any time in the future he learns that I am here, and is opposed to, or asks me to go off of it or worse demands that I get off it, that will be my line in the sand. We revisit the trauma, triggers etc for years to come because of our spouses terrible choices and for my WH to ask or demand that I leave this site is not acceptable. I'm with the others here as well, we need to pay it forward.