SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

What initiated it was her decision to not invest energy into you as a sexual man.

You guys are turning this A into a M problem or husband problem and it isn't. It is a her problem. She wasn't confident in her own skin and so she sought out multiple resources for it. As far as sex goes...being a WS...I have come to learn a thing or two about my wife and sex. It is not my wife's jobe to invest energy into me as a sexual man. It is a marriage thing. A two way street. If I want more sex, then I need to invest energy into her as well. Decreasing her stress. Freeing her up to have the desire, energy, and want to have sex. What works for me doesn't work for her. I relieve stress through sex. She needs to be stress free to really enjoy it. Often times, in a marriage with young children and a wife that may take on more of the work load of caring for those children-stress becomes a big reason why "she isn't in the mood". When it becomes that way in my house, I stop and ask myself..what have I done to help her? Not saying this is the case with your wife. Just saying, it is more than what some of you are stating about sex and a wife just delivering. Learned that from her and from MC. My wife is more "in the mood" when I free her up and take care of the dishes and doing HW with the kids.

You guys are turning this A into a M problem or husband problem and it isn't. It is a her problem. She wasn't confident in her own skin and so she sought out multiple resources for it. As far as sex goes...being a WS...I have come to learn a thing or two about my wife and sex. It is not my wife's jobe to invest energy into me as a sexual man. It is a marriage thing. A two way street. If I want more sex, then I need to invest energy into her as well.

Zug, respectfully, this post is oxymoronic. First, I'm not turning an A into a M problem. Fender has posted about many things, including his ongoing frustration with his M, a frustration that existed prior to the A in much the same form as today. My post was looking at that issue, separate from the A.

I pointed out that this tension is something that happens enough in marriages that it is documented and marital counselors post videos about it. It's a somewhat common patters.

I then go on to say that his WW's response to this was completely the wrong one. Instead of trying to fix her marriage, she reached outside of it.

My point is that from Fender's posts, it appears that his wife is still failing to to the things that she needs to do to fix the underlying issue, which still exists from before the A but now is more acute because of the A. I agree that it is up to the wayward spouse (here, Fender's WW) to be the proactive one in terms of repairing sex.

It is a cart/horse issue, I understand. In the usual pattern, though, the wife is the "horse" (used only in terms of saying she is in front of and driving the issue) because her sex desire diminishes, often after kids, and she therefore fails to care for her husband as a sexual man. In turn, husbands get resentful, withdrawn, angry, distant. In turn, wives feel even less sexual. Etc.

Can she join us and be part of the journey?

It's not here to tear her down. It's here to build her up. Stick around Fender, we need your thoughts. She need not feel excluded.

[This message edited by pureheartkit at 1:33 PM, January 20th (Sunday)]

Fenderguy,

Stop. Just stop.

What have you done to heal? You and only you can heal you. Your W can't. Even if she feels all your pain, the pain is still yours, and you're still stuck with processing it.

What do you want from your M? What do you want from your W?

Those are questions only you can answer - and when you do, you need to share your answers with your W. I understand you may not be able to do that right now ... and a good IC can help.

MC may help, if the MC is good. But be prepared - a good MC is going to tell you that you're the only one who can heal you, that your W can't comprehend the pain she caused (because she can't read your mind), and that even if she could, you have to do the work of processing your own pain.

***********

You want to leave when your kids are in college? That's going to be pretty traumatic for them when they're in pretty stressful situations.

But why doom yourself to years of no sex? Why not do what you need to do now?

(Frankly, IMO what you need to do now is heal and ask your W to be in your M with you. If she agrees, great - you can R. If she doesn't, great - you can D now and move yourself on.)

[This message edited by sisoon at 10:42 AM, January 21st (Monday)]

Please read Sisoon's post and then read it again, and then one more time.

He said everything I was going to say.

Minus the real first and last rules of R are no more lies of any kind. You have to be willing to strip down to basics, and really discuss your feelings. If you can't then you will never have hope of a real meaningful R. When she saw you were on you could have shared right then and there that you aren't healed and probably won't be for a long time, and to ask you to never get on here where you are getting good support is unreasonable and the answer would be no.

There is nothing wrong with asking for what you need. If you can't learn to do this, you will never heal and you will never be happy.

I pointed out that this tension is something that happens enough in marriages that it is documented and marital counselors post videos about it. It's a somewhat common patters.

As has been done with my point. Hence why I said my MC pointed that out. The point being that it isn't the wife failing and causing the problems in all situations as you suggest.

But what we both state is moot since we don't know his wife's reasons from her mouth. WE as men can speculate all we want about the sexual breakdown of wives wanting sex in a marriage doesn't matter without the input of wives.

I just disagree that is what initiated it. I think it was more than him (husband) wanting her in a sexual way. Many cheaters cheat on marriages where the spouses are having sex. With her attitude about SI, it seems she has more of a self esteem/confidence issue long before he became resentful because she wasn't supplying sex in prior marriage conditions. That isn't on him or the marriage or him wanting her sexually. That is on her own character.

I feel that as far as the sexual thing goes, things are improving slowly. But she's never going to be hot for it. It's always going to be something to do for fun, not for intimacy and not because she's horny. I am accepting that. And as I've said, it's not like I don't get any sex. We do it twice a week most weeks, unless it's that time of the month. The more I talk to friends about sexual frequency, the more I realize that twice a week actually is pretty good. Saturday night we had sex, and she did not hate it lol. I think things are just gonna be what they're gonna be with her. "Porn Star Sex" is just not on the table for me.

Our communication is alright, but needs to be much better. I need to be better about voicing my concerns. She agrees that we need to go back to MC, with somebody different. I suppose that what I ultimately want is to be happy with the mother of my children, and we can all just be one big happy family for the rest of our lives. I told her that I don't feel like we are on that path right now, that we have some fundamental things that must change in our M. If I'm being honest, I feel better about our chances of staying together than I did during our anniversary in 2016, when we had the big fight. That was the moment I was more certain than anything that we were going to get divorced. Funny thing is that I don't have the slightest recollection of what the fight was about! I just know it was a BIG ONE! haha

I tried to suggest to her to try posting on SI, even told her about the Wayward forum. I told her that some of the most helpful and insightful people on this board are WWs like herself. It's not just a bunch of people saying "FUCK THAT CHEATING BITCH!!!" Online forums in general have never really been her thing. Whereas I'm probably a member of 20 different forums, varying everywhere from Agriculture to different bands I'm a fan of, to a Star Wars forum, to unfortunately this forum as well.

What I'm hoping to get out of MC is to point us in the right direction, and help us open up some helpful, productive dialogue. Most of the time I have honestly forgotten that she chose to have sex with another man. Yes, she did betray me by doing it, but I don't really think about the actual sex any differently than I think about the fact that she had sex with her college boyfriend before she and I ever met. As long as she's not holding back details of "PORN STAR SEX", and that I know all the details (I think I do), I'm not really that bogged down by the sexual details of her A. I think the MC needs to help me convey to her all the ways this has damaged me, and maybe even help me understand it better myself.

FG,

From what you wrote I gather that you have stayed in the same house and school district?

If that's true then your life is loaded with triggers, especially if your kids continue to go to school with OMs kids.

Have you driven him away.

Get a polygraph before you invest any more years in your marriage.

"Porn Star Sex" is just not on the table for me.

I don't have one married/in a single relationship male friend that has "Porn Star Sex". The only time that even was sex like that was back in our early 20s. Just saying man. We are twice a week too. It is a norm for many of the married couples I know. I am not complaining because after being here and seeing couples go months and also I being a previous wayward with two young kids and both working twice a week is good. When it happens it is done right.

I am sure the sex stuff is emasculating and I see that here. I also have seen betrayed men focusing on that when it comes to the whys. I am just saying from a male wayward it wasn't about that with my APs. It really was self esteem issues for both women and words can go really far. Not just even words, but the undivided attention. Think about it. What type of person needs that much attention to get through their day? They like to blame the men and marriages, but when it comes down to it both women had big time self esteem issues. They NEEDED tons of attention. Not just from their significant others and me, but from all their co-workers, customers, and even the guy stocking the milk in the cooler. If there is one thing I have learned from this, no person man or woman wants to admit they have such low self esteem, confidence, and self respect. It isn't like they walked up to me and said, "Hey, I have no self esteem. Let me flirt with you so you can build me up." It was flirt and tease. Give me attention. I just thought they were carefree and fun. Looking at it after Dday, I realize that they were needy and desperate. A confident person doesn't have to draw attention to themselves. A confident person doesn't respond to unwanted attention either by engaging with them.

I know you are focusing on MC, but what about IC for her? If you are doing your part. Reaching out. Trying to communicate. Make things work. Is that really a you or marriage problem? Or is that a her problem? She doesn't want to face who she became and what she did. That is self problems. You can't make her do that. She has to choose to take that extra step of facing herself. That is an IC issue.

Thank you for posting here, your healing process is actually part of mine. You should never apologize for healing, your WW is why you are here and she knows that. She is afraid of losing you- SI is a place she doesn’t understand and clearly fears. I thought the heartfelt card was a positive sign - she heard you. Encouraging her to join the community is interesting, would you still be able participate In the way you need if she was here too?

MC is important- the pain and damage of her A is still raw and I think your WW wife simply wants to leave it behind which is hurting you. She doesn’t understand this yet but needs to. Finding a good MC is not easy, been through a few. Ours only does marriage counseling, mostly infidelity, has 35 yrs experience and holds my WH accountable for his shit - she is the best I have ever worked with. It is also a place where we start emotional conversations - effective communicaton is something we simply can’t do by ourselves.

You seem dissatisfied with the frequency of sex, Or Is it something else that is missing? Express your needs to her - open the conversation. If you haven’t talked about it She probably thinks everything is fine because it is regular.

She cheated and just wants you to forget. Infidelity changes your life it is not something you “just move past”

It is part of your marital history. She made that choice when she cheated. The cheater needs to own the responsibility of making it part of the relationship history. And nope forgiving does not mean you never talk about the A. IMAO BS and WS are never on the same ground. Character is much easier to keep than to rebuild.

Just tell her you have thought over her request and need clarity about why she insists you stop visiting. Be calm. Tell her that your focus is on a healthy, loving relationship and this site helps with that. Tell that her cheating is a wound that you live with but when it hurts you turn to your support group. Honesty is always best.

She feels threatened by people knowing your story. There are harsh things said here sometimes. You use what you need and leave the rest

Keep your emotions out of it and explain these are your coaches.

Fenderguy, I've got a story that'll make you feel better...

I've been working my way through the EA my wife had with an old friend who reached out to her on FB. My wife is bipolar and is in IC heavily, and I had been getting the truth out of her slowly. There were several things I KNEW were false, and I went into her phone to verify without her knowledge.

I journal regularly, talking about my feelings and what I know, as well as the evidence I've got, and keep all of my evidence and journals on a private google drive.

About 2 weeks ago I was setting up an appointment with a new counselor for myself, and had copied and pasted the entire 55+ page journal into an email. I neglected to clear the computer's memory by copying something else. That night, she went to the computer to do some schoolwork and thought she copied something and hit CTRL+V in a new word document. The ENTIRE journal pasted, with the words "So, in her texts to him she said..."

She came to me and told me that she knew I'd been in her phone and had "invaded her privacy."

I laid it all out to her, and told her that there were no more secrets and that I knew it ALL. I needed to know it ALL to begin healing, and now there was nothing she could think was hidden any longer.

It led to probably the best conversation we've had about the EA, and, while I hadn't wanted her to know, it's the best thing that could have happened.

She cheated, I had to know, had to have whatever support I needed. You did too, nothing to feel ashamed or bad about.

Late to the party, but in reading your posts Fenderguy - you don't have a dead bedroom, and I am not sure that it's actually porn star sex you are looking for. It sounds like to me that you just want to feel like she craves you, desires you, she misses your touch.

She made you feel undesired by her affair, and I am not sure you will ever get to later stages of healing unless she doesn't just demonstrate all that but mean it so that you can truly feel that. I am mostly typing this in the case she ever does read. It may not fix things but I can tell by reading without it there is little to zero chance. And, I don't think this is uncommon for any BS - it might not be sex, but whatever makes them feel most loved, whatever it is that they crave the most in the relationship.

If I hadn't come to this site, I wouldn't have understood this...though it seems like common sense to me now. Maybe Mrs. Fender finding this site will make her curious enough to read and maybe she will connect the dots.

I am sorry if I have missed something here Fender. But I remember your thread about how you had read your WW's email to her friend about how you've reconciled and how that led you two to talk about the rugsweeping.

And now this again? I mean what part of that earlier conversation did not make it clear to your WW that you are still in the same place, that she has grown to think now that you are in a good place?

As far as I see it, either your WW is absolutely poor at comprehension or you are doing the rugsweeping for her, that she actually thinks you are healed. What is happening here?

The A was over 2 years ago, she thought we had moved on, etc. Somehow, I ended up apologizing to her! She manipulated the conversation to make me the bad guy.

Err ok. Sounds like a happy marriage where there will be no chance of reoffending..

It has been 5 years and I think about his betrayal every single day.

Every. Single. Day.

Funny how waywards are shocked at how deep the hurt runs.

If my husband were to ever suggest that I need to “put it in the past” and not be on this site I would straight up leave him.

I don't usually like to talk about the sexual aspect of these things because I am one of those who doesn't find it all that important. Don't get me wrong. I really like sex. My fwh is very good at it. One of the top 3 reasons I married him. But, I don't need it. Btw, sex is not a love language. Physical touch is, which could include sex, but other kinds of touch is more important.

I am confused by the statement that your ww has sex just for fun, but doesn't really want or like it. If she doesn't want it and doesn't really like it, why would it be fun for her to do?

Also, I have to agree more with zugzwang than bftg. I do think it's up to both partners to show each that they find each other interesting, attractive, and sexually desired. However, I don't think it's fair to say that the woman has slacked off when she becomes tired, stressed, and/or overwhelmed with life, kids, work, whatever and doesn't pursue or initiate sex as often. I think that is a perfect time for the man to step up and take some of that load off, even if it means he's doing way more of his share. I also think it works the other way, too. At the end of the day, if you want something, you have to make it happen. You cannot expect another person to do it for you.

For example, I've been married for 19 years. My love language is quality time. My husband knows this, but that is not my husband's, so it doesn't come instinctively to him. If I sit around waiting for him to pay attention to me when I feel neglected, I'll be waiting forever because he'sbusy with his love language, acts of service. I need to tell him.

That doesn't address the issue that I'm getting. It seems it's not a lack of sex, but the perceived lack of interest and enthusiasm. FWIW, sex usually begins in the brain for women. They need to feel an intellectual/emotional connection to the other person no matter how physically attractive that person may be.

Also, maybe trying to find ways for sex to be more enjoyable for her would help. Many women cannot orgasm from vaginal sex alone. They need clitoral stimulation. Just my 2 cents as a married woman.