SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

It’s interesting how (in my situation) that at Dday1 he ended it but not willingly (because he was still emotionally committed to her).

At DDay2 when I had enough and no longer cared and told him I was Divorcing him, he dropped her cold. Never spoke to her again. Zero contact.

When he saw me stand up to him and take control - funny how fast the A was over. Before that he was convinced she was the “one” and I was being kicked to the curb.

In my opinion the success of the Marriage comes from the Betrayed spouse coming from a place of power and strength.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 6:47 AM, February 7th (Thursday)]

He does not need or deserve "closure". He wants to contact his affair partner. I call "BULLSHIT"! He goes complete NC or he goes. Period.

I agree with the others.....he is continuing to abuse you with infidelity. My WH told me that he thought his skanky whore would never lie to him. HELLO????? He had caught her in multiple lies. This is how much denial he was in.

You need to take control here. He can get out and mourn on his own or in IC, NOT to the person whose life he exploded. What a selfish ass!!

He came to me and brought up the fact that to move forward he needed closure.

This is a manipulation, even worse, it's an extortionary one... and it's done at YOUR expense. There's nothing in that request which is good for you or that considers your needs at all. I'm not saying it's necessarily done with malice. Typically, it's more akin to an addict's attempt to get a fix.

There's a biochemical payoff to affair behavior, not only from the release of hormones and adrenals at orgasm, but also from feeding the limerence which jacks up the ego. He's asking you to ENABLE him and he's putting it in bartering terms. This will set the tone for the rest of your relationship. If you allow him to put his own needs ahead of yours, that will be the continued norm.

We all want to believe we're generous and erudite in the ways of the world. But this may be one area where NO TOLERANCE pays off, even if you lose the relationship. If you're not setting the terms for what kind of treatment you'll accept, other people will do it for you by default.

((hugs)) I know it's hard to set boundaries. We've all been there.

Nope, nope and nope! No way in hell was I willing to accept one ounce of his "pain" over his choice to dump his whore, and the loss of his bullshit fantasy life.

THIS.

Is your WH in IC to get to the root of why he strayed to begin with? If he's pining for the OW and you're in essence "dealing with it" - without counseling, he's going to find another OW to fill the holes in his proverbial bucket.

He shared it in a moment of "So you want honesty well you got it". To hear this was a relief. It humanized him. It let me know he's not a narcissist or sociopath and that she was feeling bad too.

This simply a form of gaslighting you - and doing it brilliantly.

He has you actually sympathizing with him and his adultery partner.

This is sociopathic manipulation.

He has has successfully made himself a victim in your eyes.

He has “legitimized” his adulterous sex-for-compliments arrangement to you as some actual profound, deep, and meaningful relationship - and now you feel you must help him overcome his “loss”.

It seems that you are still steeped in his world of infidelity.

I cannot stress enough that you must get completely outside of all his rationalizations, bullshit reasonings, and self-victimization in order to see it for what it really is.

Honestly if it were me it would be difficult but simple.

I’d tell him “I comprehend that you are telling me you had an emotional connection with her and need closure and to grieve the loss. I cannot be a partner with someone who is going through that. You have lost me thru your actions just as much if not more as you have lost her. If you are not grieving the loss of our marriage I cannot be a part of rebuilding it.

You can grieve her all you want but not as my husband. When you are over her and see her as the threat she was to our relationship, let me know and I will at that time let you know if I am willing to try and reconcile. In the meantime I will be working on my healing on my own as I have a broken heart to mend and someone pining away for another cannot be part of that process.”

I’m sorry if that’s not what you are looking for but to me it’s an honest approach and recognizes the pain his infidelity and subsequent grieving has caused.

I wish you well.

There was no grief for my WH...the A was over for more than a year and he was glad to be rid of her...HOWEVER, she had made attempts to spark it up a few times and he didn't respond.

There were no real feelings other than the high of an addict.

I'd be damned if I helped him in any way mourn the loss of his AP.

I am helping him deal with his addiction as he is being treated by a counselor who specializes in SA.

Please know that I'm saying this gently. I'm glad you found SI and I hope you will keep reading. I see from another response that your DDay was only 2 weeks ago? He betrayed you and your children in the worst possible way. But already, you're feeling sorry for your WH. Please make sure you're in IC, and talk with a professional about co-dependency.

Yes, your WH is a master manipulator. And I think you're still in the shock/denial stage. I get it, I really do. You want so badly for this to go away so you can go back to the life you thought you had. Be careful with that strong desire to sweep it all under the rug. He's sad because he's still in the fog with OW. It's the forbidden love, Romeo and Juliet

I think most WS would say they still love their BS, so that's not really the issue. Keep in mind that in an A, they don't "share a whole relationship." It's a fantasy, with exciting sex, feeling young and desirable with no worries about kids, bills, or reality. He got to have his fun, and now he gets sympathy from you because he misses the OW. Think about that for a minute.

I hope you take it slowly and get the whole story before being so quick to move on. Like dust under the rug, it's still there and will come out eventually. Please take care of yourself and your boys.

If I'd had to "help" him through his "break up", or be understanding of his heartbreak over losing her, I'd have thrown up all over him. I didn't, and still don't, a flying fuck about how hurt he felt. I still divorced the jackass, but if he'd pulled this woe-is-me shit on dday, I'd have divorced him immediately instead if suffering through 3 months of false reconciliation. If they are that heartbroken, cut their ass loose and let them be with their schmoopie. Anything less is basically letting them shit on you. JMO.

[This message edited by StillLivin at 8:43 PM, February 7th (Thursday)]

Keptmyword said it all in a nutshell. Read and read again.

There is no "whole relationship" in an affair. It's a bullshit, unicorn fantasy.

If he's grieving, he's not R material. Why? Because he should be grieving WHAT HE DID TO YOU AND YOUR PAIN...not his bullshit fantasy whore. I'm sorry to speak so crudely but it is the truth. YOU are the one he should be in pain for. What they had was NOT real and does NOT deserve a single moment of grief.

I’m with Chamomile on this.

I would add that it is natural given the dopamine drip feed of the affair that there is going to be withdrawal effects biochemically, which are exacerbated given the post A reality check they’re having to face about themselves and the fact they can’t top up by trying to get the illicit rush from the A. There is therefore a post A depression that is not about missing the person but missing ‘it’ and whatever ‘it’ did in terms of filling a void that they now cannot fill that ‘easy’ way.

If your WS is educated to see that element of the withdrawal effect (and simply therefore the chemistry of it) and can therefore de-romanticise and depersonalise ‘it’ from ‘her’, it will be much easier for both of you.

Of course there is loss involved: loss of fantasy self, loss of fantasy bubble, loss of ego-strokes, loss of the excitement of the illicit, loss of his image as hero, loss of self respect, loss of external source of validation, loss of mirroring, sense of loss of new or other self etc etc

Rather than mourn an unspecified ‘relationship’ it is better to be very specific and name the losses, see them for what they really are, and find ways to replace their anyway dubious value to the WS. And as well as naming the losses, one can also name the gains of having ended it, which need identifying and enumerating during this period to make it easier for both of you.

And instead of using the word ‘break-up’, perhaps use the word ‘breakthrough’

[This message edited by Edie at 3:18 AM, February 8th (Friday)]

Something I read on here a long time ago helped tremendously.

No contact is closure. Closure is no contact.

He has to find closure within himself. But asking you to witness his pain over another person, and a relationship that parasitised yours is inhumane. I know the first few months are excruciating. I blamed myself. If you’re making space for his feelings about AP, you’re taking away space for you and your healing. You have to come first.

Please take care, and keep posting. You’re at the start of a very bumpy ride.

[This message edited by littleAvocet at 3:31 AM, February 8th (Friday)]

I'm an endless well of caring and grace when it comes to those I love. I have been quite gracious through this process.

I fear that you are performing one of the many and varied pick-me dances. You are trying to demonstrate that you are the more worthy because of your ability to be compassionate and your deep understanding.

Your husband betrayed you in the worst possible way. You have no obligation to see him through any of his suffering. Only your suffering is of consequence.

This is very very fresh for you and sadly, you truly have months to go before you will recognize exactly what your husband has done.

My suggestion is to turn your deep reserves of care and compassion back onto yourself. You are the injured party. Take care of your broken heart. It is the heart that matters.

What’s happening is that you want to show your husband how gracefully you’re dealing with this as a way of “pick me, I’m always by your side no matter what”. What is happening in reality is that your WH will take it as a green light to continue to step all over you and put himself first, no matter what those needs are, including continued contact of some sort. Remaining “friends” or some shit like that because the WH matters most and still focuses on himself seeing that the BS puts no boundaries in place to say “either you stop or you get out”.

My WH didn’t mourn his loss. He didn’t have too, he maintained contact as “friends” without my knowledge of course. He continued to get his highs from the AP who’s shoulder he was crying on about how hard it was at home after dday 1. And she was of course supporting him by saying “I just want you to be happy, your wife is abusive for controlling your communication avenues (they couldn’t talk at all outside work anymore as he was fully transparent), you’re in a toxic marriage (turned toxic by their affair), your wife should trust you”. 😳 It didn’t cross his mind that she was invested in our marriage breaking up. Until she gave him ultimatums because that’s what friends do right? They want you to be happy only if happiness benefits them.

So no mourning needed. But he was focusing on himself, his pain, his needs (you need to move on so we can be happy). 😳

On dday 2 when he confessed to maintain contact I was done. I am a very proud person. I would have never stayed with a WH mourning his illicit lover. My idea of happiness isn’t spending my life with a man who is in love with another woman. On dday 2 my WH understood I meant business.

I’ve spent months between dday 1 and dday 2 asking for a divorce while he reassured me he loves me and only me and pls let’s work on this. I gave him the option of a marriage of convenience or an open marriage. I actually offered to have an amiable split where he would get more than me in the divorce just to leave me find my peace with my kids (deep down I knew something wasn’t right, I just had no proof). He denied all of it. So as you can see I was trying to be graceful and just give him what he wanted so he would stop abusing me emotionally.

The moment I put those boundaries in place my WH switched. He understood I meant business. He understood that I am done. That he had to change my mind in order for me to give him another chance. Did he make me change my mind? He’s been the model WH since then. I go on 3 months deadlines at a time. Every 3 months I reassess if I still want him in my life. My needs come first and I guess the mourning and loving feelings for the AP ended when he realised I am the prize and I will not tolerate any disrespect anymore from anyone.

So until you find your bitch boots, not to for him but for you, and mean it, I’m afraid your WH will continue focusing on his needs and wants at the expense of yours. Even if he gets over this affair, do you want to be in a marriage where his needs always trump yours regardless of the effect it has on you. Think about that.

[This message edited by Luna10 at 5:29 AM, February 8th (Friday)]

you should not feel bad for him for grieving his ap. it was not a real relationship and if he is really remorseful he would be upset with himself for what he did to you. I am a former ww. never did I feel sad about getting rid of my ap. they did nothing but help me become someone I didn't need to be.

Sorry bbygrl but that is complete at utter bullshit.

I've been here a long time, and the reason you don't see it talked about is because it is bullshit.

Honestly honey I would encourage you to get some IC, because it sounds CoD as hell, and you are enabling him from NOT doing the real work he needs to do.

As someone who attempted to help my H do the work initally let me say it does not work. They have to do it on their own, and the sooner you find your strength and set some reasonable boundaries, the better off you will be.

Closure is keeping your pants buttoned and zipped.

He is just missing his dopamine high. We humans have hell telling the difference between love and a chemical f*ck.

Closure = closure legs.

bbygrl, we really care...and I know it's hard to read some of these posts, but understand that we have BTDT in some capacity and can see through a lot of crap that we didn't know was crap before...

(((HUGS)))

I saw an email shortly after Dday saying "I don't know how I'm going to live without her in my life" in reference to his EA AP who lived in another country. I was furious and wanted to

I took the same approach that ibonnie took. I asked him what he was missing. I asked him if he thought the "relationship" was real. Did she deal with the day to day BS that I was dealing with? And then I blasted him with all of his faults that she knew NOTHING about. He saw real quick how ridiculous it was to think he was in love with her. After beginning IC he informed me that he was never in love with her. He realized he was in love with a fantasy and in love with the feeling that escaping reality gave him. THAT was what he really was missing when he said he didn't know how he'd live without her. He didn't want to live without his escape zone and ego kibbles. He didn't want to face reality. When he did face reality he admitted that she was not even a nice person. She wasn't someone he'd ever even be friends with in real life.

As far as the PA AP goes, he used her because she let him. It's really as simple as that. I saw their texts. Even being an exgf, there were no emotions involved in their A. It was juvenile sexting and quick hookups at her house. Before their texting turned to sexting it was him reaching out to her for attention. He was always seeking validation from women and she played his game. He clearly never missed her because as soon as she ended it he was on to the cyber friends and never looked back.

None of his interactions with other women were about the women. It was ALWAYS about him and what he got from them. It was all about the high he got. He never thought about me, or them. He only cared about himself. That core selfishness is what has to go in order to R.

[This message edited by PeaceLily210 at 9:29 AM, February 8th (Friday)]

Asking for closure with OW while expecting you to stick in the relationship would be like popping a bottle of gin at an AA meeting and expecting the others to provide ice, lime and tonic. It’s not going to happen nor have any positive effects.