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I apologize if this topic is on the sensitive side.... I just could really use some help. I’m at a loss on how to proceed.

My BS and I are at a standstill in R.

She says she believes one day she can forgive the infidelity but doesn’t know if she can get passed the fact that the AP was a different race. To me, it is irrelevant the race. Whether I cheated with a man (we are same sex marriage) or if the AP was Asian, Hispanic, etc....... the point is I betrayed her, I was unfaithful. The race factor is really affecting our recovery. Every time we have a conversation about the A and she asks questions that I have vowed to answer honestly..... the communication always goes to “but I can’t believe you f@*ked a (insert racial slur)!” BS has recently told me that her prejudice steams from something that happened in her childhood. Her and I have multiple friends of different races but her beliefs are that there should only be interracial friendships not intimate relationships.

I’m at a loss in what to do in our R. Any and All healthy, healing conversations always come back to the AP’s race.

Any suggestions or guidance would be appreciated.

Hi Hurting,

I think the main thing is that it's definitely not the time to have your BS look at her racism.

Do you think she's not as racist as this sounds and is landing on this as a place for her anger?

My BH still struggles with my AP being so opposite him. He wonders - does that mean I *really* like that other kind of person, not him? Maybe there's some of that in what she is saying.

What do you think she wants to hear when she says that? That nothing about the AP was real, that it was all about ego kibbles for you? That she is more attractive to you? That it's all about your poor coping and need for validation, nothing to do with AP?

Perhaps I can help. One of my WH aps was of a different race. Note he had always told me his beliefs were same race couples. In fact I always thought he was somewhat racist towards that race.

Then he has a 2 year affair with them. The other 2 were the same race as us. Those I have gotten over.

But the different race one had made me feel that I am so disgusting that he would prefer even someone who he always seemed to have a prejudice towards over me. That's a hard one to swallow and I too bring it back to race.

I don't think I will ever get over that one. Are we in R? Yes we are. But I don't think I will ever get over how that affair killed my self esteem at the time . It doesn't bother me most days and I am 4 years out. But that one does still sting when I think about it.

I hope this helps and you can pm any questions you have if you want.

[This message edited by SCARLETT94 at 9:05 AM, March 6th (Wednesday)]

My WS and I are white. His AP was black. I feel immensely guilty for being triggered by black women that look like his AP (not all black women, just very large ones with long fake pointy nails).

But.

I have never called her any racial slurs. Ever. I've referred to her as a whore, a dumbass, an idiot, a homewrecker, but nothing else. It never even crossed my mind.

And I have felt immensely guilty that I have this trigger now, and have wondered if that makes me somewhat racist.

The issue here, really, is that your BS is racist. And maybe you were able to ignore it before, but now you're stuck in a weird catch-22. If you try to call her out for her racism, then she's probably going to take it as an attack for being triggered or that you're somehow defending your AP. This is a tricky situation, but I think you need to somehow... as neutrally and calmly as possible... call her out on her racism. Maybe in a MC session?

[This message edited by ibonnie at 9:42 AM, March 6th (Wednesday)]

Well, racism is dangerous, period, and she should get help with that. Although you probably aren’t the person to suggest that right now.

My EXH had sex with my (then) best friend, who is very overweight. I do not have anything against overweight people at all. My best friend was overweight, obviously. And just in general I don’t judge people that are overweight nor do I think they are less than people that are not overweight or less attractive, etc. But when I found out about this I told him I couldn’t believe he had sex with “that fat b----“. It wasn’t that she was big that was the problem, it obviously didn’t matter. It was that I was hurt and angry and sad and I lashed out using the thing I knew she felt insecure about. I never called her fat (to her) but I did say it to him several times. I was just a hurt person reacting in an angry way. It doesn’t mean it is right but when a person is betrayed (sometimes) they want to point out that they are better in some way than the OP. I am thin and she was big so it made me feel in the moment like I was knocking her down a little. People that are hurt sometimes do/say hurtful things. Just my opinion/experience…

My wife's AP was black and it definitely has made me more uncomfortable than I like to admit, even to myself. I have not and would not call him names, I am not racist, but it does add to my own insecurity. As others have mentioned, I think it's the "different-ness" of the person that is most hurtful. Like, your affair wasn't about me, but you had your affair with someone who is basically the complete opposite of me in every way (partier, black guy, womanizer, etc).

I would forgive your BS for using racial slurs, I can tell you being a BS causes things to come out of your mouth that you don't expect yourself to be capable of even thinking, let alone saying. The odds are she doesn't really mean it, but if she does, then maybe it's just a deal breaker. That's a petty reason for it to be a deal breaker, and she has her own shit to work on obviously, but it doesn't change that it may very well be the case. Good luck.

Did you know prior to your affair that she was prejudiced about this race?

Prior to A, I never felt she was racist. We have always associated with each other’s co-workers (some of whom are black). Our mutual best friend is black.

Only after A did she tell me that this is a deep seeded issue for her. Said her mom had an A when she was younger with a black man & it destroyed their family. Also, that an ex girlfriend of hers from many years ago had slept with a black man after they broke up but that in hope of them getting back together after that was ruined because she lost all respect for the Ex.

I didn’t know these things prior to A, only have they recently come to light. I do believe it is a source of anger for her and also a blow to her self esteem.

We go to our MC this week, is this something that should be brought up & discussed? What can I do or say to help with any self esteem issues she is feeling?

I agree that the “different ness” can be an issue. I’m not going to touch the racism stuff because none of that is tolerated in my house and I can’t speak for it in my case. However, the COW in my case was so damn different from me. She was very materialistic - I am not. She is the queen of posting selfies and “look at me” posts on social media and I don’t think I’ve ever posted one. She was known to be a bitch around the office and until dday, I don’t think I’ve ever been known to be a bitch. I have my flaws don’t get me wrong - but this girl and I are so damn different. I just couldn’t get it. She wasn’t even that great looking. It tore me up for a long time.

As it turns out, my WH didn’t even know about the social media side of her, but I digress. When the BS sees the type of person who we were thrown away for and it’s the opposite of the things we might value in ourselves it’s a rude awakening. Maybe the things we value in ourselves weren’t valued by our WS at all? Maybe they’ve been wanting someone else the whole time. It’s hard to swallow. So, I hope it’s more of that, than the actual race if your wife digs down deep to really analyze it.

It’s really easy to fall into the trap of hating and degrading the AP. It took me a long time to stop obsessing over her myself. I hope it’s still early enough for you both that this will pass and she will stop blaming a race and realize that it was just two messed up individuals who hurt her.

Maybe some IC would help her get past her past issues with her mother and then with what you have done to add to it. I know my WH’s affair brought up a ton of FOO issues that I thought were long buried and forgotten.

This seems important:

Said her mom had an A when she was younger with a black man & it destroyed their family. Also, that an ex girlfriend of hers from many years ago had slept with a black man

Maybe that's a reason you picked a black AP? To really get at her? Were you saying "F-U, I'm going to really stick it to you" and she senses that? I have resentment on my mind as a bigger thing that I thought before - did you resent her enough to really try to hurt her as badly as you could, including digging into something from her past that really hurt?

I don't know how you think about racism, but I believe we are all born into a racist society and breathe that smog in, and to the extent that we don't actively look at and reject it, we carry racism in how we view the world. So having black friends (or a black AP or even a black spouse) doesn't really mean anything for the overall underlying racism, and in fact may be a "cover" to not looking at it. I had a black boyfriend very early, have lots of black friends, am involved in many racial justice groups, and I nonetheless have racist thoughts and attitudes that need continual examination. And many of my black friends examine their own racism - for black people - which is a result of growing up in our society. All that to say, don't blame her for racism, I think we all have it, and it's a convenient place to rest this issue which may or may not be about race at all.

It might be a good idea to ask if your MC is experienced with racially inflected infidelity, and in particular with black people, because the stereotypes about different races are so different. Perfectly good MC and IC can be uninformed about the race part and can have avoided looking at their own racism.

Edit to add This is an American POV and varies for other places. There are different groups subject to racism in different places. I assume you are American?

[This message edited by Pippin at 12:08 PM, March 6th (Wednesday)]

We go to our MC this week, is this something that should be brought up & discussed? What can I do or say to help with any self esteem issues she is feeling?

I would say no, do not bring it up with the MC, you have plenty to deal with already and it will look like you are trying to distract from the main issue (also I think you may be doing this). In time her anger towards the AP may lessen when she realizes you are her problem and not the AP.

While going to racial slurs is problematic, I can understand the anger. It's a pretty awful feeling to feel as if you aren't capable of competing with what the AP brought to the table.

Mmmm...The fixation on the racial aspect of the infidelity def speaks to something that she might want to examine in her own psyche.

My wife cheated on me in the full blown affair (13 months long) with a black woman. Never once did I fixate on the fact that she’s black and I’m Hispanic.

In my case I used whatever I thought against her. If she would have been fat I would have called her a fat pig. It doesn't make a person a racist, fatist or whatever ist because you lash out after being betrayed.

I'll call her whatever I want, for as long as I want as long as it helps me.

[This message edited by SCARLETT94 at 4:19 PM, March 6th (Wednesday)]

Well, both of my FWHs OWs were different races then me and never did I ever even think to use a racial slur in reference to them. I mean, wtf has that to do with anything? I personally just find that gross behavior. That is not acceptable language in our home. And quite frankly I couldn’t be with someone who talked like that, nor could FWH.

The hard psychological truth is that tribalism is hard wired into humans by thousands of years of evolution. Tribalism is a threat evaluation process where we visually look at someone and if they look like us, we assess that they are less likely to be from the "other" tribe and thus, less likely to kill/rape/rob us. Other tools are their language, accent, mannerisms, clothing, and so on...all are subconsciously used to assess tribal affiliations.

Race is a thing for all humans. It just is. It's in our DNA, whether we like it or not. I'm not saying it is right or wrong...it just is.

If you want to understand it, go find a race play porn site and look at the comments under the video. You will get a full dose of what race and sex do together and how it works.

[This message edited by Unbroken78 at 12:16 AM, March 8th (Friday)]

HI Hurting, how are you doing? Is the fog any better? Are you learning what your BS needs?

My X cheated with someone of a different race. It never occurred to me to be upset over her race. She was ugly, fat, intellectually stunted, and those are the things I was upset about. Oh and she was trailer trash, literally. You are married to a racist. If you can accept that about her, fine. No judgments. But you really need to dig deep and see if this is acceptable if you aren't a racist yourself, because that makes it a lot harder. Regardless, continue to figure out your why's and work on you.

It is common for a BS to suffer triggers caused by her own internal mental comparisons of her sexuality and/or sexual attractiveness to those of the AP. Naturally, physical characteristics of the AP will play a large role. Did a WW have sex with an AP with a larger penis, or a more muscular body? Did a WH have sex with an AP with bigger boobs, etc.?

Race is for some people a thing that seems exotic and attractive. If a BS has pale white skin and the AP was dark and silky, this would be something that could cause pain.

But your BW's viewpoints are outright racism. If it were me, I would not be able to sustain a relationship with a person who held those beliefs.

BH here, just for context.

Can I just point out the real reason for this post? Your BS has an issue with you sleeping with someone of a different color. Go figure! Last time I checked, a marriage is between two people. You have betrayed that, and now everyone is calling out the fact that the BS may harbor unsavory opinions against that person's skin color? Seriously?

Let's try some real talk here. I have been following this thread since it started, due to my own circumstances. My wife's AP was black as well. Sorry to say, but that is all I see. She didn't just cheat on me, she cheated with a black man. Does that make me a racist? I don't think so, but it appears that I am in a minority with that opinion. I have black friends, black coworkers (that I have hired after the affair), some of my favorite people to watch on TV are black. That does NOT mean I am all comfy cozy with them fucking my wife. I guess that must make me racist too. Even though I would not want anyone to have sex with her other than me, if said person was Asian, Latin, or white.

Add in the fact that there is some family history of a race causing trauma to her family and the same thing happens again to someone she loves? Yeah, I get why she may say some unsavoury things.

It's all too easy to bash someone for what they say when their life is falling apart. I find it hypocritical that we are all here due to cheating, and some suggest that reconciling is possible, yet racism is the problem here. Come on everyone! Stop with the political correctness, it's crap in here.

Hurting110, I'm sorry that you're here. I truely am, and hope that you both can move past this. Lord knows that I myself am trying, too. Please keep in mind that your BS chose not to be intimate with a group of people and assumed the wedding ring would mean that you would as well, by default (you know, marriage usually means monogamy). Whatever resentment she has with black people is ingrained, and you've hurt her twice. First by the betrayal, and then with who you've chosen to betray her with. I think she needs some IC, to be honest. I think that she needs to come to grips with this. There is no way that you can truly understand her pain if it never happened to you, but she is in tremendous pain. Please do not try to blameshift the fallout of your affair on racism. Although it certainly plays a factor, you two may have been no farther along if your AP was the same race as her.

Good luck!