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...and I forgot to mention that your sex drive is normal. Some people have more, some less. That doesn't equate to one group having an issue and the other not. The truth is that everyone's different and normal given their individual sets of genetic combinations. Again, take care of yourself.

How was your sex life prior to the A? I ask because I’ve had a recurring thought several times while reading your threads. Since I’ve had the thought more than once, I’m offering it on the chance it might be helpful.

I wonder if perhaps, for your WW, sex with you has become fraught; infused with feelings of self-loathing and shame and inadequacy to the point where she fears it rather than desires it.

Consider this. Her A was a species of what I sometimes internally categorize as a “low self-esteem A”. In other words, her self-esteem was already low enough that she was willing to have sex with a scumbag who said saccharine words to her.

The A ended catastrophically for her when the BOW discovered it and blew it up. Suddenly she was dumped by the AP and she also clearly saw that to him she was just another piece of ass. Whatever ego kibbles she thought she was getting from him during the A were negated by the reality that she saw after it ended, leaving in its place the void she previously felt, but now multiplied by shame and self-loathing. Over sex.

After she confessed to you, your response was to essentially abandon her sexually for a year. No sex of any sort. She had to beg and cajole you for sex. By the time sex happened, it was pretty clear that you didn’t want sex with her, that you found her sexually repulsive, and that you were only having the sex because she was badgering you. Once sex started, it also became clear that you weren’t satisfied with the level and quality of sex.

In other words, she feels shame and self-loathing about sex due to her A. She feels inadequate and unconfident sexually in terms of her sex with you. Sex is a place of shame, self-loathing, inadequacy, and failure. It’s no surprise that she doesn’t desire it.

It strikes me that, if you want to preserve the sexual aspect of your marriage – indeed, you marriage at all – the two of you need to figure out a way to re-start your sex life. Come at it with beginners’ minds. I’m not sure how you do that. One suggestion I’ve seen is that you commit to sex every day for like 30 days, some extremely high level of sex, higher that you can probably take to completion for both of you each time. This requires deliberate effort and thought, about the process of sex. It requires communication about things like what feels good, when to stop, whether orgasm is possible, etc. It requires sense of humor and humility. Since you know in advance that many of the sexual encounters will be less than mind-blowing, it removes the weight from an individual encounter.

Just one suggestion. There may be others. The point is that if she loves you and cares about you, she should be willing to put in some effort to fulfill you sexually, but as long as sex is linked emotionally to shame, pain, rejection, and failure, she will not be motivated to do so.

Let's start with whatever you are doing, it is not working.

What owningitnow is describing is what is called working on you. It is the most effective affair busting and marriage tool there is.

The only person you can control is you. The person now in control is your wife.

When you stop complaining and start building a life she will see a difference.

Fender

I think this is an opportunity to discuss this with a sex therapist. If she won’t go, at least go see one yourself just to gain an understanding of the process and be able to have the knowledge to discuss it with your W.

If it were me I’d ask her for complete honesty. Ask her if there is someone else. And if not, ask her if she’s willing to go on a journey with you to meet and work with a specialist to understand how you can restore intimacy in your life together.

I understand that you have resolved yourself to life, at least for a while, in a sexless marriage. At least one without passion in sex and love making. But I desperately wish for more for you. Whether it’s with her or someday with someone else.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 7:29 AM, June 18th (Tuesday)]

Adding to my post above, I realize that most of the elements that might make sex for your WW feel fraught are her own doing. Starting with choosing to address her low feelings by deciding to have an affair with another man rather than try to work on them with you.

However, it takes two to make a marriage function. Regardless of the cause, the solution rests on both of you. I'm mindful that part of her issue is likely her mother, who instilled a negative attitude about sex.

Fender, how are you doing?

I would tell my husband and would expect him to do the same. If I were to find out on my own it would make him look really guilty for not telling me. One of the biggest issues in my marriage has been him hiding even innocent interactions from me.

So my vote is tell her.

**oops. Didn’t realize there were 7 pages of comments and you already moved past this question. Sorry!

[This message edited by landclark at 6:00 AM, July 15th (Monday)]

I am glad Butforthegrace checked in, I have been wondering how you are as well. I hope that the recent confessions/turn of events has motivated your wife to get curious about what is causing her issues. I hope you are still around and things are improving.

Wife said that she just feels completely asexual.

What if you take $ex off the table right now and do exercises in intimacy? To me, it sounds like your W has lost that part of the connection (and that will spiral).

That it kills her inside because it causes me so much pain, and it's caused so many problems in our marriage.

As we say...actions not words. I am not saying that I don't believe she does not feel badly about this. I believe her and I have been there. But I lacked the desire to do a darn thing about it due to the state of that M. If your W wants this M; then she owes it to herself to work on finding out what is really going on with her via some professionals.

The preferred position allows her to keep that distance from you. It allows her not to connect with your eyes and allows her to escape from loving touches to you. Just an observation from my old life.

As for these folks that are coming on to you. You can shut that down quick. That first woman you spoke of - UGH. The lady KNOWS you are M, was told by your friends as well and STILL moves in? I think I would of let her know that not only is her offer not attractive but her actions are very unbecoming to her.

Thanks for checking in! I appreciate the concern and the interest in my situation. Nothing new to really report. You are right, actions speak louder than words. There have really been no actions on her part to fix anything. It’s clear to me that this is not really a problem for her unless I express that it’s a problem for me. She’s happy and content with the way things are... she’d be even more so if I would just stop showing interest in sex permanently. This is not something I think can be fixed. She is not interested in fixing it.

Summer has been insanely busy, and has taken on a life of its own. Days and weeks go by, and we’re so busy there seems to be no time for the two of us anyway. She expressed wanting to try and get a date night this weekend... for what, I don’t know. But this weekend is already booked up with various family and children obligations. I haven’t really focused on our issues too much, just trying to be a present and attentive father, and focusing on work. This suits her, as I think she truly wants a platonic roommate marriage.

I have taken a step back from the “social scene” the past month or so. I needed it, I was starting to feel out of control. NC whatsoever with the girl that was coming on to me. I told my friend I want to see her as little as possible, and he agrees. I am in no danger of a RA.

Butfoethegrace, you may be on to something that sex might be something she associates negatively in her mind after all that’s happened. She started being sexually withdrawn from me about a year before the A started, but perhaps had all that not happened, she’d have found her way back. Now, I truly do not believe it will happen. We talked about MC, but that’s all it was... talk. She probably won’t take the lead on that, because that would involve admitting fault and lack of perfection.

So basically, no changes. Keeping busy, successfully keeping myself distracted. Trying a new form of 180. She’s probably too worried about planning the kids outfits for the next 2 weeks to even notice I am doing the 180. This kinda sux! Thanks for checking in, sorry I have such a shitty update haha.

Hey man, glad you posted. Have been wondering how it was going.

Can totally relate that with kids there's hardly any time in the day. This stuff is WORK. And sometimes easier to just put on the back burner.

"She’s happy and content with the way things are... "

This is really the key issue. She is. You're not. That's not okay. Doing your form of the 180 may help you figure out what's your path back to happy and content. It does not seem to be waking her up. And you can decide when the time is to stand firm. Firm that you need to both seek whatever professional assistance (sex therapy, MC, IC) to get your marriage back where you both feel a level of intimacy that can propel you for the rest of your life, or to move on.

I'm not sure what your support network is like for your kids, i.e. if you have family who can take them for a night or a weekend, but time for both of you will help you really work on things.

Really she either doesn't get it or doesn't care. If she doesn't care that's a bigger issue. But if she doesn't get it there's hope. Hope that she can dig into her own issues and those in your marriage with you and work on meaningful change over the long term. It really is about what both of you want and figuring out if you can make those wants align. It does suck for sure. But you seem like a good guy who can make it work out regardless of the path.

I haven't replied to this post because its like beating a dead horse. Every 4 months or so its the same cycle, you have the talk, she peps up for a bit to pacify you, and make sure everything stays "ok", and its back down hill after that. Rinse, repeat. She had a sexual affair, I REALLY doubt she has zero interest in sex. She is mentally, emotionally and physically checked out of your marriage (the romantic aspect) and is ok with the friendly business arrangement you have going on.

I have said from day 1 she IS perfectly happy with status quo. She gets her house, her marriage, her kids, her life, your income and nothing for her changes, AND she doesn't have to give up any sex. Why would she complain, and if you are ok with it (which you are), why would she make an effort to change for you? You aren't willing to draw a hard line so detach, do your own thing, like you have been and drop any expectations, anger, hostility and hopes. Its sucks but that's your only choice since you want to stay married.

ETA: I've been saying the exact thing for 2 years and I still stand by it, she is staying until she doesn't have to stay anymore. I think she knows what to do and say to keep you quiet but I think your marriage is dead in her eyes.

[This message edited by pinkpggy at 2:04 PM, July 15th (Monday)]

Agree totally with hdybrh:

And you can decide when the time is to stand firm. Firm that you need to both seek whatever professional assistance (sex therapy, MC, IC) to get your marriage back where you both feel a level of intimacy that can propel you for the rest of your life, or to move on.

And to me that means she really needs to understand this is a marriage/deal breaker for you. It's not hard to understand that if she has no drive she has no real issue with the situation. At some point (and you can decide when that is), you are going to have to really lay your cards on the table. It sucks that has to be her motivation, but without that as a motivation I don't think she will seek that out on her own.

I think if the motivation could be found (no matter the source) if it's dealt with you will not be the only one who will end up happier. Removing barriers to having a fulfilling emotional, physical, and spiritual marriage with you can be a source of immense joy for her. Right now, it really sounds like probably more than one of those connections are missing and they are likely contributing to the absence or lacking in the others.

And you are still being passive aggressive with her by doing this 180 and waiting for her to notice. Communication and honesty is the way to build up the emotional and spiritual connection between you and it sounds like you are both kind of bad at it.

Your problems/needs should be as important to her as her own. And, that's what it will need to come down to. But, she can't really take that on if you are only halfway communicating with her. Sending her smoke signals.

Again, maybe you need this busy time to pass, but you need to have more of a plan than just silently resenting her and hoping she will notice.

Pink, everything you said makes perfect sense to me. It’s a logical thought process. I’ve brought this up to her many times, and it always deeply offends her.

1. How can she be completely asexual and still have a sexual affair? Her only answer to that is that she fell in love with the EA part of their A, and then felt like she had to have sex with him, or something. She claims that she never enjoyed the sex, that it felt wrong and disgusting. She says he didn’t last very long, it was all just one off quickies. She claims there was no passion, that he was a self centered pig sexually, and that he smelled bad and made weird noises. Condoms were always used. I am still not sure I believe this, but this has been the unwavering truth. He got no special “acts” that I never get. She did give him oral a couple times before the second, mostly because he just kind of put it in her face. She doesn’t REFUSE to give me oral, I just know she doesn’t want to so I rarely request it.

2. I have accused her of being checked out of the marriage. She seems absolutely flabbergasted at the notion. She then proceeds to list off all the things she does for me out of love. It’s not like she’s a heartless bitch who is mean to me. She just knows how important sex is to me, and makes next to no effort.

3. The A was almost 3 years ago. As BFTG pointed out, a lot of traumatic things have happened for her sexually in the last 3 years ago. She finds out that this man she had fallen for had only used her to get a quick, easy piece of ass... one of several. THEN, I flat out refuse to have sex with her for an entire year, despite genuine effort. THEN, we do resume sex, but I’m never happy with the results. I think in her mind it’s built up into this big mental block.

I am not making excuses for her. Frankly, I’m getting sick of living like this. I am just trying to dispel the notion that she herself is checked out of the marriage and is biding her time until she can leave. She can leave right now if she wants, I won’t put up a fight. She speaks of our future plans with enthusiasm. Talks about building our dream house one day. Talks about what kind of grandparents we’ll be. Planning future vacations, with and without kids. I think in her mind, there’s just going to come this time when everything gets easier. I know that’s not true.

Also, she has talked to her friends about sex. They all seem to have the same blah attitude towards it. They act like my wife is some kind of porn Star for having sex as much as she does. They all come from the same small town, very religious, where women’s sexuality is very much discouraged. I grew up in this town, and all my HS girlfriends were like this. I didn’t even know women enjoyed sex at all until college time, when I started meeting girls from other parts. So there’s that. Also, her parents have very much always had a very business like marriage. They have a special needs child, and literally all their efforts go into taking care of that child. They do not live together any longer, yet maintain a partnership of caring for their son, which is basically a full time job. So she doesn’t have a good example of an affectionate marriage.

Not making excuses, again. Just giving more info. I WILL NOT spend the rest of my life with a woman who doesn’t enjoy sex.

I have accused her of being checked out of the marriage. She seems absolutely flabbergasted at the notion. She then proceeds to list off all the things she does for me out of love.

What exactly? I bet if you listed them it would sound like an ad for a roommate and/or nanny.

The A was almost 3 years ago. As BFTG pointed out, a lot of traumatic things have happened for her sexually in the last 3 years ago. She finds out that this man she had fallen for had only used her to get a quick, easy piece of ass... one of several. THEN, I flat out refuse to have sex with her for an entire year, despite genuine effort. THEN, we do resume sex, but I’m never happy with the results.

Sorry, but her making a choice to sleep with someone who ended up using her, and then suffering the consequences of that choice ISN'T traumatic. It's normal. Saying it is traumatic is just an excuse.

Her position: She just knows how important sex is to me, and makes next to no effort.

Your position: I WILL NOT spend the rest of my life with a woman who doesn’t enjoy sex.

So what are you going to do?

[This message edited by WornDown at 3:28 PM, July 15th (Monday)]

I have friends that are like this as well, I do not believe your wife doesn't love you. I just think that she misses the importance of it. To her it's a bodily function. They say the same things I hear from you here - they do it enough to keep him happy - no oral in either direction, little variance, etc.

I also remember you saying that she pretty much only did it with the AP the same style as she always does (facing away).

I think BFTG could be right. I also think that there could still be the lacking of emotional/spiritual connection between you and it's not helping the situation.

I WILL NOT spend the rest of my life with a woman who doesn’t enjoy sex.

This is the strongest you have ever stated this. And, I think it's great you have that clarity. You need to state it this strongly to her. It seems like the other part I hear a lot from you is you don't really like to bring things up to her and upset her. That's a piece of the puzzle that I think is missing.

I am going to be a bit point blank here - since the affair, my husband has increasingly been very decisive, blunt at times, and kind of a bad ass. I don't mean an abusive bad ass - he is kind to me, and has been kinder than I have deserved at times. I just mean sure of himself, of what he wants, what he deserves. It's inexplicable, and will sound misogynistic of me to say - but it's a big turn on. I can't even believe I am admitting that to you all, but it's true. It's kind of a self-respect breeds respect from others thing. Not a 'he's a bad boy" or "red pill" or whatever other crap I have seen spewed here on the matter. I would like to see you be more adamant of what you deserve, and for both of you to communicate your wants and needs better.

Also, I know this gets used all the time on this site, but have you two done the love languages thing? It came to mind when you say she can list off all the things she does out of love for you, but maybe it's hard for her to see you have trouble translating acts of service to quality time or physical touch. It may also help you to understand what she needs to feel that connection and make her feel safe to let down this guard she may have gotten from the sexual trauma that has been hypothesized. I don't know that it's trauma and I don't think an affair would be sexual trauma, but maybe the whole you all not having sex for a year might have caused a build up around the issue.

[This message edited by hikingout at 3:35 PM, July 15th (Monday)]

Her parents "do not live together any longer, yet maintain a partnership of caring for their son".

Well there you go. If it works for her parents why not the two of you? You divorce her, live in separate homes, share a "partnership" of taking care of your kids, and you are free to find a woman who won't cheat on you and to have sex with.

Fender I also think her telling you the A was "disgusting", that he was "a self centered pig", there was "no passion", "it was all just one off quickies", that "he smelled and made weird noises", "condoms were always used", is all just bullshit.

If all this were true why did she keep going back? Because the EA part was so wonderful?

I'd say to her, "PULL MY OTHER LEG AND IT PLAYS JINGLE BELLS".

I think it's great that she has a vision of happiness with you. The grandkids and vacations and all of that. That tells me that she cares and wants a life with you. But wouldn't a vision of great intimacy and sex be as appealing as those dream homes? She can't see that today. But great sex and intimacy is YOUR dream home. (sorry if this sounds cheesy). All great things take a lot of work and this is one of them. It seems like she doesn't see that. And if you can outline the concrete steps (scheduling a sex therapist, booking date nights/sitters) maybe that gets the wheels out of the mud.

My WS had a conservative, religious upbringing that discouraged sexuality. And her own IC has been huge for her to unpack all of that (along with dealing with the A) and discover her identity. To disassociate sensuality from shame, specifically in a marriage.

Her hangups with sex may have little to do with you and a lot with her past and her FOO issues. You can't force someone to therapy. You can't mandate intimacy. But knowing now that her not enjoying sex is a deal breaker, something has to give. If she won't take the lead can you? How will it go from talk to action?

I agree on the love languages as a good step. And this isn't to criticize what she's not doing. Enjoying sex would be a win for her too but she needs to see that it's possible. Not a chore. hard stuff man.

If I had ZERO experience as a WW I wouldn't be posting. I don't believe her story about the sex. She chose to have sex with him. Yes she got the emotional connection but I don't buy "the sex was disgusting" narrative. That's her story NOW but doubtful when she was in the affair, and going back and having sex more than once, that she found him disgusting. That's the script she made up in her head and the story she is going to stick with. Doubtful she would admit to amazing sex. If she was SO emotionally and mentally into him, I can't imagine the sex being horrible. That doesn't add up.

My AP used me and I found out after the fact he also solicited prostitutes. I had to go get STD tested and was positive for HPV. My husband also ignored me for a good year if not more. Does that mean I don't put an effort in? Deny sex? Live like roommates?? Hell no. It makes me more grateful I'm not married to a cheating, lying scumbag!

I know you need to rationalize in your head why she acts the way she does...she wants to talk the talk but she can't walk the walk.

[This message edited by pinkpggy at 5:50 PM, July 15th (Monday)]

Yeah I agree, the sec couldn’t have been that bad. I’ve just come to accept that their sex was somewhere between amazing porn God sex, and the terrible experience she described. Of course that’s what she thinks now, looking back. And yeah, she feels she HAS to say that. And maybe he did make weird noises, and maybe he didn’t last very long, and maybe he did have a weird smell. But I’m sure she wanted it in that moment. I accept that.

Hiking out, it’s definitely a situation of different love languages, combined with some FOO issues. To her and her friends, sex is a slightly crass thing that they sometimes have to do for their husbands. She doesn’t really ever turn me down for sex. Sometimes I’ll get “I’m a little busy tonight, but can we put it on for tomorrow night”, but she usually follows through. But it’s strictly done for me. She claims to enjoy the sex as it’s happening, and even has the occasional orgasm, but she could honestly take it or leave it.

When we started dating to when we had our first kid was a span of about 5 years. I used to not be able to keep up with her sex drive! She used to come home during her lunch break just to have sex with me, and then go back to work... even skipping lunch! I once bent her over in a dirty alley behind her apartment. She asked me to have anal sex with her DURING our wedding reception, just because she wanted us to have a dirty secret. I attribute all this to her going through somewhat of a rebellious stage. She was raised in a very conservative home. Sex was never discussed.

Only the bad girls had sex at all in our school. My HS girlfriend and I had a lot of sex... and she was considered one of the sluttiest girls in our school. My wife did not have sex in HS, but did have a sexual relationship with her college BF. I was after college, and only her 2nd partner. She rebelled against her parents for awhile. Drinking, smoking, partying, fucking... I was part of that. Now... she has pretty much turned into her mother. Even her sister made a comment to me about how prudish she’s become. I think her shame of the A has made her double down on that way of thinking.