SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

The Atlantic

February 14, 2019

(For anyone interested in looking it up.)

I stumbled across this article last night, and I'm not sure what to make of it. In my personal experience, it's true.

But Meana discovered that “institutionalization of the relationship, overfamiliarity, and desexualization of roles” in a long-term heterosexual partnership mess with female passion especially—a conclusion that’s consistent with other recent studies.

Has it always been this way with women or is this a modern phenomenon? I had never read of this "truth" before last night. Why is it more difficult for women to stay sexually motivated than men, in terms of their long-term partners? I don't want this to be true, but I have struggled in this area inside of several relationships. I assumed it was because I had not chosen the right types of partners or relationships. I blamed myself for the lack of long-term chemistry or for not working harder to connect. Is it possible that there is a biological component and that it's not me?

My dumb two cents is that it's a very simple explanation. Men and women both become numb to their partners in many ways over time, which includes sexually. People in general like novelty. And, more importantly, people stop paying attention to each other's needs when they're married 5 years, 10 years, 15 years, etc. This all leads to a loss of attraction on some level. Men, however, are just by and large hornier creatures. It's a stereotype for a reason and if there are women who don't believe that, they need to eavesdrop on some private conversations between men. Male libidos certainly have a psychological/emotional component, but it's still trumped by the physiological urge to release, regularly. Even if a man thinks his wife is gross, for whatever reason, he'll still have sex with her. Female libidos, it appears, are balanced in the opposite way. So when a woman loses attraction to her partner, I can see how she'd be far less inclined to have sex with him or her.

Two scenarios I've witnessed a handful of times. The Shitty Wife: she's emotionally distant, she constantly belittles her husband, she doesn't pull her weight at home, she brings nothing to the table intellectually, and she's conniving. Husband still wants to have sex with her despite all this. In fact, if she herself stops having sex with him, only then will all those other things start to fester in his mind.

The Shitty Husband: he gives her no attention, he never compliments her, his only hobby is playing video games all night, he does zero work around the house, and he doesn't help with the kids. Wife might have sex with him, but it's sporadic and unfulfilling because she doesn't respect him anymore. The lack of sex follows the realization of these negative traits.

As with all genderified conversations, YMMV.

Honestly, they lost me at the end of the article.

It’s not uncommon for women to let their straight partners play in a “monogamy gray zone,” to give guys access to tensional outlets that allow them to cheat without really cheating. “Happy ending” massages, oral sex at bachelor parties, lap dances, escorts at conferences … influenced by ubiquitous pop-cultural cues, many people believe that men need these opportunities for recreational “sorta sex” because “it’s how men are.” It’s how women are, too, it seems.

Women cannot be pigeonholed; the glory of human sexuality is its variation and flexibility. So when we speak of desire in the future, we should acknowledge that the fairer sex thirsts for the frisson of an encounter with someone or something new as much as, if not more, than men do—and that they could benefit from a gray-zone hall pass, too.

So much no.

Looks like the writer also wrote a book called Untrue: Why Nearly Everything We Believe About Women, Lust, and Infidelity Is Wrong and How the New Science Can Set Us Free arguing for the "Primacy of female infidelity"

A book called Sex at dawn almost a decade ago made similar "it's how we're wired" arguments about men and sold a bunch of copies but I think would find a lot of disagreement here.

The point of the article that I think this audience can appreciate if they're in a good relationship now is the need for variety in a sex life and to take initiative to make it exciting and not a chore.

I am not a woman so I can't comment on that part of your post but it seems to me that a healthy relationship includes honesty, especially during intimacy.

If you can't tell your partner what you want during love-making or sex then perhaps you should look inside and find out why you can't or won't talk to your partner.

Sex is supposed to be fun! for both partners!

This becomes null and void should there be some physical condition that prevents a partner from doing what the other wants.

This is interesting. I doubt any of us could come up with a definitive answer.

This is what I will say about my experience: You get what you put into it and it's a matter of priorities and importance to you. .

And, to me that means a lot of things.

1. Our bodies change over time and what works during one period of our lives will not work during others. So, it has to be priority enough that we are willing to continue to experiment to get what works today.

2. Women tend to be the nurturers, the givers, the worker bees, the over schedulers...we extend ourselves a lot. If we don't take time to energize ourselves emotionally and physically the sex will stop flowing or will feel like something additional that needs tending to.

3. A lot more goes into sex for a woman than a man. You have to be willing to communicate all those things so your needs are met. And, yes, I think a lot of them are about feeling valued, feeling like you are loved fully flaws and all, and then the physical ones too...

4. Not everyone marries someone who are interested in helping you with #3. And I think that mechanics even can be at play with this because they have preconceived notions of what should work, and can leave their lady sometimes feeling like there is something wrong when it doesn't. Even some of the most caring lovers do this without realizing it.

5. We put a lot of pressure on ourselves to be "goal-oriented". I don't think that's how a woman's sexuality works.

6. Many are too embarrassed to teach or ask.

7. Couples tend to know the "guaranteed combos" and can stay on that routine for an over extended part of time.

I could go on and on, but overall my thought is that it has nothing to do with a females ability to have a successful long term sex life, but with the amount of importance she places on it. I know a lot of women who really don't place that much emphasis on it, and a few who do. It's no mystery which ones are having better sex, and it has nothing to do with the longevity of their marriage.

"Primacy of female infidelity"

So then you mean they say this stuff to sell books? Quite possible.

I am trying to balance what I see in real life with the article which is a lot of women pretty meh about sex after they have been married a while. I cannot say that I see any women cheating because of it, though. That's an entirely different beast.

I can relate to the whole "I want to want my spouse" concept and I struggle. I do believe there is a psychological component and wish I understood if it was me because I have issues or me because I am like other women married for 20 years and it happens to us.

I can relate to this as I've had this happen to me in this M.

I will also say that I don't like being the way that I am. My WH, with all his flaws, is busting his ass. No question about it. And as men here and all over say, men feel loved and valued through sex and being wanted. I do not want to be fake in any aspect of my life, so I have been reading to understand how to bring more of my passion back. But it has not been something I have been able to bring and keep--more like bring for a bit then it fades again. I do not feel I am doing my part in R unless I can offer what my H needs, and it has been difficult.

I can relate to this as I've had this happen to me in this M.

Can I ask what you attribute this to, crazyblindsided?

1. Our bodies change over time and what works during one period of our lives will not work during others.

2. ...we extend ourselves a lot.

3. I think a lot of them are about feeling valued, feeling like you are loved fully flaws and all.

These are big ones for me. It's not that I ever got bored with sex, there were other factors.

My WH over the last several years showed very little interest in sex with me. Turns out he was getting off in other ways which I think is a big reason why. I blamed myself however and felt like a bad wife/woman. Blamed gaining weight, etc. What a mess.

[This message edited by landclark at 2:11 PM, August 1st (Thursday)]

Let's just suppose that there is biology to this, that familiarity for some reason dims a woman's passion. Just pretend it's true. Would that explain why women wrongly believe their M is the problem rather than their body/mind sexual disability, leading to exit As and other stupidity? If women did not know it was "normal," wouldn't that explain their belief that something is wrong with their M???

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 2:14 PM, August 1st (Thursday)]

My WH over the last several years showed very little interest in sex with me.

Which is bullcrap, landclark. It is common for one spouse to pull back, but it's not right or fair. And it sure doesn't feel good. It is my belief that maybe our body/mind connection can be as broken as anything else, and then we behave strangely because we don't know what we feel or why. Your H did not know what he was doing or why. It was definitely not you. ((((Landclark))))

I keep thinking of this woman I've known for many years who to my knowledge has a perfectly fine home life and a good relationship with her husband. Over the last few months, she opened up about them "having difficulties communicating" and mentioned how they're at that point, 10+ years into their relationship with 3 kids in tow, where they're not appreciating each other as much. This woman has always been very up front with her opinions and is one of the most moral and rational people I know...so it really surprised me when a month ago she starts telling me how she's talking to her girlfriend about how even when you're married, you never stop wanting to have sex with other people. I couldn't believe she was telling me this. To me, this is easily a giant red flag that she's got her eyes on someone in particular--because men and women alike don't just think "I want to have sex with others", there's clearly going to be someone that they have in mind.

I get that people can hold things in and you never know the full picture, but it just surprised me that someone who seemed to have her shit together, who seemed to be an excellent communicator and a bastion of not only logic but MORALITY, too, was telling me this shit.

My first thought was, "Does the husband even know she feels this way? Is she REALLY communicating this to him?" because my ex-wife said zippo about her Great Unhappiness, so of course I'm projecting here. She travels a lot for work, so I can only imagine what's that doing to her, not to mention the opportunity it presents.

My next thought was this sounds like someone who's maybe wrestling with the prospect of infidelity out loud, who might not want to cheat but who's feeling those feelings. I'm obviously giving her the benefit of the doubt since she's a friend, but who really knows.

I didn't read that article, but at the end of the day, I hope we can all agree the most important thing is this: COMMUNICATE YOUR FEELINGS TO YOUR PARTNER. To me, this is PUBLIC ENEMY #1 when it comes to people cheating. Your lackluster partner can't change if they don't know there's a problem--and that goes both ways.

And, more importantly, people stop paying attention to each other's needs when they're married 5 years, 10 years, 15 years, etc. This all leads to a loss of attraction on some level. Men, however, are just by and large hornier creatures.

All true, AbandonedGuy. Hard to separate those truths out and decide what's going on.

If you can't tell your partner what you want during love-making or sex then perhaps you should look inside and find out why you can't or won't talk to your partner.

Very true. I have to say that in my case, I try to articulate things (and have with other partners) but sometimes can't explain exactly what it is you are doing wrong. It's like it's just not doing it, and I can't exactly tell you why. What is that about?

My next thought was this sounds like someone who's maybe wrestling with the prospect of infidelity out loud, who might not want to cheat but who's feeling those feelings. I'm obviously giving her the benefit of the doubt since she's a friend, but who really knows.

Geeze, were you able to warn her at all? Wake her up to the huge life-altering mistake she would be making? It's hard to watch a friend struggle like this. But where is it coming from? Is she not trying hard enough in her M, or does a woman's body/mind connection betray her without her knowledge?

We make jokes here, but why would women clamor for marriage just to turn around and be 'meh' about it? That can't be on purpose. No wonder men joke about how her sexual attitude changes after marriage (according to the article).

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 2:30 PM, August 1st (Thursday)]

my thought is that it has nothing to do with a females ability to have a successful long term sex life, but with the amount of importance she places on it.

I don't know, hikingout. I do value it, but things are still not going well.

OIN, in my experience, people don't fully appreciate something unless they've lived it, and even then, that experience better be recent enough where they can remember those bad feelings, else their empathy tends to be lacking like the rest of them.

Personally, I have serious reservations about virtually all generalizations that differentiate between women and men.

I think a serious case can be made that, except for impregnation-gestation-childbirth, they are all socially constructed.

JMO, of course.