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This is an entirely different creature we’re dealing with versus a remorseful single episode cheater. We get the deeply ingrained fuckedupedness that leads a human to behavior akin to a monster

So, how did you break through their hard shell of lies/TT?

The bloated sense of entitlement and the attacks upon our character when questioned about the cheating)

I was married to an alcoholic in the 1980’s. I learned thru Alanon that he would never learn from me, how to change, and my part of the insanity was thinking I could somehow get thru to him. So, I grabbed a hold of the Alanon program which has years and years and millions of successful recoveries., It taught me a new way to relate to him, to facilitate change. I also learned addictions are a “thinking sickness” for which there is no cure, only continued progress in a lifetime program of recovery.

There’s SAanon, I think. I’ve heard great things about the healing, hope and success it brings to families and spouses of

Serial cheater, sex addicts, etc.

[This message edited by homewrecked2011 at 11:35 PM, August 2nd (Friday)]

We're divorced. I think that's probably the best way to deal with it.

Serial cheating changes the game of R.

how did you break through their hard shell of lies/TT?

I've come to realize I will never know the truth about the life I lived. She will never be brave enough to tell me and at this point I'm not even sure I'm brave enough to hear it.

[This message edited by destroyed1 at 12:39 AM, August 3rd (Saturday)]

By standing up to him, telling him no more, kicking him out, and reclaiming my life. Living my reclaimed, fabulous life on my terms in SPITE of what he subjected me to has been response to what's his name.

Seriously, breaking through his "hard shell of lies" was a pointless effort in futility. He can go to his grave with them.

God... they lie so much, even if they had finally came clean, would we ever really know fact from fiction?

We arent dealing with a full deck, here. NPD to the core. He continues to gaslight and manipulate the shit out of me with his avoidance. I really do feel like I'm talking to a rebellious teenage boy...we met at 16...I grew up and now I have a mentally challenged son, it seems.

These shitty professionals really do need to prepare the wives for the possibility of divorce. Providing statistical facts and information on where she can go to escape the abuse...

I feel so trapped.

[This message edited by DashboardMadonna at 1:28 AM, August 3rd (Saturday)]

I had to stop being the gentle giant that I was raised to be, literally.

The rugsweeping came to an end and I showed a very angry and potentially dangerous side of myself that she has never been exposed to.

Both she and the AP were deathly afraid I was going to hurt them, and for once I let her think that, and still do to this day.

She also knows that I hold a great deal of extremely detailed and embarrassing correspondence that I’m not afraid to use if she steps out again.

I am no longer afraid the use the D word in her presence if needed.

All that said, I have no reason to believe that she is still wayward, though I didn’t much before either, so there’s that.

Being with a serial cheater sucks, I can never let my guard down, but then she can never know if some random day she will come home to D papers either. I’ve already told her if I ever find out anything again, she won’t know that I know until she gets served papers...no discussion, no more chances.

By standing up to him, telling him no more, kicking him out, and reclaiming my life. Living my reclaimed, fabulous life on my terms in SPITE of what he subjected me to has been response to what's his name.

Seriously, breaking through his "hard shell of lies" was a pointless effort in futility. He can go to his grave with them.

^^^This.

We're divorced. I think that's probably the best way to deal with it.

^^^And this.

So, how did you break through their hard shell of lies/TT?

The bloated sense of entitlement and the attacks upon our character when questioned about the cheating)

Not your side of the street. You cannot do this, and part of your recovery is understanding why this is true.

I was married to an alcoholic in the 1980’s. I learned thru Alanon that he would never learn from me, how to change, and my part of the insanity was thinking I could somehow get thru to him.

This! Alanon saved me from my case of bad thinking. After all, my best thinking got me into the mess in the first place.

Yeah, that's an indicator of some deeper problems than your average one-time cheater. For me personally, that is a thing to save yourself from because it isn't your typical R recovery. It is discovery that you are with a disordered person and the problems with that go far deeper and are much less likely to be resolved. It's riskier in every sense for your own sanity and quality of life to try and work it out with a serial cheater.

I divorced her! I know what I know and that's it. When confronted with proof even then she spun it around. I have no desire to know anything else other then what I know, which by itself is grounds for D. My only regret is not leaving her sooner but I focus on today and go from there and plan for a better future. They really are a piece of work, delusional.

I was "lucky"?? On both Dday's mine confessed because both times he wanted a divorce.

The EA's in the middle and the porn use kind of trickled out and I kind of figured out the rest as I put the pieces of our marriage together. He didn't deny when I figured things out. He had a great IC that he saw multiple times per week at the beginning and then it tapered off until about 3 years past Dday #2.

I just brought this topic up in Reconciliation forum labeled " Serial Cheaters" This is something I am struggling currently. My H by definition is a serial cheater, the sense of entitlement during the A and false R was unbelievable. H also has "opportunity" to cheat as he travels weekly for work.

There are days I feel as if the ground is moving beneath me, I don't know if he is actively seeking out another A, reaching out to past AP, etc. His behavior currently doesn't suggest that he is but then I remind myself what he is capable of. I remember one time last year I confronted him about something and he became angry immediately and said "are you checking up on me again" ummm yes I sure am. Then he changed his tune quickly to apologetic. It's hard to forget and move past that type of treatment. I am following this post closely for good advice. Although DDay was long ago, the A went underground and we were in false R for a long time so I feel like I am "newly" in true R and trying to navigate these waters is the most difficult thing I have ever attempted.

My big lesson was....nothing stays the same...

XWH started out slowly.....I never suspected....then he gave me an STD....HE was 25...frat boy....I gave him a chance...we had only known each other a short time....I thought he had potential...

As the years passed, the cheating increased...the excuses to leave, to trips, the company dinners...most of which didn't exist...

When I caught him, he then punished me...flirted with women in front of me...rudely...cruelly...for calling him out for cheating...he was showing me what cheating could look like...and well, he didn't care...

HE even brought women in my home...planned a D...he was insane...literally....

They get worse...they get bold...they detach from you..more and more...and detach from the family....its very cowardly....they arent moral enough to be married, yet they don't leave...its a limbo....a hellish limbo....

OMG...the stories...the excuses...the lies...some are outrageous...I don't understand why they marry....much less go on to have kids...I don't get it....XWH hated me....he regretted children...Why did he want to get married?

Now he is single again....and not having much luck....AP dumped him....and he isn't moving forward with that fantasy life he invisioned….hes very bored and lonely....he will marry someone else, and repeat...He doesn't like to live alone, while he dates.

[This message edited by cancuncrushed at 5:21 PM, August 3rd (Saturday)]

My ex is/was a serial cheater. He will never change because he doesn't want to no matter how bad it gets for him. I can't help him and that was a painful lesson to learn while we were married. I kept hopefully reading into everything he did for a sign he could R.

He married his AP, they are separated but still together. I am pretty sure he is cheating on her, because dipshit forgot to wipe his phone when he gave it to DD.

D-I-V-O-R-C-E!

I know exactly what you mean when you compare these two types of cheaters. While it hurt just as bad and maybe even more when my current H cheated on me with a woman from his past, that is entirely different than being married to a serial cheater whom you know that you will never be able to trust, and while he may have regretted some things or wish he didn't get caught, I don't believe my XH was ever remorseful.

The difference is that my current H is, by nature a one woman man who was acting out of his nature, or the "one woman" was going to be someone other than me for that ugly time period of our lives. My XH believes that is "unnatural" and though I guess he thinks is possible not to cheat, he thinks that all men want to all the time, just because that is the way he was. For me the only real solution was divorce.

As some others have pointed out....is it really your job in a M to breakdown your spouses hard shell of lies/TT? The entitlement and attacks are real.

After doing what you are doing for a long time...I realized the fact that he was a serial cheater, entitled and attacked me was all I really needed to know In the first place.

To give you more info I threw him out, I was mean, I called him out on every detail, I threatened and did contact AP, I threatened to make a scene at his work, I demanded we go to MC, he had to take a lie detector test, we had a breathalyzer at home, I monitored every move he made. I was a private investigator, not so much a W. Then he lied to me again

My heart hurts for you. We can’t change them. We can’t brek down the lies and entitlement. We can’t make them not attacking us. We can draw a line in the sand on how we allow ourselves to be treated. I am really thinking maybe this should be your focus. You have lived in abuse and you need to focused on you getting healthy IMHO, not him

[This message edited by Jesusismyanchor at 3:26 PM, August 5th (Monday)]

I am right there with destroyed1. I have come to the conclusion that I will never know about all her men nor what they did together. I am one of those BS’s that wants to know all the details. I have the feeling there is something else she’s not telling me – either it’s another name not disclosed (perhaps one of the guys I worked with) or it’s something she’s done and doesn’t want me to ever know.

I am taking that “information” and setting it aside. I have set the benchmark within me (and I’ll never tell my SC WW) that when she starts revealing things I don’t know, I will begin to believe she is opening up and becoming vulnerable to me. Right now, she’s not even close. We will see with her in IC if there is any change. I am also looking for another change – for her to voluntarily kiss me on the lips.

Mine is a serial cheater. I believe I only know the tip of the iceberg of my M. I've had lots of signs over the years including anonymous messages from OW but no solid proof of A's until MOW. I feel like whoever I married isn't there anymore. Now I see a selfish and broken man.

I don't think I'll ever break through his lies. It's part of his disorder of having strong narcissistic tendencies to protect himself. Like another poster mentioned it is like dealing with a rebellious teenager.

I too broke through my own insanity of thinking I could get him to 'see the light' either through books and therapy, neither have worked.

He admits that it was the A with MOW, the aftermath and the continuation of the A that changed the M and changed me. He knows that this is as good as it is going to get and he knows he is to blame.

While none of this really helps me, I carry on as I always have after each traumatic event life brings it changes us in ways that are better and worse.

Mine's only a suspected serial cheater since I barely got info out of her for the one I actually caught, let alone the handful I suspected. I suspect at least 3 additional times she's done some form of cheating in the past. Certainly makes you think about cheating on your own. This is why I get Mad Hatters. May not have pulled the trigger, but I get the yearning for revenge after being devalued by a cheater, even if you don't have proof but are like 95% certain something's afoot. Would've probably cheated eventually had she not left, simply ouy of spite. Not the kind of healthy marriage I want.

[This message edited by AbandonedGuy at 4:34 PM, August 5th (Monday)]