SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Abuse is not about "injury". Its about power.

An abuser who punches is looking to have power in the situation...the collateral damage is the victims face. The weapon/vehicle to do that is their fist

^^^This. 100%

Why did I choose to destroy her when I was so intent on destroying myself?

Hmmmm...well, I know this answer on my wife's behalf but I'm not sure if it would be of help. I'll share in case it does.

My wife would always ask: "Why did I have to do this to her? She's the only one that every really loved me the way I always wanted. Why did I have to hurt her?" And, well...because...a part of her loved to have me...but, another part of her felt like she could never measure up to me. I wanted her to have her own thoughts, her own voice, her own opinions...I wanted her to be herself. But, she didn't know how to do that...she had never done it her entire life. So when I would ask these things of her she would give it her "best shot" and when she noticed I stopped asking and just accepted her as she was - she felt like she let me down.

She felt like she couldn't be the person I deserved (and in all honesty the person she deserved to be for herself) so she turned it around in her mind and started to tell herself that I gave up and didn't care anymore bc she felt "not good enough". And then she strayed. She gave into women that she felt were "less than" her so she could feel better about herself - while clinging to me and using me for the other parts of her she couldn’t fill, and to keep the charade of her "perfect family life".

Deep down she wanted to have happiness and a partnership with me...but that part of herself that she didn't understand was amplifying more and more and these people putting her on a pedestal eased her and gave her a sense of being someone. Because she always felt like a nobody. My wife weaves multiple people together to give her her sense of self. She learned to lie and be a character when she was a child. She knows very well how to put on that show and start performing for everyone. To gain their approval...their acceptance...their attention...because she wants to be seen, to be heard, to be wanted, to be liked, loved...yet she doesn't know how to do it as herself...only as the characters she's created to survive in a home where she never received these things. Essentially she will have to learn healthier coping strategies and remove these unhealthy copes she learned before. They do her no benefit.

The sooner she realizes that her lies hurt her the most, and her characters and cowering to others hurts her the most....the sooner she can start to heal and grow her esteem, sense of self, and empowerment.

I don't think I've grasped yet how this kind of truama can be forgiven, or how I can ever get to a place of forgiveness of my self for the pain I have inflicted. How do you even get to that point?

Forgiveness is challenging. This was something I posted a while back regarding some of my thoughts on forgiveness:

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I read something once regarding forgiveness in infidelity that I really liked and thought I’d share...

“You don’t have to forgive the affair. Can you forgive the person?”

I believe this is me. This resonates with me because of how I think of it...

“I could never forgive that!” Is something I find myself saying. Followed by “I could never understand those actions because I could never DO THEM!!! I’d think of you and refuse to hurt you this way!”

But I’m not forgiving the actions. I’m not forgiving the betrayal. I’m not forgiving the horrible affairs.

I’m forgiving my spouse for hurting me. I’m forgiving my wife as this flawed person, for causing me pain in her brokenness.

Can I do this?

I believe I can. I believe I can forgive her. Not the affair, but her as a person.

I see her pain. I see her brokenness.

I will never see myself forgiving her actions. But I can forgive her brokenness.

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I still feel this way for the most part. I'm not completely there in my process toward forgiveness, but I bought a book on it and plan to read it soon to help me in that process. As for forgiveness of yourself? I'm not too sure how to approach that particular question. I imagine you'd have to in a sense forgive yourself for being broken too...realize that what you did was coming from that place within you. That once that place is healed then you change into a better version of you - and that brokenness won't be the lead decision maker in your life anymore. You will be.

I know forgiveness of yourself will be crucial to your recovery and healing. Otherwise you’ll stay broken with yourself without it.

Sisoon,

The reason I don't feel abused is that my W's A was about her, not about me. I truly believe I was collateral and unintended damage. I truly believe my W thought her A would not affect me, at least at first.

When I think of emotional and physical abuse, my sense is that the abuser intends to manipulate the victim and that that intention is a necessary part of the abuse - which means, IMO, if there was no intention to manipulate, there was no abuse

I feel like infidelity actually is a form of emotional abuse, and is very much intended manipulation. I was unfairly controlled at my wife’s hands, with many many tactics used to keep me right where she wanted me. It was a daily, calculated choice on her end for at least 2.5 years. She knew it would hurt me...she just didn't care bc it felt too good for her. She told herself whatever it was she needed to justify treating me like less than a human being to allow for herself to keep her power, control, and ego boost. My being was rendered irrelevant unless it was to provide her what she wanted.

But of course, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

I agree with this:

Abuse is not about "injury". Its about power.

[This message edited by maise at 2:22 AM, September 7th (Saturday)]

The reason I don't feel abused is that my W's A was about her, not about me. I truly believe I was collateral and unintended damage. I truly believe my W thought her A would not affect me, at least at first.

When I think of emotional and physical abuse, my sense is that the abuser intends to manipulate the victim and that that intention is a necessary part of the abuse - which means, IMO, if there was no intention to manipulate, there was no abuse.

For me, the very fact that I was reduced to "collateral damage" is highly abusive. Highly. I am not irrelevant. I am not "collateral damage". I will not stand for being reduced to an afterthought or a nothing by my spouse. That he planned and orchestrated cheating behind my back means that there was absolutely intended manipulation. Had he really thought that it wouldn't affect me, he'd have been open about screwing prostitutes. He did something with intent, not for the purpose of hurting me, but not giving a shit about what it would do to me. I was merely an impediment that he had to get around.

THAT is why it is so abusive, IMO. I was dehumanized.

Gaslighting

STDs

Silent Treatment

Critical Treatment

Triangulation

oh I don't know seems like it fits the 'abuse' label to me.

Not to mention I felt disgusted to be in my own body after realizing she had sex with us the same day. I had no clue and would never do that to myself - but she made that choice for me. I wanted to crawl outside of my body. I felt trapped in it. I felt completely violated and disgusted with my own self. My wife violated me in ways I never thought imaginable.

I may as well have fucked that nasty bitch myself. Ewww. Ugh.

[This message edited by maise at 4:02 PM, September 6th (Friday)]

I wanted to crawl outside of my body. I felt trapped in it. I felt violated and disgusted with my own self.

Very similar to Sexual Abuse

Also what we put ourselves thru as a result of their actions

Why wasn't I enough?

What did I do to him/her?

Who can I trust?

Is what I am seeing is true?

I Don't matter

Don't make him\her mad or they will go be with the AP

Be quiet

Don't rock the boat

I am unlovable

We examine who we are thru the lens of their abuse. Their emotional neglect/abuse shape how we interact with our selves.

Ill used....I feel ill used when i am roped into extra work with no pay. Or taking another kid home after school. Or when my kids forget to say thank you after I make their favorite dish.

Ill used...IMO....is a temporary situation that doesn't cause me to question who I am as a person.

Abuse is pervasive and causes changes in your emotional, mental, spiritual and physical coping techniques.

[This message edited by prissy4lyfe at 4:16 PM, September 6th (Friday)]

It IS sexual abuse. Raise your hand if you would have been having sex with your spouse if you had known they were having sex with someone(s) else?

Nobody?

Didn't think so.

It was non-consensual sex, or it at least feels that way afterwards. I know that feeling of wanting to crawl out of your own body. All I could hear in my head was that old slogan about when you're sleeping with someone, you're sleeping with everyone they've been with. So I have been exposed to crack whores. TRUST AND BELIEVE that I would never voluntarily have slept with a man who had slept with one crack whore, much less however many he was actually with. I felt raped.

I think it's interesting that only one BH has chimed in on how he's perceived what being cheated on felt like to him, and the only one's who are challenging his thoughts about it are BWs. I know my BH never once said it felt like abuse or expressed anything to allude to this in any way. I only feel this way because of my own actions and how I feel about it. I agree it is abusive. Emotionally and sometimes physically when a PA is involved.

I wonder if other BHs would care to express their thoughts?

I lurk way more than post, but I saw that request for BH viewpoints.

I respect sisoon a lot. Almost 3 years ago today, he posted something in response to my second DDay that helped me to have hope enough to try R. And we're doing pretty good all things considered.

That said, I do not agree with his take on this at all.

I feel grievously abused. The folks challenging his view and the comments about emotional abuse and gaslighting, etc. It's abuse.

How can anyone consider exposure to STDs not abuse?

Gaslighting - abuse

Trickle Truth - abuse

Encouraging a pick me dance - abuse.

Alienation of affection - abuse

My experience is in alignment with the BWs in this thread.

[This message edited by jaynelovesvera at 6:29 PM, September 6th (Friday)]

My wife chose to carry on an affair and lie to me about it for most of my adult life, stealing any real choice I had in building a life with a person who would have met my standards as a life partner. 13 years ago she made a choice that altered the path of my life, and then she lied to my face about it over and over again, in order to save the version of her own life that she preferred to live. How in the world is that not abusive?

I don't care how many times she or anyone else tells me "it wasn't about you" - that's the fucking problem, isn't it? That's exactly why it IS abuse. When you love someone, and you're tempted by someone else, it SHOULD BE about the person you love. When you instead choose to pretend they don't exist, you are actively abusing them in order to serve your selfish interests.

There is no doubt in my mind that my wife was abusive to me, and continued to abuse me every time she lied to me about the extent of what she did. I face the question of whether to accept the abuse as the actions of a woman who was broken, who was selfish, who was frankly an awful person, but who is trying very hard to show me and convince me that she is no longer those things.

I do believe she has changed, but the fact that she has changed does not change the fact that she was abusive when she had her affair. Nothing will ever change that fact.

Sisoon's comment is bothering me quite a lot. Just think of the actual reality of what a WS chooses to do - think of the reality of them sleeping with someone else, penis in vagina, the sheer audacity and selfishness and hedonism of allowing that to happen with someone else while they supposedly love you. Then imagine them coming home to you, laying next to you in bed, sleeping beside you, maybe even having sex with you too. And doing it over and over again, and lying to you all along.

You need to have some serious cognitive dissonance to believe a WS can do that and that it isn't abuse. That simply because their primary goal wasn't to hurt you, that it's not abuse.

Our MC compared my emotional injuries as the equivalent of being a pedestrian hit by a bus. The emotional trauma from infidelity takes years to recover from. It's NOT a victim-less crime.

I think the abuses have been covered rather well already.

From the simple act of being denied the reality of my marriage, to the giant pile of lies, along with the manipulation, the sexual abuse, gaslighting, and finally we have to be completely ignored and/or dehumanized for someone to carry on in an extra relationship while still married.

I told my wife the next time she wants to hurt me, I prefer high speed projectiles, such as bullets, rather than having to deal with the invisible daggers that accompany infidelity.

That said, the abuse is during the A, as are the lies after discovery.

Am I R'ing with my former abuser? Yes.

As long as it stays 'former' I'm good with it.

Ultimately, I do believe we're all capable of horrible things and some of us learn from those experiences, some don't. I think my wife learned from her horrible choices. But those active choices during the A, like unprotected sex with someone other than me, are abusive behaviors.

I would also disagree with Sisoon.

The actions of my xW certainly had nothing to do with me. She treated me like an object. A guy in a suit at a wedding. A walking wallet. I agree that anyone could have filled that role for her. If it hadn't been me, it would have been somebody else.

What she did to me would not be abuse only if she was incapable of recognizing me as a human being because of some comprehension deficit. That she simply couldn't relate that I was a fellow human being. That she was some sort of robot or android that couldn't know this. I do not believe this. She chose what she chose to do because she's a self-centered narcissist, not because she's incapable of comprehending me as a human being. Her goals are more important, even if she has to hurt others.

The people serial killers kill have nothing to do with the treatment they get either, except they meet some superficial set of characteristics. I suppose they are not getting abused either.

Not to mention I felt disgusted to be in my own body after realizing she had sex with us the same day. I had no clue and would never do that to myself - but she made that choice for me. I wanted to crawl outside of my body. I felt trapped in it. I felt completely violated and disgusted with my own self. My wife violated me in ways I never thought imaginable.

This. SO much this. I am 10 months out today and I still feel this way sometimes.

It is absolutely abuse - how could it not be? I am reading through all of these posts with tears running down my face because they put into words exactly what I feel. My stbxWH won't ever read anything about wtf he did to me and the hole he ripped through me and has made it painfully evident time and again that he doesn't fucking care, but I see it and feel it in my mind and in my body pretty much constantly. I hope and pray that someday it gets better. And I will work for that with my therapy and all.

But the truth is I was FORCED into having to do this based on someone else's choices. Tossed into it against my will and with no say or choice in the matter. I was forced into having to be on massive doses of antidepressants, anti-anxiety meds, sleeping meds just to hit a bare minimum of ability to function. I was forced into having to tell my family that I am getting divorced because this person that I brought around that all of them loved did this horrendous thing. I feel tainted, and heart sick, and soul sick. I am stressed to the max at the financial upset and logistical bullshit that I now have to deal with because none of the life that I have killed myself building for him and me mattered enough to him to give two shits about what he was doing and the damage he was causing. He is going to be here in two days and I feel nauseous at the thought of having to share air with him. If all of that doesn't describe abuse, then I don't know what does.

This thread has made me cry. I was desperately triggered by the articulate way, you all wrote of your trauma. And as usual

was impressed with Zugs understanding of his BSs pain.

I completely understand what Sisoon is saying.

That said I feel abused. I feel emotionally, mentally, physically and sexually abused by my WH affair. I won’t labour any of those points, they’ve been articulated above.

I understand that my WH is an addict, his affair was about depression, addiction, voids, self hatred, selfishness, entitlement, blah blah blah. Our family was collateral damage to his self destruction. I get that.

But he saw my pain, he knew I was hurting, confused, desperate and chose to carry on, repeatedly. He made a conscious decision to continue to exert power over three innocent lives. That is abuse. He took my personal agency away from me. He took my chance to make informed decisions about my body away from me. I have been forever changed. Yes it’s abuse.

[This message edited by Dragonfly123 at 1:02 AM, September 7th (Saturday)]

Psychological abuse, often called emotional abuse, is a form of abuse, characterized by a person subjecting or exposing another person to behavior that may result in psychological trauma, including anxiety, chronic depression, or post-traumatic stress disorder.

BH here, sure sounds like abuse to me. Not only the A itself but the aftermath especially. The gaslighting was the worst. Not only was I trying to figure out why my whole world got flipped upside down from the one person that I would take a bullet for, I found out that she was the one holding the gun. Then she tells me it's my fault and I made her buy it! Saw that analogy on here a ways back and it stuck with me.

Not only myself but my 2 kids have suffered from their mothers A and the aftermath. Both are in IC. Both have depression. She tried to gaslight them and rewrite history to cover her ass. They saw through it though. It was intentional war on the brain/mind. To purposely conflict pain and confusion onto another is abuse.

I have been abused most of my life starting with when I was a very small child through adulthood. My BH is one of the ONLY men in my life that has never abused me. I have always hated abusers because they are sick broken people who hurt others. Because I had been on the receiving end of so much abuse I always vowed I would NEVER abuse any person as I knew how badly it hurts. And then the abused becomes the abuser. With my A I abused my husband and my family. My daughter will never look at me the same again I bet. My husband who had lived a normal life without dysfunction and abuse for the most part now had to deal with being hurt and abused by someone he trusted so much. Me. It’s hard not to despise yourself for being such an abusive piece of shit. I’m just like all the people who hurt me. I am an abusive asshole. But I refuse to stay that way.

I am floored with gratitude and respect for the discussions that are happening in this thread. I sincerely hope this thread continues and evolves. Thank you, all of you, for articulating the deepest hurts you have ever experienced and being vulnerable and strong enough to share them.

I am amazed with the people on this site time and time again. Just...thank you. I cannot begin to express how by you sharing your realities you are helping not just myself process and accept things that feel unimaginable, but so many others reading, both BS and WS.

To all the WS reading this thread who haven't already, I implore you to post.

How does this make you feel? Are you able to digest the reality of what you, what we, have done and what that actually means? Are you sitting there thinking that this isn't you? You aren't a bad person who willingly abused your spouse, these people are being dramatic and obviously had underlying issues before they were cheated on. "My BS isn't like them, and I am not like their WS. I am better than that, and so is my spouse."

There is no judgment there. That was me, and still can be sometimes. Which is why I hope you will share how this is hitting you. I want to unpack all of this as much as you hopefully do. Nothing can be healed until we can accept the soul crushing reality of the devastation we have caused with our abuse.

Duplicate post. Oops.

[This message edited by FearfulAvoidance at 4:05 PM, September 7th (Saturday)]