SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

It seems like the RA folks are held in lower regard than the original cheaters here at SI.

I disagree. You may read more in the BS forums than you do over in WS. But this site is about getting out of infidelity. So, any WS who is still conducting or justifying infidelity is pretty much read the riot act, as they should be. As far as a BS who is considering cheating or has cheated, if they are still justifying infidelity, then many understand the urge but still admonish it as it's not a healthy thing for the BS to do.

As it ended badly for you, most cheating ends badly, so yes the majority on this site will advise against.

Butforthegrace I am still married to her. Been married 26 years. All of this happened about 10 years ago. We got some “unmet needs” marriage counseling that shifted the blame to me and working too much, not paying enough attention, poor communication, etc. She cheated for roughly 6mo and I cheated for roughly 6 years. I know...

The marriage hasn’t been what it should have been all of these years. A lot of that is my fault.

Silverhopes and others on the moral high ground issue. I want to say I get where you’re coming from, especially the integrity/honor thing kingrat mentioned. I had made plans with the other woman to leave my family to be with her. The plan changed somewhat and would have meant moving thousands of miles, and quite a few states, away from my children. I just couldn’t do that and she wasn’t willing to have a long distance relationship or wait any longer. We had been in a relationship for roughly 5 years.

I guess I feel divorce is the only sure fire way out of this with your dignity and self respect intact. I felt like a complete fool staying faithful to a cheating woman. I felt shame, humiliation, embarrassment, uncertainty, anger, betrayed, and taken advantage of when my wife cheated. I did not cope well with these issues. I should have left. I have a hard time understanding the martyr-esque approach of staying and dealing with someone that has betrayed you. I’m not the greatest writer, math is my thing. I hope I’m making sense.

Like reconciliation itself, trying to insist that it (an RA) is always the right action or always the wrong action is simply misguided IMHO.

I want to say I get where you’re coming from, especially the integrity/honor thing kingrat mentioned.

I'm only advocating for taking the high ground for those people hurt by infidelity and are considering adding an affair of their own into the mix.

As long as we have conscious of some kind, I think affairs hurt the people who start them, regardless if it is for selfish reasons or revenge.

If the RA has already happened, I don't judge our mad-hatters here at all. Judgement is way above my pay grade. I'm just around to help folks heal. People join up here to get out of infidelity, one way or the other.

I have a hard time understanding the martyr-esque approach of staying and dealing with someone that has betrayed you.

There's nothing "martyr-esque" about REAL reconciliation. When you do it right, you end up with a new appreciation for YOURSELF. You end up self-fruitful in the matter of life satisfaction, independent of others for your sense of worth. You no longer need other people to validate you. You can simply enjoy your partnership for what it is. It's dessert rather than sustenance, something which adds flavor to your life, not the thing which makes you live.

I think, as a society, we're rather codependent in our views of love and marriage. Real R breaks that toxic mold, leaving you with faith in your own ability to thrive in the face of adversity. Real R assumes that the WS has recovered, shares your values, and reciprocates your energy as a worthy mate.

If it's not genuine, bona fide R... it's on you if you've settled for less. Part of getting to real R is owning your choice to stay. There are no bars on the windows or chains on the doors. Once you've got all the information to hand, it's on you to live (and hopefully with integrity) with the choice you've made.

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There are no bars on the windows or chains on the doors.

It can sure feel that way once you’ve added kids to the mix, though.

I’m owning my choice to have them with him; no one put a gun to my head and forced me to get pregnant twice. But it doesn’t lessen the feeling of being trapped.

Calling yourself in an open marriage because your partner cheats is a disservice to open marriages. A marriage is only open with everyone's consent.

It can sure feel that way once you’ve added kids to the mix, though.

True. Sometimes the choices are really difficult, and we don't get the choice most of us would most like... the choice to go back in time and erase the betrayal. I still say that we have to honor our own choice because that's what allows us to let go of victimization. Someone else can make a victim of us, sure. We can't control that. But we do get a say as to whether or not we'll remain a victim.

I exercise my freedom when I embrace my choice. I didn't choose to be betrayed. But I'm in full control of where I stand today. If things change, I'm free to make another choice. It wouldn't necessarily be an easy thing to do. Things might be really tough for awhile. But I'm captain of my own ship, and if I've learned nothing else from infidelity, I've learned never to allow ANYONE to usurp my authority over my own life.

I think, as a society, we're rather codependent in our views of love and marriage. Real R breaks that toxic mold, leaving you with faith in your own ability to thrive in the face of adversity. Real R assumes that the WS has recovered, shares your values, and reciprocates your energy as a worthy mate.

If it's not genuine, bona fide R... it's on you if you've settled for less. Part of getting to real R is owning your choice to stay. There are no bars on the windows or chains on the doors. Once you've got all the information to hand, it's on you to live (and hopefully with integrity) with the choice you've made.

Chamomile Tea I'm somewhat new, so I maybe don't see things quite like you. Isn't R settling anyway you look at it? This is truly something I struggle with. No matter what level of remorse, getting it, or owning it, you're recovering with someone that has betrayed you, disrespected you, hurt you, taken away your agency, exposed you to STDs or a psychotic spurned lover, and lied to you. In the aftermath the faithful person gets trickle truth, gaslighted, and is typically blamed for the cheating. I questioned our entire history, I had trust issues, I had\have attraction issues towards her now, I was disgusted by her. I'm supposed to suspend my life and try to recover from the boatload of problems my mate just handed me while I wait for her to come out of the fog or whatever the term is? What about my self respect or dignity?

I'm not singling you out Chamo, I am just struggling with these issues myself.

KingRat

Understand something please. I have integrity. Bucket loads of it. If anything I have always been too honest, even to a fault.

No, I don't have solid ground to stand on right now which exasperated my feelings.

Am I looking to drop my panties for some random guy to get back at my WH? No. I have more self respect than that and apparently a self control that much of society does not. Just look at the endless influx of newly betrayed spouses here every week. It's astounding.

In a world that has seemingly gone completely off the rails, where a moral compass is something many do not possess it is making me feel more and more out of place. I'm not holier than thou by any means. I'm no saint and certainly no martyr for staying in this marriage. I'm simply dealing with what I have, knowing my situation and trying not to crack under the pressure.

But those who have revenge affairs get no judgement from me. Their WS put that option on the table by cheating. Do two wrongs make a right? No. But if a BS truly feels that need then who are we to judge? Maybe they just want to feel wanted by someone again. Some want to hurt their WS the way they were hurt though somehow it's not the same.

It's their call. Their choice. Just like their WS chose to betray them and pulled the rug out from under them. People tend to lash out when they have been traumatized and I don't blame them one bit.

Isn't R settling anyway you look at it?

It's a long process, typically two to five years, but it's only "settling" if it fails to suit your life. I'm coming up on five years out, so I've had a lot of time to process, read, and research. Believe me though, I got wrecked, bug meet windshield wrecked. I was so codependent without ever realizing it. All my FOO and previous abandonment issues were broken open and exposed. My formerly mild anxiety went full-blown and I was like a raw nerve, sick to my stomach for months at a time. I'd have divorced my fWH on the spot if I thought it would make the physical symptoms go away. Depression settled in, and it's been a long slog back. So, I know that the things I'm saying seem simplistic. But I promise you that everything I've learned, everything I've experienced point in one direction... toward me.

Only by getting right with myself could I break through the pain. Only by honoring my own authority over my choices could I release the victimization. There's this really cool exercise in The Journey from Abandonment to Healing by Susan Anderson... I think she calls it "Big/Little" but I can't remember. The gist is that you imagine yourself at a very young age, like 4, and you have a series of dissociative conversations with yourself. It sounds bizarre, I know. But when you allow the insecurities of your inner child to have voice, suddenly you see that your inner "Little" needs someone she can count on. And that someone is yourself. YOU are the "Big", the one in charge.

Once you've accepted that you are "Big", that you can handle whatever comes your way, and that you will protect your "Little" the way you deserve to be protected, you can let go of a lot of things.

In terms of R, I do believe that people can learn, grow, and change. It's hard work and the WS needs to really WANT to correct the flaws in their character. I also believe that if we say we're game to try, we need to be as good as our word. No WS deserves a second chance. But if we choose to give it, we dishonor ourselves when we make half-ass efforts. The WS can't heal us. It's unfair, but it is what it is. We have to heal ourselves.

Strength and healing to you.

Understand something please. I have integrity. Bucket loads of it. If anything I have always been too honest, even to a fault.

I never questioned that. The comment I made was in response to your questioning the value of keeping your integrity. My comment was that integrity is something that, IMO, is something that is held for you and not predicated upon an outcome.

Kingrat talks about integrity in marriage but wont specify what he means by that. Are you talking integrity in putting loyalty to a betrayer ? Why would anyone BS agree to that? Where is the integrity in that? As i said the marriage is broken there are no rules for commitment except the ones of self desire. It it will remain so until both parties agree on reconciliation / remarriage. It hilarious that WS Consider bs sleeping with others after DDay as cheating or RA when they BROKE/ nullified the marriage.

Malibu, what is wrong with sleeping with a random person that you are attracted to if it makes you happy and helps you recover from your WS? Or generally speaking, sleeping with random people ??

Integrity is my moral standard that is not conditioned upon outside influences or actions.

Like if someone said, I was a good person and look where it got me? Well, I don't view being a good person as something done to achieve an external reward or to "get" something. I attempt to do no evil and be my best self because that is what makes me feel wholesome and that is what gives me purpose.

in putting loyalty to a betrayer ? Why would anyone BS agree to that? Where is the integrity in that? As i said the marriage is broken there are no rules for commitment except the ones of self desire.

Not sure what you are talking about? I divorced and it was an incredibly painful process. It sucked ass. I did not want to do it but I had to because it was a deal-breaker for me. I believe in R, and I believe in D. I'm not going to tell someone what is right for them. What I don't believe in, speaking for myself, is to be miserable by choosing neither and watching time go by. I understand people have their reasons for doing whatever they are doing, and I'm not judging them. I'm only speaking about my experience and what I had to do for my own well-being.

[This message edited by KingRat at 8:01 PM, November 5th (Tuesday)]

Integrity is my moral standard that is not conditioned upon outside influences or actions.

Like if someone said, I was a good person and look where it got me? Well, I don't view being a good person as something done to achieve an external reward or to "get" something. I attempt to do no evil and be my best self because that is what makes me feel wholesome and that is what gives me purpose.

When my WH moved in with his AP, I can't tell you how many people were shocked and/or advising me to find someone for rebound sex ASAP. Sorry, no. I was mourning the loss of my marriage, dealing with my depression, raising two little kids and working on getting healthy again.

Plus, just because he broke his marriage vows didn't mean I was going to. When I got married, there was no * at the end of my vows and tiny print saying *unless you cheat on me, then I'm free and clear to go buck wild and fuck anyone I please.

It was very important to me to waiting until all the paperwork was signed and notarized, and then I could feel like I upheld my end of the bargain and could go get laid with a free conscience.

Also to those claiming “why not just get a divorce first before sleepling?” Or “why compromise your values?” Firstly, in the eyes of god or in your heart/ soul you are divorced when a WS cheats, because Infidelity is heinous crime in a marriage otherwise this site wouldnt exist. Just because the government still considers BS/WS married doesn't mean you both are in your heart / soul (which i consider to be more important). Also, it is easier to stay if you decide to reconcile.

Secondly, the BS doesn’t compromise their values when they sleep with others after DDay and before reconciliation (if chosen). Because guess what, they didn’t break their vows. The marriage is a covenant instead of a contract as some put it. If you didnt know, A Covenant in marriage is something you promise to fulfill to your spouse. Well a covenant is still a two way street because thats what makes a marriage . If a WS breaks their covenant then by logic there is no marriage and BS are no longer bound by that covenant because marriage doesn’t exist. Additionally, bs didn’t compromise their values because they held their covenant as long as the marriage lasted.

Or “why compromise your values?”

I think we have a different definition of values.

If cheating is wrong, it's wrong. Period.

I value my ethics, my vow, my integrity to trade it in.

There is no excuse to cheat.

Just because someone lowered themselves to cheat doesn't mean I have to.

Throwing my humble two cents into the "cheating breaks the covenant of marriage" hat. We all define these boundaries differently, and I see the moral and intellectual contract becoming nullified once one side breaks the mutually agreed upon fidelity. After that, the rules are changed, the game faces are on, and it's just one long negotiation to decide should I stay or should I go now. Rs require building a whole new foundation of trust. Ds require building whole new separate lives. But that thing you called a marriage is essentially over in all but the eyes of the law.

I don’t see the point of an RA. I don’t believe it’s possible for the cheater to feel the depth of pain the BS feels. If it were they wouldn’t have been able to cheat. I actually believe it makes them feel vindicated in some ways. Like oh you are no better than me. No thanks.