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I am hoping to hear from some R vetrans, and people in R about how they have or what they are doing to process the negative things that your spouse said about you to the AP. I understand that WS needs to justify and keep the AP feeling good, and a way some waywards did that (my wife included) was to talk negative about their spouse.

Also I'm curious about what were hard things specifically that your spouse told the AP that you had to get past.

For me, I still don't know all the things that my wife told the AP about me. That is something I'm having her include in her TL. But I did read a text that said she thinks I'm the worst and most annoying comforter (when her grandma died). And that she really appreciates the support from her AP.

Ugh. I don't even really get it, but I do know also that she told the AP that I'm controlling, manipulative, and verbally abusive. It's funny cause the AP was all of those.

I can't seem to process this out. And it hurts that my wife actually believed these things at the time. It also hurts because it is a huge pile up of lies, and deception that I am left to process.

[This message edited by RedHeadTemper at 2:17 PM, November 20th (Wednesday)]

I have no idea about what my WW or the OM said

about me. I assume from nothing to negative.

though whatever they said was said to make each

other fell good and justify their PA. So in that

context they were lying to themselves and each

other.

Which makes what they said no worth the effort

to spew such hate. however if your WW said true

things about you well that is just another level

of trust broken and disrespectful behavior.

For that your WW owes you just compensation.

I know that my fch talked bad about me. He told me. I don't know what he said, specifically. That is something I don't want to know. I don't think I could get past it.

I look at it as the as when I complain to my girlfriends about my fch. It's venting that I need to get off my chest.

Another way to look at it is, what other people think of you is not your business. Of course, it's hard to apply that to your spouse. I don't think that would work, but I guess it's possible. 🤷‍♀️

I am also struggling with this. His AP contacted me several times telling me I shouldn't forgive him and told me some of the horrible things he said about me. She said she wouldn't tell me everything because it was just too hurtful. What's the hardest for me is that most of what he told her is stuff that plays into my insecurities. WH claims she would jump to conclusions about me and he would just let her believe that image of me. The hardest thing for me, is that when their relationship was ending, he told her that he was losing the best thing that ever happened to him and that I would never hold a candle to her. I am working hard in IC to figure out how to deal with that revelation and we are also working in MC to understand why he would tell her that.

Me - BS (44)

Him - WS (44)

Married 24 years

DD #1 - March 17th, 2018

DD #2 - June 5th, 2019

Working on R

There are a multitude of betrayals in any A. It's not just "The A" that hurts, it is a collection of devastating choices and actions that all do incalculable damage as they build up over the course of the A. Many of those decisions and actions fall into categories that are different than the normal "I cheated" bucket.

Negative talk about the BS is a betrayal that falls into a bucket of deeper, personal violation. Any jerk WS can just "not think" about BS while they are being selfish and cheating, but negative talk feels more like a direct, personal attack. The "I didn't think about you" argument doesn't apply because BS is literally the topic at hand.

In R, it's important the WS understands that this causes a different type of damage to your trust, the WS/BS's emotional connection with each other, and it requires extra attention on the WS's part to try and restore that.

It's definitely true that WS need to justify to themselves why they can continue the A, and it can be helpful to frame it in that light, but the damage is still done. How do you trust they don't "really" feel the negative things they said? WS needs to build you back up, but it can't be her responsibility entirely. You need to build your own confidence back up by exercising, doing well at work, or taking care of the kids, whatever--it's important to get your validation internally separately from her.

To answer your question directly, WS said I wasn't "fun" enough, and said AP1 was "bigger and could do things that I couldn't" in bed. I'm still not quite over that last one, and it's been 10 years since AP1.

It's not quite the same, but WW actually sent an explicit video of me and her to her last AP. Our honeymoon video, no less. Again, the "I wasn't thinking about you" argument doesn't apply, and it's a horrible personal violation... my counselor says it's more akin to rape than an A. Negative talk is perhaps not quite that bad, but the direct and personal violation still puts it in a different category than the typical A pain.

[This message edited by TwiceWounded at 10:27 AM, November 20th (Wednesday)]

My WH told the first AP that I had trust issues that would likely end our marriage, because a marriage without trust wasn’t a marriage.

Here is a taste of the negative talk about me that I know of (keep in mind, the AP met me once, almost 10 years ago, for about 2 minutes at a social event before any of this):

- I am "hideous" looking and my WH could "do so much better" (WH confirmed I'm "not much to look at anymore" - sigh)

- I am a "loser" (no comment from WH - not sure how I qualify as a loser but it was said)

- I am bad with money (from WH) and was "using him for a place to stay" (I am bad with money - but I have always contributed to our household)

- I am "irritating" and "annoying" and "self-involved"

- I am boring

- I am a nag

- I am "dead weight" and basically worthless (said by her and confirmed by him)

* He also confided in her the one thing I asked him not to tell "anyone" about - about struggles I was having with my job, which allowed her to berate me further.

I could go on and on, but that is the basic flavor of the comments about me - about my looks, my personality, and who I am in general. This stuff wasn't said a lot - but over 2+ years they had plenty of time to talk about it if they wanted to. The thing is, the OBS was a friend of my WH, so little "negative" was said about him as my WH wasn't interested in berating him, so I took the brunt of the berating.

What did we do about it:

Not much. For one, my WH coudln't really say anything to contradict those things he said. He apologized and said he didn't mean it and wished he had never said those things/wished he had stuck up for me, etc. The thing is, it doesn't matter that he apologized or not - he said and/or agreed with all that shit. It hurt like hell (still does actually) and either I was going to be able to move past it or not. Period. He was right in that nothing he could have said would have made me feel any better about any of that stuff. Nothing.

She told him I was lazy, that I trapped her into the marriage, all the problems and arguments were my fault.

My personal favorite, she wanted to have more kids and I, with my selfish action, got a vasectomy and took that option for her off the table. Truth is she wanted me to get it done because 3 kids were enough. She also told me at the time that was why she wasn't having sex with me, she didn't want any more kids and that if I had a vasectomy she would be all over me (more lies).

That is the extent of what I know, they talked as much on the phone as they did in FB messenger so I will never really know the extent of what they were talking about.

I didn't have any letters or emails or texts, so my wife had to tell me all the horrible things they said. And she went with complete honesty, because, wow, the shit people say during an A is off the charts horrible!

But at some point, all the stuff that happened in the fantasy bubble was bullshit. Faux feelings, broken promises, and things they said to make them feel better about their poor choices.

Sure, it was real enough at the time, but I'm looking more for how my wife looks at herself and that era and what she has done to change since then.

Two people enjoying the worst versions of each other doesn't really produce any talk about me.....that matters.

Honestly, two people actively in an affair don't have a lot of room to mock ANYone.

My FWS and his AP didn't talk much about me except to say that I was more dominant than him, in and out of the bedroom. In fact, his AP told me that he would always sing my praises for supporting him through his mental issues at that time.

One of my mantra's during that time was "If they were talking about me, they were on a DAMN good subject" and "if they are still trying to bring me down to their level, they must be jealous of something in regards to me"

Basically, sell yourself to yourself. Put it on your mirror so it is the first thing you see in the AM. Email yourself reaffirmations the night before so you see it when you open your email.

Because *THEY* have to tear you down to make themselves feel better about themselves. *THEY* have to bolster their own ego's because *THEY* are not sure of their own self worth.

Repeat after me, "I am the best they ever have, and the best they ever will have"

Cause it is true!

My STBX did plenty of negative talk behind my back (confirmed by friends and MOW). It was all part of his devaluing me so he could feel ok with what he did.

RHT, I’m sort of in the same boat as you, I’ve seen some texts describing me as unfair, angry, and controlling, but my people-pleasing, validation-seeking, two-faced WW claims she only patiently listened as her best friend and confidant dumped all over her spouse and compared him to her AP. She would *never* do that. I don’t believe it for a second, but it doesn’t bug me much anymore, just another clear indication that she’s not a safe partner.

Part of it is I’ve lost a ton of respect her and her judgment. If she idolizes dirtbags and tramples over people to run from her own problems, it doesn’t really bug me that she finds my boundaries and values inconvenient.

The other part is I’ve done a lot of work replacing the validation and self-worth that I was getting from her, because it was fake and not healthy in the first place.

Because *THEY* have to tear you down to make themselves feel better about themselves. *THEY* have to bolster their own ego's because *THEY* are not sure of their own self worth

.

This. If they were feeling good about themselves, they would NEVER feel the need to tear someone else down.

OW said some really shitty things about me. WH didn't defend me. And that's on him. And her.

Me? I get to live my life knowing I didn't have to say rotten things about another person just to feel good about myself.

Not in R, just for context. Maybe some day. WW had multiple APs so I have quite a few of these "brain teasers."

My personal favorite was finding out that I was referred to as the "dog walker/dog sitter." Not just by WW and APs, but some of her COWs and friends.

It stung. It's so personal. I put effort into making sure our dogs are fed well, walked, groomed, healthy, and happy. I ALWAYS made sure to be available to take care of them when she would do double shifts and graveyards. Not to mention that they kept me company when my ww was "absent." And I got made fun of for it. Behind my back.

She will never understand how hurtful that was. I swear its like making fun of someone for loving their children. Ruthless.

The only thing that's helped me with that has been time. I was sad, then angry, and now feel pity towards her for thinking that way. I will never feel bad about loving my dogs and if she or people around her really think that's something to be made fun of, F them. I assume some form of acceptance will come with more time, but there was no amount of apologizing that was going to fix that.

There was general complaining about me being controlling, or rigid, or whatever. I've accepted that while there are elements of truth, the narrative is really a justification for the As.

I'm working on being a better person and potential partner, but there will be no R as long as she holds to the narrative that I'm some bad guy. Nope.

And I can say for sure that shit is just a way for potential APs to say "oh you don't deserve that" or "I'd treat you better" or whatever. It's a set up. My WW knew the guys she'd pursued were lame and so she helped them with hints by offering up shit like this. Personally, I'd have more interesting things to talk about. If they have nothing better to say, F them.

Another gem, and this is really the opposite, but a brain bender nonetheless: She told one of her APs that I (me, not him) had fucked her brains out for 2 days. This guy couldn't even get hard without the pill. WTF? I feel for anyone who had to hear the AP was good in bed, I really do, but this really messed with me. It's taken me months to see this as ultimate proof that she was (is?) just living on a different planet. Truth. If I was doing that, and he was doing his thing, and she still went to him... This had NOTHING to do with me.

Another that hurts me in my bones is the AP she never remembered to mention anything about me. He didn't know she was in a relationship, I'm 99% sure. No matter how many times she pulls the "I wasn't thinking about you" card, this is brutal. It's so cold and calculated and callous. And I consider this a version of negative talk, although indirect. If you're shooting for R, I don't see any way around this other than accepting its who they are and what they are capable of and allowing time for them to show it can't happen again. I firmly believe that's either a leave or they are responsible for helping you heal it wound. Not sure you can process that without out help if staying.

There's more. But anyways...

Processing for me, in the context of possible R, is confusing. I can't say what I need, but I can say for sure what I can't/won't do without:

Full admission(I know you mentioned her including negative talk in the TL). If I bring one of these up and get an I don't remember, or I don't know why, or a flat denial... No deal. I left a cheater before without truths, and while I don't want to say it was easy, the processing without truth and without them in my life ended up just being "this was a bad person." If I'm going to stay/R I can't do that.

Processing for me also means dealing with the triggers/movies the negative thoughts bring up. This is complicated and worthy of a separate thread.

Processing for me also means justice. Balancing the scales. And balancing the scales doesn't mean I go down to the level she did, it means she has to come up to the level I'm at. Again, that's in the context of R. Walking away, which I'm not suggesting, removes some or most of that. Staying requires much more work.

I feel your pain. Some days I'm floored that she ever had anything bad to say about me. After everything I've done for her and everything we've been through. Fuck it hurts.

Cheers

How do you trust they don't "really" feel the negative things they said?

I would go with the assumption that they did feel that way at the time. Whether it was true or not is another thing, entirely. When I have said nasty things about my fch to my friends, and on here, I truly felt that way.

Putting the BP in a negative light is one way to justify an A. It also could be what they truly thought and felt at the time. That doesn't mean they always and forever think and feel that way. Feelings are fleeting and thoughts/opinions can change.

What matters for me now is what my fch thinks and feels now.

Edited because I didn't really answer the question.

You know by objectively observing their actions over time.

[This message edited by cocoplus5nuts at 7:53 AM, November 21st (Thursday)]

This was the first thing I asked my husband about and he said he didn’t talk about me at all to OW except to say we we were separated and then later he hoped we would work things out (once she figured it out). When I met her she told me that all she knew about me was that I was an excellent mother and how I was always there for him. Then when she found out that he had lied to her about our status and we were in fact living together, no separation, he told her he was in love with me. That’s when she told him off and walked out.

My husband isn’t that type. When something lands in his lap he feels entitled with no need to justify it. It’s been a problem for 27 years but he’s much better at it since the kids are older and call him on it.

I would say actions always speak the loudest and what you see is always truer than what you hear.

There was one detail I couldn’t get past and I managed that with EDMR.

[This message edited by Marie2792 at 9:16 AM, November 21st (Thursday)]

My fWH said that they never talked about me or OBS.

But he did say that he said "I don't get this at home" after she gave him a blow job in her car.

And he also said that she told him that she "looked me up on LinkedIn" and made a comment about how she was surprised to see that I was his wife...

WTF? This for me, was her way of planting that seed that she was better than me.

Still, he maintains that they didn't talk of their spouses. Most likely bc if they did, the bubble might have popped too soon.

Well first off, his AP started the conversation about how shitty her marriage was and what piece of shit her H was. Once she established "a doorway", my H told her that he wasn't happy either. I think he cried a lot too which just makes it even more fucking stupid,,,,

The thing is, he and I were in a bad place in our marriage and had indeed grown apart, so he didn't even have to lie to get her to spread her legs.

But I know that once the A was in full swing and he was able to separate his two lives, he didn't talk about me anymore. As far as he was concerned it was none of her fucking business. She would ask him questions and he would tell her he didn't want to talk about things "at home". It used to piss her off and they would fight about it. She wasn't good at compartmentalizing and he was the master at it and then she would cry.

The main thing I had to get past was feeling like a fool. Here he was in a year-long A with this person and I felt stupid. That's what I had to get through.

his AP started the conversation about how shitty her marriage was and what piece of shit her H was. Once she established "a doorway", my H told her that he wasn't happy either.

That's what happened with my fch. They started out as friends supporting each other in shitty marriages. She was even trying to help him make his M better. Yeah, that worked well for him.