SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

This is typical narcissistic abuse. You are feeling scared and lost, and he knows it. Please seek outpatient care if you can't do residential care now. You mentioned your daughter? Is this npd husband a second marriage? If so, I bet his previous relationships were all the same. I assume he blames everyone else for problems in life? You must, must, must get help to get far away from this toxic disaster of a human. He will suck every ounce of joy from your life and then blame you for being joyless. He may even discard you anyway and run off with new supply. Please dump him first.

Why did you want to marry someone with a lifetime of addictions, someone who lost his daughter but blames his ex for being a prude? These were and are serious red flags.

I am not surprised at all that this is happening to you. I can relate to your situation because the SO who became my stalker could be your WH's identical twin psychologically. They do whatever they want with no regard for what you want, and then when you stand up to them they make you feel like somehow you have to earn their love back. And if you work hard enough at it, your love and devotion might just change him into something he is not. News flash. He never loved you in the first place. There is nothing to earn back.

Partners like him treat you fleetingly well and with charm to get what they want in a practical sense. They want the trappings of married life without the commitment. They want the income from their partner, the stable place to land, the niceties that come with having someone live with you that cooks for you, cleans for you and takes care of business. So they can play, and come home with the street lights come on.

They target people who want the whole package badly enough to put up with anything to get it. That was me. Right after my ExH left me for his mistress, my SO targeted me. He knew I was lonely and without self worth. My ExH left me for someone so completely awful, (everyone who knew her or worked with her thought so) that the blow to my self esteem was crushing. And he knew just how to use it. I'd get bread crumbs of what I thought was affection. They were actually late night booty calls after he was done taking out other women, but in my hunger for affection, that's what I wanted to see because I was so starved for it. And I'd make him a gourmet breakfast the next morning every time. I shudder in disgust. At myself.

Use this lost grant as your launching pad of escape from this nightmare cycle. Something similar in my situation gave me the courage to finally walk away for good.

There was a project proposed for my community that would have been a nightmare. It would have brought crushing traffic with very little benefit in terms of growth to the community. No one in the community wanted it with the exception of an economic development consultant the city hired on a part time basis. My SO had a friend who had information that the consultant had a personal relationship with the developer of this project, giving her a conflict of interest. He assured me that I should ask about this conflict at a public hearing on the issue. It would kill the project. And I'd be believed because of what I did for a living.

The information turned out not to be true, and I almost got sued for brining it up in a hearing. The consultant took out ads about me in the local papers, posted notices on my house, called my employer and more. And it turned out SO knew it wasn't true. His friend was actually someone he was partnering with to develop a similar compeeting project, and they needed the consultant and her project out of the way. They used me to do it, without regard for any consequences to me. I was very well thought of professionally and I almost got fired.

It was the thing I needed to take the blinders off. It's funny. I would let this guy treat me like a total door mat emotionally and sexually and I'd keep coming back for more. When he messed with my livelihood I suddenly got it. I was never more than a means to an end to him. And I was done.

You need to be done. Go back and read your own posts. You are able to lay out in black and white that this guy is someone who is using you. He is telling you he intends to keep on using you. And yet every time you take his calls, allow him to come over, or listen to any bullshit excuse he manufactures to explain why this is all the way it should be, you send the message that it's ok with you, and that you are willing to put up with more. You may not be saying those words, buy you sure as hell are sending him that message. You are flattered by the crumbs he tosses your way, because you are so starved for it. You are so busy chasing the crumbs you are walking right past the buffet of genuine, loving and kind people out there that could be yours if you just took your eyes off of him. He has trained you to be that way. It works for him. He needs this control over you.

You don't have to stay in the cage he's built for you emotionally. You are clearly an intelligent, articulate and thoughtful woman. You have to get far away enough from the person trying to train you to no longer hear his commands because you've been conditioned to react to them against your better judgement. When you are tempted to react to his calls and messages, post here instead. We get it.

I think he’s definitely Narcissistic. I feel like I am reading my own life. It is so scary how strikingly similar these Narcs are. I have 24 years with mine so completely trauma bonded I’m pretty sure you are too. It’s literally like breaking an addiction to a toxic person. That’s why No Contact is so essential. The cognitive dissonance you are experiencing is normal for the situation you are in. Give yourself the gift of time in healing and let go a little more each day. Then each day accept a little more of what you know and just sit and feel through each.

I have found the more I allow myself to cry, feel the fear of abandonment and the unknown and love myself and know that I will be ok. You be ok. This is one of the hardest kind of relationships to get out of. It will take all the strength you have and persistence. I’m right there with you bewildered and scared. We can do this! Let’s do this!

I assume he blames everyone else for problems in life?

You assume correctly. I got involved because I believed his bs. He's very successful in his field - award winning. He has a hard luck story that checks out in terms of his childhood and really and truly appeared to be a guy who had conquered his demons. I knew his story about his daughter likely had some holes in it but he was young and it was a very short-term relationship so I guess I just let it go.

They do whatever they want with no regard for what you want, and then when you stand up to them they make you feel like somehow you have to earn their love back. And if you work hard enough at it, your love and devotion might just change him into something he is not.

That's exactly what's happening. I wasn't even desperate for a relationship. I was two years out of an 8 year relationship and the guy was stalking me but I was somehow living my life, dating, spending time with friends, working and traveling. I was starting to get scared though around when I met my STBX - I knew stalking for two years was concerning and I was contemplating moving for awhile just to try to get him off of it. That was heartbreaking bc I love my home, my friends, etc.

I had committed myself to not having a marriage or serious relationship again. I felt I'd already wasted so many years and I wanted this part of my life to be about me, but he matched my politics, my interests, and some professional history. Our families even hail from the same obscure place. He was incredibly handsome and fun and he really listened and asked great questions. It was like something I wasn't even looking for and didn't know I needed fell into my lap. I'd never felt so seen and understood and appreciated. And, he made me feel safe in terms of my other ex stalking me.

Charity, that was a horrible thing your ex did. Cheating is somehow normalized - not ok but a thing some assholes do - but messing with your partner's career is not in the range of normal shitty partner behavior - who does that?

My STBX was actively begging to get back with me when he pulled this shit - so he's crying to my face whilst sticking a knife in my back.

I felt so crazy earlier - your responses have brought me back to reality - thank you so much.

I'm out of town, flying back tonight. My 20 year old disabled son called me an hour ago and said my STBX showed up and ranted about not having anybody and how my son and I had each other. He then accused my son of ignoring his texts. My son was scared - I got a friend to go over and stay with him until I get back.

He took a key out of a bowl when I idiotically let him in the house before I left town.

I know he's going to show up at the airport tonight when I land - small town easy to figure out. I'm not sure what to do. I'm kind of scared but if I don't go with him I think it might be worse. Idk. I don't have anyone to call. He's got a key so if I call an uber and he races to my house - my son and a friend are there. I think I need to go with him and play nice and deal with this in the morning.

Skeeter, girl, go to your house as planned, and if he shows up, call the fucking cops and report him for harassment. It is super fucked up that he swiped a key, and then that he showed up to talk to your kid??

Can your son and your friend go to the friend's house? Hell, can you stay at the friend's house until you get the locks changed?

Also, install a security system immediately. I'm pretty sure Best Buy or other stores like that have any of the normal name brand ones.

There are two big ones that are always in commercials, and you can order them on Amazon prime so quick! You can have the alarm set to go off even if you are home, as long as a window or door is open that shouldn't be, it goes off like crazy! You don't even have to pay the extra monthly fee for the live monitoring/calling the police. Trust me, the alarm makes an insane noise if it is tripped, enough to scare anyone away.

I know it probably doesn't seem like he would ever do anything violent, but trust me, never in a million years would I have thought my ex would go there, and then he shoved me on DDay. Don't take any chances!

Call the police. Tell them that he's living elsewhere, took a key, and that you feel threatened by his behavior. Use that phrase, "I don't feel safe, I feel threatened for my disabled son and I. He's been ranting at my (our?) son while I've been away."

This guy is a narc and you've interrupted his supply. Narcs are charming, but the charm is an act and acts are tiring to keep up. You've found that out.

Now that you've, basically, dumped him you've hurt his little ego and he's going to make you pay. You're not knuckling under and he's trying twice as hard to break you.

Do not go with him. Cops, women's shelter, whatever. Document everything by filing police reports.

Good luck.

Go to your home as planned and if he shows up call the police. Tell them and you feel threatened by his behavior. He has to knock off this shit now. If you give in to his bullying tactics now they will just get worse. Good luck.

Are you home? Are you ok, Skeetermooch? Just worried.

Leaving a narcissist can be very dangerous, even though critically necessary. The fact that people are afraid should be taken seriously. Hope you are ok.

The fact that he went and ranted at your son is classic narc behavior. Mine did all the same things. He's going to start calling your friends to get them to reason with you, and he's going to have people he knows start calling you. He is desperate to get you back under his control.

Keep repeating to yourself "This is not love". It is all about control. It's hard, but do your best to take the emotion out of it and look at his desperate attempts to get to you for what it is. If you were watching this in a movie you'd think his character was pathetic. Because he is.

He knows he needs to get back in your physical presence because that's the only way his charm can work on you. Years after I left my SO I woke up to find him standing in my room twice. He was sure that if he could just get me back in bed with him I'd succumb. As mentioned by Crazyblindsided, trauma bonding is a very real thing with Narcs. It is extremely hard to break free, so don't beat yourself up how you are feeling. Just keep reminding yourself that he's betting on you feeling that way. Prove him wrong. Every time you resist him it gets easier the next time.

Here is a cheap suggestion for peace of mind. Go to the hardware store and buy a couple of hook and eye latches and secure them to the inside of your doors. That way the key he has won't get let him get in while you're asleep.

Please let us know you are ok.

Thank you everyone. I made it home. He texted me while I was at the airport with a suicidal threat, to which I responded by calling. He was tearful - I'm sure fake but at least not in rage mode.

He was there at the airport. I let him take me home, played nice and we got to my house without issue.

When we arrived my son was outside waiting. He told my ex to give me the key, which he did. My God, my poor son being put in this role being privy to this insanity - I hate that more than anything. He's 20 years old, he's disabled, he's got the cognition of maybe an 11 or 12 year old - I feel like a pos mother for bringing this into his world. The pathetic thing is, if not for my son, I would probably tolerate more of this but I won't because of my boy.

This morning the narc sent some text about having no contact with me for awhile because he had to figure things out and reassuring me he wouldn't harm himself. He also said I could come by his apartment anytime and he had made me a spare key in case I'm ever worried about him?!

I'm changing the locks today in case he made a copy of the key.

Because of the last guy I dated who stalked, I installed a 6' brick wall around the property and a locked gate, video cameras in the driveway, at the front and back doors. I had an alarm system but it kept getting tripped by cats and such and the police department here charges $200 for every false alarm so I disabled it. I will revisit that.

I took Xanax on the plane last night and passed out when I got home.

I saw him more clearly than I ever had yesterday but even so I woke up this morning feeling slightly less clear - they are insidious. It's the channel switching - rage, to suicide, to calm reasoning, to love bombing, to silent treatment - I'm able to keep clarity under some of those conditions but not all - he can always find a way to hook me back.

Since this morning he requested space I will take advantage of that.

I have had personal experience with the suicide threats. Here's what you must realize and what you must do. Well, if you want to do the correct thing, that is.

Realize:

1) It is either true, or it is a manipulation tactic. (In your case, I'm betting on the latter. And I'm not a betting man.)

2) If it is true, you are not trained to deal with it. Even if you were you'd have to excuse yourself and call in a colleague, like medical Doctors do. Since you're not trained to handle suicidal folk you could easily do more harm than good.

3) The only correct action in either case (see 1, above) is to call a professional. Call the cops and tell them he's threatening suicide. Take a recording of the phone call if you can, or a screenshot of texts for the officers to base their actions upon.

4) Step back and let the pros handle it.

5) You don't need a suicidal STBX in your life. Your son likely cannot comprehend this, doesn't like it, and is probably worried and anxious.

6) Here comes the 2x4 of Whatever am I doing? Seriously, skeetermooch, WTF are you thinking, keeping this dude around?

7) Call the cops. Start a record of this over-the-top behavior. It'll help in any future legal shenanigans, divorce, assault, Temporary Protective Orders or Protective Orders or Vacate Now orders.

He handed the key over right away. Um, did he have a copy made? Change the locks, or have them all re-keyed, and keep your outside gate shut.

Read the list of correct actions again, paying especial attention to Nos. 6. and 7.

Thank God you are ok. Even more Thank God your son is ok.

Listen to every word Devotedman said. Especially #6. What the hell were you thinking by letting him take you home? What if he was suicidal? You could have been collateral damage with him behind the wheel. I have personally known a person who committed suicide by crashing their car intentially. Unfortunately he killed his wife and driver of the truck he slammed into as well.

And remember something. Right now you have friends you can call, like the one who showed up for your son when he was frightened by this asshole. How many times are they going to be there for you if you keep letting him back in? At some point you are sending a message that you aren't really afraid, or don't really want to give up the relationship. Those of us who have been under the influence of someone like him get why you do to an extent. Others will not be so understanding.

Note to self. No one I have ever heard of goes to an airport to commit suicide. Unless they are a terrorist and they want to blow it up. I have been suicidal once. The last thing I wanted to do was get in a car and go to an airport. I don't care who was landing there.

I missed saying a couple things, so here we go.

First, I do understand exactly how you feel. My xW was a headcase and a half. She drug me down to crazy with her until I did what I do when the going gets tough. I looked at myself, said "Holy shit, dm, wtf are you doing?" and I ran. So I get it.

Second, if it feels like your SI peeps are suddenly attacking you, we're not. Really. We are the folks in the audience who are yelling at the movie screen: "Don't go downstairs! You do not need downstairs! You need out of the house! NOW!" We've been there, done that, got the T-Shirt, and threw it away. Many, many of us have been where you are right now. Our collective experience is being triggered like nobody's business and we want to save you the bullshit of what we went through. We are 100% behind you!

Third, why calling authorities is the correct response to suicide threats. I've already mentioned that you're not trained. You are also not trained to differentiate between a threat and a manipulation. Regardless, he's trying to put _his_ survival at _your_ doorstep of responsibility. That is false. Do not fall for it. _IF_ he's really suicidal he needs professional help. _IF_ it is manipulation (it is, he loves himself too much to off himself) then a professional visit by the Police in their full capacity, possibly followed by a few days in a psychiatry joint for evaluation and follow-up, will go a long way towards convincing him not to pull that particular stunt again.

Fourth, my experiences with suicide threats:

I left a thread in, um, General? a while back about a friend of mine who called and threatened suicide. Woman I've known from work and for 30 yrs or so, she was asking me to call the police and talking weird. I hung up, called the cops, stood back and let them do their job. They did, she spent a week or two in a facility, and came out better.

My current GF's long-time bff called GF, BFF said that her son, who at 30-ish had just gotten out of jail _again_, was threatening himself and leaving (barely visible) scratches on his arm with a knife. Then BFF got off the phone and started texting same. I had The Talk (no, not _that_ talk, the Suicide Threat Response Talk), with GF. She called the police down in BFF's town, talked to them, gave addresses, and when the police got to BFF's house BFF, BFF son, BFF husband, the whole group lied to the police. So the officer called GF, she texted him screenshots and then forwarded him the individual texts, and !le poof!, on-probation BFF son went straight off to jail that night. BFF (unhappy, true) called GF and tried to ream her out for the call to the police. GF had the Suicide Threat Response Talk with BFF, who got off the phone without her need for drama satisfied.

So, once again I encourage you to Get Out. If not for your sake then for your son's. At 20 even neuro-typical folk think that they're pretty much invulnerable. Since he's not up to that level he really cannot comprehend exactly what's going on, -but- he sees Mom in trouble and he probably figures that he can handle it. He cannot.

Write down, one per line on a piece of real paper, the crappy things that STBX has done. Read it 50 times. Then, each time you talk with STBX or have a good, or even wavering, thought of STBX read a few random things from the list. Ending good thoughts about xWGF that way was what really helped me over the hurdle of thinking, "Oh, poor xWGF. She's had a hard life..."

edited to add: fixin'. There was a typo, now there are fewer.

[This message edited by devotedman at 12:59 PM, December 29th, 2019 (Sunday)]

^^^^^^^^ incredible post!!!

At some point you are sending a message that you aren't really afraid, or don't really want to give up the relationship.

That message isn't inaccurate at times. I've never felt so unstable in all of my days (and don't generally don't feel unstable at all). But the way that my emotions and position on him can shift from day to day, even hour to hour makes me feel utterly unmoored.

I go from utter conviction that I want this to end to believing there's a way back to what I thought we had. I go from feeling strong and certain to feeling like I'll disappear without him. And, the thought of never seeing him again pretty much breaks me. This is truly an addiction.

I've been chasing that initial high of the love-bombing days. As soon as he knows he's got me back emotionally the devaluing begins - it's immediate. That's why I've gone back and forth for the last 5 months - whenever I've entertained reconcilation he lays out the rules - basically I'm to be on a shelf until he wants to take me down. I object and pull away again, wash rinse repeat.

I've been using the 180, or my weak version of it, to get him to address the cheating and when I see the smallest indication he is or might be, I'm back in and he's back out.

I feel as fucked up as he is. I'm manipulating his fear of abandonment to get him to stop cheating and lying and do the real work of restoring trust and he's just trying to get back in and resume business as usual. It's a sick cycle.

He just wants the trappings of our life. He doesn't want me. He doesn't love me. I'm just a part of the trappings, a possession to control. But I still must love him like a fucking idiot.

I know you all aren't attacking me - but I feel so embarrassed that I'm not getting this or acting more decisively. I really loved the fake version of him - I really wanted this relationship to work. I can't believe this is happening. I'm so fucking heartbroken.

I'm 56 years old. I thought I would grow old with him. I had given up on that prospect and he was like a gift. And it's just hard as fuck to have it snatched away. My days are so lonely and quiet and I'm not a person who gets lonely typically - but I guess I loved talking to him. I loved him coming home from work everyday. I loved cuddling up at night.

I gotta make that list, DM. Because the good does not outweigh the bad and I need to remind myself of that.

His suicide threats are "Leave me alone to die" and "I can't go on anymore" kind of things. He's never so pointed as to say, I'm swallowing pills or something. But he so rarely despairs that I take his words very seriously - he's usually so strong and angry or he's out partying it up so, it scares me maybe more than it should.

I have to get through this. I'm going to do it.

GURRLL... What you feeling is NORMAL.

why is it called a rollercoaster?

Early on I wrote something like how I can go from "I hate you" to "I need you" to "fuck off and die" to "lets have sex" to "how could you do this and be such an asshat" to "maybe we can R" to "WTF am I doing".... all in about a second. I think it's normal and common and part of our brains' way of processing what's happened and is still happening.

I loved the fake version of my WH. I LOVED that damn masked man. When we first dated we dreamed of growing old together, in our front porch rocking chairs, with a glass of wine and hand holding... this stuff was discussed before I was even 30! Before dday, I loved my life and my WH and my family and my M. Was it perfect? Absolutely NOT (and as the blinders are lifted, I realize how rose colored my glasses tended to be).

Losing those dreams is hard as f*ck... and for me, no matter what happens wrt my WH and I, those dreams are all vanished. They were good, solid dreams (albeit with a less than solid man/M) and each and every one of them DESERVES to be properly grieved. Because they were mine, and MY dreams deserve to be grieved.

I feel so embarrassed that I'm not getting this or acting more decisively. I really loved the fake version of him - I really wanted this relationship to work. I can't believe this is happening. I'm so fucking heartbroken.

This is just one more f*cked up part of the sh*tshow. That embarrassment. It reminds me of a scene from "Broadcast News" where Holly Hunter is having a panic attack and can't breathe and says something like "over a guy" ). I feel like that a lot. I'm a strong badass, and some fucking f*ckwart has got me humiliated and embarrassed? WTF?

I somehow blame MYSELF for loving him. Blame myself for wanting what wasn't ever real. Blame myself for being so foolish as to dream of a future. Blame myself for still being in limbo. Blame myself for being so completely blindsided. Blame myself for having PTSD. Blame myself for [fill in the blank]. Sound familiar?

What I'm learning - and it pisses me off plenty - is that I - as the BS - actually have to figure out how to forgive MYSELF for all the shit that my WS did & caused. But I'm learning that I need that compassion for me. That I am somehow ashamed of WANTING all of those things that I thought I had. It seems so counterintuitive, but that's where I am. Maybe you could use some self compassion too?

As to the suicide stuff, my WH did it. He hung himself at the 8month mark. No warning. One minute he was (I thought) blowing off steam by walking in the back yard. The next he was gone. And then I heard a strange sound from our garage, so I went in. I found him unconscious, called 911, they arrived, told me he was dead, the whole 9 yards. But they resuscitated him. He recovered. Doesn't remember any of it. Gave me ANOTHER diagnosis of PTSD (cuz you can't have just one?) . And everything that devoted man says is spot on.

You didn't cause it. You can't control it. You can't cure it.

You aren't qualified to deal with his suicidal ideation. You DO need to recognize it and do what you can to protect yourself and your son.

You and your son are in my thoughts and prayers. Sending you all the good vibes I can.

(((Skeetermooch)))

[This message edited by gmc94 at 3:05 PM, December 29th, 2019 (Sunday)]

Here are two truths:

1) You can't reason someone out of a position that they've arrived at emotionally.

2) I'm going to try anyway, in my long-held, believed in, and really quite wrong belief that I _can_ reason someone out of a position that they've emotioned themselves into.

I've never felt so unstable in all of my days (and don't generally don't feel unstable at all).

Up above I related that xW dragged me to Crazy Town. What you wrote is the result of _living_ in Crazy Town.

Here's what happens: They promise what you want and look all cool-as-shit providing something close. Then they get tired of that and they start swaying back and forth (like your STBX has). Because you're accustomed to trusting them and believing them and you've built up your Personal Narrative (more on that later) on _them_ you are unsettled. You look to them (the unsettling force) for Making Things Better and Like They Used To Be. The inherent falsehood there is that they were _never_ that settled, they were always _un_settled, and what you wove into your Personal Narrative was a _lie_.

I say this in all kindness, having been there. Right now you are mentally unhealthy and mentally unstable. Not the Let's Go Burn The Retirement Home! kind of mentally unstable, but the I Don't Know Where To Find Solid Ground type of mentally unstable. This is affecting your decision making process, you've said that yourself. You've gotten here in tiny, baby steps of From Fine To Unhealthy.

Aside No. 1 - Personal Narrative. This is simply the story of your life that you tell yourself. It is your memory of how you got to where you are from when you were a wee lass at your Mother's and Dad's knee. He became part of your life story and you _believed_ things about him that were a lie. You based your life around him, around a lie, and now that the lie has come to light you're unsettled, confused, and having to deal with all of that _while_ he's still alternately lying to you and showing you who he truly is. _This_ is who he truly is. A lying, manipulative man. A cruel man.

I go from utter conviction that I want this to end to believing there's a way back to what I thought we had.

That right there is the wavering that they do to keep you unsettled. Keep the deck rocking, keep you off of firm footing, and you're _re_acting instead of acting. This is where you have the chance to step off of the rocking boat onto the steady dock, take the reins of your life back into your hands, and let him sail off into the sunset.

I've been chasing that initial high of the love-bombing days. As soon as he knows he's got me back emotionally the devaluing begins - it's immediate. That's why I've gone back and forth for the last 5 months - whenever I've entertained reconcilation he lays out the rules - basically I'm to be on a shelf until he wants to take me down. I object and pull away again, wash rinse repeat.

Read the above paragraph again. Now picture your first date with him. Now picture on that date or the next, if he'd acted then like he's acting now, what would you have done? Really ask yourself that question. What is your answer?

Or, change you and him to your best divorced friend and her new husband. She tells you what you've been telling us. What would you advise her to do?

I feel as fucked up as he is. I'm manipulating his fear of abandonment to get him to stop cheating and lying and do the real work of restoring trust and he's just trying to get back in and resume business as usual. It's a sick cycle.

Gently said, friend skeetermooch, right now you _are_ as fucked up as he is. He's dragged you off to Crazy Town and now you're living there.

Realize that _you_ cannot control his actions. He controls his actions and you control yours. As a result of his attempted control of you you resent him and want to leave. How does he feel about you trying to control _his_ actions? The same? Different? Why?

In my last reply I said that I woke up and asked myself, "wtf are you doing, dm?" Ask yourself that question.

but I feel so embarrassed that I'm not getting this or acting more decisively. I really loved the fake version of him - I really wanted this relationship to work. I can't believe this is happening. I'm so fucking heartbroken.

Nothing to be embarrassed about. Remember how I said that we're all out here yelling "oh, god, not the basement! Do Not Go In The Basement!!"? That's because we went to the basement ourselves.

You loved the fake version of him. Think about that. The fake is not him and cannot ever be. That just isn't who he is, it is who he acts like he is to manipulate other people into liking him. Would that him that you love treat you like the real him does? No? What does that tell you?

I'm 56 years old. I thought I would grow old with him.

Well, you're a newer model than I am. I'm a 1962 model, myself. I might end up alone to the end and I might not and you know what? I'm okay with that either way it goes. (Though I'm going to live forever or die trying! )

You said:

His suicide threats are "Leave me alone to die" and "I can't go on anymore" kind of things.

Above I said:

Regardless, he's trying to put _his_ survival at _your_ doorstep of responsibility. That is false. Do not fall for it.

What I said is still true.

However, having been to Crazy Town myself, I say to you: You can't have it both ways. Here it sounds as if you're arguing that he's _not_ saying suicidal things and above you definitely said that he _was_. This is like "a little bit pregnant", either you are or you aren't. Either he is making suicidal threats or he isn't. This vague innuendo that he's doing _is_ a threat about suicide because he wants it to be.

And, as I said above, _you_ are not qualified to differentiate between an empty threat or a call for help regarding suicide. Knock that into your head. Say 10 times, "I am not trained for suicide threat help."

Call the cops, report how he's been acting lately, and then report his "vague" threats of suicide. Then step back and let them do their job.

Seriously, do that previous paragraph.

Good luck, sister in adversity. Have a fist-bump }{

[This message edited by devotedman at 3:07 PM, December 29th, 2019 (Sunday)]

I've been using the 180, or my weak version of it, to get him to address the cheating and when I see the smallest indication he is or might be, I'm back in and he's back out.

Skeeter, the 180 is not something you do to get him to behave the way you want him to. It is something you do for you to preserve your sanity. It helps you see things clearly, without the influence of the person causing you all this pain.

When I was where you are now, there was no SI in my life. When I started to realize he really didn't give a rats ass about me, I started to pull away. I was just tired. At the time there was a song by Bonnie Rait I believe, called "I Can't Make You Love Me If You Don't". It was like it was about my life and one day I started pulling away. As soon as he would sense it, he'd put on the charm, which by that time was taking me to a dive tavern for BBQ Ribs. That's how low my expectation of charm had become. And I'd be back. And within days I was right back to the same confused dispare. I was doing the 180 without the name and I really didn't have any expectation of changing him. But he would suddenly pursue me anyway to my surprise. Every time I fell for it it reinforced his sick behavior.

I honestly think all those times he conned me into giving it another chance is what emboldened him to think nothing of ruining my professional reputation for his financial gain. He honestly didn't think it would matter. Nothing else had. Why would this? I'd surely be back. In hindsight it gave me the gift of having the gumption to leave.

I too made a list that helped me keep my resolve. The final time he tried to suck me in I had actually written a very detailed list of what it would take to get me to reconsider, with definate time frames attached. I kept a copy. At least once a week I'd look at that list to see if I could check off any of those things. NOT ONE EVER. I found that list about 10 years after I left and read it again. He still had not made a single change. It's over 20 years now and he still hasn't. He's still the liar and user I came to realize he had been all along.

I'll put this in perspective for you in terms of who he is. He's running for US Congress. He did in 2018 as well and lost. He lost in a district that should have overwhelmingly voted for him based on party preference. And he comes from a long line of politicians, who have been US Congressment, State Senators, and even his cousin who went to prison for his role as Chief of Staff for a Governor who also went to prison. He lost because his own party figured out what he really stood for, which is conning people out of money and telling lies to do it. It was actually even the subject of a CNN report.

It is who he has always been and always will be, and no amount of love and rose colored glasses will ever change it. And interestingly, one of the biggest lies they try and get you to believe is that if you just hang in there with them, it will all be different. That only your continued love can make them a better person. Their ability to control you depends on you believing that lie. And as soon as you do you're back on the shelf, until you are no longer yourself. This is what we are trying to spare you.