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Nope Skeeter.

There is zero value in you seeing the MC. So you expect to bring him/her to your side? Whats the point? And who cares?!!!

Let the XH keep going. If he changes great, but right now hes just being manipulative. See how he reacts when you don't. Thats a better sign of what hes thinking. He's still trying to control you, control the outcome. Those are all red flags.

There is no value at all in you telling your side of the story to a MC. Zero value. Stay NC and keep moving forward. You cannot heal when you continue to pick at the scab. Let yourself heal, and keep NC.

Sorry I am late to the party on this thread... Skeeter, why do you feel like you have to do this? You are NC for a reason. My advice for you would be to NOPE right on outta this one.

That being said, it would piss me off and freak me out if my xwh therapist ever wanted to hear from me and TBH not sure how I would take it, so I get being conflicted.

Thanks everyone - yes, Halftime - it's totally about control. He's been obsessed with the fact that I won't go to MC for a quite some time. He thinks if he can manipulate me back there, the MC can magically get me to reconsider the marriage.

My ex hasn't done anything to show change. Nothing. Said he would do a timeline - nope. Said he would read the book on helping your spouse heal - think he read a few pages and abandoned that endeavor. Still making dates with the hot Latina ex-cons from work as of a few weeks ago - he's done nothing and he wants a marriage counselor to fix it for him?

Yeah, no. Not happening. You all rock.

That being said, it would piss me off and freak me out if my xwh therapist ever wanted to hear from me and TBH not sure how I would take it, so I get being conflicted.

Ellie, you made me realize there's a part of me kind of hoping the MC/IC gives me some tidbit, some between the lines wink and nod - letting me know yes, he's irredeemable, go in peace.

This guy has been seeing him weekly for 4-5 months - I want to know what he thinks. I'm accepting all of this for what it is as best as you can accept reality being put in the washer on the spin cycle, but it's still a damned baffling experience.

I would actually go, not because of any interest in partaking of MC. I would let them know my decision to leave and ask them to get this through to my STXH! One short appointment, job done and the IC/MC can then start working with the truth of what's going on rather than the BS he's currently being fed....

Yes, Carissma, That's a really good idea. Maybe that's truly what the MC's motivation is as well - to be able to tell my STBX, that the gig is up, let's work on getting past this.

Maybe I'm dreading the finality in that. Everything is moving so fast. I was a newlywed two years ago and now I'm getting divorced? We were just getting started. Whiplash.

Agreed wholeheartedly regarding sex addiction. Just another way for terrible people to keep from taking accountability for being terrible. What a load of horse shit.

I'm spiteful, so part of me would enjoy going to the MC and telling him off in person, but an email response is probably best.

"No, I will not meet with you. Not now, not ever. And if you are so easily manipulated by his obvious bullshit to the point that you would infringe upon my own boundaries and mental well-being in this very difficult time I think maybe you, or perhaps some of your peers, should thoroughly re-examine whether you deserve your license or not."

I also wouldn't meet with the MC. Since separating my STBX wants to go to a 'Family Counselor' with him and the kids. I was like hell no! I told him I absolutely think the kids should get counseling and also reminded him that I have already been in therapy for 7 years and what therapy has he gotten... crickets.

My STBX is a master manipulator. I told him the only counseling I would get with him is how to co-parent after separation.

Hey guys catching up.

Yep..MCs suck ass. The first one literally "tisk tisk" me, when I informed her that I told my 24-year-old son....he was in the house, when shit hit the fan...when I discovered the whores.

It was early out from DD and I told him he had to seek an MC...I didn't know the extent of his "problem" yet. Turns out he called her up and whined to her about feeling shame, in terms of his son.... so naturally, I was victim shamed by a like-minded narc M.C..

The next one counseled us together and seperately, while he still hadnt come clean. She asked him what his concerns were and he said finances...from there it was about spending and bills... never mind the money spent on prostitutes. These women councelors are charmed by these fools. Ugh...gives a bad taste in my mouth.

HopefulTelephone, I'm with you. These councelors and meetings will NEVER EVER call them the abuser that they are. Never hold them accountable in terms of how this affects us as a human being... it would flatten their fragile egos, and they would stop going to counceling.

Let's be real, they go to to cover their ass..it really is pointless. If it were "helping", they would be heartbroken for how this affects us.

My husband would literally run away, when I trigger. It's a control tactic, so hasnt any accountability. He blame shifts and the cycle continues. Final blow was him screaming at me in public, the drive home and the house...this was his response to my confronting similar shit behavior...I was calm and he literally tried to gaslight me and claimed I was irate...all this while he screamed.... it was so surreal... I have seen this from my childhood, I knew that was it.

He refuses to realize that his continuous behavior is what cycles the triggers. Hes always been this person...very cowardly and shifts blame....yells when questioned or confronted. I filed and we are now in seperate rooms...I confront some triggers, by way of text...I seriously dont know why... there is nothing profound that's going go come from this characters texts, let alone he actually sits down and actually speaks empatheticaly.

Most times he just shuts completely down....more control. The loneliness is the worst... I'm trying to go out more, but it doesnt help much...

[This message edited by DashboardMadonna at 5:45 PM, December 20th (Friday)]

I'm spiteful, so part of me would enjoy going to the MC and telling him off in person, but an email response is probably best.

Yes, there's that. I do want to tell this counselor, whether by email or in person, that it sure doesn't look like he knows wtf he's doing. My STBX is one of these super pushy people who won't take No for an answer - a therapist should not cave into that but it's like Dashboard Madonna wrote:

These councelors and meetings will NEVER EVER call them the abuser that they are. Never hold them accountable in terms of how this affects us as a human being... it would flatten their fragile egos, and they would stop going to counceling.

I don't doubt my STBX would up and quit if the therapist got real. I get taking baby steps with someone as reactive and emotionally stunted as my STBX but he's become more distorted in his thinking in the last 4-5 months of therapy, less remorseful, more angry, same constant blame shifting.

My husband gets angry to shut me down. He's perfectly content living in his own little apartment half a mile away doing fuck knows what with fuck knows who and poking my cage periodically about how much he wants me back while doing exactly nothing I've asked of him.

I should have made it clear in my post that I would attend the appointment on my own. No joint anything, a one on one talk with the MC to state my situation, making it clear there would be no talk of reconciliation or rescuing the marriage or my WH.

During my H’s affair I suggested counseling. He refused. I went alone.

Now it’s dday2 and I told him I am divorcing him. He begs to reconcile. He wants to go to counseling. So I go.

I listen to 30 minutes of him saying he wants to Reconcile. Blah blah blah. I was soooo angry 😡 and I unleashed it all.

My exact words were “in what delusional world do you live in that you think I would ever consider staying married to you”.

Funny how we ended up very happily reconciled. We did not have marriage counseling. But my H did every thing he Could to make amends. And I saw it.

Thanks is the only thing that started the recovery and gave me some hope.

I suggest IF you go see the MC you go in two cars. You tell the MC there is no hope to or chance fir the marriage b/c the STBXH has bit changed and done anything you asked him to do to mend the marriage.

And then you leave and go home. It’s not a discussion to hear any advice or the opinion of the MC. It’s a statement of fact.

And at least he can stop harassing you about going b/c he thinks it is the magic answer.

Carissma, yes, it's intended to be one on one - no STBX

1stWife, your story boils it down so well for me. If my STBX were remorseful and doing all the things needed to reconcile, MC wouldn't even be required to get me on board.

My STBX seems to think he can do nothing he's been asked to do and fix this by spending an hour a week with the MC.

My exact words were “in what delusional world do you live in that you think I would ever consider staying married to you”.

I may repeat this verbatim. It's exactly how I feel. And it's not based on what he did in terms cheating as much as it is on what he's done after being caught, that's killed the marriage - that he would betray and traumatize me and respond to discovery, not with remorse, but with rage, blame shifting and continued lies.

Someone who could do that is utterly without empathy and that's frightening. Who knows what other ways this lack of empathy will manifest itself in the years to come? Will he abandon me if I get sick? Steal from me? Leave for work one day and never come home?

full disclosure, I've not read all replies.

but I might reframe this - NOT as a way to find hope for the M. You are clear about that, and cognizant that you are doing your best on the 180 and NC, tho not "1000% there". Being aware seems healthy on that front.

But as a way to possibly help ease the path to D and ultimate coparenting?

If his IC has info that you suspect has not been provided, you are right - that is NOT your job to help him or fix him or whatever wrt the M.

However, I can see benefits to you wrt a D bc no matter what, he will always be your kids' dad. coparenting with a WS can suck bigtime (I'm not even D and my kids are both "adults" and my WH issues and our joint communication issues can create clusterf*cks - just had a HUGE one yesterday). So the point would be "I'm here bc I intend to divorce, which is not negotiable. However, I am willing to do what I can to work with WH on how to best proceed and become healthy coparents for our kids".

But - all that is moot if you don't feel you are in a place of strength for that perspective & approach with his IC, in which case Tush is (as usual) spot on.

just another perspective.

ETA:

These councelors and meetings will NEVER EVER call them the abuser that they are. Never hold them accountable in terms of how this affects us as a human being... it would flatten their fragile egos, and they would stop going to counceling.

I disagree. YES there are IC/MC who are in this boat (and I've had one). Listen to Minwalla's interviews (either on helping couples heal or betrayal recovery [may have that 2nd one wrong]. Minwalla was a pioneer in the relational betrayal trauma model for CSATS (and patricia carnes' interview on helping couples heal speaks to that struggle). He unequivocally calls a "secret sexual life" ABUSE. The first thing in the trauma model is teaching the SA (or WS) about the trauma and working on empathy. Calling it abuse, calling them abusers and educating them about the trauma is the FIRST step for a CSAT using the trauma model.

Whether the SA label is bullshit WS apologist or not, who knows? I don't see a lot of benefit in focusing on my WH's Dx - that sounds like a him problem. The me problem is what is he doing to become healthy and a safe partner? (and the answer so far has been pretty much nothing but going through the motions... like going to weight watchers will help him lose weight even if he doesn't change one thing about his eating or exercise habits )

[This message edited by gmc94 at 12:17 PM, December 21st, 2019 (Saturday)]

I like the weight watchers analogy bc he's also baffled by not losing weight when he keeps eating junk food on a daily basis - shows how his brain works - wishing it makes it so.

Fortunately we have no children together. He's been a so-so step parent to my 20 year-old with special needs. My son has a dad and he and my STBX weren't particularly close so luckily I don't think that will come into play.

But along those lines - the therapist helping drive home the reality of where our marriage is and helping him come to terms with it might either ease the D process or help my STBX wake up.

He would be outraged by any suggestion that he or his behavior were abusive. He's so clueless, just so wrapped up in his self-pity and victimhood that everything he does is justified, which automatically means, to him, that it can't be abusive.

Dashboard Madonna said:

MCs arent trained much if any in regards to infidelity

This is so true, but why? Infidelity is, sadly such a big part of dysfunctional marriages, either as a catalyst or symptom. It seems that training in MC that doesn't involve infidelity is absolutely absurd.

Yes, Cheatee,

What brings people to MC in the first place? It's usually a crisis and infidelity has got to be one of the top 3 crises couples have.

I do think there is such a thing as SA. I also think sometimes personality disorders mimic SA. Would you stick around a heroin addict? So don’t stick around a sex addicted person. Same song and dance. YOU are their problem. Yeah, right. A SA who is committed to changing actually shows changes. So far yours is spending money for therapy to get you off his back and to gaslight you into staying married.

From what I read this is one of the most difficult addictions to kick because the sex drive is part of our makeup.

Good luck.

Hi Cooley,

Oddly my STBX's IC, who is a SA specialist, doesn't think he's an SA. He says it's more a compulsion. I don't know what the distinction is honestly.

My STBX is also a self-described gambling addict and has lost much in his life due to it but bristles at the SA label. I don't know what else you call someone as obsessed with porn and hookers as he is, who is willing to put themselves into debt and lose their marriage over it, but an addict!

My STBX basically lost his daughter 20 some years ago because of his phone sex addiction - and even that didn't motivate him to get help. He still blames the girl's mother for being a prude because she didn't want him spending hours on phone sex lines while he was supposed to be caring for their infant - plus running up hundreds of dollars in bills on her parent's phone line.

I drive down the street and literally within 2-5 minutes of our house there are 4-5 massage parlors and if you expand the radius - there are dozens. It's hopeless for someone with a sexual compulsion or addiction.

I'd be more inclined to stay with a heroin addict I think because it's not as personal as sexual betrayal.

His addiction is not personal.

Hard to believe I’m sure.