SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

UneedToSmile: Yes, I have thought a lot about what if he does not follow through. I am ok to pull the trigger and move forward with legal action. At this point, I am that disgusted and that detached.

In fact, the more I think about it, at this point, I fear he WILL follow through. Why? Because if he does, that will mean that we will move back in together and attempt a trial reconcilliation. And to me, that means he will bring all of the emotional chaos back into our marriage with him when he comes back. I don't think I'll have a moment's peace because I imagine myself spending all of my time checking up on him rather than just living my life.

To quote Sam from Affair Recovery, he needs to be 100% in "anything it takes" mode. My WH is not in that mode.

And I don't think I have the mental and emotional inertia anymore. At least not at this point. Perhaps that will change?

I did for for the first few months after DD. Reconciliation was all I wanted. I begged him not to move out. But the longer he drags his feet on my requests, the more detached I become. His withholding of all safety, transparency and accountability has caused me to back away from him and our marriage. Even just a few steps every day.

And one last thought.... At the exact same time as all of this, I am reluctant to make a permanent legal move right away though because I understand that this is a long process (mentally and emotionally), and even if this is my current mindset, it could very likely change again down the road.

I can only share my experience. As I said above I was “blessed” with dday2 4 months after dday 1. On dday 2 additional info was given by WH regarding more sex and location of it such as sex in our family car.

At that point I was ready to end it. I WANTED to end it. I was not willing to be part of a triangle anymore (not that I knowingly was before but I had no proof they kept in contact although I strongly suspected it).

So dday 2 happened by WH disclosing the contact maintained. I listened to what he was piling on me for what felt like ages. He finished his confession by vouching he’d do anything I wanted. I told him I am done but I need to stay till a few months later in this marriage sham due to my dd (some important changes happening in her life, she was 10).

So I gave him the option to leave but he asked if he can try and win me back during those months. I told him my requests.

The sex car: it had to go and I will never set foot in it till it went. He loved that car. It was a luxury one he dreamt of for years before and I encouraged him to get it. (No doubt ow thought it’s a status statement). Dday 2 was on a Saturday, the car was gone and swapped for a second hand functional car by the following Tuesday.

The ow: call with her, the three of us, where he tells her she means nothing, he’s committed to his family. This happened the next day.

Additional access to his work laptop (COW) given on the spot.

IC: he was in IC by the following week with a psychologist and also agreed to disclose their sessions in one session with me (that’s because he was in IC during false R and lying to the IC so I needed to hear he’s not twisting the story anymore).

Phone bills: as his phone is from work the bills are centralised. He arranged to request a bill for his number every time I ask for one. I asked twice in two years for a period of 3 months each time and he provided them.

Additionally he vouched to do anything I needed and that included discussing his circumstances with his line manager which meant that he can never miss a call from me and can FaceTime several times a day.

I don’t know how he did it, looking back it seems crazy but we had lengthy calls and he would FaceTime me from meetings, never missed a call and texts were answered in minutes. This is still the case two years later, he doesn’t ever let my calls go to voicemail.

So conclusion: if he wants the marriage, truly wants it, he will do what it takes to give you peace of mind. My WH used to stay on a call with me for 30 min while I had anxiety attacks. Because he knew in those moments I was the one who was actually putting in the effort by still being in a situation that caused me anxiety attacks. Removing him from my life would have been the easier option. I’ll go back through your list with thoughts on how long I BELIEVE a man who wants his marriage should take to complete.

For safety:

• No more contact with her and her family, no matter how much they call, email, write or text

• Change your phone number, canceling the current one for a new one

• Delete your current email accounts and establish new ones

• Trade in your old phone and get a new one

• Delete their photos on your ipad

• If they ever find you, block their phone numbers and email addresses

• Call your doctor and get tested for sexually transmitted diseases

• The boat is to be donated away or sold

For transparency:

• Remove thumb print access to your phone

• Print out call/text history from Verizon website from DD to present

• Remove password access to your ipad

• Change all passwords (yours and mine) to the one same family-use password

• We merge our cell phone bills so our call/text history is transparent

• If they reach out, share that with me and let me know

• Daily check-ins

• Ongoing counseling

First point: am I right to understand there is still contact? In that case you should request a NC call with ow, or NC letter. This should be done immediately.

Change of number: it can be done in one day. Same with new email addresses, phones, pics etc (I personally would back those up on a memory stick for safe keeping by me).

Basically looking at your list the only action that may take longer than a day is the STD test (my WH scheduled his on dday 2 and did it two days later), the boat being sold (but it can be advertised within a week), and merging phone bills. The rest I would demand NOW.

Regarding moving out: it doesn’t sound like it was your decision, it sounds like it was his and he is test driving his AP. Personally I would ask that if he wants his marriage he moves back home immediately to work on it. He doesn’t get to behave like a bachelor while also pretending to want you. No socialising without you, no nights out until you feel more safe.

Again this isn’t about punishment. This is what you NEED. Reconciliation is bloody hard with a remorseful WS. You lose your peace of mind, your mental health. You don’t know which way is up or down. Unless he does everything you need there is no point in my opinion.

It sounds like you’re pretty determined. It sounds like you’re willing to lose the marriage in order to save it. Good. Hold on that feeling and put your foot down. You’ll be better off without him if he’s not willing to do all it takes. But at least you won’t lose your self respect.

Thanks, Luna10. My WH insists that he has not had contact with the OW since August 19, 2019. But I have absolutely NO proof of this, as he provides zero transparency.

I am genuinely glad for you that your WH was immediately attentive to your needs. What a relief that would be. I still live in the same hyper-vigilance and heightened paranoia as I did last summer when my suspicions of his A began. They have never let up. I cannot live with it anymore.

And yes, the sex boat has GOT to go (just like your husband's sex car). We bought that boat together and named it after our daughter (who I miscarried at 12 weeks). The fact that he had his slutty whore on our boat, named after our daughter, fills me with so much disgust. No words.

Often I do wish he would move home, but there is a wrinkle to that: His mother is 83 and 100% dependent on him. She came to live with us when her husband died last May, and she moved out with WH when he moved out in November for our separation. She lives with him now at his new place, as he cares for her (health, finances, etc.) I cannot tell you what a burden she has been at THE most difficult time in our marriage. She came to live with us in May, and DD happened soon after.

She is a HUGE hinderance in us being able to freely and spontaneously speak about the affair in our own home, to discuss our current situation, our feelings, have fights and talks, make emotional connections and just be in the emotional moment. The frustration of this is beyond words. I imagine other couples go through something similar with children in the home. With her, there is very little difference.

She is extremely forgetful and fragile. Her presence in our home has been a huge irritation and made DD and its aftermath a million times harder. She has overheard the yelling, screaming and fighting, and I am sure our separation is a relief for her.

She clings to my WH, as he is her only child and only caregiver. She would be destitute on her own.

Between WHs mother, the OW and the OWs kids all taking up his heart, I feel as though I am squeezed right out of his life and heart, like he belongs to everyone in the world except for me.

I don't know how to reconcile with him while his mother is in the picture and living in our home (if they do come home). She sucks all of the energy out of the room and our home. She is incapable of living on her own and has nowhere else to go.

So, one of the things I dread about WH coming back home to reconcile is his bringing his mother with him. I wish we could afford to build an in-law apartment for her outback for her.

I literally tell myself that after she passes away, and he has done his personal growth (both might take a while!) there might be a chance for our marriage again someday.

[This message edited by Louisianalisa at 7:25 AM, January 4th (Saturday)]

Sassylee, I know you and everyone else is right. And I need to make a list just like LAlisa. ....but I can’t right now. You are 100% correct that it’s ridiculous to move on like this, I just can’t push myself to do it because I’m so afraid of the outcome. I am so glad that LALisa is strong and ready to do this. I truly hope it accomplishes an end result she’ll be happy with. Truly I wish you all the best LALisa!!! No one should have to deal with these things and make theses kinds of decisions. I’m convinced that something telling will happen for me soon and that I’ll have to take the leap.

I am genuinely glad for you that your WH was immediately attentive to your needs. What a relief that would be. I still live in the same hyper-vigilance and heightened paranoia as I did last summer when my suspicions of his A began. They have never let up. I cannot live with it anymore

Louisianalisa that is the thing, he wasn’t immediately attentive. He did pretend to be for 4 months though. His attentiveness was after dday 2. He did everything once I was willing to lose it all. Once I was determined. Once I said enough.

My story is not unique, if you read around you’ll find out that the majority of cheaters wake up only when the BS finds their bitch boots and stops trying to nice them back in. Only once the BS draws boundaries and says enough. You know why? Because whilst you think you are a decent human being and reasoning with an adult, they are thinking of how to keep you engaged a bit more and buy more time while they also test drive the AP.

You know what my WH said to me once? That on dday 1 he knew he had no intention to get divorce or break his marriage. But he also didn’t want to lose the AP. So he secured me by doing all the begging not to throw him out and once I accepted he told his AP what a bitch I was and how I was going to keep his kids away from him hence he cannot leave me.

Shocking right? Well not anymore, not after you read so many threads where the cheater does the same thing.

What makes them commit is taking their security away. Literally, me or her, decide today. Even better, I don’t care, I’m done seems to wake them up even quicker.

Now I don’t advise playing games. Be ready to potentially end your marriage. But realistically you don’t have a marriage now anyway.

[This message edited by Luna10 at 5:22 AM, January 5th (Sunday)]

Luna10, I am at the point where I am ready to lose my marriage if need be. In a million ways it would be a relief. And I can truthfully say to him now that I don't care.

I am giving him one week. If he addresses my list of needs, then we can continue marriage counseling and keep open the possibility of reconciling. If he does not, I am seeing a lawyer.

I am prepared to say this tomorrow at our counseling appointment. It will be so freeing to say the words. I am at the point where I truly do not care about the outcome, I just need peace.

[This message edited by Louisianalisa at 6:14 AM, January 5th (Sunday)]

LL, your list is great and a week is plenty of time for him to do that for you. You will do just fine with or without him.

The whole caring for mom thing is quite the burden and give. The other issue he has had makes me wonder if there is some Fd up dynamic there that he has some deep seated issues that he needs to work through before he can be a real partner.

I hear some strength and clarity in your voice today and that's good but understand that even of he meets those requirements he may not still be the partner you deserve until he fixes those deep seated mother son complex issues.

I look at the “romance” that is between them. I can tell their future if they end up together. My neighbor was her husbands’s nurse for 1/3 of their marriage. He did not have dementia. He had an old body. It happens to us all eventually but when there is a big age difference romance goes out the window and caretaking comes in. Another woman in our church was also much younger than her ill husband. The few times she could leave were when a neighbor would stay with her husband. I guess some relationships can manage age differences but I haven’t seen any. He is living in fantasy land. You need to look after yourself financially.

My question though, has to do with his lack of transparency. I have given him a list of ten things I need for him to do in order to begin to rebuild my trust. Reasonable things like, remove the passcode access to his phone, share his email password, get tested for STDs, delete all emails from his AP, etc. I gave him this list months ago and out of the ten tasks, he has only done one. He has deleted her emails. That's all. The other nine are still not done.

Don’t put up with this. Tell him you’re not interested in making him walk over hot coals. But if he can’t do these simple, very easy things then he’s not remorseful and he’s not interested in reconciliation. It’s a choice he needs to make. The calendar for him to act needs to be very tight.

I put up with a very similar foot dragging for far too long (3 years). While I enjoy my wife’s company, it drove a wedge very deep into my soul. I’ve been in limbo and frankly I’m probably headed for a divorce sooner rather than later.

If your husband wants a divorce, he’s doing a bang up job of ensuring it. Even if you tolerate this in the short term, it’s killing your soul. And you’ll eventually walk if he ddoesn’t step up. And soon.

Lay this out for him in no uncertain terms. “I love you, but you really need to pull your head out of your ass and move. Now. If you won’t or can’t, then let’s be done. You have two weeks.”

Thumos, and everyone here.... I have been in such a fog of grief and shock since DD that even the most obvious things I should do (like give him a deadline) have been lost on me. I am grateful for your objectivity, which is something I have not had. In our MC counseling appt this past Monday I gave him one week. If he did not follow through (NO negotiating) then I take legal action.

I told him that I may be broken-hearted, but I am still strong. I told him my emotional safety is #1, and if I cannot get that in my marriage, then I am OUT. I meant it from my heart and my gut. He could see that I meant it. I think my husband drove home from that appointment in shock. I drove home a new woman.

Then, two days later, the one year anniversary came of when their EA went to a PA. I was a wreck all day and cried all day. He reached out to me (via text) four times that day and I refused to reply.

Now, here we are, two days from his deadline and I have had a knot in my stomach that is killing me. His one week is up this coming Monday, Jan. 13th. We have another MC session that day, in which I will find out what he has done, if anything. I told him if he is going to do only a few things, or do them half assed, then not bother at all.

To my surprise, he reached out yesterday and asked to see me this morning. He is coming over at 10:00 am, and I am literally terrified of what he is going to tell me. He said he just wants to talk. Not negotiate, but talk. I run the scenarios around in my head:

Will he tell me he cannot live under such scrutiny and he wants out? Will he tell me he is still with the OW? That he wants to move back in? I have no idea how this talk will go this morning and I am very scared. I have been up since 5am cleaning the house because I need to get out this nervous and scared energy. So much adrenaline.

And while I hope more for reconciliation than divorce, I can't help but be fearful that our marriage will be more about waiting for the other shoe to drop and me monitoring his devices and "pain hunting" than just relaxing into our life and learning to love again.

Hey Lisa,

Just wanted to send some support while you're waiting. I'm thinking about you this morning.

Lisa, you are doing a great job of standing up for yourself. You WILL get through this. You will strive no matter what the outcome. Good luck with your talk and your session on Monday.

Thank you everyone for the support today! WH came over and we talked for 4 1/2 hours. There was no talk of divorce or of reconciling. It was much less serious than I thought it to be.

He simply wanted some one-on-one time with me to see how I was doing. We talked for so long we had to take time out to have lunch together, and then get back into the discussion. After 4 hours, I saw him start to glaze over. Emotion overload. So we wrapped it up 30 minutes later so he could drive back to his place.

He said he felt grateful that we are speaking more freely with eachother than we have in a very long time. I said, "What do we have to lose at this point?"

He reassured me that he loves me and is working on my list. I thanked him for acting on the impulse to reach out to me for our visit today. He is so skittish around me, he is so afraid of hurting me more that he already has. As a result, he tends to withdraw for fear of hurting me or saying/doing the wrong thing. We cleared the air about a lot of things. We each said to the other that we miss each other. That is a good sign.

Whew.

I'm so glad we talked. Afterwards I went out and bought a pint of chocolate ice cream for myself. Binge therapy.

Good Job LL, you are even stronger than you think. Let go of the outcome. Focus on you and getting what you need from your husband. Even when WS’s do everything right, it’s no guarantee the marriage will survive - but always remember, you will. You will survive the outcome, whatever it may be.

It is past the deadline today. Did he follow through?

IHatePickingName: Someone remembered? Thank you for remembering that yesterday was WS's deadline. I came back here today for support because it's been an awful 24 hours.

We were supposed to have a MC appt. last night (we were to meet there) so he could report in. He never even showed up at the appointment. So much disrespect for me and our counselor.

He had been keeping in touch last week and I knew he started on a few of the things I asked him to do, but I don't think anything has been done. I've been in the dark. He texted me a few minutes ago asking how he could find his call/text history on the Verizon site. I have ignored his text.

I am so hurt and disrespected. I called the lawyer and plan to see him Saturday. It is still not what I want to do. I do not want to see a lawyer. But I do not want to be a doormat either. I told him that if it's not all done by Jan. 13th, then don't bother at all.

The thing that pisses me off is that he has to have all of the control of the timing of this and the pace in which he goes. There is no respect for my boundaries or timeframe that is critical for me.

So his text is sitting on my phone unanswered. No clue what to do now.

****Sigh****

You can just not respond.

Or, you can send him one text, telling him by not showing up at MC, and not meeting your deadline, on top of everything else he has done, he has decided he is done with the marriage,therefore he needs to figure out his Verizon account himself, as that is something a wife would help him with, and he has fired you from that job.

Then either block his number and email, or set it to go to spam,and turn off your notifications from his number.

He showed you exactly who he is yesterday.

Believe him.

Your response unfortunately is "You missed the deadline. My attorney will be in touch with next steps."

His visit over the weekend was to butter you up and remind you of how wonderful things can be.....so that you won't enforce a consequence for his actions or lack thereof. He is a chickenshit and a manipulator.

Time with him created some bonding and I'm guessing sex was involved to increase confusion and emotional attachment. Sister you are strong and smart and capable. Draw your line in the sand and stick to it. Either dont respond to his text or send the one I recommended. He will then realize that you might actually mean business. Then stay the course regardless of how actions. See the attorney start the paperwork implement the 180 and remember the phrase FTG (Fuck that guy). When he texts say it to yourself. Say it out loud. Scream it from the rooftop. Do whatever you have to to make you the priority and protect yourself.