SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

As time has passed, I just am tired of it. I want him to admit that he did think of us and that in the end, we didn't matter to him at that moment in time.

yup, me too

I think compartmentalizations is a “real” thing, but I’m not sure how much I buy it w/my WH. WH says he and his girlfriend would talk about me and my life and our children all the time. But maybe that IS compartmentalization in that he could talk to her about his family, but manage to avoid FEELING anything that countered his seeing himself as a good person whilst engaging in a secret sexual life.

Yes, compartmentalization is a choice. It's just usually a long-practiced choice, one that allows them to not feel. A good compartmentalizer is a dangerous partner imo. They have to be very aware that they are capable of ignoring things so that they don't compartmentalize in ways that allow hurtful behaviorlike having a secret life, keeping hurtful secrets, participating in unhealthy behaviors like drugs, gambling, over spending, ignoring times they are hurt by shelving those feelings and avoiding conflict, etc.

Conflict avoidants are excellent compartmentalizers. Due to FOO (usually) they learn to put their anger and hurt in a compartment and switch the channel since they are often powerless as children to actually articulate that anger. Being out of practice and uncomfortable with their own anger then, they enter marriage and keep all anger in until it becomes a festering resentment. Unaware that their compartmentalization and avoidance is their own issue and not their spouse's fault, they justify cheating as a way to get back their power over this anger they feel. It's very passive aggressive. Most compartmentalizers can be very passive aggressive.

. Damn, OIN, I think you just described my WH to a “T”. His answer is still “compartmentalization” to most of my questions, and he seems to have little or no self awareness, which keeps him quite firmly in the “dangerous” category.

But maybe that IS compartmentalization in that he could talk to her about his family, but manage to avoid FEELING anything that countered his seeing himself as a good person whilst engaging in a secret sexual life.

She, most likely, was in the "say anything to get laid" box. You are not.

I've not had an A, but I can absolutely tell you, I did a lot of compartmentalizing with women in the past. When I was "on", I was on; that woman was the focus of all my attention. But then, like a switch, I'd move to something else and easily never think of her again. Didn't matter how many "I love you's" I said, it was very easy for me to disengage and move on. The hard thing, if you saw what I said to women before my W and what I say to my W today, they look pretty similar. The difference isn't in the words, it's in the actions that back those words up.

My H doesn't use the compartmentalization excuse, but I know he does it. He has had to become very adept at it. When he is deployed, especially to a war zone, he has to be able to block everything and everyone else out except that moment or people might die. He has to be laser focused on the task at hand.

He also does this weird thing where he quickly assesses the danger/safety of a new environment or situation. If he decides there is no danger, he completely checks out. Another skill learned from being in war. He has to be on such high alert in the thick of it that, once the threat is gone, his brain and body shut down from exhaustion.

It was probably easier for him to compartmentalize his family and his cheating since we weren't living together at the time. Out of sight, out of mind with that laser focus on whatever was right in front of him.

[This message edited by cocoplus5nuts at 6:59 AM, February 27th (Thursday)]

Since this thread has evolved, I want to add my broader interpretation of compartmentalization.

I believe compartmentalization is a coping mechanism we all use when we are experiencing cognitive dissonance and we ultimately use justification to move along.

With affairs, I think the process above happens over and over again on a slippery slope, with each justification getting worse and worse. The cheaters keep pushing down the feelings of guilt and shame that stem from them going against their core beliefs, move through that by justifying their actions as the relationship becomes more and more dangerous.

Cognitive Dissonance ->Compartmentalization -> Justification ->Repeat (This cycle gets repeated in a giant circle that I'd label slippery slope)

I believe we all compartmentalize to some degree. I think the degree you do it is what makes you a healthy or unhealthy person.

I use compartmentalization as a professional and mom. The guilt I feel when I work late instead of being with my kids needs to be pushed aside because frankly, I don’t like those feelings. So I justify not being with my kids by saying to myself “girl you got a job to do.” The guilt I feel going out and having a girls night instead of being with my family gets pushed aside because “girl you deserve a glass of wine.” I’m a good mom and I adore my kids and put my family first, but I’m working late or getting a glass of wine with my friend (cognitive dissonance). My gosh I feel guilty, which is shitty feeling I don’t want to feel so I push it aside (compartmentalization). I deserve this glass of wine/I have a job to do (justifying my cognitive dissonance). I keep myself in check by watching how many girls nights I have and how many nights I stay late.

Now putting it into the context of an affair:

Cognitive Dissonance: I’m a good person, I love my wife, I adore my kids, I have a great life, I believe in monogamy, I have integrity and honor my values, BUT I’m flirting with this woman/deleting evidence of our friendship/ giving and receiving all this attention and validation/I’m feeling all these luuuuuuuurve feelings/I’m having an affair.

Compartmentalization: I feel guilty for feeling these feelings/acting on them. I feel guilty on my way home from seeing my affair partner, I feel guilty calling my wife to give her the lie as to why I’m going to be “late” tonight, I feel shame that I’m jeopardizing everything I’ve worked for. But I don’t want to feel these uncomfortable feelings of guilt and shame, and I sure as heck don’t want to bring attention to my spouse because that would really cause uncomfortable feelings. So, away they get stuffed.

Justification: She’s just a coworker who I happen to find attractive and I have to do this project with her. It’s just a couple of texts after hours. Just a few texts that have nothing to do with our project. It’s just coffee. She says the feelings are mutual. It was just a kiss. This feels so good. If this feels so good, my marriage must be wrong. My affair partner understands me, I can't even talk to my wife. My wife gets angry all the time and my AP is so happy. Things are so easy in my affair, and their so hard at home. I could see a future with my affair partner. I have never felt like this before, it's gotta be true luuuuuuurve.

Slippery Slope: Each little tick to the next event through the justifications listed above.

Negative feelings keep us in check with who we believe we are and our actions. If we act out in naughty ways and compartmentalize those icky feelings instead of confronting them, we justify our actions. THAT is what makes a master compartmentalizer unsafe, in my opinion. If they choose to move through compartmentalization to justifying their actions without checking themselves, they will make unhealthy & selfish decisions till the cows come home. BUT. If they face their ish and have tough, honest conversations with themselves or the people their decisions affect, they won’t keep moving down the slippery slope.

I firmly believe compartmentalization is not an excuse to having an affair. It's an explanation to how a WS ticks and how they cope with their feelings. It is nowhere near a WHY. Those answers lie in the cognitive dissonance step in my opinion. WHY DID YOU GO AGAINST WHO YOU BELIEVE YOU ARE AT YOUR CORE? Why did you go against your marriage? Why did you do X in your affair? Why did you like feeling the way you did?Why? Why? Why?

Whew! That was therapeutic to write out.

Nice Post, Notthesidechick. I think you captured it very well. What's hard to understand, and hard to explain is that the more justifications you make, the more you believe them. But, it's because you want to believe them because you want to continue the affair, not because Ap is great but because you like the feelings.

The longer that goes on the more things you find wrong with your spouse, your marriage, etc. You like the story you invented better...and the person you were pretending to be...and to me that's where the fog lies. Coming back from believing one thing to seeing what is really true.

I would never have understood this, so I can always understand when others don't.

I would see an excuse more about the whys of the affair, not really how it was conducted. BUT, I do think that a big part of the OP's issue is that her husband is not taking enough accountability, and that would read more as an excuse.

I call BS. Big time

Me, too. I just can't believe that my H didn't think about me at all. I have asked him what he was thinking through every step of their sexual encounters. He says he wasn't thinking about anything except the physical pleasure. I think he thought about me, but suppressed those thoughts. I think it was a conscious effort on his part.

I have to consciously turn my brain off and actively focus on sex in order to get into it. If I don't, my brain will go all over the place. Maybe there comes a point when I don't have to do that, but it's a lot of work at first.

Thank you. The entire concept of compartmentalization infuriates me. Its a story he tells himself, part of the justification program. It's a cop out excuse and I'm angry I couldn't learn to do it myself to help cope with the upheaval their now wide-opened compartments brought to my life. My WH has been adamant for two years that his affair and marriage were completely separate. When he was with his family he never thought about her. When he was with her he never thought or talked about his family. He thinks he had set boundaries and both sides to his life were completely separate. He said you were over here and she was over there. False.

Crickets chirp when I ask about the text remnants I find where they are discussing me, what I will or won't wear or will or won't do for him, or how our kids or dog are doing, or about the details of our family vacations, or when I find emails they wrote missing each other while they were on vacation with their families, or on Anniversary dates with their spouses. There was complete cross over at every turn. How can that be compartmentalization? Or how can you compartmentalize an underground affair in the face of your wife's devastation? Those are jedi -level mind tricks and I know he's not that good.

The only thing that I can say got compartmentalized completely was truth, accountability and responsibility. He interacted with her when he should have been paying attention to us, they shared intimate information about their spouses, jobs, children and even pets, while telling themselves they were respecting the privacy of their families. I don't see much in the way of boundaries and compartments in the facts I uncovered. Just a convenient ignoring of the truth so long as they don't get caught. I think if there were truly compartmentalization the AP should have known as much about me as I knew about her, absolutely nothing. I feel a little exposed and violated from the view in my compartment.

edited for typo and clarity.

[This message edited by whatisloveanyway at 7:57 AM, February 28th, 2020 (Friday)]

If I'm reading clearly, people who don't buy into compartmentalization are angry because their WS says they didn't think of them at all while cheating.

But, how is their ability to forget you entirely a benefit or a positive? Isn't it infuriating to you? That you can be forgotten? I was disgusted by it. Because it's willful, no question. But that they can do it is disgusting. I've witnessed many people do it many times, in various situations.

It seems to me that the Why, the How, the Fog, and Compartmentalization (aka did you think about me?) are all essentially the same piece of the cheating puzzle: there is no answer--zero--that will make a BS feel better. That's what a BS wants, but it is never going to happen. No matter what the WS says on these subjects. It doesn't mean the WS is lying, it means that a BS can never understand the dysfunctional coping and thinking of a WS. Because it's dysfunctional. Because the WS is broken.

You should still ask, of course. I just don't think the answers will ever satisfy.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 7:54 PM, February 27th (Thursday)]

It seems to me that the Why, the How, the Fog, and Compartmentalization (aka did you think about me?) are all essentially the same piece of the cheating puzzle: there is no answer--zero--that will make a BS feel better. That's what a BS wants, but it is never going to happen. No matter what the WS says on these subjects. It doesn't mean the WS is lying, it means that a BS can never understand the dysfunctional coping and thinking of a WS. Because it's dysfunctional. Because the WS is broken.

OIN - I think this gets right to the heart of the matter. My wife compartmentalized. It’s all about how she coped with her doing things that she knew internally were not just wrong but evil. She was hurting me, her children and herself yet still did it. Compartmentalizing allowed her to continue.

It doesn’t make me feel any better about what she did. And if she told me the opposite, that she thought of me throughout, I also wouldn’t feel any better. Neither one softens her actions. And no, I do not believe my wife is/was lying about compartmentalizing. It was how she was able to function and not fall apart. That’s it.

If your WS is using it as an excuse or as a way to say that “it’s not so bad because...,” then that’s a problem and that means you have other issues to address.

I have asked him what he was thinking through every step of their sexual encounters. He says he wasn't thinking about anything except the physical pleasure.

Just wanted to jump in on this one Coco because it sounds like your still searching for the answer here. Maybe this isn't what you want to hear, but that answer sounds shockingly honest to me. That is near word for word how I'd describe most of my past sexual encounters, I wasn't thinking about really anything or anyone beyond the physical pleasure. Shoot, I still do that today quite a bit to get myself to a place where I can enjoy sex with my W, I focus entirely on the physical and block out the emotional side of it (and with it, the mind movies and pain that go with that). If that is the truth from your WH, does it make it better or worse for you? If it's better, I really, really think you should consider believing it (much like everyone encourages me to believe that sex with the AP was "nothing special" because, for a lot of WW's, it's not).

Crickets chirp when I ask about the text remnants I find where they are discussing me, what I will or won't wear or will or won't do for him, or how our kids or dog are doing, or about the details of our family vacations, or when I find emails they wrote missing each other while they were on vacation with their families, or on Anniversary dates with their spouses.

Yep. Sorry, but if you are talking about me to someone else, you have not compartmentalized me.

OIN, it's shit either way. The problem with the compartmentalization excuse for me is that, a lot of times, it's just not true. How can you have compartmentalized me during the A if you were just talking about me to the AP? Either you make a conscious effort to forget me, or you just don't care. Most likely, both. Be fucking honest about it!

Last sip of wine, "Yeah, my wife has depression." Next thing you are kissing. Suddenly, you forgot all about me? Nope, I don't believe it works that way. You had to do some major mental gymnastics to push me away.

I still do that today quite a bit to get myself to a place where I can enjoy sex with my W, I focus entirely on the physical and block out the emotional side of it

This is exactly what I'm talking about, RIO. Sure, at some point along the way it becomes solely about the physical sensations. But, in the beginning at least, we all have to do some mental gymnastics to get in the mood. I don't disagree that my H was focused on the physical while in the midst of sex with the MOW. What I don't believe is that it didn't take a lot of mental gymnastics to get there.

My H starts kissing me and I remember I have to take a boy to the doctor tomorrow. Shit! I don't want to be thinking about my kids when I'm having sex with my H. I have to make that thought go away. Yes, the compartmentalization happens, but it's work.

That's why the line, "I didn't think of you at all," is so infuriating. It is so obviously a lie. I don't believe for one second that my H still loved me the entire time he was cheating. He did not care about or his children at that time. He only cared about himself. Tell me the truth, dammit! Of course, they probably don't know the truth since they are so good at even lying to themselves.

What I don't believe is that it didn't take a lot of mental gymnastics to get there.

To get to the point of being able to have sex with another women, no question at all, I agree with you there. That's like a study on mental gymnastics, both figuring out the right lies to tell her, the right lies to tell your W, setting up the situation where sex can happen. I'm exhausted thinking about it!

That's why the line, "I didn't think of you at all," is so infuriating. It is so obviously a lie. I don't believe for one second that my H still loved me the entire time he was cheating. He did not care about or his children at that time. He only cared about himself.

The last part, yes, he certainly cared about himself more than you, his children, and other things in life, no question at all about that. As an aside, that's why I have so much trouble with the "broken wall flower" talk we often get around a cheating wife. WTF, really people? This person isn't "broken" they are selfish as f**k and breaking other people around them. No, I don't think my wife cheated because she was "broken", I think she cheated because she's selfish, shocking so during the A (and before it if we take the sexual denial and other crap she did to me into account). Funny thing, I'm the one who's always thought of myself that way (selfish), and she's the one who actually is. Hilarious, right?

The first part though, I really can believe that. I've used this analogy before, but imagine your H loves to eat your cooking. And that you're a very accomplished chef. If he goes out to dinner with his buddies to a nice restaurant and enjoys a meal there, is he thinking of you? Is his enjoyment of that meal an indictment of your skills in the kitchen? IMHO, no, it's not, in fact, in that situation, I doubt he's even thinking about your cooking, he's just enjoying the meal in front of him. I think it's that way for a lot of the APs I know. They just aren't thinking about their wives, their families, what they have to lose at all, because, if they did, they wouldn't cheat, the risks are too high and the payoff, too low, even for me, who might be (per comments in other threads) the most sexually motivated man who ever lived. You can't think about the downside, you have to compartmentalize it away.

But I really do believe that first sentence, I think it's entirely possible he never thought of you (or your cooking) at all, it was just some fast food on the way home from the office. I know that's likely not all that comforting, but, at the same time, if this is a major pain point for you, perhaps it does help. Men typically have affairs to add (sex) where women more typically have affairs to replace (their husbands). If that pattern holds for your situation, then it's entirely reasonable, IMHO, to accept that he never stopped loving you. The problem is more "this is how you treat people you love?!" than it is "why didn't you love me".

The most common rationalization I hear for the first, and I'd be curious if you heard the same is "I didn't think you'd care". Which, expanding it, "You didn't really want to have sex with me anyway, so, what difference does it make if I get it somewhere else". That's a really common one that I've heard from cheating men, and, I must say, I felt exactly the same way before my W's A. Like sexual exclusivity to her really didn't matter, she didn't like sex, so what difference did it make if I got it somewhere else so long as I kept providing the things she did like (money, stability, friendship, etc). It's would have been a very compelling rationalization for me if I'd cheated, "she won't care"; while a complete lie, does, on the face, seem reasonable. I don't really like fixing the plumbing, if my wife hired someone to do "my job" at home, I wouldn't care very much. Now, I want to close and say this is COMPLETE BULLSHIT, of course she'd care, and it would be incredibly painful to her, but I'm trying to give the counterpoint, it would have been very easy for me to slip into the mindset that "She won't mind as long as it's just sex". And I think that a lot of men do just that, certainly a lot of the men I know do (and they are ALL wrong, every single one that's been "busted" has had a destroyed BS, as I'm sure all of us can easily predict).

As I read through these last few posts I really tried to picture what my mentality was at the time.

I am not a great compartmentalizer about emotions, that part that I said before was true. I think like someone else here said I think men are a bit better at that. I think that's why so many WW's sound more like it was an "exit" even if there was no real plan there because they just transfer attachments.

I think the concept that maybe you are looking for coco is...when he thought of you he thought of you or talked about you as an entity rather than a person. That's part of the dehumanizing factor of affairs. I talked about H some, but it was without true depth of thinking. I don't know how to describe that. But, I do think I made him an entity or an it rather than a person and kept numbing my feelings towards him.

I don't know if people who compartmentalize do that. Maybe that was compartmentalizing but I don't think so, I think if I was truly able to do that, then I would have been able to keep the feelings separate. Instead I had to numb and dehumanize one person while glorifying another. It's really sickening for me to think about, I mean really sickening.

Maybe that was compartmentalizing but I don't think so, I think if I was truly able to do that, then I would have been able to keep the feelings separate. Instead I had to numb and dehumanize one person while glorifying another. It's really sickening for me to think about, I mean really sickening.

IMHO, that's the opposite of compartmentalizing, it's exactly what I mean when I say a lot of affairs "bleed over" into the M. And it's also very much what my W did, put me down to the benefit of the AP. That's the part that I don't see commonly in men, they'll glorify their wives in one sentence, and then talk about their latest AP encounter in the next. The 2 are seperate boxes, they love their wives (or they say they do) and they love sex with their APs. It's just two different things, kind of like (I hate this analogy, BTW, but it's the first that popped to mind) the difference between romantic love for your spouse and love for your children. You really do love them both, just in very different ways. If I try a little harder, I would say that the men I know love their wives in the meaning that most of us would recognize (absent the cheating, of course) but love what their AP's do for them (sex) without caring very much/at all about the person doing it? Going back to my previous analogy, you might love your husband AND love his cooking. And you might love the cooking at a food at a local restaurant and not even know (or care to know) the chef. That's more what I hear from men, loving the food (sex) while, at the same time, having little/no interest in "knowing the chef".

That's a good explanation I guess.

I have realized that in having an affair, and not being a good compartmentalizer created a lot of justifying and that came at the price of minimizing the strengths of my marriage and maximizing the deficits. I never demonized my husband, nor did I complain about him to anyone. Mine was more about the relationship, compatibility, etc. I was never delusional enough to think my husband wasn't a good person, or getting into his personal qualities. Not that it makes it better, I am just expressing how it was. It's still very, very, crazy to think about. It's honestly hard for me to imagine anyone I would be more compatible with than him. I truly mean that. We share a sensibility and rhythm, I could go deep with that. I can not believe how misguided I had become with all of it, I truly can't.

It seems to me that the Why, the How, the Fog, and Compartmentalization (aka did you think about me?) are all essentially the same piece of the cheating puzzle: there is no answer--zero--that will make a BS feel better. That's what a BS wants, but it is never going to happen. No matter what the WS says on these subjects. It doesn't mean the WS is lying, it means that a BS can never understand the dysfunctional coping and thinking of a WS. Because it's dysfunctional. Because the WS is broken.

You had to do some major mental gymnastics to push me away.

That's why the line, "I didn't think of you at all," is so infuriating. It is so obviously a lie. I don't believe for one second that my H still loved me the entire time he was cheating. He did not care about or his children at that time. He only cared about himself. Tell me the truth, dammit! Of course, they probably don't know the truth since they are so good at even lying to themselves.

There is so much wisdom here. I think it boils down to any reason a WS gives for anything involving the affair is just an ornament on a Christmas tree. As a BS, I wanted every single ornament to try and understand why he would do this, and to try and justify the pain I was feeling. Maybe if one of those ornaments made sense to me, I could rationalize all the pain I'm feeling and make sense of something that makes zero sense.

Personally, I had to get to a place where I was at peace with the ornaments I had. I will never understand this. What I have is enough for me. I will never say to myself "Now I get it!" I'm not damaged like my WS, and I wasn't there for every event and justification during the affair. BUT. What I need, is for my WS to understand himself so that he is safe and heals his broken pieces.

I think this is why remorse is so important for the BS too. There's no excuse or reason a BS can give that really gives them any peace. But for a WS to feel the pain the BS is in, to truly sit in it and realize how much damage they have caused, that gives a BS a little comfort.

I believe they were thinking of us. They were thinking of the kids. But they didn't care about us. There was zero respect for anything external; it was all about the WS and their feels. I'm assuming when the WS would think about their life outside of the affair, they would push those feelings away because it would shine a light on the affair. So, when they did think of what matters to them, there wasn't much depth because they didn't want to face the consequences.

Funny thing, I'm the one who's always thought of myself that way (selfish), and she's the one who actually is. Hilarious, right?

Funny, but not so funny. My sitch is similar. My H thought I was selfish. He was the self-sacrificing giver. Problem was he was giving things I didn't ask for and didn't want. My H told himself I wouldn't care. I didn't love him anymore. Blah, blah, blah. You can't get much more selfish than that, assuming you know how another person feels without asking.

ETA: Maybe the reason they are so selfish, self-centered, egocentric is because they are broken or damaged.

My sitch was a bit different than most, I think. We were living apart for a year because of my H's work at the time he cheated. He cheated during the last 3 months of that year. I firmly believe he would not have cheated if we had been living together. He just doesn't have the guts or the smarts to pull it off. He couldn't even pull it off while we were apart. I knew within days of us being back together. Dumbass left evidence everywhere.

You probably won't believe this, but my H did not cheat for sex. In those 3 months when he could have had sex with the MOW almost every day, they had sex twice, once a BJ and once intercourse. (And, yes, I have confirmation of that. I am not naive or sticking my head in the sand.) That sex occurred in the last 2 or 3 weeks before he was coming home. It was her push because she realized it was now or never. It probably would've happened more if they had more time, but that's not what my H was after. He was not looking to cheat because he had the freedom to do so. He got sucked in by the ego kibbles.

They did fit the stereotypes in that she painted her H in the worst possible way, abusive, mentally unstable drug addict, while my H talked about me in terms of loving me and his family and just wanting to figure out how to fix things. She was being such a good friend trying to help him do that, encouraging him to talk to me, etc. I don't know if I understand the idea of talking about me as an entity rather than a person.

WRT the eating out analogy, I see that very differently. I don't do most of the cooking, my H does. When I go out to eat, it's for convenience most of the time. I am absolutely comparing it to my H's cooking every time. Sometimes it's better, sometimes it's worse. Usually, I prefer my H's healthier cooking, unless it's dessert. I do NOT like his healthy "desserts".

I am constantly thinking of others. If I stop at a convenience to grab myself a soda, I get one for everyone. My H does not. I have read that, to some extent, that's a difference between men and women when women become mothers. It's biological.

I'm not emotionally stuck on thinking my H didn't love me during his A. I see that as a fact. There are times throughout our M when I have not felt love toward my H. It's not his feelings, or lack thereof, that bother me. It's the actions he took because of those feelings that bother me.

I really don't care if he doesn't love me now. Honestly, it would make things a lot easier. I asked him if he would consider a marriage of convenience. Basically, we'd stay married, continue to love together and co-parent the children, but there wouldn't be the need for a deep emotional connection anymore. He didn't like that one bit. Ha!

[This message edited by cocoplus5nuts at 9:30 AM, February 28th (Friday)]

Funny, but not so funny. My sitch is similar. My H thought I was selfish. He was the self-sacrificing giver. Problem was he was giving things I didn't ask for and didn't want.

Same in my situation. My H would have told you he was selfish and I was the most selfless person he'd ever met. But, overgiving is toxic. I think generally, we see cheating parties here as either extreme givers or extreme takers. To me, its symptoms of the same problem - self-worth issues. I gave too much because I felt I wasn't worthy of love without doing so. I gave all sorts of things my H didn't want. Eventually he didn't really even show appreciation either. My resentments came from believing I was giving under his expectations and then not appreciating it. No, that's not what happened at all. I gave stuff he didn't want and I should not have expected him to appreciate them.

For extreme takers, they are constantly trying to fill themselves up so they vaccumn everyone elses energy, resources, etc.

I don't know if I understand the idea of talking about me as an entity rather than a person.

I guess what I mean is I can talk about something and really not think about that thing without any feeling or emotion or any greater thought put to it. The problem is my husband is not a thing, he is a person. And, any time I talked about him pre- Affair or when I talk about him today, I feel the fondness I feel about him behind it. When I had the affair, it was as if I was talking about an object. Relaying something but having no feeling or depth behind it because I had numbed my feelings to be able to do it. That's what I mean about dehumanizing someone, you are making them an "it". I don't know if that helps. The only example I can give, is a bad one but maybe it will help illustrate. Someone who has been traumatized but talks about the event with no feeling behind it.

I am constantly thinking of others. If I stop at a convenience to grab myself a soda, I get one for everyone. My H does not. I have read that, to some extent, that's a difference between men and women when women become mothers. It's biological.

When I read this I thought maybe the same thing that it was more of a gender issue. My h does this same thing that your H does. Getting drinks for others, or bringing snacks to them because you got one for yourself? That's me, my H doesn't think like that. One small thing, but it drives me crazy. We have two towels that hang up in our walk in shower. Every few days I take them down to wash and most of the time I get new ones out and hang them up. But, sometimes I forget because I am doing other cleaning in there or I have my hands full trying to wrangle laundry. H showers first in the morning. He sees no towels. He gets out one towel for him. I get in the shower and shoot, there is only his towel in there. Why? Why?? If he had cheated on me and acted selfishly in other ways, I could see this single little thing being big proof that he didn't love me. Anyway, when I read that I was all over it because I could give you 100 examples of those sorts of things.

[This message edited by hikingout at 9:50 AM, February 28th (Friday)]

Someone who has been traumatized but talks about the event with no feeling behind it.

That's dissociation. It stems from trauma. I don't think my H went so far as to dissociate. That's my thing.

I do get what you mean, though, about not having those feelings of attachment. I think that's absolutely true. That is exactly why I don't think my H loved me when he was cheating, or for quite a while leading up to that point. He will never admit it, if he's even aware. I, honestly, don't think he thinks about it. It just is. He married me, so he loves me. He can't explain why or what that means.

He sees no towels. He gets out one towel for him.

Haha! I totally get this. My H does stuff like that all the time. The one that always gets me is dessert. I love dessert. I have always been like that. I prefer sweet over savory every time. My H has know me for over 20 years. He should know this buy now. I have told him and nauseam to get dessert. He goes to the grocery store almost every day. Unless I remind him each day, he won't get dessert. He doesn't care about it, so he doesn't think about.

I absolutely feel unloved because of that. If he really loved me, he would know what is important to me and take it into account every time. That's a ridiculous train of thought, but that's where I go with it.

I think everyone probably does that to a certain extent, cue the 5 Love Languages. The difference between me and my H was that I knew that train of thought wasn't logical and I could let it go (most of the time). If I had to, I could consciously make myself think I of ways he does show love for me. He let all those little things pile up on him until it became a mountain of examples of how I didn't love him.

That was all pre-A. Post A, it's much harder to not see those little things of proof that he doesn't love me. All the things he does to show love are now fake, lies in my mind.

This is interesting cocoplus...

I just can't believe that my H didn't think about me at all. I have asked him what he was thinking through every step of their sexual encounters. He says he wasn't thinking about anything except the physical pleasure. I think he thought about me, but suppressed those thoughts. I think it was a conscious effort on his part.

I really believe that my WH didn't think about me at all. Maybe in the very beginning, afterwards (not during his encounters with her) he may have thought of me. But he admitted that sometimes I would call (strategically I might add - I knew his schedule and knew when he would and would not be available so I would call at times when he would be just to see if he would answer) and it would "break the mood" and "force him to think about me and he hated me at the time for interrupting his time with her" much like I was and alarm clock interrupting his sleep. When he came home, there was no worry about talking to her as unless she physically showed up, which she would have never done when I was home, he just shut that out. He actually admitted that he couldn't handle thinking about me and her at the same time because he would feel so bad...so he just shut it out. Granted he was beaten as a child and often told to stay out of the way of his parents so I think he managed to shut out a lot of things throughout his life.

Someone who has been traumatized but talks about the event with no feeling behind it.

That's dissociation. It stems from trauma. I don't think my H went so far as to dissociate. That's my thing.

My WH has dissociative disorders (both depersonalization and derealization) that likely stem from his childhood - he won't discuss his childhood much so that is only a guess. The fact is that he is probably a master compartmentalizer because it's what his brain does to deal with trauma/negativity (and sometimes it just does it anyway when not faced with anything in the moment). Compartmentalization for people with these disorders is commonplace...sadly for my WH, this WAS happening long before we even met - I was aware of these issues for ages, I just had no idea how scary (and perfectly suited for deceitful behavior) they really were.

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 12:09 PM, February 28th (Friday)]