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For some it's not so fancy as "compartmentalizing". It's hard to accept it, but there are people who can do fucked up things to you and they haven't had to do mental gymnastics to quell their natural empathy. They just wanted to have sex with other people and felt entitled to have sex with other people and you didn't exist enough as a person to even matter, so there was no need to compartmentalize. Life is a game to people like that. It's all balancing these extensions of themselves in a juggling act to keep doing what it was they wanted to do. They want a home life with a wife/husband AND they want to fuck other people. Compartmentalizing doesn't need to even be in the picture. They know what they're doing and they feel okay about it because they are the only person in the scenario who actually matters.

^^^ Exactly my situation Devastated Dee

If anything I tried to compartmentalize what he did so that I could continue on in our fucked up M

That's dissociation. It stems from trauma. I don't think my H went so far as to dissociate. That's my thing.

Yep, I have read a lot about trauma to understand my husband, that's why I said it was a really bad example.

I do get what you mean, though, about not having those feelings of attachment. I think that's absolutely true. That is exactly why I don't think my H loved me when he was cheating, or for quite a while leading up to that point. He will never admit it, if he's even aware. I, honestly, don't think he thinks about it. It just is. He married me, so he loves me. He can't explain why or what that means.

I agree with you here. I do not think that people love their spouse while they are cheating. So, I am 100% in agreement.

You wrote something earlier, and I think it was on this thread. I identify with it because to be married a long time I think that there are times that people fall in and out of love. (That should not result in cheating) But, I felt what you were saying was true. Being married for decades there is an ebb and a flow and really it's about commitment in those in between times.

So, I don't think it doesn't mean I didn't love him before. I truly believe I did. I do believe I wasn't connected to him for along time before the affair (not an excuse just fact). I do believe I love him now, and I believe I understand love at a greater level than I did before. But, I did not love him at the time of my affair, not in a way anyone should anyway.

For some it's not so fancy as "compartmentalizing". It's hard to accept it, but there are people who can do fucked up things to you and they haven't had to do mental gymnastics to quell their natural empathy. They just wanted to have sex with other people and felt entitled to have sex with other people and you didn't exist enough as a person to even matter, so there was no need to compartmentalize.

I know you are right, for some people this is true. And, especially when you combine the fact your husband was a drug addict that just punctuates that it probably was that way in your situation. I am sorry, Dee...for him because I know you rock. I can tell ;-)

I absolutely feel unloved because of that. If he really loved me, he would know what is important to me and take it into account every time. That's a ridiculous train of thought, but that's where I go with it.

Sorry, I meant to comment on this. Look, my husband never cheated on me but my mind goes there every so often. And, this next thought is wayward, I already know that...but at times after the infidelity I would think it just meant that he is never going to love me again. But, then I remember it's always been that way. Again, not at all the same as you but I can see why the little things equate to big things, that's how marriage is on the whole. Little things add up, and what column they can go into can be unintentional. But, it's sort of the point, a good marriage takes someone being intentional and that bar has to be raised from the WS side after DDAY.

a good marriage takes someone being intentional

This is very true. My H was very intentional in the beginning. I can tell you when that changed. It was after a specific deployment. He came home different. He was completely disconnected from everything and everyone.

So, he did intentional things for me before. Thos types of intentional things are important to him, his love language. He doesn't do those things for me anymore. The logical conclusion is that he doesn't love me anymore.

TISL, I don't think my H thought about me the entire time, but I don't believe that he didn't think of me at all.

Here's the scenario. He invites her over for dinner. He is living in a one room apartment. It has a tiny half kitchen kind of thing, a table with 2 chairs, a bed, and a bathroom. That's it. They eat, drink wine, and talk.

When they are done eating, they move over to sit on the bed because there's nowhere else to sit. (Yeah, right. ). They talk a little more and she starts to kiss him. I don't believe that he didn't think of me at all during that time. What I think is most likely is that he thought of me the moment she started kissing him. He did whatever he had to do to push me out of his mind so he could enjoy what was happening.

He says he thought of me right after. He went in the bathroom to clean up. She got dressed and left. The fact that he thought of me right after leads me to believe that he did think of me during. He was not able to completely compartmentalize the two. Like I said in my 1st post, he doesn't claim compartmentalization, per se. He just says he didn't think about me.

But for a WS to feel the pain the BS is in, to truly sit in it and realize how much damage they have caused, that gives a BS a little comfort.

That's important. Even more important, IMO, is for the WS to realize how effed up s/he/they is(!)/are and to commit to resolving his/her/their own issues.

(Sorry - I'm trying to figure out how to use the old pronouns in the new ways desired by some people.)

*****

I've thought compartmentalization is something like dissociation-lite.

In any case, the human brain can hold multiple contradictory beliefs at the same time. I believe compartmentalizing WSes do ignore their families with one part of their brain while they know very well they have to make sure they may need a lie ready for the next time they see their BSes.

Somehow that makes sense to me.

Compartmentalizing is also a survival mechanism.

For any of you that are married to a first responder, nurse, Dr, etc you know that they have to be able to comparmentalize what they deal with and do, otherwise they would be dealing with constant grief, anger, emotional pain.

The shit they see/do/deal with daily has to be boxed up and put away to be able to function in a normal family situation as well. I was this many years old when I realized I had PTSD not just from my parental abuse, my H's A, but all the shit I dealt with in all the years I was an ICU/Trauma nurse. For many of us, Cops, Soldiers, Paramedics, you just deal with the trauma of others, do the best you can and never talk about it again. That isn't healthy either, and the more I understand it, the more I realize it probably has something to do with my health and autoimmune disease.

My point being there are some of us that are definitely trained to do this and more adept at it, and it becomes a muscle memory type thing where it just happens without conscious thought. It also explains a tiny part of the why these professions are some of the worst for A's.

There is some great wisdom here and thank you. I am heading into 3 years for dd1 trauma lies and am finding it tough. This is what my WH did - I will never get it as I don't work this way. He admits he compartmentalised us to justify the lies and deceit. What was a revelation the other week that gave me some comfort is that he stated that he is always thinking about what he has done and how it has hurt us - he is reminded of being a hypocrite as a teacher, when he watches movies with any form of cheating or exploiting vulnerable women and he has majorily contributed to the mental health issues of all 3 of his daughters. I never really knew all this as I just thought he still put it in a box to forget when he was at work or doing daily stuff, while I think about it daily. This actually has really helped me. Knowing that he is reminded of his shitty choices ALL THE TIME and that it gives him so much pain and remorse.

Conflict avoidants are excellent compartmentalizers. Due to FOO (usually) they learn to put their anger and hurt in a compartment and switch the channel since they are often powerless as children to actually articulate that anger. Being out of practice and uncomfortable with their own anger then, they enter marriage and keep all anger in until it becomes a festering resentment. Unaware that their compartmentalization and avoidance is their own issue and not their spouse's fault, they justify cheating as a way to get back their power over this anger they feel. It's very passive aggressive. Most compartmentalizers can be very passive aggressive.

SPOT FUCKING ON!!!!!!

You have just described my husband as if you had been studying his brain!

My husband was the champion of compartmentalizing. He was a pro. He could take things in and out of their boxes and return them without thinking about what he was doing and was living two separate lives at the same time.

I think it's difficult to find a one-size-fits-all explanation of how compartmentalization works. I never had a festering resentment for my BS; I never hated him, never denigrated him to OM, never planned for my A to be an exit A. I saw my BS as nothing like my father, and I was super, super grateful that he was not.

My A was rooted in insecurity far more than in resentment. I feared that I wasn't "enough" to deserve real commitment (BS was my BF at the time, and he had already broken up with me once and then suggested we keep the option of seeing other people open). I settled for a secondary role with OM because I didn't feel I was worth more. Then when OM caught feelings due to hormones and NRE, that feeling of being treated like the most important thing in the world was a very enticing drug. Instead of doing the healthy work to be enough for myself, I used pieces of another broken person to make me feel whole.

For me, compartmentalization was as absolute a denial of reality as I could possibly manage. It wasn't something I did to prevent cognitive dissonance; I did it to enable cognitive dissonance. Living in two independent worlds was the only way I could avoid thinking about the eventual consequences of my actions. I wasn't always able to do it, but when my conscience started feeling pointy, compartmentalization helped me shut it down.

Once the A ended, the compartmentalization weakened, and that's when I realized I had to confess. Without that dual world mindset, there was nowhere to hide from myself. So I admitted to one instance of sex, and then I faced the full level of my H's grief, and that self preservation instinct kicked right back in. I backtracked and minimized, and I got my head into that same dissonant mode I've described elsewhere: telling myself that the stuff I was hiding was small potatoes, and at the same time guarding those potatoes like they were a vial of coronavirus. The irony is that I really prided myself on being a logical person, and seeing cognitive dissonance in others just drove me crazy.

I know there are some people who will never believe that compartmentalization is real, and if you're one of them, I'm not under the impression that I'll convince you. I'm sure there are plenty of cheaters who just didn't give a fuck about their BS at all and are unwilling to admit it. But for anyone who is in doubt about whether a WS can really split their perception of reality, I can tell you that it was very, very real to me.

[This message edited by BraveSirRobin at 4:30 PM, February 28th (Friday)]

for anyone who is in doubt about whether a WS can really split their perception of reality, I can tell you that it was very, very real to me.

I don't deny that it's real. I totally get that my H does that when he's in a war zone. That's life or death. He has 5o focus or people, including himself, could die.

I just can't wrap my brain around my H doing that with his A. I don't understand how you tell your committed partner you love her, and then immediately go have sex with someone else and tell that person you love her.

How do you eat dinner with your family, have conversations with your spouse and children, then get up from the table saying you have to go get milk, and drive off to get a BJ in a parking lot and say you compartmentalized that? I don't expect you to answer that question. I don't think there's any explanation that would make it make sense to me.

Compartmentalization takes some effort. That means you must have been thinking of your BP at some point along the way.

I know you are right, for some people this is true. And, especially when you combine the fact your husband was a drug addict that just punctuates that it probably was that way in your situation. I am sorry, Dee...for him because I know you rock. I can tell ;-)

Thank you for that.

I just can't wrap my brain around my H doing that with his A. I don't understand how you tell your committed partner you love her, and then immediately go have sex with someone else and tell that person you love her.

I agree. But I have to say, watching people do this (several over many years, watching them step into a fake, flirty self, and then switch back when their spouse shows up), I feel strongly that they are:

Personality disordered--some just don't have a "real" self.

Highly narcissistic--switching into ego kibble self and back was like watching them get high and then go back to their real lives, a switch based on a very broken, fake need for that false high.

Strong deniers--these people are the ones that learned to switch channels in childhood. They flip the channel to get that ego fix, not because they are fake selves but because they can block out pain and discomfort like nobody's business! They are not narcissists, just very able to disconnect from reality by denying it and changing the channel. It's ok if you say it's ok! These people have strong FOO crap that taught them to tuck away the unpleasant truths or feelings and cling to a little positive.

All three of these types--friends and acquaintances and people I know well--are messed up! Being able to do this is maybe common and maybe a survival tactic, but it shows a necessary "survival skill" morphed into a toxic coping mechanism for negative feelings, issues unrelated to the M or BS, of course. The people I've seen switching gears like this, popping in and out of their mental compartments, are avoiding real feelings and real turmoil inside, bandaging their wounds with some lame attention or compliments while sabotaging their real lives and goals. It's toxic behavior.

It actually creeps me out when I see it because I know their whole self and whole feelings are not present.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 9:42 PM, February 28th (Friday)]

I haven't read all the responses as I am tied up elsewhere, but I wanted to share a couple of thoughts about this from my own experience.

Xhole is a retired, career first responder. Law, fire, and EMS. He became a master compartmentalizer as a defense mechanism from the horrific things he saw on the job. It is very much a real thing. From there, very easy leap to compartmentalize his secret double life for decades. Was that his excuse for the cheating. No. That just provided part of the mechanism that explained *how* he did it so successfully.

The other part that contributed is his self-professed lack of conscience. Compartmentalize + lack of conscience = no problem having a double life.

Lastly, this usually brings up the question of did he love me during the cheating? Yes, he did. But what many fail to take into consideration here is what is the WS's definition of love? If I use *my* definition, no he did not. If I look at it from *his* definition, he most certainly did. So when he claimed he always loved me, he's telling the truth because it is through the lense of his definition. What I came to realize is that our definitions of "love" are not even close to being on the same page. Tough lesson to learn, but understanding that allowed me to understand a lot of what he both said and did.

Add in a heaping dose of compartmentalizing to keep the life boxes separate in his mind, sprinkle with lack of conscience, and here we are.

This all explains (to me) the *how*. The *why* is not nearly so complex. He told me it was because he thought I would be one of those wives that would look the other way. More simply put, he wanted to.

I think I believe in compartmentalization. For example my husband professionally is very practiced at it, he is an ICU doctor with people dying in his hands every day. How does he come home and not talk about it or feel badly about it? He compartmentalizes?

So with this skill and years of practice it’s very easy for him to NOT think about the AP or me depending on his situation. Sad.

[This message edited by ann1960 at 11:29 PM, February 28th (Friday)]

OwningItNow, Some of your comments in this thread have been super helpful, especially regarding conflict avoidant personalities. Thank you!

I find the whole dynamic of being able to successfully silo ones thoughts fascinating, I think in part because it is so alien to my own thinking process. And in some ways I would characterize it as lying to oneself, which by default must impact self-worth and self-love, which in turn could part explain a compartmentalizers thirst for external validation.

So, question for you! If a person is dating someone who is a compartmentalizer, should they run and not look back? Or do you think that strong morals and boundaries can co-exist within someone who silos their thinking in this way?

I just can't wrap my brain around my H doing that with his A. I don't understand how you tell your committed partner you love her, and then immediately go have sex with someone else and tell that person you love her.

Think of it this way. You can love more than one child, why can’t a WS love more than one person?

it shows a necessary "survival skill" morphed into a toxic coping mechanism for negative feelings

Yes! My H learned as a child to suppress his "negative" feelings in order to emotionally survive.

I don't think my H has a definition of love. I've asked him several times what love means to him, what he loves about me, why he loves me. He struggles to find the answers. I think that's because he's searching for what he thinks I want to hear. He doesn't really know for himself.

I've said this many times. I don't think my H ever loved me because he never really saw me. He saw an image if what he thought I should be. If he had really seen and known me, he would've easily realized that I was never going to be what he thought I should be.

Anne, I know people have the capacity to love more than one person. We also have the capacity to know when that's healthy or not, helpful or hurtful. I love all my kids equally all the time. I don't have to forget about one in order to love the other. I can love my H and my friends.

I can love my H and be attracted to or infatuated with another man. I can even lust after an OM. (I almost lost it when I read Johnny Depp might be in my town! Haha!) But, I know that's not real love and it could be hurtful to my H if I act on it.

I don't have the capacity to tell my H I love him as I'm walking out the door to go fuck another man. I don't have the capacity to fuck said OM and then sleep next to my H in the same bed. The idea of it makes me physically ill. That's one of the major reasons I don't cheat. If I went out and had sex with an OM, I probably wouldn't come home. I would not be able to face my family.

Thankfully, I didn't have to deal with that. We weren't living together at the time that my H cheated, so he never walked out the door, leaving me alone with the kids, to be with his AP. He did, however, have text conversations with both of us at the same time. Apparently, there were many times when we would be texting and the MOW would text him and he would ghost me. I thought he fell asleep, which he does a lot.

I don't see how he could claim compartmentalization then. Seems to me that was a conscious and deliberate decision to choose her over me. I think, more likely, he told himself he wasn't doing anything wrong because she was just a friend. I also don't see how he could reasonably convince himself that I didn't care. I was texting him for hours almost every night. We were getting along well. I would periodically pack up the kids and drive to visit him. I certainly wouldn't spend my time and energy doing that if I didn't care.

I just can't wrap my brain around my H doing that with his A. I don't understand how you tell your committed partner you love her, and then immediately go have sex with someone else and tell that person you love her.

Most likely answer, "He said "I love you" to get in her panties", it was a line, not a "feeling". Not always the right answer, but, affair or not, a pretty standard playbook since, well.. As long as I've been alive, that's for sure, and I suspect long before that. "Love" has little/nothing to do with the vast majority of affairs (actually, all, except my W's) that I know of IRL. It's "say what you need to say to keep them coming around for sex", and that thing is almost always/often "I love you".

Think of it this way. You can love more than one child, why can’t a WS love more than one person?

This is a good way to look at it too. Another is "he loved what she did for him" (again, most likely answer, "blowjobs").

I've used this analogy before because I've heard men refer to it this way and I extended it. Men often refer to AP's as "take out", as in "a take out meal". At the time, I thought; well, that kind of makes sense, it's convenient, fills you up, and gets you through to the next meal. Not great food, but hey, when your hungry, right? Now, this is NOT to excuse this behavior, not at all, but it's how I thought about it at the time. Anyway, this lovely analogy can be extended though, I love my wife's cooking and ALSO love the food at my local brewery. Love them equally? Not even close, if the brewery closed, I'd think "darn it", if my wife stopped cooking, I'd probably go on hunger strike and die. I love her food a LOT more than any take out, both because I like the taste better, but also, she cares about me, she's making that food for me, where the brewery is making it for anyone with 20 bucks. But I'd still tell you, if you asked me, "How's the food at that joint", "I love it" would be my answer.

Love is an extremely slippery and inaccurate term. It can mean anything from "loving a song" (if you never heard it again, you probably wouldn't even notice) to "loving a person" so much so that you'd literally jump in front of a bullet for them because the thought of being without them is worse than death. But both things there are defined by the word "love". That's why I never even really asked my wife about "loving him", IDGAF to be honest, she "loves" her new shoes that I got her for Christmas too. I care about what she DID, not what she claims (or does not claim) to have felt.

Love (as I think most of us would define it) is just not, in the vast majority of cases, even tangentially related to most affairs. Now, of course, people "think it is", but that's not what affairs are "for". They suck at providing anything that resembles what most of us would consider "love', and excel at providing what most of us would consider "good sex". We argue this point all the time, but, if you look at the results of many affairs, what actually happened? Did Jim and Jane fall in love and wind up in this whirlwind/Shakespearean romance? Sure, it happens, but it's not common (one person might THINK they are in that romance, of course). What's real common, however, in fact, so common that we all say "if they were alone, they had sex", is that Jane gave Jim a BJ in a car somewhere, or behind a dumpster while people took video. If anyone enters into an affair for "love", they are looking in the wrong place. Affairs excel at exactly one thing, providing sex with someone new while not ending your marriage. Full stop, that's the one tangible thing they are "good at". If that's not what you're after, you are looking in the wrong place (by having an A).