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Compartmentalization is just a handy tool that we've all got in our toolbox. It can be used for benign or malignant purposes. I wouldn't let someone point to it as an excuse, it's more of a mode of thought (and specifically, a coping mechanism). There isn't a cheater, or even just a general deceiver, on this planet who can manage secrecy without some heavy duty compartmentalization.

Compartmentalization is a how. How did you make that work?

This.

WHY they cheated is a different question entirely.

Compartmentalization is just a handy tool that we've all got in our toolbox. It can be used for benign or malignant purposes. I wouldn't let someone point to it as an excuse, it's more of a mode of thought (and specifically, a coping mechanism). There isn't a cheater, or even just a general deceiver, on this planet who can manage secrecy without some heavy duty compartmentalization.

Better said that mine.. I agree. It's a tool. It let's us function in our day to day world, where we wear many different faces to different people. And I do think that we all do it to some extent, some more than others. But it's just a tool, neither good or bad until put to some purpose. Someone going off, see the atrocities of war, putting them in a box and living a good full life afterwards, well, that's good. Someone going off, f**king the AP, coming home, kissing their wife on the lips and planning their next vacation together, not so good. And then there's the "I don't know" area, enjoying sex with someone without having real "feelings" for them, great if you want to be a swinger, or have lots of sexual experiences, not so great if you use that same technique to cheat on your husband/wife.

I get what you're saying, but I think that for a long time my WH was a master compartmentalizer (and still is in some ways). After d-day 1 his A existed about 99% of the time at work and no where else (prior to dday1 I was living temporarily out of state so they did meet up outside of work but for the 2 years following I was back and they were pretty much work only). He had his phone set up to block not only her but any number that was not programmed in his phone, and he would turn on that "block" when he drove out of the parking lot of work and would unblock it when he drove back in. we went on vacation for 3 weeks - too bad for AP - he wasn't talking to her for that whole time. She emailed him a few times, to which he either didn't respond or said "talk to you when I'm back."

Dday1 he was caught due to a funky thing on his credit card (that he could have lied away but admitted it). Dday2 was a year later, and he was talking to her on his phone outside of work, but this didn't occur much, and as I recorded the call I can confirm she was pressuring him to stop cutting her off outside of work. As he put it, she would have talked to him all the time if he had allowed it. Instead, I think he liked the control and the anticipation - he didn't want to talk to her all the time. He wanted to keep her in the box known as work - I was free to roam in the other box - his non-work life. Dday-3 was the same but it was even more compartmentalized - he would refuse to talk to her at work sometimes (as the phone and the phone records showed - and as was confirmed by the messages I did read).

He claims he would leave work and that would be over, he would come home without the worry of talking to her or having to hide his phone or be concerned I was going to catch him on some app. He didn't use them - with exception to whatsapp, which was about the last 2 weeks before d-day 3, when he realized (amazingly after 2 years he just realized it then) that because AP was using burner phone apps and other methods of communication, their communications were visible on the phone bill. So his process was to delete all conversations, (later delete whatapp), and turn on the number blocker, every single day he left work, and then undo the blocking, reinstall the apps, and start all over again the next day. He did this for years.

So, it's true that compartmentalization is bullshit for some people, for my WH, it was a masterclass in crazy town - I mean, who can really truly compartmentalize like that??? In all honesty, I think someone who can actually pull that shit off is more mentally unwell than the garden variety "affair fog" person - to actually be able to shut out aspects of your life for meaningful amounts of time, usually daily, is really scary.

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 12:51 PM, February 26th (Wednesday)]

Everyone compartmentalizes....some more than others and some are much better at it than others. My WH is a master compartmentalizer. He is also an retired police officer and they pretty much need to be

It is something that can be done consciously but is usually unconscious.

It is a coping mechanism but it doesn't have to be about compartmentalizing only bad. AN example. You are working, you have 10 things to get done on your desk that have deadlines and its stressing you out a bit but you also have a customer that needs 100% of your attention. While you are with you customer, you put away the thoughts about the other work that needs done and concentrate only on the customer. When the customer is done, you can then think about the work on your desk. It can be as easy as that, or as horrid as choosing to put your family into a box in your brain so you don't feel the guilt while you are having sex with your side piece.

I believe men are better at this than women, or at least thats how my IC explained it. In women's brains, everything is connected. In mens brains, not everything is connected things have their boxes that things fit in. AT least that is how she explained it to me

This is such an interesting topic... And I do question how much compartmentalizing there is with so much thought going in to deleting/reinstalling apps, deleting messages, etc. But that's maybe another line of thought...

But ironically - after dday1 I kind of wished I was better at compartmentalizing shit. It would have been such a relief to be able to just put the affair in the affair box and shut the lid on it and go into the happysparklykitten box for awhile. I mean, in some ways, I did unintentionally get better at it cus I HAD to. I had shit I had to get done at work/home/life etc and just had to power the fuck through it and get 'er done.

But let me tell you, at NO point in powering through that stuff was the A not in my head. Along with all the other shit around it - hypervigilance, paranoia, worry, stress, what's-going-to-happen-next shit, the did-I-remember-to-do-[thing]-shit, and all the normal crap that's in my head on a day-to-day. Man, it would be nice some days to be able to have little neat boxes for all that.

This.

WHY they cheated is a different question entirely.

Exactly. I agree with HO and emergent. Compartmentalization offers an explanation of how the WS can keep the guilt at bay. It is not that the WS cannot think about the BS while talking to the AP or physically with the AP. It is about how the WS can keep from thinking about the effects of the BS finding out that the WS is talking to the AP.

The first step is to not acknowledge that the AP is the AP; he/she is "just a friend." It is not an affair; it is a friendship. So if the WS is talking to a "friend," WS doesn't have to feel guilty about it. None of this has anything to do with the "why".

I've read some opinions in this thread that I agree with.

I've read some opinions in this thread that I do not agree with.

As a first step to having a conversation about something, you have to define the something. Like locusts, in some areas they're cicadas and in some areas they're grasshoppers, but the term 'locust' is used in both places, just for different things.

Thus, I present the wikipedia definition of compartmentalization:

Compartmentalization (psychology)

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Compartmentalization is a subconscious psychological defense mechanism used to avoid cognitive dissonance, or the mental discomfort and anxiety caused by a person's having conflicting values, cognitions, emotions, beliefs, etc. within themselves.

Compartmentalization allows these conflicting ideas to co-exist by inhibiting direct or explicit acknowledgement and interaction between separate compartmentalized self-states.

Psychoanalytic views

Psychoanalysis considers that whereas isolation separates thoughts from feeling, compartmentalization separates different (incompatible) cognitions from each other.[2] As a secondary, intellectual defense, it may be linked to rationalization.[3] It is also related to the phenomenon of neurotic typing, whereby everything must be classified into mutually exclusive and watertight categories.

Otto Kernberg has used the term "bridging interventions" for the therapist's attempts to straddle and contain contradictory and compartmentalized components of the patient's mind.

Vulnerability

Compartmentalization may lead to hidden vulnerabilities in those who use it as a major defense mechanism.

Those suffering from borderline personality disorder will often divide people into all good versus all bad, to avoid the conflicts removing the compartments would inevitably bring, using denial or indifference to protect against any indications of contradictory evidence.

Using indifference towards a better viewpoint is a normal and common example of this. It can be caused by someone having used multiple compartment ideals and having been uncomfortable with modifying them, at risk of being found incorrect. This often causes double-standards, and bias.

Social identity

Conflicting social identities may be dealt with by compartmentalizing them and dealing with each only in a context-dependent way.

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As for whether this is "real" or not, well, no, it isn't "real." A rock is "real." An idea of a rock, the mental picture invoked by the word "rock", is _not_ real. One is tangible, the other intangible. You cannot grab hold of an idea, you can grab hold of an actual rock.

So, as a concept-holder, the word 'compartmentalization' expresses a concept. An easy-to-reference "wrapper" around the idea of avoiding 'cognitive dissonance.' Do people seek to avoid cognitive dissonance? Absolutely, they do. devastedone's smoking example: She knows it is bad, but she does it anyway. That wrestling with whether to, when to, and where to smoke is an example of cognitive dissonance at play.

This may get long, but good discussions do, so I'll talk a little bit about my personal use of compartmentalization to avoid cognitive dissonance so that I could very literally survive, that is, keep on existing in horrific conditions.

I have a fairly good memory except for names and exact dates, but otherwise it is pretty good. I was sexually abused from my earliest memory, roughly age 3 or 4.

I was verbally abused from the same age, 3 or 4, being cursed at, called various pejorative names, told how worthless I was, how no one would want me. Later, how my mother pitied any woman that I eventually became involved with when an adult, etc.

I was physically abused from the same age, 3 or 4, being beaten until bloody, being forced to wear long sleeves and long pants all of the time when bruises or sores were visible, etc.

To make a too-long story shorter, if a type of abuse has a name then I probably experienced it to greater or lesser degree. We'll leave it at that. Back to the point.

I survived these things by compartmentalizing them. As children do, I normalized the behavior. "That's how all families are," I thought.

When I was at school, or the baby-sitter's, or out of the house I simply did not think of the abuse. I put it in a box and put the box on the shelf.

When I was at a relative's house I put the box of abuse on the shelf and didn't think of it.

I was groomed, as well, so when the sexual abuse was happening, or the grooming behavior happening, I didn't think of the beatings. Similarly, when the beatings were happening I wasn't thinking of the box full of sexual abuse. Those 'compartments' didn't exist.

The cognitive dissonance sprang from the fact that other people didn't seem to be acting the same way as my abuser, and other kids didn't seem to be being abused the same ways, -but- I'd normalized the behavior of my abuser so I also thought that _all_ kids were treated in roughly the same ways as myself. A does not equal B, result is cognitive dissonance and then compartmentalizing A and B to avoid the dissonance.

In another thread on this site a person who was also a CSA survivor was talking about the time that the boxes opened. They were driving and suddenly the boxes opened, the memories came flooding back, the _truth_ of years of childhood sexual abuse was suddenly in their head and it was overwhelming. Crying, they had to pull off of the road and have a sort of meltdown.

Is compartmentalization real? Yes, it is. Can I hold it in my hand? No, I cannot. Did it keep me from killing myself as a result of all of the abuse? I believe that it did. Until I was old enough to understand what was going on, both outside of my body and inside of my head, I think that the realization of everything would have resulted in me offing myself. I thought about it, I might or might not have come close to it, I can only attest to the fact that I'm still here.

Did my early forays into compartmentalization to survive make me a better partner? Absolutely, it did not. I always recognized that something was 'off' between my ideas and reality, between how I'd been taught and concepts such as Open, Authentic, Trustworthy, and Honest communication. Between surviving and vulnerable. That cognitive dissonance between what I believed vs. what I observed eventually drove me into seeking self-help and outside help and here I am today, a bit too forgiving and understanding (see my sig) and still, at almost 60 years of age, sometimes a bit moody and semi-lost.

So, just my take. I wish to share a fist-bump with others who believe that the technique of compartmentalization exists and I wish good luck to those who refuse to believe it. We will have to agree to disagree.

[This message edited by devotedman at 2:10 PM, February 26th, 2020 (Wednesday)]

Excuse me if I'm way off base here, as I don't have time to read through the thread, but I just wanted to add my two cents.

My wayward husband has always claimed that he's a great compartmentalizer. I think that's why he also thought he could be polyamorous, and why he decided it was better to keep me in the dark about anything going on with his life.

I agree that we all compartmentalize at points in our live, but in my opinion, it's just a fancy word for rug-sweeping, and we all know how well that works.

I guess it comes down to semantics. If your definition of "real" is limited to having physical attributes, then it is not real. But intangibility doesn't preclude existence. In fact, the word is used to describe things that exist but do not have physical properties. For example, intellectual property is intangible; however, possessors have rights similar to those who possess physical property.

I would argue that compartmentalization is not a simple concept because neurons in a brain are physically executing an active process, which is the act of compartmentalization. We could have a philosophical debate about the existence of concepts, but I think Descartes gave us plenty of guidance.

devotedman - what you spelled out as a textbook definition of 'compartmentalization' I see as a subconscious response to abuse. That's a survival mechanism and not something that I think a young CSA sufferer is consciously driving.

I guess what I see more in terms of compartmentalization re waywards (speaking ONLY for my own self/experience here) is a conscious decision to leave that over there when they are with their family/BS.

That is not to say that as early learned coping mechanisms for waywards there are not certain elements of subconscious stuff at work when they are in the A, but the compartmentalization definition waters get muddied for me because there are so many conscious choices made by the WS to do A B and C in a specific location or at a specific time.

But both abuse survivors and non-authentic adults have cognitive dissonance. And Compartmentalization is a response/coping mechanism to that, not an easy excuse for cheating.

Correct?

If so, then the question becomes, When and why did this coping mechanism develop?

Interesting devotedman...

I guess the part that I keep tripping over is this: someone who is abused that suffers that kind of cognitive dissonance and develops compartmentalization as a coping mechanism in response to that abuse is to my mind very different than someone who makes a choice (or many choices) to act in a manner that goes against who/how they want to be or how they view themselves. I'm not saying they still aren't experiencing some degree of dissonance, but I don't feel like it's quite the same thing.

I haven't read the whole thread, but wanted to comment.

My late WH was in the military for 20 years. Military teaches people to compartmentalize so that they can function better as soldiers.

***not all military are cheaters*** Just saying they already know how to compartmentalize.

Everyone experiences cognitive dissonance at some time. Reconciliation is cognitive dissonance. It is a process of having to accept conflicting emotions, thoughts, ideas, etc. on a daily or momentary basis. How do we accept someone back who did the unacceptable? How do we square ourselves when we give advice to others to drop their spouse like a bad habit, yet cannot seem to quit our own? Easy. We compartmentalize those feelings. Our WS goes in one box; everyone else's WS goes in another. How we believe we should act goes in one box; how we actually acted goes into another. Same behavior; different boxes.

My late WH was in the military for 20 years. Military teaches people to compartmentalize so that they can function better as soldiers.

It was never taught to me (30 years in the mil) but you pretty much have to be good at it, I agree.

I caught my wife in flagrante, which was about as traumatic as it gets. I was flying again a week later, landing on carriers. How did I do it?

Compartmentalization

I had cognitive dissonance/ abuse young. I develop compartmentalization skills to deaI.

When I got older I wanted to be a good person, a good partner.

I had been taught to lie to avoid bloody beatings. I had been taught to lie about sexual activity. I had been taught that my personal value was zero.

My bucket had holes in it.

Would I have been a safe partner?

EllieKMAS, do you see when i'm going with this?

I caught my wife in flagrante, which was about as traumatic as it gets. I was flying again a week later, landing on carriers. How did I do it?

Compartmentalization

Exactly. Hate it all you want, it's just the reality. While mine was not caught in the act (I'm sorry man), my situation was similar. D-Day, and a few days later, standing on stage in front of 100s of people giving a "let's go get'em!" speech about our competition and our new products. One of my parents died, 12 hours later, back and work talking about the latest plans for our new solutions. It's just a requirement of the world I live/work in, you don't bring anything personal to work, ever, for any reason. They aren't paying me for that, they are paying me to deliver a speech and be where they need me at the time they need me there. I am a utility to them, if that utility ceases to exist, I will be quickly replaced by someone who does can offer it. Sad, yes. True? Undeniably, at least for my work life.

devoted I do see where you're going. I do. But you didn't cheat. Somewhere along the way, cognitive dissonance and compartmentalization and all, you made a choice to act in way A instead of way B.

I am absolutely not trying to argue with you because I DO see your point and I understand it. I am simply saying that to me (and only speaking for my own personal thought and philosophy here), that element of choice in there makes the infidelity compartmentalization a different type than the type displayed by an abuse survivor. Also not saying there can't be overlap on those two, but one is done TO a person and the other is one a person at some point chooses to do on some level.

If one asks, 'How did you cheat?' or ' How did you do this?', that's a process question to me, and the answer 'compartmentalization' is valid for lots of WSes.

I think it's very useful to distinguish between a term offered as an excuse and a term used to explain.

Someone giving an excuse isn't healing and probably isn't a great candidate for R. Someone who gives an explanation when asked may very well be healing.

DevotedMan,

I'm so sorry you came to know compartmentalization so intimately. No organism should experience what you did.

I hope the understanding of the practice has helped you heal. I know your post has helped people understand.