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If she is not encouraging you to monitor her cloud, amongst other things, then she is nowhere near ready to consider R with, so please don’t offer that any time soon.

I am pretty sure she loves me she just can't do the right thing

I honestly believe she loves me

Maybe define 'love' for yourself.

It's hard when you're in the wake of DDay to remember: this is not what love looks like.

As of Friday she was in contact with AP in a "non-work way." That's an affair.

You can say she loves you if you like, but it's not much different than a "loving" father beating his kids until they bleed on a daily basis.

I guess because I love her

It really is ok to love her. We all understand that you love her and that's not going to go away overnight. But if you want things to turn around, and if you truly want to get out of infidelity, you need to forget about that for now. It puts you in grave danger of sweeping this under the rug and ending up back here in 30 days at DDay #2 or #3. Read any thread you want here; that's what will happen if you don't take some clear steps now.

Just an aside but, she texted me a request not to tell AP, her family as it would affect her job and ability to live in the sf bay area,

I'd call this not an aside, but actually a very important detail. She's asking you this to protect *him*. She (and he) are beginning to be aware that they're on thin ice, and they're upping their lying game.

Dude, the sooner you tell the OBS, the sooner this A all falls apart for real. AP will ditch your wife in a hot minute and throw her completely under the bus.

Honestly if you don't, this continues indefinitely.

Here's the deal. I had told her honesty even if it hurts. That's what we agreed to I looked at her phone and saw a picture of a skype message from him. It said can you do me a favor. She replied sure. I asked her if she and him asked each other for favors, Not directly confronting her . She said no we don't ask each other for favors. I asked her a couple of times about this. She denied it each time . I finally confronted her and she said she wanted to know if I was monitoring her cloud. The next day we talked about it and she said she protecting me. So thid is where I am

When did this skype message occur? And when was the very last time you're certain they were in some kind of contact? It would be helpful to know.

Anyway, lying and "protecting" is just active A behavior.

@Marz says pay attention to her actions. She *says* she lied to you out of a beautiful sense of wifely duty to "protect" you; her *actions* (lying and hiding and tricking you), though...did you get a warm sense of feeling "protected"?

All signs point to A continuing, just a little more underground than before. Blow this thing up.

One thing that you may want to consider is to check the call logs from her cell phone provider if you are able to. It may give you some insight to how much contact and if they are still in contact.

Do NOT fall for her request to not tell. That is very typical cheater behavior. They don't want to be exposed. Why, doesn't matter. They should've thought of that before they cheated. Consequences for actions.

Tell everyone!

ETA: I don't want to be cruel, but she doesn't love you. You need to burst that bubble. What she is doing is not loving toward you at all. She is deliberately hurting you while trying to protect herself and the OM.

[This message edited by cocoplus5nuts at 9:53 AM, April 5th (Sunday)]

The skype message was from February. Just last week he skyped her good morning to which she replied hello. She sent me a picture of it but I don't know if anything followed. She says no but seems shady. Why would someone skype good morning and then nothing. Unless he is testing the waters. Not sure

[This message edited by achilles1101 at 9:42 AM, April 6th (Monday)]

Workplace affairs are impossible to monitor. Company email, chat and phones you have zero knowledge of or control over.

If they have contact it’s ongoing.

The only one that can keep you in limbo is yourself.

I am starting to see everything people are saying. It was hard at first because I didn't want to believe it, When I said I wanted my life back, I think it was a wake up call for her. I told her we need to talk about whether we want to try and make this work and what would be needed from her or get a divorce. She was not happy so maybe I got my answer

Marz I hear you, the fog is heavy but it is starting to lift

I guess the biggest clue is she has been angry

which made her sound bitter, not the woman I married

What are you waiting to EXPOSE her with OBS and ALL family and close friends ? do it TODAY ! without warning.

NOTHING kills an A faster than full exposure (coupled with D papers being served without warning), we have literally seen this play out THOUSANDS of times here and other forums. If full exposure and D papers don't shock her back to reality, then nothing will, if so just let D run its course and get out of infidelity, if she comes around then you can stop the D process (or not!!!).

Bud, she’s happy living a double life. Its called cake eating.

Great for her. You, not so much.

Helping hide her affair which is what you’re doing just enables it further.

Affairs trump everything. Marriage, family, etc.

But they only operate in secret and in the dark.

About you’re only option is exposure unless you just want to go straight to divorce.

Affairs are addictive. If they have contact in any way it’ll continue.

Not uncommon.

It’s also common when they are in an affair some cut off intimacy with the spouse so as not to cheat on their affair partner. Sounds strange but it’s common.

Get strong and stay there. Go your own way.

I guess the biggest clue is she has been angry

Yep. Anger is a secondary emotion, usually fear. It's a defense mechanism. What is she afraid of? Probably losing her cake, her feel good kibbles. Maybe her good reputation. Obviously, her job since she mentioned exposure affecting her ability to work. This all shows that she cares about protecting herself, and probably the OM. She doesn't care about you.

There is no reason to message someone a good morning other than to keep in touch. Keeping in touch, no matter how minimal, is keeping the A alive. They need complete NC for it to be over, that means not even glancing each other at work or looking at each other's social media.

My H continued to work at the gym where he met the MOW after they were supposed to be NC. They weren't having any direct contact anymore, but would occasionally see each other there. It was a small gym that offered only group classes, which my H coached, so he couldn't avoid seeing her when she was there. I went along with him continuing to work there because he felt obligated until I realized she was deliberately showing up when she knew he'd be there, which she hadn't done before.

I told my H he had to quit. He argued at first. He had an obligation. The owners needed him. Eventually, he agreed. He told me years later that he didn't want to quit because he got a rush every time he saw the MOW even if they didn't interact at all. And, that was months after he had decided on his own to completely cut contact with her and focus on me and our M. (He had been secretly emailing her from a public computer for about a month after he sent her a NC message.)

Marz I hear you, the fog is heavy but it is starting to lift

You said this affair was a year and a half when you discovered it (that you know of, you have no proof that it wasn't more. Or if you do you haven't mentioned that).

You were the one to discover it, she did not disclose this. In a year and a half, sit back and think of the calculating, lying, planning and deception it takes to carry this out. Every single day.

That, is NOT someone who loves someone. That is someone who holds another in contempt. That is a person who has no respect for another. That is not love, that is the opposite of it. This was a COW, did she ever introduce you to him and possibly you just aren't aware of it?

[This message edited by SlapNutsABingo at 10:12 AM, April 6th (Monday)]

I see 2 issues in this thread.

One - informing OBS - is a small one, though it takes courage to resolve it. Inform her. Let her know her H has endangered and maybe destroyed their M and damaged her physical, emotional, and financial well-being.

The 2nd - should you end your M? - is much more complex.

You say you love her. Does that mean you'd like to R? It's important to know what you want, even if you don't see how you can get it.

Have you discussed her getting a new job? That's not a permanent solution, but it makes NC possible, and there's no R without NC. Is she willing to get a new job? If not, R is probably not likely.

You say she won't get counseling. If you're in the SF Bay area, I have a hard time imagining a company that will object to an employee's getting counseling, so her 'reason' is very questionable, IMO.

She didn't cheat because your M failed; she failed. Something in her enabled her to cheat. The low self-esteem that you mention could be it. Perhaps she allowed external validation (nice words and touches) from om to boost her self-esteem.

In any case, for R to succeed, she needs to change from betrayer to good partner, and that will almost definitely require counseling, which is readily available in the SF area.

Do you have requirements for R. Usual ones are: no more lies/answers all questions without TT; NC; IC for WS; transparency and access to all media; IC for BS, if he wants it; MC, when one partner wants it.

Those are all observable. If you monitor performance you can get an idea of where you are in R. If, for example, she breaks NC, it's a clear violation of your agreement, and consequences follow. If your gut says she's holding back the truth, she's probably violating your agreement; consequences follow. Etc., etc., etc..

*****

I don't understand the focus on exposing the A. Yeah, it kills As, but that leaves the BS open to being the default.

R needs both partners to want it enough to do serious, difficult work. If the WS comes back after the A is exposed, it's too likely that s/he just wants a comfortable port in a storm ... until the next flashy object shows up.

Exposure seems more beneficial to the BS if the BS chooses D - but even that is iffy, because exposure can do financial damage, especially in the case of an on-the-job A.

JMO, of course. I could easily be missing something....

*****

I strongly recommend that you make your goal 'survive and thrive' rather than D or R. You can survive and thrive with or without your WS.

R requires 2 participants, and the BS cannot control the WS. So look to healing yourself first. Figure out what you really want. If it's R, then pay attention to whether or not the WS is a good candidate for R.

[This message edited by sisoon at 1:21 PM, April 6th (Monday)]

You said this affair was a year and a half when you discovered it (that you know of, you have no proof that it wasn't more. Or if you do you haven't mentioned that).

True, I'm basing that on what she told me, what I believe and what I have been able to verify. Thinking back a few years, her boss was taking the office away for the weekend. She said it was for employees only, but I remembered something she had said when the event first came up contradicting that and lo and behold I was invited. Far as I can remember he was not there, but everybody else's spouses were.

I have been to some, not a lot of her work events and it is possible I have met him, but to be honest, he is such an unimpressive POS that I might have forgotten.

Its not that she can't get counseling, she won't. She is deathly afraid of being known as the "Office whore" her words. She does not want anyone at work to know. So following that....

She has asked me not to ask her to look for a new job, so I know I rank below her job.

[This message edited by achilles1101 at 5:11 PM, April 6th (Monday)]

If she didn't want to be the "office whore" she shouldn't have had a workplace A. If you still trying to R blow the whole thing out of the water, NC FOREVER is paramount, contact HR and out them, OM is a superior so most likely he will get fired, if she's afraid of the office gossip she should get another job.

She has asked me not to ask her to look for a new job, so I know I rank below her job.

Yep and currently your actions or lack of tell her you’re ok with this situation.

The affair has probably been going on a lot longer that you previously thought. She has another life going on the side.

And the affair is ongoing.