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You can want R and have all the requirements you want.

It takes 2.

Sounds like she plays along just enough to keep you pacified. Nothing more.

She is deathly afraid of being known as the "Office whore" her words. She does not want anyone at work to know.

Is it that, or is it that she doesn't want to be fired? Honestly, she doesn't get to dictate this sort of thing. You do. It's too bad she doesn't want this consequence, but maybe don't have an affair then.

I'm one who opted, after a lot of thought, to *not* disclose at my exWW's work. I was incredibly concerned that she would lose her job (I really think she would have) and I'd end up paying alimony forever. I'm really happy with my choice, but I *also* know that the major reason I was never able to get a real R effort was because the A never ended. And the A never ended because there was no reason for it to. There was no consequence at work, and AP was unmarried.

If my exWW's AP *had* been married, I would have at least disclosed to the OBS. Hindsight being 20/20, I would have done it in a hot minute. It's so obvious how important that is to those of us who have walked this walk.

To be clear: you need to disclose to OBS. Really, you do. Not only will it end the A immediately and ruin your WW's chances of any future with AP (high likelihood he'll throw her under the bus immediately and ditch her asap), but you'll be doing a great service to that poor woman who doesn't know yet. It's hard, but it's the right move.

She has asked me not to ask her to look for a new job,

Sorry to tell you, but if R is something you decide you want (and you don't have to want that), you need to know that you're never going to get that if she doesn't get another job. She'll be in contact with AP, having secret conversations every day, and you'll feel that every day forever. You'll always be anxious and you'll always be unhappy unless you're superhuman. Not a good place to be.

EDIT to add: if you don't want R and are coming around to the D train, then I wouldn't worry too much about telling work at all. OBS is still important.

[This message edited by Okokok at 7:15 PM, April 6th (Monday)]

She doesn't want you to force anything WRT her work because she doesn't want to lose contact with the OM. She is still deep in her A.

If she were truly remorseful, she would be willing to do just about anything you need. She would definitely go to counseling. I don't understand how that would expose her as the office whore. Counseling is legally required to be confidential.

I also don't see how finding a job somewhere else would expose her as such. She doesn't have to give anyone a reason for doing so. All of these bullshit excuses are just that, bullshit excuses. If she is remorseful, she will cut all contact with the OM, which includes finding another job.

She's playing you and you are letting her.

Sir, you need to take decisive action.

You are showing her weakness and softness. You are allowing her to drive this situation.

Stop...

Who is the boss here? If she is willing to burn it down and walk out and you aren't...she is in charge. Take charge, decide on your destination, and launch. Drive your own life. Drive it like you want and do what you know to be right. You don't need her permission for anything.

There is a book you should read, it is called "no more mr. nice guy".

Flat out...D papers cut through fog. She is a liar and you are allowing it. Poly her, inform the other betrayed spouse, inform friends, and drop D papers. It is the only way to take charge in your situation.

** Posting as a member **

My opinion very much differs from WalkingHome's, so much so that I'm posting again.

You need a decision that is as close to optimal for you as possible. All other things being equal, that can take time. If you appear indecisive while you're deciding, so be it. The important things are being authentic, being true to yourself, and being honest, especially with yourself.

You cannot control the situation. You are not the boss of your W. You are only the boss of you.

There's no point in trying to manipulate your W or the sitch. Say and do what you mean; mean what you say and do. If you file for D, go for D - don't use it, or anything else, as a tool to bring your W back.

R requires honest commitments from all parties. If one party is brought into R by manipulation, that party is likely to crap out when R gets tough. That means you've just wasted time - perhaps a lot of time - on an R that was too shaky at the start.

Be yourself. If your W doesn't want to be with the real you, you don't need her.

*****

The phrase 'get out of infidelity' is used often on SI. That's an important concept. The other side of it is figuring out where you'll go when you get out of infidelity. That's even more important than getting out of infidelity.

The best place to go is the best place you can think of, given the external constraints that bind you. (R might be best for someone, but R is impossible unless that someone's partner will commit to R. That's the type of external constraint I'm referring to.)

If you let fear drive your decision-making, if you choose based on what you want to avoid, you force yourself into lose-lose choices. If you think about making the best life you can for yourself, you come out a winner.

*****

So look at your life, achilles. Is your attachment to your W in your best interest?

You stifle yourself. Is that really how you want to live?

I can understand not being ready to make hard choices - but I'd also argue that when you're not ready is the time to get help.

You've sought help from SIers. Although we differ on approach, we end up in the same place - your W is not a candidate for R at this time, and unless she changes, your best bet is to split.

And, we say, she's not likely to change unless you change and ask for what you want.

If you're still not ready to act on the basis of what you've read here, I urge you to consider finding and working with a good IC.

Man, I'm sorry about the loss of your father. I'm sorry about your job and physical difficulties. I'm sorry you feel guilty. (I have to say, though, you are not responsible for your father's choices.) I'm sorry your W chose this time to break your heart.

[This message edited by sisoon at 12:04 PM, April 7th (Tuesday)]

Just to clarify some things'

WS and AP are peers so they would both be fired for workplace rules violations as opposed to some sexual harassment thing. So no benefit to me, at least financially to blowing it up at work regardless if we R or D.

I finally decided to tell OBS. I am terrible with using the computer but think I have found her name. Still working on a phone number.

I am taking a step back and will evaluate how everything goes, including telling OBS.

I was asked what I wanted. I would like R for a number of reasons, some pure, some selfish. I believe I can do it from my end if she truly commits and can do it on her end.

We shall see

So no benefit to me, at least financially to blowing it up at work regardless if we R or D.

Fair enough--that's a legitimate reason not to expose at work--but know that the A will continue.

When you tell OBS, then you may see some change.

Still have a lot to think about, though. Careful, guy; she's not being honest with you. Keep your eyes open. Keep getting advice here.

Definitely a lot to think about. Funny, I guess not really, but you can understand something intellectually and then emotions get involved and everything goes out the window.

I would like R....

Knowing what you want is a good start. Congratulations (really).

Next steps:

1) Would R look like to you? What are your requirements for R? (This is more 'What do you want' stuff, but R won't go well unless you know what you want and how you'll know if you're getting it.)

2) Is your W a good enough candidate for R? At this point, the answer is 'No,' but that can change. You can't change her, but you can change yourself, and that could influence her to change.

Would R look like to you? What are your requirements for R?

Total transparency and honesty. Being proactive about R. No excuses. Not just doing things for me but feeling things for me.

Just a start. but I know things will never be like they were and maybe she can grow a little.

The problem is how do I know if I am getting it? There so many ways to hide contact.

The other problem is she doesn't want to leave me but can not totally let go of him so I have to see if that changes. If not I need to leave

[This message edited by achilles1101 at 7:23 PM, April 8th (Wednesday)]

it's hard to compete with fantasy when you are dealing with mortgages, kids in school, bills and the like. I just don't get affairs. I don't understand how you get to the point of cheating on someone you love

Achilles (always my fave character of mythology)

You are not happy. You don’t have a wife who prioritizes making you happy over all others. You can’t live life like that and have it be enjoyable. You deserve a happy life.

So I’m big on honesty. Saying exactly what you need to be happy in the relationship and if you dont get it, moving on. That’s hard. But the alternative is worse.

So this is what I’d do and say.

Call a lawyer today. Find out what it takes to have D papers served.

Then tell your wife:

I will not be in a relationship where my spouse puts others feelings ahead of mine and cares for the happiness of another man over me. I AM FILING FOR DIVORCE. If you think I am important enough to you to not let that happen, then you have until the divorce is completed to change who you are and how you behave and rebuild this marriage your actions have destroyed.

Achilles. Then walk the talk. Honestly there is no other way to have a chance for R with a wife like yours. If she screws her head on straight and starts acting like the partner she vowed to be, then great. But chances are, she won’t. And you’ll have a head start on getting on with your life and finding happiness.

What you have been doing has not been working. So why not try this. Stating what you need to see to stay, and telling her that when she’s completed it you’ll discuss whether your interested in her still is the only way to go.

You don’t stay when she says I WILL DO IT. You’re only interested when she says “I’ve done it”.

Once you’ve told her this, Get the lawyer to serve the papers and call his wife and tell her you’ve been hurt terribly by your wife and her husband and you didn’t think she should be kept in the dark in her own marriage. She may cry, scream or thank you. But whatever she does it was never your fault.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 7:02 AM, April 9th (Thursday)]

Its all bs . talked to OSP and this has been going on for years. ftw time to find my Lilith out her

Sorry man. She just went into self protection mode. The continued contact was because the affair never ended.

So the other mans wife knew all the time?

What are your plans now?

achilles1101

Time to take on your namesake. Find your rage.

If you want to save your marriage, you must be willing to lose it and she must believe it.

Here are some actions to take to set a tone with her, and to move on.

1.) Lawyer up. Have her served. At work would be good if you are really enraged. You may not want to out her at work if it means you will have to pay more, but this is something she really fears, so you may want use it as a bargaining chip. It can called off if she gets her head out of Hades.

2.) STD check. If she wants R, she has to take one also. Sets a tone.

3.) DNA test your kids. I don't care if they are your spitin' image. Set the tone!

4.) No Contact letter perused & approved by you, and sent.

5.) A written timeline of the affair to be checked against a polygraph. There are many confessions that come out in the parking lot before the test. Also, reserve the right to polygraph at unannounced times.

6.) Expose to your kids in an age-appropriate way. Expose to family and friends. This can be a bargaining chip also. She is afraid to be exposed for the slutty behavior she has shown she is capable of.

7.) She has to write a plan of reconciliation. What is she going to do to atone for being another man's whore?

8.) Get yourself in IC, to hell with MC. There is no marriage to counsel. She ended the marriage years ago without letting you know.

9.) Do the 180 religiously. Here is a link: http://healinginfidelity.blogspot.com/2014/03/the-180-for-hurt-spouses.html

10.) Get all finances under your control. Change insurance beneficiaries. Credit Cards, banking, etc. change your will. Get your ducks lined up.

11.) Get a couple of VARS. (Voice Activated Recorders) Hide one in her car. Keep one on you at all times when dealing with her.

12.) Do not do the pick-me-dance. Do not beg, do not cry in front of her, do not try to reason with her. It makes you look weak. Not something Achilles would do.

13.) Remember what Maximus said in "Gladiator", "Strength & Honor". SET a tone Brother!

[This message edited by skerzoid at 3:37 AM, April 9th (Thursday)]

Its all bs . talked to OSP and this has been going on for years. ftw time to find my Lilith out her

I'm sorry, guy. Sucks. But now you have a little more perspective.

So what's next? What are you thinking today will look like?

I don't understand how you get to the point of cheating on someone you love

They don't cheat on someone they love. They cheat on someone they have contempt for.

Thank goodness you talked to the OBS. Now, you know the truth. No, you can make a truly informed decision about your life.

Skerzoid has given you a good plan to follow. Do you have the strength and balls to follow it?

As you can probably tell from my incoherent post last night, alcohol and a key board don't mix well.

So talked to OBS last night. She knew already. Told me this went back five years. She didn't provide much new info other than that. Kind of put it off to stress on her husband from life issues. The death of a relative I believe. But was a little surprised it was still going on.

I was blown away to say the least. Didn't handle it well obviously and confronted WS, Wrong thing to do in my condition and it went poorly.

Long story short, I am totally devastated and am trying to collect my thoughts. My initial reaction is rage. Right now I can't get passed that.

All lies, right now I can't get passed that. She could have come clean but didn't. She even argued with me last night about the actual time frame. Like six months really made a difference. Incredible.

Thanks for all the help, you guys were spot on. At least I know now.

[This message edited by achilles1101 at 10:26 AM, April 9th (Thursday)]

That’s a long term affair. She’s been living another life on the side. Their bond is strong. Guess what? As long as they have contact the affair continues.

It would have been helpful if his wife had informed you. It’s always the right thing to do. She’s a rugsweeper. No help there.

The longer these things go on the harder they are to break.

The one thing you should’ve learned is “All cheaters lie a lot”.