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My WH revealed to me only last night that our DD’s husband tried several times to question WH about ‘what really went on between US’.

My DD and I have had a few very private and honest Mother / Daughter talks. None of SIL’s business. We have never discussed him.

My DD has never questioned her Father about his A’s. She didn’t feel she needed to.

I was absolutely dismayed that SIL had gone behind her back and mine, fishing for WH to tell his side.

WH admitted that he was taken aback and lied to SIL about the whole thing.

I mentioned to WH that he didn’t consider it strange that our daughter has not raised it with him privately, yet SIL has.

We are both really concerned that our SIL is minimising what WH has done and making me look like I am overreacting.

Now, WH and SIL barely know each other as we live on opposite ends of the World.

Since they married in 2017, we as parents haven’t been able to speak to our DD privately. SIL was lurking in the room during What I thought was a private conversation between my DD and I.

WH hasn’t been the best husband and father but now he’s even concerned about the control our SIL has over even the information she divulges about the state of their marriage.

Control is abuse. My DD is too sweet and innocent to see this.

My own mother had an A when I was 18 and I couldn’t imagine my H questioning my mother about her A. I am pretty outraged.

I’m sorry but I don’t understand this post. Please forgive my questions they are not meant to stir the pot but just trying to understand the dynamics here.

You told your Daughter about your H’s Affair. She knows some details but not all details (if I read that correctly).

So you don’t know what the son- in -law knows or has been told by your daughter. But son-in-law asked your CH (his father in law) for details about his affair.

Maybe your daughter is really hurting and cannot face her father. Maybe the pain is too much and she needs answers. So the SIL asked some questions in an effort to help her.

Unless I am missing something I don’t see his actions as being they egregious. Maybe you need to provide some details that can help me understand this outrage you are feeling.

I'm a bit confused, too.

What, specifically, did your SIL ask that makes you think he is minimizing what your CH did?

Is it possible your DD wants her father's side of the story, but doesn't feel comfortable asking? Maybe she doesn't want you to feel like she's going behind your back to talk to her dad so she asked her husband to talk to him. Maybe she is too upset and can't face her dad, but needs answers.

According to WH, SIL stated that I have misled my DD about the extent of the betrayal as she won’t speak to him about it.

My WH was often, physically violent, verbally abusive, emotionally abusive and my children unfortunately witnessed this.

We also separated for a year when DD was 5 years old, as WH left to be with OW. This didn’t last and he returned. That A, was rug swept and we carried on as a happy family.

Most of these details my SIL possibly has no knowledge of unless my DD has confided in him, which I doubt.

WH did confirm that our DD didn’t question a thing I have divulged.

We once again have separated due to WH commencing another affair in 2018.

WH lied to SIL. Told him I was full of shit. That I am crazy.

My DD knows the truth, she didn’t need to ask her father, she’s seen it all before.

I really want to tell SIL to stay out of it, especially if he’s happy to go along believing WH lies.

Oh, no. My DD was dismayed that SIL confronted her father in a cafe while we stepped away to order breakfast for everyone.

That conversation was cut very short by my DD.

Why are you putting this pressure on your daughters marriage?

My wife is my best friend and I share EVERYTHING that impacts or burdens me with her. If you share a secret with me you can expect my wife to know too. That’s the way a marriage should be and IMHO is a sign of a good marriage.

What I would agree with is that maybe your SIL reaction to this information should have been directed towards his wife. We only have one side, they are dealing with it, we can support but shouldn’t take sides or interfere.

LadyG, you say you are angry with your SIL for believing WH's lies, but no one has actually tried to give him the truth of the situation. ?????

If no one had ever shown you or told you the earth was round, but that it was flat, what would you believe?

You say it is none of your SIL's business, why are you protecting your WH? Clearly SIL senses stress from his W (your daughter) related to her parents splitting up. Anyone in his situation would ask his wife "Do you know why they are splitting up?" I would agree he doesn't need all details, simply "WH was unfaithful and for that reason we have separated". Now he doesn't need to dig for anything.

If you're annoyed he believes your WH then tell him the truth. How do you expect him to support your daughter without the correct information.

I thought maybe he was concerned that her relationship with her father wasn't good and that she was hurt by her father's actions and he went at this as a misguided attempt to repair their relationship? Perhaps your daughter has talked to him about her feelings towards all of it, and she is naturally on your side not just because of the affair but because he hadn't been a good dad or a good man? Your SIL is maybe reading it wrong that you have poisoned her against her father, he feels it's detrimental to her, and wanted to give her father a chance to clear the air?

No, it's not his business as to what happened, and it probably feels abrupt or an invasion of privacy, but I feel your daughter has probably told him a lot in order to be supported. He may just have a misguided feeling he can "fix it".

LadyG honey you seem to spend an awful lot of time here trying to get advice on how to handle your wh, your anger at him, now your anger at SIL etc etc etc. You still talk to your wh on the regular if I am reading your posts correctly, even though you guys are separated because he is a narcissistic abusive dipshit that has abused you most of your marriage, and (I believe) is currently cheating on you. Stop worrying about him and his "feelings". You guys are separated - his shit is not your concern right now. And guess what? A remorseful decent human would have had a frank and honest convo with their SIL, not spread more lies that are designed to make you look like the 'crazy' one.

Your DD needs to wrangle her own shit with her dad and her husband and leave you out of the middle of it. That is not your job to do. She's grown. My mom and I are close too, but I handle my own business. I do not expect or want her trying to handle things for me.

IME, spending time worrying about other people has been a good smoke screen to avoid having to deal with my own feelings and my own crap. I did it with my alcoholic mother for years and years. I did it with my xdouchehole for the better part of a year after dday1 - during which time I allowed him to keep disrespecting and abusing me. That ended when I said fuck-this-shit and started taking care of myself.

You need to please focus all this energy you are expending worrying about your wh, SIL, DD, etc etc and focus it on yourself. What do YOU want and need? What do YOU want the rest of your life to look like? Just because it has been a way for years, does not mean it has to stay that same way going forward. The ride ends when you decide to exit it.

Sending you strength and hugs LadyG!

I grew up in a family of transgenerational lies. It damaged everyone. Truth is truth. Your Wh's A's have damaged the family and tgatvdamage, if not dealt with, will be, and I mean WILL be transgenerational. You know, the sins of the father and all that. I bet, if you sat down, you would be able to trace the infidelity thread back a few generations in one or both family lines.

The reasons for this are both myriad and misunderstood. But there is a statistically significant increase in children of adulterous parents. I think I read a 40% increase. But that is only one point. For me, secrets mean stress. And you can't take out a sharpie and draw borders around the stress, that's mine and that's yours. It bleeds over the lines and if you can't put a name to it, it is even more nefarious.

Why not talk. RIP the bloody sheets off the thing and let the fresh air in. Equip both your DD and SIL with the tools to save their marriage from possible infidelity rather than saving you WS's reputation? Stop the history of infidelity with your generation.

I am a big fan of truth and I wanted to tell my kids about their mothers A, but both my STBXWW and my lawyer were against it, so I opted to tell them that I wo8ld be honest if they asked any question. They did not want to know, but I think they suspect. They said that they just want to be kids a little longer. I respect that, but I will not edit my life to accomadate them. I will be respectful, but I won't lie. When they are older, I will tell them and buy them each a copy of Not Just Friends. I never want them to betray or be betrayed. I can't let anyone, save my STBXWW, experience betrayal. I must admit, I would dance a jig in the street if she got betrayed and screwed over...

I’d be more pissed about what my WH said to SIL. My husband knows a lot of my family history including what my parents were like. That’s not uncommon.

Maybe SIL hasn’t seen that side of WH and was confused by what he heard. He shouldn’t dismiss your claims and he shouldn’t get involved any further.

WH hasn’t been the best husband and father but now he’s even concerned about the control our SIL has over even the information she divulges about the state of their marriage.

It sounds like he's projecting. He's also a liar and a pot stirrer. Who knows what SIL really said about why he was asking your WH for his side of the story. Nothing you have posted indicates that SIL is trying to control your DD by asking your WH about what's going on.

I'm actually a little surprised by your response to this. Why? Because the most offensive and concerning thing about the situation is that your WH still felt it was appropriate to throw you under the bus and insult you when questioned. But of course he had a laundry list of excuses and immediately turned your attention towards what bad thing your SIL is doing. "Look at him! Why is he nosing around anyways? Yeah I know I lied again and gaslit another person using your name... But what about how controlling he is!" Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender. It's a real tactic that people use to take the accountability off of themselves and place it on someone else. And you bought it - hook, line, and sinker.

LadyG, it's incredible to me that you encourage your DD to keep secrets from SIL and I can guarantee you it's part of why he confronted your WH to begin with. Keeping secrets is how As start in the first place. Many WSes started being open to an A after they started keeping other little, seemingly harmless secrets from their BSes. It is unhealthy to promote that kind of crap to your DD.

Unless you're leaving a lot out about SIL and how he treats your DD, the only evidence you have of anything being amiss with him is from your WH and during situations where it is beneficial for him to lie to you about SIL. It's not a surprise that DD tried to stop it because you taught her never to rock the boat like that but not every family is quick to cover up lies and let sleeping dogs lie to keep the peace. SIL may have been raised to confront lies and get the truth in order to solver family problems. That's not wrong or unhealthy but it is deeply threatening to a family dynamic like yours which is wrapped around your WH's little finger and everyone jumps to keep him from going off the rails. Also give SIL a break about whose side he may be on. Every single one of you is lying to him about the situation in some shape or form so he can't possibly make an informed decision about who is telling the truth. It makes sense that he goes with your WH because he lies the loudest and the best out of the bunch.

Get yourself into IC. Start putting these toxic family dynamics into perspective. If your SIL really is controlling and hurting your DD, an IC can guide you through potentially helping her too to stop the cycle of abuse that is now plaguing your family. Learn how to start breaking that cycle by leaving your WH for good and find your anger for him. Doesn't matter what SIL said or did. He does not get a pass and he does not get credit for telling you. The insanity and pain only stop when you work to make it stop by putting strong boundaries in place with the people who hurt you.

My WH revealed to me only last night that our DD’s husband tried several times to question WH about ‘what really went on between US’.

WH admitted that he was taken aback and lied to SIL about the whole thing.

A narcissist never stops being a narcissist, right? You're probably used to getting defensive when your WH accuses you of things because he's been doing this to you for your entire R, but that's what narcissists do.

Your WH was called point blank on his shitty behavior.

He hated it.

He blamed SIL and you for whatever convos may or may not have happened.

Everyone's out to get your WH. Poor baby.

Just say, "Hmm. You were uncomfortable? Well, you could try not doing the shitty things he's asking about? I know that has kept me from being uncomfortable all my life."

And so he lied????

THAT should have bothered you the most. No remorse or ownership whatsoever.

I've read your thread and can only advise that you drop it. I understand that you love your daughter but she has made her choice and married the SIL. It's his business if he wants to hear your ex's side of the story however untrue it might be. If your daughter doesn't want to give the other side or if the SIL doesn't want to hear from you, then it's not your problem. If you begin to interfere in the marriage, you'll end up ex-communicated. The SIL has more say in your daughter's life now then you do. Don't ruin your relationship with your daughter by harboring resentment or talking bad about the SIL. If you want to see and play with your grand-kids, you'd do well to drop this issue and forget about it. Allow your daughter to live her life how she pleases and with whom she pleases. You've raised her and released her. It's upon her now to make her mistakes and learn her lessons. Please don't interfere in that. I wish the best for you.

Fuck your SIL. You can't fix stupid. And, I agree, he has no right questioning anyone about your M, it's absolutely none of his business. He's a drama queen trying to get attention and stir the pot.

That being said, now that you've vented, ignore him. You have no control over what he does unless he directly comes to your face with drama. And, most cowards don't do that. It is none of your business, and really, not your problem what he decided to think about you. Go NC where you can, and ignore him like he is invisible when you have to endure his presence. Do tell your daughter you have no desire to be around him when it's not necessary.

And, same for your STBX. NC. NC. NC!

Thank you for all your advice.

Yes, there has been trans generational infidelity on all sides. My Grandmother told me about her experience with it when I was old enough to understand.

Affairs can only take place under the veil of secrecy.

Yes, my WH is a narcissist. My sons are well aware of this. They have seen the ugly side of it and don’t even question it.

My SIL has resentments against his own mother and I don’t question him about it. He’s chosen to side with his father and has nothing good to say about his mother. Yes, his own parents live in a very dysfunctional marriage. He sees this.

I have only told my daughter that I am having counseling for my PTSD and that’s all. I have promised to never speak about it again unless she wants to know.

I want to stop the cycle of abuse and infidelity. I do not want her to be ok with it, thinking that it’s normal.

LadyG, you are handling the situation as you think is best for you and I respect that.

In my opinion, telling your DD about the A doesn't normalize infidelity. You and your WH are divorcing and you are in counseling to deal with the trauma. To me, that shows consequences to infidelity and the damage it does. That is only my opinion and you know your own situation best. I wish you luck and hope you are successful and that none of your children have to go through that.

LadyG, do you think your SIL has narcissistic qualities? Do you fear your daughter has married someone exactly like her father?

I did not read all the responses but I am just going to put this out here. This biggest thing that stood out to me in your post is that there is dishonesty in your family.

I do not understand why you did not express more concern over WH lying. This would only serve to make things worse IMO. IF he lied to SIL what makes you think he would not lie to you? He has done that before too right?

Lying is a form of control

[This message edited by Jesusismyanchor at 10:19 AM, June 25th (Thursday)]