SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi Everyone, I hope you're all well, and best wishes up front to all of you currently dealing with infidelity.

Have been reading a lot on here lately, I've unfortunately found myself on the receiving end of cheating around quite grey circumstances semi-recently. Now, I'm in the process of trying to reconcile but under pretty tough conditions.

Apologies in advance - this has ended up being much longer than planned!

Myself (27M) and my gf (25F) have been together 5 years, I'm in the military, she works in business. Last year when I was told I was going on tour for 6 months she said she wanted to take the opportunity to move to work overseas temporarily. Given the amount I've been able to travel with my job I was supportive of her decision. She's watched me enjoy my work immensely the past few years whilst she's hated her's so I thought the least I could do to take the sting out of me going away again was to support her in being able to experience a bit of the fun I've had with work.

Before she went I spoke to her about my concerns and how she needed to watch herself in situations with alcohol and people she didn't know well. We hadn't had any issues previously but I knew this was the sort of move that may put her in positions where the relationship would be tested I.e situations involving alcohol and guys she doesn't know making passes at her. This was particularly pertinent as where she was going she knew no one and had no support network of family / friends. She went away before I deployed in November last year, and I stuck around finishing off pre-tour training.

All was going absolutely fine in our relationship before she went away, we have always been semi-long distance and haven't moved in together, it was something we'd planned for the end of this year. Whilst she was there initially we were doing fine, we missed each other a lot but we had timetabled out when we would be able to see each other to break up the time apart. Last Nov / Dec I managed to get a month skiing in France in between training, our communication became a little less frequent at this point but not it was not an issue which bothered me - this was when the bad news struck.

About 2 months after arriving at her new job, her company held an Xmas party, we had been chatting and sending photos / videos of how we were both getting on that day/night, and she'd been sending me photos of stuff she'd been buying in the charity auction for us to do together when I came to visit. Nothing was amiss, and there was nothing which caused me concern, I was actually also out that night enjoying the apres. I went to bed with the usual goodnight messages and thought nothing of it.

The following day I received a message from her to the effect of 'Honey, I love you, we always said we'd be honest with each other – I'm so upset.' From this I knew immediately what I was about to hear, and told her to call me. She did, in tears '... I've betrayed your trust.'

Of course my emotions went in to overdrive, but my response at the time was pretty calm, I asked for confirmation on what had happened and I got a short answer from her. Angry, annoyed, upset and confused I told her I needed time to think and put the phone down.

Situation wise, she couldn't tell me during that call what had happened as she had limited memory. Over the following week she spoke with her friends who pieced some of the night back together for her. The work party, being hosted by a big business was pretty heavy on the free drink, champagne, shots and generally high % stuff being the go-to. She'd been drinking with the other new starters of the company and drank more than usual very quickly. At the conclusion of the party they all went and bar hopped – according to her friends - during this time nothing was amiss with my gf, just very drunk and already at the point where she wasn't going to remember anything. Being with new work colleagues she's since told me she naively felt in a safe environment and at ease and so drank at the same pace as them as more rounds were bought.

Having drunk enough to black out, at the end of the night she got in to a taxi with a new housemate, and 2 other work colleagues. The new housemate hadn't moved in properly yet but according to him decided to go back to the new apartment that a few of them had got together as it was much closer. My gf and him had little interaction during the night as they were with different groups but as people started thinning out he ended up getting in the same cab. My gf doesn't remember the car journey (or much from the bar hopping) but all 3 of the others did, stating she seemed very drunk but was still talking. They arrived at the apartment and my gf and her new housemate got out. They decided to see if another bar over the road was open for a night cap but it wasn't so they went back to the apartment.

My gf remembers none of this, but having had the horrific deal of receiving a phone call from this guy – he stated that they drunkenly walked back to the apartment and at the porch of the house they kissed - no idea who initiated, before going up to my gf's room where they had sex. He evidently remembered what happened throughout, but speaking directly to him following what happened I really didn't need to hear the details.

My gf remembers a very vague / brief memory of the kiss on the porch but nothing in detail before, or after. The main 3 parts of the night that she can remember are coming down a staircase in a bar, dancing in another club and part of the kiss on the porch. Her recollection is pretty vague and almost looking 3rd person at the event when trying to recall it. When speaking to her friends about the night, she's again been told that other than being very drunk, she wasn't acting up, being flirtatious or otherwise.

Next thing she knows, she woke up naked next to this new housemate, she put on a dressing gown and told him he had to leave. She showered, burst in to tears and when she came out of the shower the guy had gone. Then she called me.

So this was about 7 months ago now, I knew after about 2 weeks of thinking on it that it was a huge drunken fuck up. Despite completely and utterly messing up our otherwise amazing relationship she seems legitimately remorseful for what happened and doesn't know how she made those decisions that she wouldn't have whilst sober, she had no intention of doing anything like this from her arrival overseas and doesn't find the person attractive. Though she understands that the situation could be interpreted as rape, she's taken responsibility and stated that even though she doesn't remember anything, from the grey recollection she has she can only assume she consented by 'going along with it' in her blackout state. She doesn't recall any of the thoughts she had at the time, and doesn't remember entering the house, that image is the last thing she has any memory of.

So here I now am, in a position I never thought I'd be in, given the circumstances I've decided to give 100% to try and work through this with her as she's as horrified as I am that it happened. She's been cheated on before in a previous relationship and her parents divorced due to an affair on her Dad's side. If I'm honest it has been and still is an absolute struggle. The main reason I chose to give her another chance is:

She called me straight away to tell me, regardless of the fact I would never have found out otherwise. She told me that having completely broken the trust I put in her it was the most honest thing she could do, and that ultimately the decision should be mine.

Despite the distance, we had a very strong relationship before this, seems one fuckup in 5 years of good relationship warrants at least an effort to move past.

No history of cheating or any type of straying in ours or any previous relationships.

She's taken 100% responsibility for what happened, despite mentioning other stressors that may have contributed towards it (loneliness, missing me, feeling isolated and the stresses of starting a new job) she recognises that the sum of everything she may have been feeling does not excuse what happened.

In the months since it's happened, the story hasn't changed, no new details etc. She seems to be genuine in having no recollection past what she's told me.

After DDay I knew the first half (at least) of this year was going to be shit anyway, Being on tour, I'm in a busy time in my career so I figured if I'm going to feel shit either way I might as well feel shit and try to make it work.

I'm at ease with either outcome now whether we stay or part ways. Regardless I know I have it in myself to find forgiveness for what happened, and I think it's important I do to be able to move forward either with her, or on my own whilst minimising the impact it will have on future relationships.

We're currently having CC weekly that she set up. We're having major ups and downs but have come a long way since D-Day. I didn't insist that she left the job to come back home, as I would be going away anyway so it didn't make a great deal of difference. She understands if anything else happens then that's it for us and I figured it's probably a good way for her to start demonstrating commitment to me again. She since cut out drinking and she didn't move in to the apartment where it happened. She doesn't have contact with the guy. They work at the same place but he's in a different Dept and she works out at client sites anyway.

We've spent a bit of time together post-D-Day, I had a week to mull things over before we saw each other over Xmas, which as you can imagine was a mixed bag and all through January was pretty messy emotionally. She came back again for a weekend just before I deployed which was much better, but still difficult. I think the requirement of 'get the fuck on with it' that comes with my work has allowed me to do just that in perhaps quicker time than some in my position.

I suppose I've pasted this all up on here as it's quite unique in that we're trying to reconcile at such distance, particularly now with COVID meaning we've both been isolating in separate places and won't be able to see each other until later this year. Also had a couple of things I wanted to bounce off others on here for opinions.

Am I coming at this from the wrong angle? Despite her taking responsibility, I've read so much on the grey area surrounding alcohol impairment and consent. It seems to me that this situation epitomises the greyness of the issue, highlighting someone acting completely without thought and out of character due to high quantities of alcohol. Due to the act and how she's recalled events I've found myself being quite hard on her, but the ambiguity of it makes me feel like perhaps I shouldn't be?

Has anyone else reconciled / recovered from this situation that could shed any light on how long it took you as a couple to recover? Currently I've found I'm completely plateau'd with how I'm coping with it and stuck in a cycle that is often more negative than positive.

Anyone who's found themselves on the opposite side of this, I'm all ears to your point of view with it and whether your relationship survived or not.

I've seen a lot of (well founded) negativity about drunken cheating on here. Early in our relationship my gf and I had a discussion about it and stated a 0 tolerance policy under any circumstances. Having seen this scenario in friends' relationships since I feel that if an individual is in the range of tipsy to drunk then they absolutely have an awareness and a responsibility to stop shit like this from happening and I agree moreso with the 'drunk actions, sober thoughts' line of thought as the person still has a conscious connection to their usual behaviours.

However, when someone gets to the stage of having a blackout they have a blood alcohol level of at least .18, at this stage an individual is removed from their right mind with regards to judgement, memory and decision-making. Therefore I'm of the stance that what happens to an individual in this state becomes a lot more situational than conscious. The individual is of course responsible for not getting in to this state, but shit happens in new scenarios and people end up consuming more than intended. I think if something happens when in this state, but there hasn't been a build up of suspect behaviour prior when less drunk, it more highlights an issue with associated with extreme alcohol consumption then the true nature of an individual.

So that's really that, we're seeing each other later this year, the whole situation between us geographically has given us an enforced rest and a lot of thinking space. The core feelings between us haven't changed, but this event has completely and perhaps irreparably knocked the trajectory of our relationship. The next step, and real decision point for me will be at the end of our time spent together later this year.

If you've stuck around this long, thanks for reading, it's a hopefully somewhat coherent vent. In writing so much I'm not in any way trying to justify or defend what she's done, it's an absolutely horrific thing that's happened and ultimately I deserve much better. Despite a dull unhappiness about what happened that follows me around most days I'm in no way a mess as I've got an exciting career, keep myself in good shape and know that if it does end now, I'll be able to meet another girl in the future.

TL;DR – My Girlfriend got blackout drunk and cheated on me. We're geographically separated and trying to recover. The circumstances are quite grey and I'm unsure whether my thought process is justified / fair for the ambiguity of the situation. Any additional constructive advice welcome.

I see this as rape and she should have filed a complain. Perhaps talk to HR as well.

Whether you want to leave her or stick with her is entirely your choice. You seemto want to R. If that’s the case, What is she doing to address her drinking? If there’s no change of behavior, then this will happen again. What are your conditions and boundaries for you to try R? How will you feel the next time she goes out with friends? She also need to get tested for STD.

The fact that she told you right away is very encouraging. But don’t simply rug sweep this without asking her to be a safe partner.

Edit: is she still working with this guy?

[This message edited by ShutterHappy at 3:38 PM, June 25th (Thursday)]

This is Rape. She needs to report it and get into counseling to help her deal with the trauma associated with sexual assault. She also might want to not drink. Do you think drinking is once in a great while or very common? If it appears to be a problem, she should maybe look at substance-abuse counseling as well. If not, just knowing not to trust anyone and not go overboard is a good thing as well.

Hi GoQuiet,

The problem with these drunken episodes is that in almost all of them, the person who did the drunken cheating cannot recall a lot of the most important key moments and exchanges where they could have said no or stopped it.

The betrayed person is always left wondering if the memory loss is real, or convenient.

What is troubling here is that your wife says that her friends confirmed that she was drunk, but not black-out drunk at the point that she got out of the cab.

Then she and this guy who may or may not have been a lot less drunk went to another bar, and by the time she left, she was a lot more drunk, or her drink had been spiked.

Beyond a couple of fragmentary memories from her, the next thing she remembers is waking up in bed next to the guy, naked.

That is why this statement does not add up:

Though she understands that the situation could be interpreted as rape, she's taken responsibility and stated that even though she doesn't remember anything, from the grey recollection she has she can only assume she consented by 'going along with it' in her blackout state. She doesn't recall any of the thoughts she had at the time, and doesn't remember entering the house, that image is the last thing she has any memory of.

If she does not remember saying 'yes', maybe she did not say it. So why is she taking full responsibility when if what she says is true, she had no idea what she was doing, and if she was as drunk as she says she was, she was in no fit state to give consent, even if she did?

Then there is this:

My gf remembers none of this, but having had the horrific deal of receiving a phone call from this guy – he stated that they drunkenly walked back to the apartment and at the porch of the house they kissed - no idea who initiated, before going up to my gf's room where they had sex. He evidently remembered what happened throughout, but speaking directly to him following what happened I really didn't need to hear the details.

Who initiated that phone call, and how did that guy get your number? It seems very strange that he would decide to call you up and tell you his version of events without any prompting from anyone else.

And if he was sober enough to recall everything in detail, and your GF was genuinely so drunk that she had no idea what she was doing, then he was a sober or mildly drunk guy who had sex with a woman he barely knew who was too drunk to give consent. Which is, effectively, rape.

And yet your GF is certain that it was not rape, as if she does recall giving consent and going along with it, but does not want to admit doing that.

Did she ask the guy to call you up? If so, was he delivering a cover story for her, at her request, or for himself, so he did not end up in court?

I apologise if it seems I am laboring the details, but they are very important when it comes to the issue of consent and how drunk both of them were.

However, as you then said this...

Therefore I'm of the stance that what happens to an individual in this state becomes a lot more situational than conscious. The individual is of course responsible for not getting in to this state, but shit happens in new scenarios and people end up consuming more than intended. I think if something happens when in this state, but there hasn't been a build up of suspect behaviour prior when less drunk, it more highlights an issue with associated with extreme alcohol consumption then the true nature of an individual.

...it looks like your view of it is that she basically got drunk, had a consensual one night stand, woke up, and regretted it.

Sadly, stuff like that does happen, even with random strangers.

In this case though, the ONS partner was a guy that your wife knew from work, and had built up enough of a rapport with to be comfortable doing a house-share with him. And to go drinking with him.

And he felt comfortable enough with her to push his luck and go to bed with her.

Perhaps the guy is a drink-spiking sexual predator, or an unprincipled scumbag who equates a woman being too drunk to say 'no' with full consent, but your GF's certainty that it was not rape suggests that there was more to it.

The element that you have not really covered, and possibly not looked into, is what kind of relationship your GF had built up with the guy in the time leading up to the incident.

If she had discussed being housemates with him, they clearly knew each other, and liked each other enough to consider living in close proximity (which is of course not proof of any romantic interest).

So what exactly was the nature of their relationship that led to the point that it culminated in a one night stand that your GF insists was consensual on her part, but which she regretted the morning after?

Before anyone thinks I am blaming a woman who was too drunk to say no for 'bringing it on herself', that is not my point at all.

I guess what I am questioning is why she believes that her consent was somehow implied.

Is she basing that on just the interactions of a couple of hours that night, or on the dynamic that had developed between her and her potential housemate beforehand?

Why did she take full responsibility rather than saying she was taken advantage of?

Yes, she may have been trashed when it happened, but I get the feeling that it may have been an accident that was waiting to happen, and had perhaps been building for a while before it happened.

Of course, that does not excuse the guy who was sober enough to remember it all pushing it to that stage when the GF was too smashed to know what she was doing, even if she liked the guy.

That element of a pre-existing connection or relationship might explain why the guy involved felt obliged to call GoQuiet and provide his account of the incident. If there was no relationship, why would he bother doing that?

Or was he simply a predator, presenting a tale of a woman who was only too happy to hit the hay with him, rather than admitting that he steered a drunk woman to her room, helped her out of her clothes, and then did what he did while she thought she must have consented?

To me, I get the feeling of a friendship that crossed boundaries to become something else, and ended up in bed after a night of drinking, quite possibly with the woman being too drunk to know what she was doing.

I think the biggest 'tell' is that after she sobered up, she was not happy with what happened. It suggests that if she had been sober the night before, it would not have happened.

The big question, of course, is whether or not to take things forward, or call it a day.

GoQuiet, the fact that you have come this forum, and not simply dropped your GF, suggests that you would like to see if things can work between you and your GF.

That being the case, I think you should wait until you and your GF can spend prolonged time together, which it seems like you have not been able to do for the five years that you have been together.

Be honest: how well do you really know each other?

The issue being discussed is your GF's involvement with another man, whatever its nature was, and the one night stand that it led to.

However, the real issue is whether or not you are truly suited to one another, and whether you will really gel as a couple when you can live together, in the same home, for a prolonged period.

No-one can answer that. You will only know by trying it.

That begs the question, "Should I try it, after what she did?"

The fact that you have not already made the decision indicates that you want to try it, so maybe you should, because that is how you feel.

Can anyone give you a guarantee that if you try it, nothing will go wrong, and there will be no repeat performances? No.

The truth is that every relationship is a gamble. Nobody gets married thinking they have not picked a winner. Not one person in this forum knew about it on their wedding day. That knowledge came later.

Your GF's one night stand might be an event that leads to a lifetime of casual drunken sex, or it could be a disaster from which she learns a lesson, and which she never repeats. Only time will tell on that score.

When you get to spend some time together, it would be worth getting her to explain why, after her actions, she wants to continue the relationship with you, and where she thinks it is going.

If the one night stand was a deal-breaker for you, you would be gone. As you are sticking around, why not treat it as a warning, and watch closely to see what lessons your GF has learnt from it?

If, long-term, she does not make you feel secure, or you find that you really do not - or cannot - have strong feelings for her any more, then the best thing is to part and both of you look for other people to start afresh with.

While it is healthy that you have reached a point mentally and emotionally where you know you will be fine if you end things with your GF, it raises the question of how much point there is to stay with someone that you would be fine parting with tomorrow?

It is not so much "Will she cheat again?" as "Will you ever feel safe loving and trusting her again?"

Only you can answer that.

If the answer is no, let her go.

She might have learnt a lesson from what she did, and transform into the best and most faithful life-partner in history, but if you do not feel comfortable with her, that will count for nothing.

If you think you will live every day prepared to let her go, and so emotionally detached that you will shrug that off, then let her go now, because you will never make each other happy.

Both of you deserve more than that.

[This message edited by M1965 at 5:46 PM, June 25th (Thursday)]

Hi Go Quiet,

Sorry you had to come here, but it’s good that you found us. You’ll get a ton of good advice here. I’m not necessarily in agreement with earlier posters that you WWGF’s experience was rape. It could have been, but it could have just as easily been two very drunken adults having sex. By jumping on the “rape” bandwagon it tends to excuse, or at least minimize, your WWGF’s actions/involvement and give you a reason to forgive and move to R.

I think the bigger issue for you and her to work through is the series of choices she made to get to her room with the OM in the first place. She remembers the kiss, in which she participated. The alcohol didn’t change who she was and enable her to kiss the OM, but rather, it exposed who she is and what she is capable of. Could the sex have followed the same pattern? Sadly, you’ll never know. Regardless, it’s clear she has a lot of work to do. You have plenty of time. Watch her actions, not her words. Stay strong.

She doesn’t remember saying yes or no. So no one knows if she was coerced or not.

I would give her the benefit of her truthfulness as being remorseful. She told you. She didn’t lie or hide anything.

She made a mistake that was partially out of her control b/c she was drunk. Terribly drunk. When you are intoxicated you make bad choices. We all know that.

However that doesn’t resolve your issue. Is this something YOU can live with? For some people cheating (under any circumstances) is a deal breaker. Only you can decide that and you know yourself best.

It doesn’t matter what the rest of us here think. She was not in a position to consent to the sex but no one has any way of knowing the interaction from the time they left the cab. The guy may have believed she was interested and willing. Who knows what happened. So sorry for this.

I agree with the fact that this was NOT necessarily rape, plus one could argue who raped who ? they were both drunk, I understand a male would have the upper hand but if drunk enough a male could be taken advantage of, I know this a very unlikely situation, but just wanted to throw it out there.

Anyways, these cases are typically not rape but a case of inhibition by alcohol, like others say, they work together and were contemplating sharing a house, that tells me she felt comfortable around him, she made a long series of decisions to put herself in that situation and that would need to be addressed, also an STD test is in order (you have one done too just in case). Based on your relation dynamic of being apart for long periods of times, not married and no kids, I would let her go, it's evident this has been festering and could continue to trigger you every time she goes to work or during the next NGO or company party/getaway.

The facts, as you relate them, certainly indicate rape occurred. This sounds like a replay of the Brock Turner incident almost completely. I tend to be pretty jaded about the old "convenient memory loss" excuse but in this case.. ehhhh maybe? Again, I'm going on what you have posted here. She should have at least seen HR.

With that said, alcohol can relax inhibitions, but it can't make the drinker confuse right and wrong. Of course if a woman is TRULY blackout drunk, the guy was effectively having sex with a passed out woman, and that's rape in my book.

I would at least extend the benefit of the doubt with her, and suggest she attend AA.

GoQuiet,

Sorry you are here......this crap sucks.

I think you hit the problem on the head when you used the term ‘grey area’ as a description.

This is a tough situation.

First, some of my personal insight on your GF’s state.

I did some heavy partying earlier in life......drank WAY more than I should on too many occasions.

But based on those experiences, I will give you my POV.

No matter how drunk I ever have been, there is ZERO chance anyone could have gotten me to do anything I didn’t have an inclination to do beforehand......

If anything, I would get MORE stubborn about things there was no way I would do.

Now being truly blacked out is a game changer though.

I have never truly blacked out......I did have a couple of incidences where I initially thought I did......but then a person who was in my company would mention something and I would then remember.....in a hazy way.....the incident and say something like “Oh yeah......man I forgot about that.”

The memories were there......just really hazy, and sometimes it took another person jarring my memory for me to recall details.

I have friends who have said they have been truly blacked out......cannot remember ANYTHING even though they were talking and active at the time.....

So I know that it is possible for some people.

That said.....based on your first post, it sounds like your GF may have been more in a state like I have been.

If I read you right......she only remembered some details, like the kiss, after her memory was jogged when talking to her companions that night.

So the memory was there......she just needed to be reminded of it for recall.

In contrast like I said.....my friends who have claimed full on blackouts have NO memories, despite hearing about them later.

I would suppose that, since BAC will constantly fluctuate in the body as it digests and processes alcohol over time, it could be possible to be shifting back and forth over the threshold of being truly blacked out.

But you will never know how much she truly remembers about the incident......you will either have to choose to believe her or not.

That is something you are just going to have to accept if you want to R with her.

Was it rape?

Well.....your GF was definitely in a state where consent is questionable.

What was OM’s state though?

If he was equally inebriated, then rape becomes much more difficult to identify....

If 2 EQUALLY drunk people engage in sex, neither says no or tries to physically stop.....is it rape if one wakes up in the morning and really regrets it?

I think we would find a range of opinions on that, with points on both sides.

But in your situation, I would tend to say yes it was.

OM appears to have a very clear memory of what happened......he was not anywhere near as drunk as your GF......and that means he definitely should have recognized how blasted she was, and refrained from sex altogether.

He might have been tipsy, but it does NOT seem like he was so out of it himself that he couldn’t have recognized the level of your GF’s drunkenness.

He took advantage.......and definitely should have known she was in no state to give consent.

If everything she's telling you is the truth, she was raped. She was in no shape to make a consciously choice to have sex with anyone. To be honest, I believe her. I was admin for many years and had to process the chapter paperwork for soldiers that date raped women and other soldiers. It happens more than you know. Sounds like her sweetmate is a predator.

If there was any part of her that willingly or carelessly wanted to have sex with this guy, she would not have told you what happened immediately. She did not wait a day, a week, or a month; she woke up and tearfully told you without a moment's thought. We never see that here. That is a sign of honesty, accountability, trustworthiness, and loyalty--even in the face of potentially devastating consequences to herself. If you can't get over it that is ok, but you do have a lot to work with here compared to most of us.

eta: Many, many men take advantage of very drunk women. We women do mess up with alcohol, and then we pay a very high price. A female suffers when a person has access to her body against her will, even if she was unconscious. The only way I've been able to get a male to understand is to imagine if another male gained access to his body against his will and how he would feel after that act has been forced on him, conscious or unconscious. That is a fair comparison to how we women feel. It's violating. Something has been taken from us and we can't get it back, regardless of a rape charge. This happens to more women than I could ever name. One particular time in college it only did not happen to me becsuse one boy stood up to a couple of others and protected me while I was passed out. I am forever grateful for his empathy and courage; he saved me from a lifetime of anguish and shame. These situations literally happen to women every day, so your girlfriend's tale is more than plausible. Coupled with her immediate confession, it is almost certain.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 2:50 AM, June 26th (Friday)]

First off, coming from someone who knows (personally), your GF has a drinking problem. Drinking to blackout is not normal, even if it's isolated, and it's a problem. She needs to get help and get away from booze. I was never an alcoholic by any clinical definition, but I clearly had a "problem" with booze, notably binge drinking, which is exactly what this sounds like. Address the big issue first, drinking. Trust me, you can have a very good, fulfilling and nice life without spending time in a drunken haze.

Now, on to the rest of it. She told you immediately, that's great. You had no way to find out, that's even better. This is about as "good" as it can be with a cheating partner. That said, it doesn't mean that you can/will or should live with it, that's a decision you have to make for yourself. There's no shame in saying "it's a deal breaker" and moving on. There's also no shame in staying and trying to fix it. It's entirely up to you, but, from your story, there are a lot of positives to build on if you do try to fix it. Many of us here are dealing with A's that went on for a long time, were discovered, and dealt with a lot of lying from our spouses, in many cases for years, before the truth came out. That does a lot of damage to trust, damage that's not done in your case.

Am I coming at this from the wrong angle? Despite her taking responsibility, I've read so much on the grey area surrounding alcohol impairment and consent. It seems to me that this situation epitomises the greyness of the issue, highlighting someone acting completely without thought and out of character due to high quantities of alcohol. Due to the act and how she's recalled events I've found myself being quite hard on her, but the ambiguity of it makes me feel like perhaps I shouldn't be?

Let me stop you right there. Yes, you should be "hard" on her. Despite all this talk of rape, it's almost certain that your GF willingly participated in a drunken ONS with another drunken man. If, "I was drunk" is a "get out of jail free" card for an A, well, I know a lot of guys who need to go tell their wives "You need to stop blaming me, I was drunk" and move on. I'm sure they will be happy, but it also is completely ridiculous to assume that removes their culpability in the matter. Tell you what, go drink 12 drinks as fast as you can, then get into your car and cause a wreck. See how sympathetic the cops are when you tell them "I'm drunk, therefore not responsible for the awful things I just did". Let me clue you in, they aren't going to say "Oh, you're blacked out; I'm so sorry, here, let me help cut you out of the car and get you home". If you're responsible for your actions blacked out driving, or blacked out fighting, or blacked out doing, well, anything, you're equally responsible blacked out having sex. Note, I do want to say, "blacked out" and "passed out" are ENTIRELY different, but it sounds like your situation is "blacked out" which, of course, is the most common situation you deal with when we're talking about these drunken episodes. For all we know, the guy could have been blacked out too, some people appear "fine" blacked out (sadly, me), some people appear "fall over drunk" blacked out. Don't assign intent or malice where simple "dumb things while drinking" is the most likely explanation.

However, when someone gets to the stage of having a blackout they have a blood alcohol level of at least .18, at this stage an individual is removed from their right mind with regards to judgement, memory and decision-making. Therefore I'm of the stance that what happens to an individual in this state becomes a lot more situational than conscious. The individual is of course responsible for not getting in to this state, but shit happens in new scenarios and people end up consuming more than intended. I think if something happens when in this state, but there hasn't been a build up of suspect behaviour prior when less drunk, it more highlights an issue with associated with extreme alcohol consumption then the true nature of an individual.

I agree with you. Although, do some more reading, .18 (or .20, also commonly cited) isn't a "hard line". Some people (again, me), black out MUCH lower than that. Some don't blackout at all (until they pass out). There's just no way to tell, we all react differently, I've blacked out below the legal limit before, I know I have because I know exactly how much I drank the night before (1 bottle of wine over a few hours) and I had a very foggy memory when I woke up and couldn't piece the night together. A bottle of wine over a long dinner at my weight won't get me over .08, but I still blacked out.

As you say at the very end, the big issue here for your GF is she has a drinking problem. The big issue for you is can you heal and recover from what she did to you while drunk? Only you can answer the 2nd question, but NO WAY I'd be staying around unless she was taking the out of control drinking seriously. That needs to stop, immediately, for you to have any measure of safety in this relationship.

I ham going to share this to show you how it is possible it is not rape.

I have a very low tolerance to alcohol. Black out drunk after 1 beer is possible. My friends who have seen me black out drunk tell me I don’t call down or appear completely inebriated. I can carry on a conversation and appear rational.

It is possible your GF made a drunken choice to have sex with another drunken male. Two drunk people having consensual sex.

The Brock case the girl was unconscious. Incapable of consent. Big difference. Your GF made a bad choice to drink too much. She doesn’t know any details to assert or allege rape.

The more important question is - do you think you can accept this and reconcile?

I have a very low tolerance to alcohol. Black out drunk after 1 beer is possible. My friends who have seen me black out drunk tell me I don’t call down or appear completely inebriated. I can carry on a conversation and appear rational.

Same here. You and I would be a fun bunch at a bar; just need a 3rd person there to tell us WTF happened after the first drink.

The more important question is - do you think you can accept this and reconcile?

Exactly.

Also, of note, when I'm "blackout" drunk and appear "fine" to the people around me, I am generally making reasonably good decisions. For example, I've never tried to drive in that state. Never been in a fight. Yes, I'm blacked out, but, no, I'm not acting "completely out of character" and doing things that I'd "never do" sober. I'm doing things I might think better of sober, but, those things are things that I want to do but don't when I consider all the consequences. If I sleep with someone when I'm blacked out, it's because I wanted to sleep with that person. Might NEVER have acted on it sober, in lots of cases, probably wouldn't, but the desire is there, it's not like my "type" suddenly changes, or I suddenly find myself attracted to another gender when I'm drunk. Like just about everyone, my standards become less stringent, but I can't recall a single "wakeup and see who's next to me" where I couldn't see what I found attractive about the person in the first place. Just something to think about/dig into with your GF, OK, you never would have done this without drinking so much (probably true), but, now that you did, what was it you liked/found attractive about him?

A few random thoughts. A claim of rape in this case would not hold up in any court in the world. Do not go down that rabbit hole. If she doesn’t remember much, how can she be sure she didn’t initiate the sex? How can you?

Alcohol is a disinhibitor. No doubt. Alcohol was freely imbibed. This is why voluntary intoxication is not a defense to any crime anywhere. Look at it this way. If she had commandeered a cab and run over a child would it be ok?

Blackouts are real. But almost always involve deep alcoholics. Her claims of lack of memory may or may not be a convenient excuse. Lack of memory is rare at .18.

The real issue is what exactly in the hell she thought she was doing that night getting smashed with a bunch of strangers. Naivety is not a good excuse fo a 25 year old.

My wife did something like this at the same age. I got the same story. I was lonely, I was drunk. The real answer is that she felt like it. A little morning after guilt didn’t fix much.

I not telling you to dump her. I am telling you this is a stain that will not go away. Ever. So take this into consideration.

[This message edited by longsadstory1952 at 8:56 AM, June 26th (Friday)]

The real issue is what exactly in the hell she thought she was doing that night getting smashed with a bunch of strangers. Naivety is not a good excuse fo a 25 year old.

^^ This.

Getting "smashed" should end when you leave college. Getting drunk with strangers of the opposite sex is a HORRIBLE idea for anyone in a committed relationship or marriage. The real "warning sign" here is out of control drinking, the sleeping with other people just comes as part of that problem.

T/J

The real issue is what exactly in the hell she thought she was doing that night getting smashed with a bunch of strangers. Naivety is not a good excuse fo a 25 year old.

One of the big issues in dealing with sexual crimes, domestic abuse and such is the level of blame placed on the victim. Both self-blame and social blame; She shouldn’t have worn revealing clothes, she shouldn’t have walked through the park, she shouldn’t have offered a kiss, she shouldn’t have been so drunk, she shouldn’t have lead him on...

Replace the “she” with “I” and that’s what the victim is thinking.

We infidelity victims often fall into the same group: Maybe I should be more attentive, maybe I’m bad in bed, maybe I should have spent more time at home. At the same time we fear others are saying no wonder she cheated – he’s never home, he is so aloof, he’s fat…

I am NOT stating this was rape or that she’s a victim. I really don’t think I have the info required to reach that conclusion. By her own admittance she consented, yet she doesn’t remember… The OM an acquaintance? Well… most date-rapists are acquaintances… There ARE roofie-symptoms here but then – it’s easy to hide behind a rape-blame cape.

What is clear is that there are some major issues here that need to be dealt with.

We can't know if your GF was raped or not. Even if she was drugged, it's hard to imagine the guy getting convicted for raping her at this point.

The ONS is less of a concern for me than her drinking. She was with new acquaintances, and that's when she chooses to get really drunk? Because she feels safe with these new acquaintances? I'm with RIO: that looks like a drinking problem - especially since you brought it up before she even started this new job.

I've gotten drunk when I didn;t intend to - I once thought the contents of a punchbowl at a party was non-alcoholic, since that was the norm at that time and place. It was delicious, but definitely alcoholic, and I got very drunk indeed. But your GF knew she was drinking alcohol, and she refused to control her intake.

At 25, she may just e immature and not an alcoholic, but she definitely has a problem, and nothing you or she does about the ONS will be effective unless she figures out how to drink without giving up control of herself.

She sounds like she may be remorseful. What is her thinking about her drinking?

She can earn your trust back. It won't be the blind trust you might have given her up to her ONS, but no one is worthy of blind trust.

On the drinking issue:

Does she have a pattern of getting hammered?

I have shared this several times here on SI:

One of my W best friends is a recovering alcoholic. Been sober for +20 years. She didn’t drink all the time and not even often per year. But when she did drink then in too many instances she ended up waking in some strangers bed. This didn’t go well with her husband (ironically they divorced due to his affairs…).

This friend told us that she was meeting regularly with a women-only AA group where most had the same story, the same drinking pattern. Drink until they were totally hammered and then have sex with the flavor of the day. Or not.

She has also told me something another alcoholic confirmed and I have seen with a lot of heavy drinkers: If I were to down a bottle of vodka I would pass out. These alcoholics seem to be missing the Emergency Turn Off lever built into most of us. This is in line with theories that alcoholics are alcoholics because booze interacts differently to them than us.

I’m not going to offer her an “I’m an alcoholic” excuse. She’s still responsible for her actions. But I’m putting this on the table to help get to why she did what she did. So once again: Does she have a pattern of getting hammered?

Malcolm Gladwell has a podcast called Revisionist History which if you know his work is really good as you would expect. Search out an episode that delves into "blackout" drinking and the case of Brock Turner the Stanford student that raped a girl at an off-campus party and got a lenient sentence that caused outrage. There is a lot of good information and research in there on blackout drinking and what it looks like. Spoiler alert is that in a lot of cases nobody knows the person is that drunk. Might help you process this to hear the stories there and the facts on this.