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After denying his affair the entire time I was fighting for our marriage, because he said he needed to know what it's like to be "alone" and that it wasn't at all about her, he added a clause in our separation agreement that protects her from being sued in any way.

Meanwhile, he's trying to leave me with nothing and has treated me with nothing but disrespect after an 11 year relationship.

What does your lawyer have to say about it?

Well I'd just drag my editing pen right through that. Seriously, use it as a bargaining tool.

What could you sue her for?

I’d use it to get what you want. I wouldn’t sue AP, as it takes too much time and money... but if that’s something he wants, agree to it and get the house or the car or whatever he’s got that you want.

Just my 2 cents. Ask your divorce lawyer what they think.

How wonderful that AP weaseled herself into your marriage and now your divorce!

Something like that could make the agreement invalid.

He cannot limit your rights like that. It might be a completely invalid clause.

As an example many cheaters have the BS sign agreements that state the wife will not get or claim social security retirement benefits against the XH’s earnings. It is illegal to put in a divorce decree. The XW is entitled to file for those benefits. Nothing the XH can do.

Know your rights.

If you do agree to that clause please make it worth your while.

My lawyer and I have a call set up later this week to discuss their proposed changes. I'm interested to see what he thinks of them completely removing me from getting any alimony or retirement and then adding that.

I didn't even know I could until they added the clause but apparently I could sue for "criminal conversation" or "alienation of affection".

Definitely ask your lawyer if you can sue AP for that. If it's an option and if you're interested in it, I believe you would be able to use evidence of this clause in your favor because why would he even need to specify that if a civil suit wasn't a possibility? Makes him look guilty.

In a civil case, you only need to get the jury or judge on your side and you don't have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that AP is responsible like you would have to prove in a criminal case. There have been BSes on SI who have won an alienation of affection lawsuit. It's usually not about the money but to put something on record outing AP to anyone who does a background check on them. Of course, it may not be worth your time but after 11 years, you should be entitled to something especially if you made career sacrifices for him and it sounds like his attempt to include this clause may lead to giving you some leverage.

If you live in a state that allows that, than you can sue, but you have to have undeniable prove and evidence of things in order for that to happen. I live in North Carolina, and my AP wife hired a PI and had the proof, she also was an attorney, and still chose not to sue me for that (she would have had to file for divorce and say the affair is what ended the marriage). There are several reasons it wouldn't work. Your marriage also had to be in good standing prior to the affair.

I would look into all your options with your lawyer.

I am in NC as well.

I don't have proof of a physical fair (I only have proof of an emotional), so if I actually decided to, I don't think I'd be able to sue for criminal conversations.

I could possible go for alienation of affection and can 100% provide proof of a good standing/happy marriage before his coworker/AP started working with him.

It has 3 year year statue of limitations so you have time. Thankfully I'm now outside of that window. My husband had the option to sue as well. Is the AP married?

Talk to your attorney. Know all your rights and options.

The fact that he even suggests this tells me there is something there that makes this a real fear for AP and WH. Where there's smoke....

For that reason alone, it may be worth going after her with all you can. If it weren't relevant this would have never been brought up.

Only you will know if it will be worth it in the end.

As much as I love the thought of tearing their world apart, I dunno if I would sue even if I could (my state doesn't have it). I guess maybe I am in the minority, but... what price freedom? Suing means a lot more interaction and time spent on posow than you have already lost to her. If you can't get what you need out of him I guess you could certainly use the threat of legal action to leverage your stbxwh though.

After my experience, I literally didn't care wtf it took to get him gone or how much it cost. Any time and energy spent on the was well worth it just to get free of the madness.

So why not sue her?

Honestly – what you or he wants in D isn’t really an issue. There are rules and regulations in place that sort-of guarantee you both certain rights. He can deny you alimony, your share of his pension and so on, but if your state-laws state you are entitled to a share of any of these things then what he wants isn’t relevant.

I would seriously look into using the sue-threat as a lever to get a better deal.

She is not married, Pink. She dumped her boyfriend to pursue my husband.

People in hell want ice water, too.

Just because he wants it doesn't mean he will get it. Talk everything through with your attorney. Definitely you are entitled to alimony and whatever pension/retirement. That is the law. You might be able to leverage not suing her to get something you want.

This is all a big negotiation, and that's why you have an attorney.

It's important to remember that this is now a business transaction.

Cat

I’m just envisioning this conversation. In my mind I see it taking place over a really large mahogany conference table, with well-dressed attorneys sitting beside their clients:

About that clause 4.b.2 “Thou shalt not sue the skank”. I didn’t really think that was possible, but seeing it made me realize this state has an active alienation of affection law. Since your client seems determined to short-change me and we both wish to get this divorce over as fast as possible then I refuse to include that clause. I might be willing to accept the present financial terms since I have a realistic expectation of recovering my losses if I sue OW.

Lean back, smile and file your nails.

Bigger.

Meanwhile, he's trying to leave me with nothing and has treated me with nothing but disrespect after an 11 year relationship.

Your statement is the battle cry of nearly everyone that's on SI. Empower yourself and do not give an inch further than you are required by law.

Douchecanoe gave up his right to "pee on his territory" when he marked another woman. He doesn't decide the law the court and a good attorney do.

He can wish for unicorns, fairy tale Princesses, but his castle has a moat that is filled with slime, pestilence and legal obligations. You aren't required to extend an ounce of courtesy to the "lady" (gag) in waiting.

My Ex narcissist also tried to dictate the terms of what I would get. That resulted in a legal version of "thou shall not pass." He quickly found out that his grandiose edicts from his throne of infidelity mattered about as much as a pile of horse shit. The law smite him with everything but a bolt of lightening.

I wanted to sue his instant wife for a variety of things she was doing in regards to a marital asset of ours. In the end my attorney reminded me to focus on the big picture and not the little one. The path to suing the OW is filled with potholes. It might be gratifying to do, but it's very costly and will not generate enough gain to be worth the cost in most cases. Disregard this if she bought a Lamborghini.

My lawyer and I have a call set up later this week to discuss their proposed changes. I'm interested to see what he thinks of them completely removing me from getting any alimony or retirement and then adding that.

Think of this as a business transaction from this point forward and remove emotion. Once you do that then you can make decisions that are in your best interest financially. You are not shackled to memories when deciding your future and any money you are entitled to. Do not let him play on your sympathy or empathy.

Get EVERY penny you are entitled to. Let him figure out how he will pay his bills. He certainly wasn't thinking of you nor was she when they dropped you figuratively at the bus stop.

This may be a defining moment for your EX. He may have an inkling what's headed his way and he's trying to get out of the way of the train that's about to roll over him. He's attempting to give himself an escape route with the OW. He protects her then he has a softer landing.

Let her get her own Karma. Trust me she's going to get a dose of it that she will never forget. Use her as leverage to get what you need. Be absolutely draconian about it. Be willing to turn the screws if it benefits you in any way. You'll see how long he protects her when it comes down to dollars and cents.

He may well abandon her like a old couch with bed bugs when it comes down to money. I would love to hear this conversation in real time when your attorney explains the law to him.

I can think of four reasons to ask for it.

1. Misdirection

2. To emotionally charge you (emotionally charged people don't always make the best decisions)

3. Planning for transfer of assets or income to the AP at some point.

4. Sometimes you get "X" just by asking even if it seems ridiculous.

Take a deep breath.

Plan a clause around it if there is a carrot offered, or cross it out.

[This message edited by BobPar at 1:34 PM, July 9th, 2020 (Thursday)]

Thank you all for the advice. I feel like I've been going back and forth in my head.