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Wow. Just freaking wow! She used a Holy text to justify or celebrate adultery? And she doesn't get exactly what about this???? He who believes but does not do, does not believe, I'm guessing. There is literally no box in my head I can put this...

My WH and his first AP often quoted the Bible and thanked God for bringing them to each other. People are stupid.

How do I get her to understand what I feel each time she turns a page, and there’s a reminder of their deception?

I think you know the answer to your rhetorical question: you don't. At this point, after all these years, what you see is what you get. You either live with it, or not.

Niceguy25 stop wondering what's going on in her head. The Bible needs to go, you know that so what are you waiting for?

This is emotional abuse . You should write a little note on the front page of her Bible .

“ i forgave you for adultery and I hope you are reading these passages with true remorse if not shame otherwise you are paving a path to hell for yourself “

Or

“ God save us all from the fake love of a woman committed to adultery”

Or

“ even after being discarded i remain loyal to my adulterous lover just married to my husband . What type of christian does that make me “

And here is my more measured response

You should tell her that her re living the affair is unacceptable and you find it very disrespectful to you .

Here is the thing though I always think the correct response to this kind of cruelty is IC for the dis respected spouse . The real question is why are you in this marriage ? Why she is a twit is secondary

People stay in marriages for any number of reasons its certainly not a third persons job to pass judgement on that ... but knowing why you are in this relationship will give you clarity on how you should proceed in the face of clear contempt Contempt is usually something that increases with time , its not a passing phase .

[This message edited by siracha at 7:53 AM, August 20th (Thursday)]

I'm the same age as you and can identify with the frustration of crafting a practical solution this late in life. You're tempted to run out the clock.

I recall her affair was never exposed to friends and family.

From your other posts she has a lot of respect in the community. Family and friends see your wife as a devout catholic and sweet, kind, generous and loving.

Saving souvenirs from her affair (including the bible notations) and sending him a birthday card 25 years later is not consistent with someone that is remorseful, feels shame or has any empathy for what she did to her husband.

Her behavior suggests that she believes that her staying married to you (her continued presence in your life) is fair compensation for your past & current pain.

In other words, knowing that you're plan B is the price you pay to be with her.

Therefore she not only lives a lie but her romantic fantasy continues (perhaps because she didn't experience the consequences of exposure).

You stayed for the kids and family harmony. You sacrificed a lot and have carried this burden by yourself long enough.

Talk to your IC about exposing her and how that may make you feel better or give you what you need to run out the clock.

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 9:23 AM, August 20th (Thursday)]

I obviously don't know anything about your WW's faith or belief system but if you feel she is truly remorseful I think she could be keeping the bible not as a trophy but more as a reminder of her shame.

By reading everyday she's reminding herself just how far she let herself fall.

I don't know, it's just another perspective.

Anyway it doesn't matter, you're not comfortable with her using the bible so it goes, end of story, no arguments.

I'm a minority of one from reading other's thoughts.

CAN ANY SINGLE BS CHANGE THAT THEIR SPOUSE NOT ONLY HAD POSITIVE FEELINGS FOR THEIR AP BUT HAD SEX WITH THEM AND WAS LIKELY EXHILARATED BY IT?

No. We may desperately want those to not be true but they are true. To expect things to be AS THEY CAN NOT BE is to perpetuate our own pain. These things, as awful as they are, must be accepted. And once accepted, then and only then can one rationally decide whether it was the ultimate deal breaker. If this decision is made emotionally rather than rationally, it may very well be the wrong decision either way.

Her Bible simply indicates how massively conflicted she was, torn in a mighty struggle. As much hell as she put you through, she was likely in one herself.

Sure, you have every right to be hurt, devastated, angry, and to want to purge all this from your life BUT WILL THROWING AWAY HER BIBLE FIX ANY OF THIS FOR YOU?

It wouldn't for me.

My own path to peace slow as it was, was to accept that people cheat sometimes, that my wife did, that it was enormously positive and exhilarating for her when she did and that the waning of affection and attraction toward the spouse of manybyears is normal over time and not necessarily a reflection on the BS although it could be, for example if the BS let themselves go physically over time or had their own really turn-off aspects like excessive anger, neediness, laziness, selfishness, and the list goes on. When I saw my self in the preceding sentence and accepted that yes, I DID bear at least some responsibility for the deterioration of our relationship, I owned my part of it and eventually, with time and difficulty accepted it all. ALL. Honestly, I really didn't like what I saw about myself. Not minimizing the wreckage that a BS goes through not to mention the marriage. My experience with my wife's A and the aftermath was the worst thing I've ever faced.

I couldn't see any of these things in the early months because my pain and anger put me in a largely reactive and irrational place. It takes time to move away from there and sometimes wss one step forward and two (or three) steps back.

It is natural that our focus when in the worst of our hurt is on the betrayal and the OP. As long as we linger there though, moving away from the pain is hard if not impossible.

I encourage you to work to regain your own best place of calm and rationality and when you are there, to first try to understand why it all happened, to accept the why and everything else including your role, and only then decide your path forward. If you can come to this place, your decisions will serve you and not be likely to be things you regret years from now.

Best wishes to you my friend! I know all too well how you feel. Know that this agony will pass over time.

It may seem like it's up to her as to how long it will take but it is actually up to you.

[This message edited by Seneca at 1:51 PM, August 20th (Thursday)]

I encourage you to work to regain your own best place of calm and rationality and when you are there, to first try to understand why it all happened, to accept the why and everything else including your role....

Apologies if my post appears to hijack the thread, but to respond to the quoted post, I think there are many betrayed spouses that have made some semblance of peace with their WS and M, while also firmly standing on the position that they had no role in the infidelity, cheating, and betrayals of the WS. I think there are many BS's that acknowledge a role in marital conflicts and challenges, while noting that the choice to cheat, as a byproduct of the difficulties, was equally available to both, but only one of the two made that choice.

I think that your position, which in my view is not unreasonable, suits you to the perspective you have landed on:

I've done a cultural 180 and decided that it is not the ultimate deal breaker. And that I have the same rights to do the same things although I am not exercising that right. Might I at some point? I don't know and have no plans to but the marital contract, being broken wouldn't be the obstacle it was before. That is something SHE gets as fallout from the affair.

This philosophical differences may be a reason for why you would be less troubled by the notes in her Bible. It seems to be a position and perspective that is working for you. I don't think the preference to remove the bible due to the references of a former AP is not much different than not willing to allow a picture book of memories to be kept in a WS's desk. To remove it would't pretend that it never happened. Maybe more a stake in the ground, born out of a new found position of strength and confidence by the BS.

I think your post reinforces that there is no one right approach for all unintended recipients of the trauma of infidelity.

[This message edited by DIFM at 1:21 PM, August 20th, 2020 (Thursday)]

It is not accurate (DIFM) to assume that I philosophically eschew the Bible and the egregiousness of the WS obvious hypocrisy of what she wrote and apparently felt.

Had my wife done the same, it would have equally been yet another sticking point for me.

But hypocrisy is hypocrisy and whether or not it involves the Bible, it is present in infidelity. Pretending to love the BS while counting the moments until the opportunity to roll in the sack with a lover presents itself again is the greatest hypocrisy, no?

That the WS turned to her Bible and did what she did speaks to me not only of her obvious hypocrisy but of the enormous inner conflict one couldn't help but experience unless she is a total fraud.

My point remains, that going through various ways of demanding she throw it away or in other ways disavow what she felt is a form of rugsweeping in my opinion. So she's supposed to pretend what she felt didn't happen so as to sooth him? I simply say it won't work. We all have to learn to self soothe and it isn't easy, at least it wasn't for me.

BTW, for all those who justify throwing their WS under the bus with Biblical quotes that condemn adultery (and rightfully so), consider what Jesus said to the woman caught in adultery...."I do not condemn you but go and sin no more.."

and consider that David fathered Solomon with a woman he'd committed adultery with and that David, Solomon, and Bathsheba were all subsequently blessed by God....and finally that the entire book of Hosea is about adultery and the BS eventually reconciling after grievous acts on her part as symbolic of what God would eventually do with "adulterous" Israel.

Just saying it's not quite so cut and dried and yhat the real objective here is to MOVE PAST THE PAIN AND ANGST TOWARD HEALING AND PEACE and focusing on the acts of the transgression at some point become hindrances to that objective.

I understand the pain. I was intermittently suicidal and broke a bone in my hand by hitting a wall in rage. I cried. I went from fierce independence to pathetic neediness, sometimes in a short period of time. Literally I was at the ragged edge of sanity at times. I understand all this. I'm not minimizing it but rubbing the WSs nose in it isn't going to move ANYONE forward. If her acts were deal breakers, then he should D her and move on to healing....but I cautioned against making such a decision while in a bad emotional place.

Isn't healing the most important thing?

Not retaliation or even reconciliation IMO because maybe the M isn't meant to be.

Lingering at the places of pain won't bring healing.

All of you make so many great points and I am reading and re reading each of your responses. I can not destroy or throw away her Bible that was given to her by her hometown Priest at her confirmation and is filled with notations from age 12 to age 65 including those associated with her affair. If it doesn’t happen as a result of her recognizing how I feel, then our attempt at reconciliation is not real. I am going to bring it up one more time, and if there is not some shared resolution, then I have my answer and will move forward with a new plan for my life. I needed to hear that my discomfort was justified and now that I read your responses, I know my feelings are shared and affirmed.

Seneca,

I think you make some excellent points.

However, I do think as a WS that perspective over ones actions should be gained. What was once something pursued and enjoyed should be looked at through a different lens. Personally, I do not think a WS that's remorseful would not understand the need to remove these reminders, not just for her husband but for herself.

The result of an ended affair brings a lot of shame and humiliation as it should. Reflection on what the affair truly was is an important aspect to WS taking a good look at themselves and what will need to be changed moving forward. And, it's important that the WS gets completely on the BS's team. Refusing to get rid of reminders of the AP states "I am not on your side, I still care more about how I feel than how I have made you feel". I have a hard time digesting that aspect of what you are saying even though I do agree with many of the other things you are stating.

Her Bible simply indicates how massively conflicted she was, torn in a mighty struggle. As much hell as she put you through, she was likely in one herself.

Sure, you have every right to be hurt, devastated, angry, and to want to purge all this from your life BUT WILL THROWING AWAY HER BIBLE FIX ANY OF THIS FOR YOU?

It wouldn't for me.

'

Let's cut through the word salad: He asked her to get rid of it. She didn't. Absent the spiritual content it would be like holding on to love letters from the AP. It's a form of continued disrespect and dishonor and wayward thinking.

BUT WILL THROWING AWAY HER BIBLE FIX ANY OF THIS FOR YOU?

It wouldn't for me.

Well then you are a better person than I because that book would light my fire pit up.

How hard is it to get a new fucking Bible?

Isn't healing the most important thing?

Not retaliation or even reconciliation IMO because maybe the M isn't meant to be.

I completely agree. If she wants to keep it, I would say demanding that she get rid of it would solve nothing. If she did not understand how it makes her BH feel unsafe, that might be a reason for the BS to seek a path of healing, if she did understand the the pain it may cause but still preferred to keep it, that too may be cause for the BS to seek a path of healing.

Retaliation serves no healing purpose. And you can't force empathy or humility. But you can change course if your WS is not willing or able to do what you need to feel safe. That was my primary point. Of course, the decision to stay in the pain or get out is ultimately one for the BS to make.

[This message edited by DIFM at 3:17 PM, August 20th, 2020 (Thursday)]

All of you make so many great points and I am reading and re reading each of your responses. I can not destroy or throw away her Bible that was given to her by her hometown Priest at her confirmation and is filled with notations from age 12 to age 65 including those associated with her affair. If it doesn’t happen as a result of her recognizing how I feel, then our attempt at reconciliation is not real. I am going to bring it up one more time, and if there is not some shared resolution, then I have my answer and will move forward with a new plan for my life. I needed to hear that my discomfort was justified and now that I read your responses, I know my feelings are shared and affirmed.

I would not care if it was given to her by the Pope himself, she tainted that bible, but then again just the birthday card incident after so many years would have been the straw the broke the camel's back for me, this is so "in your face", she reads it every day, if a book that can easily be replaced by another with the exact same content is more important to her than your feelings, there's your answer.

I would probably hide it first and put a new bible in its place then when she asks, tell her you gave it away/burned it, that you had asked her many times to get rid of it because of the triggers of her huge betrayal. If she starts a fight and makes a big deal out of it then file for D and return the bible to her in the same package along with D the papers.

This is the way of the WWs. Ive learned from my kids that my WW and her AP (they live together now), force the kids to pray before meals. My WW, throughout our entire marriage was an atheist. She still doesn't believe, but somehow, they kids are now forced to pray before dinner.

What a fucking joke. These people hide behind their religion, all the while, committing one of the biggest sins in the book. You see how ironic and hypocritical this is. She needs a bath in holy water, STILL. You've given her plenty of grace, and this is still how she behaves. She's still hiding behind that veil.

To NiceGuy25, the bible is associated with the OM and it's presence in his home is the continued presence and invasion of his sanctuary by the OM.

I don't care how much value Niceguy25's WW has attached to the bible, if that value is higher than the value of her Marriage, then given her Adulterous past actions, she is not deserving of the marriage.

[This message edited by DictumVeritas at 3:45 PM, August 20th (Thursday)]

She needs a bath in holy water, STILL.

Maybe a dunk tank full of Purell.