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Unfortunately she still sees the affair fondly and she wants to keep those memories. I would be hard on this one. "I see that you do not care or love me as much as you loved and cared for the POSAP. So if you will keep this bible, with a reminder of your affair written in it, then you still are in love with him and I need to file for divorce." I am being honest. She can rewrite every note she has in that bible so she wont lose that. But the rest of the bible has to go. I will be honest. With her mentioning and talking about that affair so openly in that bible, it is tainted. Why would anyone want that it when in the notes she is talking about an affair? No that bible has to go. I suggest destroying it. Another thing you can do is buy her a new bible. Have her write all of her notes in the new bible that is not affair related. If she refuses, I would file for separation. Just being totally honest.

If you study martial arts, you are taught that if someone pulls a gun on you and asks for money, or the watch your grandfather gave you on his deathbed, you hand it over. Nothing, absolutely nothing is worth losing your life for. Chances are your dead grandfather would tell you to hand it over from the grave.

If she is really remorseful absolutely no material thing should be worth losing her marriage for.

Retaliation serves no healing purpose.

Good googly moogly how is asking her to get rid of the Bible "retaliation"?

I'm gobsmacked by the responses in this thread.

She’s keeping her Bible for the same reason she kept his cards and letters for decades... she still loves him and cherishes him.

Decide if you can live with that because even if she does get rid of the Bible he will always have a place in her heart.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 8:13 PM, August 20th (Thursday)]

I don’t know why she’s keeping the Bible, but I do know that she’s not getting rid of it, and it bothers her husband, who she betrayed.

It is offensive and painful to him.

She obviously does not care about this enough to fix the problem.

It appears that this Bible that she has, with these notations, means more to her than her relationship with her spouse.

She is sending a message, about his relative worth, in her eyes, the only question is what will he do about it.

The WW in this case can't help how she feels. No one can. Expectations by any BSs including me that our WS NOT feel how they feel is , I'm sorry, IDIOTIC. And also, IMO wallowing in our pain and self pity after betrayal blows up our world ..... after a certain amount of time, different for each person of course at some point this stops being about the original betrayal and starts being about emotional instability or immaturity on the part of the BS. This applied 100% to ME.

I wallowed in that very pain and self pity. oh poor, poor me! She betrayed me, lied to me....and then I would fill in all the graphic details, especially the ones that hurt THE MOST. After all, as some in this thread have said, we BSs have the right to be butt hurt and to expect our cheating spouse to soothe us and MAKE OUR PAIN GO AWAY. But they really can't do that, can they?

And then one day, a very experienced and kind counselor who was completely acquainted with just how much pain and indignation and anger a BS feels....said these words in response to my continued inability to get past it by saying: You will never get past this until you GROW UP EMOTIONALLY AND AT THIS POINT YOUR ANGST IS MORE SELF INFLICTED than what she did. Essentially, this shock therapy made me decide to stop being a martyr and victim and to pick my ass up and move forward, with her or without her. Time to stop the wavering and make some decisions!

Many years ago, in a job that was very desirable in many ways but also frustrating because of some inherent supply chain issues that should have been solved but weren't, after complaining to my boss and stating that my frustration was making me consider leaving, my wise boss who'd already made it clear I was a valued employee said: You could do that, leave. You'll be missed. Or, you can stay and be valued if you can put this aside. WHAT I WILL NOT ALLOW IS FOR YOU TO STAY AND CONTINUE TO COMPLAIN. Accept the reality of the situation and make the best of it OR LEAVE IT.

Aren't these the only options that really make sense?

If I understand this situation correctly, these wounds are old ones. I (and no one else either) is in a position to assign blame to either the WS or BS when years have passed. It is certain that many, many actions and behaviors by both partners have occurred since the time that the A was happening and the Bible was being written in. It seems to me that THESE MANY BEHAVIORS are the ones that matter most in regard to the current status of the R, not an artifact of the original betrayal.

BTW, if I had been the WW I would have put the Bible away years ago and gotten a new one but that she did not is her choice to make and not mine. And yes, it might be that she harbors feelings for her AP still but it's also possible that this Bible is important to her for many other reasons as the OP said.

None of us can or even should try to control or force our WSs to do ANYTHING but we do have the power to do whatever WE need to do to heal, self soothe, and attend to our own needs.

Just my opinion.

[This message edited by Seneca at 2:18 PM, August 21st (Friday)]

Baptist minister here, so as someone who values the Word highly...

She needs to lose that Bible, but more so the fond memories she has associated with the affair. Seneca has implied that you can’t deny previous powerful feelings. True, but you can be horrified by your wayward thinking and acting and feeling as someone you don’t wish to be, and instead reject all of that. That’s the start of true remorse. Someone feeling true remorse doesn’t send someone else a birthday card, nor keep a Bible or any other keepsake that has been so fouled by twisted thinking.

Niceguy, I’m not sure she has it in her. She still thinks of him fondly. Seneca is right. You can’t change her, and she refuses to be horrified and sickened by what she has done to you and herself. Highlighting a Bible doesn’t whitewash it. Burning the Bible is only a start. She needs to ask, “What else so I need to do so that my husband will feel safe and secure?” From what you’ve said, she never will.

If you can life with that, then you need to let it go, recognizing that THIS IS WHO SHE IS, and accept her for the flawed and broken person she is. Or you can demand better: from her and for yourself.

My thoughts are with you

[This message edited by Washashore at 4:25 PM, August 21st (Friday)]

I am a Christian. Not perfect at all for sure... I do however always go back to this:

There are 10 commandments. Just 10.

It does seem to be hard doesn't it? Just 10.

Funny how even after hundreds of thousands of years, just 10 still hold true. And humans break them, then try to figure out how to get away with it.

Weird how original sins work, huh? Moses and the almighty knew it back then as well. Its not new.

Seneca, whether or not the WW can control what she feels is irrelevant.... for that matter, so are the reasons she keeps her Bible, which is just one item among a collection of affair-related mementos she’s kept over the year.

NiceGuy can’t nor should he make her do anything but he absolutely can control what type of behavior he is willing to tolerate as a husband and that includes a choice as to whether or not he wants to stay with a woman who fondly hangs on to tokens of her betrayal of him.

How do I get her to understand what I feel each time she turns a page, and there’s a reminder of their deception? I don’t think she gets it, or she treasures those memories.

Long winded answer. I don’t know that it will be helpful, but because it’s a Bible, I thought I would write more.

How do you get her to understand? The only way you can get her to understand, is to identify the actual consequences of her behavior, not the behavior from 30 years ago, but her behavior from today.

If the only consequence of her behavior today are that you feel angst, reminders, and pain, because she won’t “give up“ relics of her affair. That has a different impact than if the consequences are that you calmly explain to her that the Bible needs to go, any relics of the affair relationship needs to go, and that if they do not go, then the marriage ends, and your relationship is over.

Or it can be some consequences short of that, that is all for you to decide.

My wife had two friends that were aware of her infidelity at the time, she stopped communicating with them after her confession, but it took her a while to “unfriend“ them from Facebook, and then she wasn’t very diligent about maintaining that status. I myself don’t know very much about Facebook, or how all of that works, but somehow they kept showing up on her list, meaning that she had not completely eliminated something.

About eight years after her confession, and the revelations about the friends, both of these friends within a 12 month period contacted her with on Facebook.

She briefly answered them and did not try to maintain contact. However, I kept getting messages because of an old Facebook account that I don’t use, and one thing led to another, one day I looked at her Facebook account and noticed both of these friends were still listed as friends.

Was I pissed off? Yes, very damned pissed off, as far as I’m concerned these people are dead to me, they need to be dead to anybody in my family, which is exactly what I told my FWS.

Dead people don’t communicate on Facebook.

The living don’t communicate with dead people on Facebook.

I had a conversation with my wife, I didn’t tell her what to do, but I did tell her what the consequences were, and what I was going to do, if they did not permanently get removed from Facebook, and if she did not immediately tell me if they try to reestablish contact in the future. I told her that anybody that she was involved with who knew anything about the affair, who had any material action, or withheld any information from me, or supported her behavior in any way shape or form, was to have no contact with my family.I told her that anybody that she was involved with who knew anything about the affair, if you had any material action, or withheld any information from me, or supported her behavior in anyway shape or form, was to have no contact with my family. I made it very clear to her that if she decided to maintain contact with them, that branch of my family was going to be cut off. Which, to be very specific, meant that I would divorce her, and as far as I was concerned if they were that important, I would never speak to her again, because I certainly was not going to speak to them again.

I don’t need people like that in my life, and if my wife is going to associate with people like that, I don’t need her in my life anymore either. When it comes to reminders, or relics as I called them, it’s pretty much the same.

Some people might find this sacrilegious, But if somebody was writing in a Bible about their affair, and describing their affair partner, and attributing different aspects of the affair, in the Bible, I would consider that very much like having a vibrator that you and your affair partner used with each other.

I know something about this, I know someone who is a preacher, who used their faith and religious convictions to justify fucking their secretary, divorcing their wife, breaking up their family, and creating all sorts of pain and suffering for their faithful and devoted spouse. I will never forget her calling me to talk to me, and me trying to reassure her, and the anguish in her voice, and the concern she had about someone she loved, someone who was lying to her, gaslighting her, lying to me, and lying to everybody else, then, in the end, using religion to justify it.

Unfortunately, I later learned exactly what kind of anguish she was going through. It’s been 20 some years, I can still remember walking around my house, on the phone, talking to her, but what I understand now, because of what my wife did to me, is just what she was really going through.

Here's an idea that might solve the problem. If the Bible has sentimental value to her aside from the AP, how about she take a bottle of White Out and cover up the notes she made. If whole paragraphs are highlighted, cut them off the page and replace them with new. She can find those passages online and print them out to replace the parts she cuts out.

When there's a will, there's a way.

And if she can't do at least that, then you have your answer.

I'm very sorry.

So I have somewhat read the responses. I agree this a spiritual thing and of course it needs to go. Sure, you can throw it away or burn . I did this with some things I refused to have in my house. Some is the issue with this is trust tj Rey. Can find a way to being out back in. There is still a stronghold that needs to be broken. Even if she does not understand how you feel she chooses to disrespect hoe you feel. This is a major red flag to me. She needs to break ALL TIES to him. I do not disagree with an ‘ultimatum my. My IC worded it this way. You “let your expectation be known and ask them to do it.in a given time frame. They make a choice. If they don’t do it then you have a consequence prepared. I think this issue deserves that for sure.

I've made my view clear on this and will simply add that it is my belief that as long as the OP or any other BSs put their focus on what their WS is or is not doing as some sort of requirement for their ability to move past this, they will stay stuck in the pain and anger.

Our healing does not depend on what they do or do not do. WE ARE IN CHARGE OF OUR OWN HEALING AND MUST OWN IT OURSELVES.

It is a waste of time to put the focus on them for OUR healing.

The RELATIONSHIP on the other hand is dependent on their actions to some degree but on our response to them nd our actions as well. At some point I stopped expecting my WS to fix what she couldn't do. One day I looked at my butt hurt semi pathetic self as I undoubtedly looked like to my WS and realized just how unattractive and even repulsive that was.

Would I want to be viewed like that if it was dating with a new partner? NO.

So I faked it til I made it, stopped the blaming and the oh poor me and put a smile on my face as well as I could and danged if I didn't start to feel better myself after awhile. And I owned my right to choose my own path, to stay or to go and started paying attention to what I needed which I was not good at.

BS works on their own healing. Ws may or may not work on theirs....we can't force them and if we try it will likely backfire. From a healed and rational place we can better decide whether to stay or go and choose the things that serve US.

Own your own happiness. No matter what.

[This message edited by Seneca at 3:23 PM, August 22nd (Saturday)]

Ok, here’s the update. I confronted her one last time about her Bible. It blew up in a big argument resulting in her stating she would burn it, that the references to him were not at this point positive memories, but reminders of her failure to our marriage and, as I Had pointed out, only 30 notations in over 1000 pages. I then pointed out that in 48 years together there’s not one notation with my initials vs 30 with his in 3 years together. That stunned her. I told her I understood the Bible covers 55+ years of her life, but for me is a trigger every time I see her use it. I offered her a new Bible of her choosing if she would NEVER use the old one in my presence again. She agreed and It has disappeared. New bible is ordered. She then apologized to me.

[This message edited by Niceguy25 at 6:09 PM, August 22nd (Saturday)]

I would suggest the following. It might be tough, but it could also get to the bottom of things:

Ask her to sit down with you and maybe your pastor and read each and every passage that refers to OM and to explain how it helps with dealing with failures to the marriage. See how someone that has studied the Bible reacts to her understanding of the passages.

I offered her a new Bible of her choosing if she would NEVER use the old one in my presence again. Sh agreed and I has disappeared. New bible is ordered. She then apologized to me.

Did it just "disappear" in a drawer ? I hope not, she offered to burn it, watch it burn together, would you be OK if she just put her love letters in a different part of the house ? again I hope not, make sure that trigger and those references to her POSOM are GONE forever, that's the least she could do, have her burn it in your presence and watch her reaction.

[This message edited by Buster123 at 4:31 PM, August 22nd (Saturday)]

Frankly, she sounds nuttier than a fruitcake.

Niceguy that's a positive move forward, well done.

Buster123...I haven’t looked for it but t I’m guessing it’s buried in a drawer either in her office or somewhere else in the house. Baby steps. It’s not visible to me, it’s not I my face, and to my knowledge she is not using it in her current Bible study. It ain’t see it yet ver again, it will vanish.

Going to be blunt her, so skip if you are not up to it.

It’s not visible to me, it’s not I my face, and to my knowledge she is not using it in her current Bible study. It ain’t see it yet ver again, it will vanish.

Living up to your username... and see where that got you on the long run...

She offered to burn it, then you capitulated, and gave her an 'out'. Am sure that this pattern has repeated itself in your M, and it has not worked well for you in your attempt to heal, so why do it again?

As it has been quoted before, and it still stands true:

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

You have always put the needs of your WW in front of yours, and when she did offer to destroy something that has been bothering you, you turn around and give-in to her wants.

Why do you do this to yourself? *not being sarcastic here, just curious*