SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

No - not her responsibility to 'satisfy him sexually' - I guess. In that case I guess it is not his responsibility to financially support her either.

And we wonder why there are jokes about marriage basically being legalized prostitution.

She had a newborn when he was cheating and with the threats, I presume threatening to get it elsewhere. Also not a turn-on.

Look, I have a high sex drive, but with a newborn I had practically zero sex drive. If my husband at the time had viewed sex as a need that he couldn't live without, I guess he would have just died from lack of it. Recovering from C-section surgery and tending to a newborn is a profoundly unsexy time for many reasons. At that time, I didn't feel it was my responsibility to meet his sexual needs anymore than I would have if I had been going through cancer treatments or whatever. It's a very well-known obvious time for sex to take a dive. So if we're piling on her for not feeling responsible for putting out at a time after childbirth, that's pretty messed up. I had every expectation that my 1st husband knew how to jerk off and would utilize that skill while I was out of the game for a moment. I also wasn't exactly wanting sex every day when I was very pregnant, so he had a rough few months there. It didn't kill him. To his credit, while I was cradling our newborn and recovering from surgery, he wasn't walking around putting his dick in my face. That ex didn't cheat. The XWH who brought me here cheated while I was all over him sexually.

And I do understand the pain of a dead bedroom. I was turned down for sex quite a bit in the year before DDay. It was profoundly upsetting, but he told me he was depressed (lie) and instead of badgering him and threatening him with cheating, I was supportive. I cannot imagine what goes through anyone's mind badgering a new mom for sex. That is a great time to get to know your hand.

I'll just copy and paste and quote again what I wrote above. We. Do. Not. Have. Clarification. If . She. Meant......

Does she mean shes not responsible for his sexual satisfaction to keep him from cheating again?

It is NOT the responsibility of a BS to try to keep their spouse from cheating, either with sex or ego kibbles or whatever. Period. Nothing will stop a cheater from cheating but themselves and finding the morals and boundaries that they should have had before they cheated IN THE FIRST PLACE.

And while technically true? That would suck the joy straight out of my life in SO many ways. So maybe I do not NEED it - but I consider it a necessary part of my existence. And my life would be a great deal emptier without it - and I WOULD NOT be happy.

I, however, would not cheat to get sex. But that is just me. I would, however, pack my bags and hit the door if a partner ever withheld sex from me 'because they weren't responsible for my sexual satisfaction'. And would never even look back.

So sex for you is more important that any relationship at all.

Let's hope any man with youn doesnt develop ED.

What about situations where sex is no longer an option. A partner who has had a stroke? Accident with paralysis? Developed Alzheimers?

As Chamomiletea stated we do not owe anything just because we are married. If he is being threatening, if she is exhausted with a new baby, if shes simply disgusted and pissed off he fucked another woman she is in NO way responsible for keeping his junk happy.

Sex is NOT a need. As far as population and continuing thr species crap, ya we've done so good a job at that that we threaten our very existence so that excuse is out.

Wow...like smh wow. It might not be a need during the zombie apocalypse, but I cannot imagine a marriage surviving very long without it. PERIOD!

My WW and I had, at least IMHO, a very healthy sex life pre-DD. However, I find it just a tad ironic that women demand "emotional attention" "intimacy" as a need in a marriage, but sex is not. The bottom line is you have to have both.

Sex is so fundamental to my marriage, and it is right now, currently a major road block in my recovery. Sex with my WW is completely different now. It is awkward and strange whereas it used to be uncomplicated and relaxing. Maybe that will change, but that is where I am right now. The frequency is also lacking, which makes me "question" her real desire for me, but that is what an affair does.

The bottom line is that I did not get married to have a roommate. I don't go to work, and bust my ass to support my wife and kids to come home to "do dishes" so I can get in bed a little earlier and maybe get lucky. Raising kids is tough. I get that, but my job is hard too. I have bad days too. Sometimes I am just tired and want to be satisfied too.

I got married to have a partnership and all that it entails, but I also got married to make love to my wife, to have quickies w/ my wife, and to also have kinky, freaky wild sex. BUT WITH MY WIFE...no other.

And to give a male perspective on women being treated as a blow-up doll...men don't want "duty sex" either. Sure, everyone has their moments, but just like women want to be desired, so do men.

I had every expectation that my 1st husband knew how to jerk off and would utilize that skill while I was out of the game for a moment.

Apparently this isnt a skill all.men developed...

My wh swears he cant get off that way...I've done it that way for him and he has gotten off. But for him to do it...nope. not that I've even seen him try. He insists it doesnt work so wont go there at all.

If hes snarky, rude, demanding, knows it's not happening but wont take no for an answer instead of telling him to give himself a hand, I simply remind him of the gift the guys at his old work got him. Pretty little fake vagina is still in its box under the bed ready and waiting for him any time he wants it...

(Note he was telling everyone at work I didn't give him any sex at all to justify him sleeping with at least four of the woman and in an attempt to keep anyone from telling me. Didn't work. While some of the guys felt sorry for him and bought the vagina for him someone else was nice enough to tell me when and where so I could catch him in the act...)

withholding sex because you are mad is wrong.

What? No. Just no. That's ridiculous. Somebody doesn't get to be a disrespectful prick and still expect their spouse to put out.

Wow...like smh wow. It might not be a need during the zombie apocalypse, but I cannot imagine a marriage surviving very long without it. PERIOD!

So like my dad should cheat or divorce my mom now that she had a stroke and I'm pretty sure sex is out....

Physical intimacy is important in a long term union, of course it is but it's not ALL there is. If sex is the main focus of any relationship then its bound to fall apart at some point.

Sex alone cannot build a solid foundation for a long term commitment. Desires, frequency, health, age, ability all change over time.

And since you've stated that your sex life has changed post affair can the OP not feel the same??? Why should she have to perform at all for him after he cheated on her?

So like my dad should cheat or divorce my mom now that she had a stroke and I'm pretty sure sex is out....

In business, I call that an outlier, meaning that it tracks outside the realm of all other known data points, and cannot be taken with any value. My premise was based upon the assumption that both spouses are healthy and relatively "normal."

[This message edited by SlapJacks at 10:38 AM, September 10th (Thursday)]

Denying sex in a marriage (which is by definition a sexual relationship between a man and a woman, unless spelled out otherwise in advance) is unworkable for most people.

Baby-related sex droughts are completely normal and should be expected as part of having a family. That said, one partner saying to another, as a way of altering the deal, "I no longer feel any responsibility for your sexual pleasure or gratification" is of a different level altogether than a baby-related sex drought. It's more like Darth Vader saying "I am altering the terms of the deal. Pray I don't alter it further."

That said, your H had other choices than adultery.

He could have said (as a friend of mine did to his frigid wife) "Ok here's the deal, this doesn't work for me. It's not what we agreed to when we got married. I'm willing to try to work it out. But I'm not willing to live in celibacy with you. Either we have sex or we have an open marriage or divorce. You pick. I'm willing to go to counseling to help if need be."

In that case, they did go to counseling. And she did start having sex with him regularly.

[This message edited by Thumos at 10:57 AM, September 10th (Thursday)]

WW here. Not justifying the WH's choice to have the affair in any manner- as many have stated, his healthy choices were to work on the marriage, or leave. He chose to abuse his wife with an affair instead of support her through a very difficult time with a newborn.

This post really spoke to me, as it mirrors a lot that took place in my situation and what I've found had to be worked on. I'm not there yet, but beginning to get some better understanding and perspective, and that's what I'm hoping to offer here.

I'm hoping to add some background and perspective from a spouse that was denied physical and emotional affection and support for over 1.5years while in the midst of post partum depression.

To be clear, I was lashing out in anger at my husband instead of coming to him with humility, which completely killed his desire for intimacy with me. That coupled with the Catholic NFP we were doing and the fact that I got pregnant with my daughter 3mos "too early" made it impossible for him to trust that we wouldn't get accidentally pregnant again. (FYI- antibiotics can give you a secondary ovulation in a cycle, not just produce signs- read that AFTER in a med journal study ). This all lead to him rejecting me physically- no hugs, no hand holding, no cuddling, not even sleeping together most nights let alone making out or kissing or spooning or ANYTHING. A year and a half. Add to that an unwanted (on my part) vasectomy before our sex life started again.

I cannot begin to tell you the level of DEVASTATION and REJECTION and PAIN I lived with those years and YEARS after when I would give him sex knowing he found me to be an unfit mother and unworthy of affection and praise in his eyes. I felt like a WHORE for him- granting him sex so he wouldn't leave me. I was DESPERATE for his affection, DESPERATE for his approval and REJECTED on so many levels by his withholding. Sex was the only physical contact with me initiated by him during that time. No affection, no words of affirmation and no real emotional support. Not even support in my counseling for my depression (there was a $$ crunch and he asked if my sessions were truly necessary at that point, I was desperate for his approval and stopped them).

At the same time as all this, he was DEVASTATED by my yelling, HURT by arguing, FRUSTRATED by my denial of my own contributions to our problems in our marriage. The only time he was pleased with me at that point was after sex, or after a large purchase for him or a week away from me and the kids and $$ spent hunting or on a gun or hunting equipment.

So, there's a lot of dynamics that could be going on here. OP could be dealing with PPD and general overwhelming exhaustion from being a 1st time mom. WH could be dealing with a deep sense of rejection in her stonewalling him for physical sex and affection.

However, if you're going to move on from this, there's some work both of you could do to understand each other and then care for each other.

That said, sexual intimacy is a deep seated need in men and part of their natural wiring and instincts. They communicate their intimacy and emotions (when they have a healthy sexuality) through physical interaction with their spouse. It sounds like your anger from his unrealistic expectations post partum and your acting out (in the form of stonewalling) made your husband feel deeply rejected on an emotional and spiritual level. That he was vulnerable to an affair in reaction to this hurt is on him to heal and figure out. His decision to act out in that abusive manner is likewise on him and he needs to heal from that. That is something I am currently working on myself. However, unless you understand his feelings of rejection and hurt, you're not going to be able to develop the empathy you need to find peace and healing moving forward for yourself. He needs to learn to make himself vulnerable to you and discuss his feelings of rejection and pain in a constructive manner so he can heal and change enough for you both to move on from this.

Women on the other hand, need emotional intimacy and voluntary non-sexual physical affection in order to feel safe enough to physically express themselves with their husband. Emotional intimacy and affection communicate to us that we are special to our mate and not just another piece of meat to satisfy their physical desires. Our sex drives are (typically) wired to be receptive rather than initiative in that department. In other words, female sexual desire can be induced by a husband that is meeting her emotional needs for security and voluntary affection (non-sexual touching). It sounds like your husband was doing neither for you during this time. It also sounds like you feel reduced to the level of a tool for his masturbation instead of a cherished participant in the act. That's on him to own and on him to understand so he can help you heal. However, understanding this about yourself and communicating that constructively and in a vulnerable manner to your husband is what's needed going forward if you're going to feel heard and heal.

I wish you both the best moving forward and hope for both your sakes that you can gain understanding and empathy for each other- whether you're able to repair your marriage or not.

The bottom line is that I did not get married to have a roommate. I don't go to work, and bust my ass to support my wife and kids to come home to "do dishes" so I can get in bed a little earlier and maybe get lucky. Raising kids is tough. I get that, but my job is hard too. I have bad days too. Sometimes I am just tired and want to be satisfied too.

This^^^^^^ goes back to this vvvvvv (bad attempt at down arrow lol)

And we wonder why there are jokes about marriage basically being legalized prostitution.

Sex is not payment.

If my wh wants sex as payment for me staying home and him working then I'll go to work. Better yet I'll find another husbandd. I am not his prostitute.

I gave up my own income to stay home and raise a family. I dont work to bring in an income but I deal with absolutely everything to do with the children, school, housework, medical stuff, meal prep, and I run a bloody farm! On.my. own....

What does wh do? He works from 5am to 6pm four days a week, 5-12 one day and sits on his ass the rest of the time...

I do not get a lunch break, I dont get a bonus, I dont get a vacation. I get shit on and barfed on and deal with snotty noses. And it's a 24/7 job. If one of the kids is sick at night I'm the one up.

My premise was based upon the assumption that both spouses are healthy and relatively normal.

There's normal and then there's normal. When one's normal behavior is to shut his wife's conversation down, change topics, make EVERYTHING about himself, bitch and moan about any and all minor inconveniences, spew his misery out on all and sundry like a live volcano instantly extinguishing all the little villagers... normal = asshole.

I don't have sex with assholes, at least, not any more I don't. If/when he gets tired of behaving like a petulant little ego monster, he knows where to find me.

This isn't even about his cheating. I haven't brought that up in years. It's about the negative way he interacts with the world and how he ruins my equanimity with it. I won't even ride in the same car with him if I can avoid it, because the driver he's cursing and screaming at can't hear him through the window glass, but I sure as hell can. And no matter how many times and how many ways I tell him that, instead of responding to the way his negativity prods my latent anxiety, HE decides it's not a problem. My amygdala might kick me in the ass and I'll have head and neck pain for an hour afterward, but hey... some egghead didn't put on their blinker, right?

It's all stupid shit like that, but I can't stay connected with him when he's a red hot misery all the time... and I won't. Sex didn't change it. He had all the sex he could handle and he still wasn't listening. But... I'm completely content to do my own thing and I don't need that kind of aggravation at this point in my life. If he wants change, he knows what he needs to do.

I am all about a healthy active interesting fun sex life with your spouse. That is what it should be like. I like sex quite a lot and I consider it necessary in a relationship too. I would have been thrilled with sex daily. It isn't going to be like that every month. Life stuff is going to happen. Having a baby, dealing with stress, physical issues, etc. If I had to feel like I needed a calendar to ensure that my partner didn't go X days without sex or he'd cheat on me, I'd just divorce. Fuck that pressure. I'd want a partner who did what I did and said "I am feeling like we're not connecting like we used to. I worry that you aren't attracted to me and I feel rejected. What's going on?". I wouldn't want a partner who said "If you don't give it to me, I'll go get it somewhere else!". That isn't how you speak to someone you love and respect. Cheating isn't how you treat someone you love and respect. If I came to a partner with love and concern and I was met with a lack of concern, I'd consider that this was a bigger problem than sex. I wouldn't cheat to "fix" the problem. This dude cheated. At that point, he isn't entitled to regular sex to keep him satisfied. He broke the entire partnership.

[This message edited by DevastatedDee at 11:18 AM, September 10th (Thursday)]

How can I feel safe with someone when I'm constantly thinking that if I'm not giving someone enough sex, maybe it's not kinky enough etc, they'll be leaving or getting it elsewhere?

You can't feel safe with those thoughts, but good communications can change or confirm the thoughts. If the comms goes one way, you'll feel safe. If it goes another, you'll know he'll cheat again.

Communicate!

And guys don’t get it, but after pregnancy and childbirth, after caring for a newborn, late nights and early mornings, we are not exactly feeling like porn stars. If a man can’t handle a change in sex after a newborn comes into the picture, well IMO, he’s the one with the issue. Relationships ebb and flow. There’s not always going to be pornstar sex.

I don't count a new baby, especially the first, as an 'ebb'. IMO, it's a major change in the relationship. M was a relationship between 2 people; now it's 3.

It certainly was a shock to me. I'm a smart guy, and in retrospect I don't see why it was a shock, but it was. Luckily, I was mature enough to take the new facts into account.

Isn't marriage supposed to make things better?

To expect marriage sex to keep up with dating sex is ridiculous.

When we got married, it was very rare for middle-class kids to live together before M, so M definitely made sex better, simply because we were together more.

I don't want to make too much of this, but it's sort of a special day when sisoon agrees with Rideitout.

Recovering from C-section surgery and tending to a newborn is a profoundly unsexy time for many reasons.

I understand a new mom's not feeling sexy, especially with a c-section. OTOH, IIRC, my W seemed to be very sexy when she was taking care of our son. I knew the time she was nursing was a time for protection, not sex, but taking care of our son generally stoked my desire. Again, I understand taking care of a baby tired my W out, but sexual desire is still something that has to be satisfied eventually.

WRT OP, I agree with what others have been saying - it's very hard not to take rejection very personally. I understand that sometimes it has to be done, but if you reject him as often as you seem to be saying you do, it's a big problem that deserves your attention and your H's.

Edited because my phone keeps changing HOW to HOE. DS...

Isn't 'hoe' entirely appropriate for a farmer?

[This message edited by sisoon at 11:52 AM, September 10th (Thursday)]

I understand a new mom's not feeling sexy, especially with a c-section. OTOH, IIRC, my W seemed to be very sexy when she was taking care of our son. I knew the time she was nursing was a time for protection, not sex, but taking care of our son generally stoked my desire. Again, I understand taking care of a baby tired my W out, but sexual desire is still something that has to be satisfied eventually.

Absolutely, some women do have a high sex drive at that time. I didn't. It isn't that we had no sex, but it wasn't as often as it had been previously. I was recovering from childbirth and surgery. It bounced back to several times per week after a couple of months. I needed that couple of months to start feeling like a person again, though. That's not uncommon. Had he become a demanding asshole during that couple of months while I was learning to be a mom and recovering from surgery, I guess I'd have one kid instead of two, lol.

[This message edited by DevastatedDee at 12:09 PM, September 10th (Thursday)]

Isn't 'hoe' entirely appropriate for a farmer?

Ya ya I do have a hoe that I use in the garden lol. Of course I spelt HOE and it came out HOW this time. Had to correct it. My phone is weird.

Then again i see HOE as more to do with being here than farming.

WRT OP, I agree with what others have been saying - it's very hard not to take rejection very personally. I understand that sometimes it has to be done, but if you reject him as often as you seem to be saying you do, it's a big problem that deserves your attention and your H's.

I've read the oP post over and over and I'm just not getting the same vibe as everyone else. She put the concerns about keeping up the sex to keep him from cheating right after saying shes not responsible for his sexual satisfaction. To me that's more about her saying she doesnt feel it's her job to keep him from cheating again.

And the lack of sex was due to the new baby. No withholding sex. Where does she say she withholds sex?

I felt obligated to have sex after the c section and to just get wh to stop nagging. I ended up back in hospital. I looked up what the general time to wait for sex after having a baby. 4-6 weeks.. otherwise:

[quote]Having intercourse too early, especially within the first 2 weeks, increases the risk of postpartum hemorrhage or uterine infection.

As with all things used as a 'reason' for cheating, the correct answer is not cheating. The correct answer is, "I'm not sexually fulfilled in this relationship, and you no longer seem interested in me."

She says, "ok let's make some changes" or whatever. Maybe they work, maybe they don't.

Shit is still bad? "This isn't working out, I'm leaving." Leaving is always better than cheating.

To add some details... we are not married and unfortunately had an unplanned pregnancy very early on in our relationship. So, those first couple months were great, pregnancy was rough so slowed down a bit but no complaints from him. Baby was high needs and screamed with anyone but me. My BF was not supportive and yes I told him multiple time if he helped me with the kids, helped around the house, etc. It would help things along. Hard to feel sexy when you're covered in spit up, haven't had more than 3 hours of consecutive sleep in months, showered, had a moment to yourself since who knows when. When baby was 3 months old he he basically threatened to leave. I basically forced myself to have sex I didn't want for the next 3 months. A flu went through the house and 5 weeks went by without sex. He then threatened to cheat and said some other very insensitive things. That's when I put my foot down and said no sex until we can get into therapy. We had our first appt a couple weeks after that and 4 days later I caught him cheating but I believe it had been going on for awhile.

I do not want a celibate relationship by any means and generally have a healthy libido when I'm in a happy and supportive relationship. This unplanned pregnancy and the months following with a colic child and no support were so bad I'm probably going to have PTSD. And my partner could only think about himself. When I think about the future, things that come to mind are, what if I get really sick, like cancer or something, and instead of focusing on getting better I'm going to be thinking about if my partners cheating because I can't have sex.

Thank you for coming back and clarifying for us. I know we kinda exploded your thread.

With this information I can totally feel confident in saying hes being a selfish jerk. Uts not up to you to keep him happy so he doesnt cheat. It's up to him to grow up and deal with the fact he is a father and with that comes responsibility. Cheating is never ok. Ever. It's not your fault. You were trying to work this out in therapy and he went and cheated. This is all on him

And yes yes yes to the blown up doll comments. At one point towards the end I asked for a hug and he said no unless we were going to have sex talk about feeling like nothing but a hole for his pleasure.