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And the initiating thing becomes its own problem. He wanted me to initiate because then he would feel that I really wanted to have sex, but then it became ONLY me initiating. I tried to talk about how that was becoming an issue, but I was either shut down, or he agreed to initiate sometimes but never did. So, I stopped. And he still never did.

[This message edited by Darkness Falls at 12:30 PM, September 11th (Friday)]

He wanted me to initiate because then he would feel that I really wanted to have sex, but then it became ONLY me initiating.

In my case it was quite the opposite :-) I suggested that she initiate things from time to time, so I would feel she really wanted sex, but was always dismissed with "It's a man's job to initiate". After years of such treatment I started feeling like I was begging or coercing her to have sex with me and my manly pride got the better of me, so I initiated lovemaking only when I couldn't stand the frustration anymore. I'm strongly convinced it was a sort of power play for her. Then, along came the AP ...

I'm strongly convinced it was a sort of power play for her. Then, along came the AP ...

Because it IS a power play. "I don't care as much" so, in effect, I'm doing you a favor by doing this, and, the harder I make it for you, the more you'll feel that inside. But make no mistake, it's not "feels like a power play" it IS a power play.

And yes, I feel you on the 2nd point too, then along comes the AP, and she's begging him to try to get hard for another go at it in a 30 minute period. Wonder why? Well, we could say he's better in bed, or he's more handsome, or she's in the fog, or whatever. But part of the answer, IMHO, is "she has no power" in that situation and she knows it. You don't f**k him? Guess what, his wife will, and you'll quickly get nexted for an AP that will put out. The power only comes when there's exclusivity, without that, "he'll get it elsewhere" removes the "power". And this applies for men and women, it's really the power that's given to the lower desire partner the moment a relationship goes from open to exclusive.

He sounds like an entitled prick to me this would kill any desire for sex for me anyways. I identify with this whole thread as my STBX used lack of sex for his A’s (we at that time we’re having sex 3 days a week. Hardly the dead bedroom he was complaining to MOW about). Like you my firstborn was colicky and he was nowhere to be found to help out. He even said at one point we can drop the baby off at hospital and leave there if we don’t want it... the fuq. My ex is a real ass and I should have divorced his ass just over that comment. He also threatened me if I didn’t step it up then he would divorce me. So then I felt like sex was duty and was becoming more and more not into for that reason alone. After our second child I was basically raising both kids by myself, working full time and you guessed it he expected sex on demand with no emotional intimacy or touching. What he wanted was porn star sex and absolute adoration

Here’s how I know that he was just one sick sex addict. He constantly had to up the ante for his fetishes to get off and sometimes had to use porn to climax while we were having sex. That made me feel like I couldn’t satisfy him and eventually I lost all desire. We did open the marriage up after D-Day with MOW and even that wasn’t enough as he was still seeing MOW the whole time we were supposedly in R.

Sex topics are a HUGE trigger for me and I am so effing sick of hearing about wah wah wah I’m not getting enough sex bullshit makes me fucking sick

[This message edited by crazyblindsided at 3:58 PM, September 11th (Friday)]

NOTE: I have not read all the pages of responses.

If you two are not compatible sexually, then perhaps this relationship has run its course.

You should not have unilaterally taken sex off the table (if I understood correctly), but WH should not have cheated. That's a separate deal. Sex should only go bye-bye if both parties agree and are comfortable with that.

Have a sit-down, see if you two can come to some agreement regarding your (mutual) sexual (and other) expectations, and go from there.

If not, then I think this relationship was over even before the cheating. It would be time to make this official (ie, D).

Being in an almost dead bedroom situation, i really am afraid of cheating myself.

I need it and its part of the deal of the marriage, and i will never condone with a dead bedroom situation

I had to bite the bullet many times and have sex when i wasnt in the mood, but i dont get the same courtesy done to me.

i really am afraid of cheating myself.

If we are saying that cheating is an option in an unhappy marital situation, then this site serves no purpose.

You must stand up for your needs:

Use your voice.

Do research.

Get MC.

Get IC.

Read books.

Go to retreats.

Find a sex therapist.

Have a discussion.

Have 10 discussions.

Threaten D.

Argue.

Do the 180.

See a lawyer.

Follow through on threats.

Tell her you are going to cheat!!!

Separate.

File for divorce.

You have options, but if cheating is indeed one of these options, then everything on this website is a farce.

Broken people cheat.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 9:50 AM, September 12th (Saturday)]

Page three third post from the bottom OP clarifies for us that this isnt a dead bedroom, wants celibacy situation. SHE WAS EXHAUTED FROM BEING A NEW MOM WITH A SICK BABY AND A BF WHO DIDN'T DO ANYTHING TO HELP. SHE TRIED THERAPY. SHE PLAYED BLOW UP DOLL FOR HIM AND HE STILL CHEATED.

I wouldn't want to sleep with him either!!!

OP said:

To add some details... we are not married and unfortunately had an unplanned pregnancy very early on in our relationship. So, those first couple months were great, pregnancy was rough so slowed down a bit but no complaints from him. Baby was high needs and screamed with anyone but me. My BF was not supportive and yes I told him multiple time if he helped me with the kids, helped around the house, etc. It would help things along. Hard to feel sexy when you're covered in spit up, haven't had more than 3 hours of consecutive sleep in months, showered, had a moment to yourself since who knows when. When baby was 3 months old he he basically threatened to leave. I basically forced myself to have sex I didn't want for the next 3 months. A flu went through the house and 5 weeks went by without sex. He then threatened to cheat and said some other very insensitive things. That's when I put my foot down and said no sex until we can get into therapy. We had our first appt a couple weeks after that and 4 days later I caught him cheating but I believe it had been going on for awhile.

I do not want a celibate relationship by any means and generally have a healthy libido when I'm in a happy and supportive relationship. This unplanned pregnancy and the months following with a colic child and no support were so bad I'm probably going to have PTSD. And my partner could only think about himself. When I think about the future, things that come to mind are, what if I get really sick, like cancer or something, and instead of focusing on getting better I'm going to be thinking about if my partners cheating because I can't have sex.

I think there are a couple of important points here that need to be said.

Sex is something that is going to be of different priorities to all of us. For some, like myself, it is in fact a need to be happy in my life. Others, it's a nice to have, or even just something they do once in a while. It doesn't make someone wrong- it means they are different. And this isn't gender based, either.

It's important to recognize that changes in circumstances etc will affect sex drive, but it's also important to recognize the effect that those behaviours will have on your spouse. It's not okay to just decide you don't want to have sex anymore and expect monogamy- that's not even borderline- it's just as abusive as cheating. You're making a decision for your partner without their input or consent that seriously affects them.

Secondly, no one ever owes anyone else sex. That being said, you have to recognize the consequences of your decision. You're never going to have a happy partner if you unilaterally make the decision that sex is off the table. That's not going to help your relationship.

We aren't responsible strictly speaking for meeting any of our spouses's needs- but as spouses, we are supposed to WANT to meet their needs. Otherwise, why did we get married? Part and parcel of being in a relationship is putting in the effort to do things to make your partner happy while they do the same for you. If there are issues, you discuss them. Good communication and negotiation skills will get you through most problems.

As for the "choreplay" (I do like that term!) I agree that there's competing factors there. Doing chores isn't sexy. In no way shape or form is that arousing. But if one partner is tired from chores by the end of the day, they're hoping that having their partner pitch in will leave them with more energy. And it really is more that they're hoping they will feel loved and appreciated by the gesture- which DOES contribute to emotional intimacy and make people more interested in sex. But if it's just, look at me I'm doing the chores to get things? Nah, that's not sexy in the slightest. It's really the intent behind it and the way it's done rather than the actual actions.

Some people need to feel loved to have sex, and some people need to have sex to feel that loving connection, and both sides need to recognize where their partner is coming from. Denying sex will make a partner who prioritizes sex highly feel unloved, while badgering a partner for sex who needs to feel loved, will feel equally unloved. People need to learn to connect with each other on their partner's terms and find away to navigate a mutually acceptable sex life. It's not always going to be easy, but if my partner had the attitude that my sexual needs were simply not their concern, they wouldn't be my partner for very long.

[This message edited by PSTI at 4:24 PM, September 12th (Saturday)]

This post jogged my memory... glad it did.

I remember my deceased WH making threats about wanting to cheat on me too. But who wants intimacy with a cheater, liar and a drunk in the first place?

Before I even realized that he had cheated, my subconscious was having trust issues with him "as if" he had already cheated. So before I knew the truth of who he really was several years later, I was already not wanting to have sex and be intimate with him. It was becoming scarce and boring, same old routine. I was beginning to find him unattractive and was slowly moving myself away from him from an emotional standpoint. I thought it was me and my past creeping up on me that I was losing interest in him but the truth is that it was him! He was already cheating on me!

BTW, I also was pregnant and had my daughter in this timeframe. Sounds like my deceased WH didn't have any understanding for me back then either and was only concerned about his needs.

I decided to edit this post and leave the negative out of it. BTW, when I was in love with my WH, we were having sex up to five times a day. I love sex very much but have learned over time that it's not so much fun being intimate with someone I can't even trust and is being emotionally abusive. That's what killed it for me.

[This message edited by Hurtmyheart at 6:03 PM, September 12th (Saturday)]

I've drafted & deleted several posts on this thread.... but I think it really all comes down to this:

If we are saying that cheating is an option in an unhappy marital situation, then this site serves no purpose.

Thank you OIN, could not agree more.

withholding sex in your marriage is no better than him cheating

Seriously? Not having sex is "NO BETTER" than lying to your spouse? NO BETTER than banging someone else behind their back - perhaps for years or decades? Love to hear when better than 50% of folks not getting any from their H/W got a DX of PTSD due to a dead bedroom. And I guess those who have physical issues (men AND women, esp as they age, can have all sorts of problems here, that may not be readily "fixed" by some little pill.... I have several women friends who have various issues that make sex very painful - sometimes the "treatment" comes with AWFUL side effects.... guess those ladies should just live with near constant migraines or other problems or they will be "just as bad" as a cheater).

SMH.

withholding sex because you are mad is wrong.

My unsensored gut wants to respond to the above “with, “Oh, hell no!”

But that is not a reflection on whoever posted that statement, it is a reflection on the experiences that I have had in this department.

Granted, I am about 8 to 10 years with no sex in my marriage. Post husband‘s infidelity, we went through HB and no sex and back to HB. Finally, it wasn’t worth the effort. He didn’t try to help us repair the marriage, and I was tired of doing it alone.

But regarding the quote, I would respectfully like to say that I don’t agree with the premise. “Withholding” sex sounds as if you are intentionally staying 3 feet away and chanting, “nanny nanny boo-boo - you’re not getting any”!

I have personally been accused of “withholding sex because I was mad“. And that does not accurately describe what is going on. True, I was mad, and we did not have sex. But it doesn’t mean I was an asexual person - just that I was feeling TOTALLY unconnected at the time.

But the nuance was that, because of the disagreement or fight or situation that had gone on that made me angry, I did not feel a closeness, or an emotional intimacy to my husband. And without that intimacy, I’m not interested. That’s just me.

I try really hard to understand peoples feelings when they make “dealbreaker” comments regarding sexual frequency/experiences. And I understand that even biblically, references are made to not withholding yourself (body) from your spouse.

But to me, to offer up my body to another person is just as intimate as opening up my emotional intimacy. And I cannot do that with someone who has recently disrespected, demeaned, etc., me.

So, am I understanding that many of you feel that if this sexual situation is at an impasse, the solution is divorce? What about if you don’t agree about the way to raise your kids… public school or homeschool? Is that a reason for divorce? And what about if you have differences in religious practices?

When you vow to have and to hold from this day forward for better or for worse in sickness and health, etc... Does that include everything except if one of the other has an issue with physical intimacy?

I was a virgin when I got married at 21. I’ve been married three times and have had sex with three men. Sexual intimacy is not something I avoided because I didn’t value sex, but because I valued it so highly. It has always been something that I have valued and placed at such importance that I wanted it to be special in every way. So I do not take it lightly.

I just don’t understand this thinking. I don’t believe my husband cares that we do not have sex. He is quite ill, paralyzed from the armpits down, and in a great deal of pain. But if he were up walking, feeling great, and looking fine… I would STILL have to feel an emotional intimacy before I could be interested in physical intimacy with him.

And in my (albeit naive) mind, I would think that would be a plus, not a negative.

I wouldn't want a man like that. He's made his own troubles. Just gave birth and new baby? Have some compassion!

Shouldn't it be special? I never believed in forcing anyone. If you don't feel it, you don't. No magic pill has been invented yet.

As far as Limerence goes, yes I think it pushes people's desire way up. You are looking at the person all starry eyed anyway. Later on if they are picking at you, addicted to anything, spend hours with porn, won't help with life's burdens, be distant on an ongoing basis, won't take the kids for errands.....you know, be a lousy partner...

You think the magic is going to happen?

I don't believe in owed sex either. Your partner loves you and wants to share their body.

There should be no threats. That's not love.

Marriage without love is only a paper document.

Love and respect come first.

So, am I understanding that many of you feel that if this sexual situation is at an impasse, the solution is divorce? What about if you don’t agree about the way to raise your kids… public school or homeschool? Is that a reason for divorce? And what about if you have differences in religious practices?

When you vow to have and to hold from this day forward for better or for worse in sickness and health, etc... Does that include everything except if one of the other has an issue with physical intimacy?

You still get to decide what works for you and makes you happy. You don't have to stay in a marriage that is toxic or abusive or even just plain makes you unhappy long term.

Part of this is why it's so important to discuss your wants and needs before marriage, but that isn't going to handle everything because people change, and most of the time that's a good thing. We grow and learn more about ourselves and what we want out of life. And sometimes that means we outgrow a partner.

There is no sense in staying with a partner out of duty if it's making one or both of you unhappy. We will all draw that line different places, but if you don't have that line at all? I would argue that you don't have healthy boundaries. That doesn't mean you start swiping left at the first sign of trouble like so many people do nowadays, but it does mean you need to know what you want, what will make you happy in a relationship. And you have to be willing to walk away if you won't get that. No relationship is worth selling yourself out for.

I think your question and circumstances are two totally different things. This fella doesn't seem to care about you in the way you're hoping he will.

I can't imagine ever doing the 'no hug without sex' thing to anyone I cared about, unless they were trying to friendzone me.

I think you're best option now, if you haven't already, is to pull back and file for child support. Stand on your own without him and make him prove to you he's a worthy partner.