SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Ok boomer. 😂 j/k

Look if you don’t like the term don’t use it — but accusing me of ignoring the pain of victims is absurd.

Recognizing their pain is what started this entire thread.

No dictionary I could find refers to adultery as a “legal term” exclusively or even solely — but if you need to make the distinction knock yourself out.

Others don’t seem as hung up on it.

Also not every nail needs a codependent hammer. The authors aren’t confused about empathy. Maybe read the book?

Webster's Dictionary: adultery n. violation of marital vows.

Sorry. Not legal. Why does it have to have anything to do with legal?

Without reading the book, a book I highly recommend BSs read, you are jumping to conclusions. We caution people to not make diagnosis from their armchair especially when unqualified to do so.

I am a BS. My XWW committed adultery. I consider it abusive. I consider all of the lying, gaslighting, risking my health, manipulation, etc. abusive which happened will committing adultery and after the DDays. I was victimized by her abuse. I am not a victim.

She was committing adultery when I didn't know, when I suspected but didn't know. Adultery is a word that perfectly describes how I feel about that, how I felt about it right after the DDays and now several years later.

Trying to get me to think it was something less than that is offensive. It wasn't a fling, an entanglement, a detour or an affair. All of those minimize.

Don't minimize. Deal with it. Get counselling. But don't minimize something so you can make it less atrocious.

Trying to get me to think it was something less than that is offensive. It wasn't a fling, an entanglement, a detour or an affair. All of those minimize.

Amen.

Types of adultery carry different connotations ; when a low self esteem / low impulse control / addicted / younger person cheats they are a shitty partner but not always a contemptuous deliberately hurtful one.

I think intent and chronicity does count for alot here , if someone has already said the murder manslaughter thing here i second that.

I d say serial manslaughter probably equals murder in its moral depravity

Best case scenario is that your partner thinks sex with someone else is better than sex with you ( once) . Personally i could live with that so long as no stds were transmitted . I do see a very clear path to forgiveness in that scenario

Everything else is abuse , emotional . sexual what have you

[This message edited by siracha at 6:33 PM, October 10th (Saturday)]

A couple of comments really jumped out to me from earlier in the thread that, to me at least, bear repeating and consideration.

First this from Owning It Now:

It is only with distance and IC that many BS begin to realize that those initial emotions may have preserved the M but they soiled their own soul. Many of us look back at the Pick Me dance as disgusting, pathetic, weak. I will never, EVER value the M more than I value myself again. I hate who I was.

I think I can speak for many of us that this is a common feeling — and many of us felt pressured by society, friends, family, our church to “do the right thing” and go ahead and hork down the proverbial shit sandwich. It’s only later we realize “wow this is a shit sandwich I’m eating! WTF am I doing? This is disgusting!”

And then this from gmc94:

I don't for one second believe that folks get stuck in their victim role bc of the language being used to describe their experience. Indeed, I would characterize myself as MORE stuck before I was able to see and accept that I had PTSD... that I had been traumatized, which in turn allowed me to understand that my amygdala had overtaken executive function and was running the damn show and rather than kicking myself for not being able to "control" my symptoms, I needed help and I needed to accept that I had truly been traumatized in a way that I could not ignore. I also needed to accept that my WH is an abuser, whether he "intended" his behavior to be abusive or not.

I believe we can at least ameliorate people getting “stuck” in limbo by using language that is perhaps more blunt but also more direct in describing the real impact on betrayed spouses.

This can at least avoid further confusing already deeply confused and deeply traumatized people. If they know that what has been done to them is akin to abuse, has deprived them of bodily autonomy and will result in PTSD, they can be equipped with more information to make better decisions.

Like gmc94, I also believe our society could use a real wake up call. We’ve seen far too much equivocation on adultery, especially the past 10 years or so.

And if this shift awakens in our society a stronger feeling about adultery and it’s implications then so much the better.

I also believe our society could use a real wake up call.

I struggle with this concept at it feels to me like we (the generic we as humans) are always talking about how others need to change and never looking at our own role. Is that me being a control freak, overly into personal agency? Or is it appropriate to remember that change begins with us? Idk.

For me, I have realized that an issue I still struggle with is confusing words and actions, and I see this as common with a lot of BS actually. When my WS messes up, which he did recently in pretty grand fashion, I tend to use my words to seek out the desired change in him. And yet I KNOW that words are weak, they are pointless, and they allow me to institute ZERO boundaries while telling myself that I have laid down the law. Shaming someone is not a boundary; it actually shows that I have no boundaries. Maybe this is part of "society's" problem--cheaters get away with it because of people with poor boundaries. My H didn't cheat or anything, but he did something that showed an incredible lack of empathy after many months of not messing up in that way. I have put in place boundaries this time, but I am still questioning myself. I guess I always will. I'm not sure if I'll ever be as good with boundaries as I should be.

So in terms of society changing, as long as there are idiots like me with weak-ish boundaries who gravitate toward the selfish variety for reasons hardwired in childhood (thanks, FOO!) there will be low self-esteem cheaters to take advantage. I guess changing society starts with me. Just sayin': we only control ourselves.

One more point: the discussion in this thread is very interesting. It almost (almost!) borders on an implied position that cheating IS abuse from those D or seeking D who often advocate repeatedly against empathy for cheaters VS. those saying that it may be abusive in its result but wasn't perpetrated as abuse because the BS wasn't "there" for the injury. This position is advocated by those who would like to see a path toward empathy for all people, including cheaters.

So is the argument empathy for cheaters vs. no empathy for cheaters? Is it healed BS vs. bitter/angry BS? Is it actually love vs. hate? I can see both sides so take no real position, but it does seem that the two sides are actually two different places in the healing process more than anything else. When you are angry, it is abuse and you better not say it wasn't! When you are a hammer, everything is a nail. Understandable. Carry on ...

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 4:21 AM, October 11th (Sunday)]

If someone has empathy for a cheater, I am fine with it. I just cannot feel any.

I believe I had and have empathy for my XWW. When I was bleeding out I was comforting her, holding her as she was crying with wracking sobs.

As I was doing all that all night reading in books and on the internet I was sharing what I was reading with her. I was looking for her why's for her. A lot that I found really broke her up. There was so much that brought all of the things buried in her psyche into light.

I knew a little about her life before we started dating but what came out was monumental. I'm bleeding out, holding and rocking her while she finally acknowledges it all and I hurt for her. Had I known before I could have shared that load with her. She never shared. I don't think she ever thought directly about it all but it definitely affected her. If she did think about it she was afraid to share.

I have empathy for my XWW to this day. We've been separated for 3 years and divorced since April (after the 30 day cooling off period once the Judge has signed). I hope she deals with her demons. I hope she finds peace. I think she may just suppress things again but I don't know. I hope her faith strengthens which I believe it is.

But I believe in order to find real peace and for her to forgiveness for herself (the Lord has already done so if she asks in humility) she needs to do a lot of work. She invested (after separation) in some kind of odd programs instead of IC.

Nonetheless, having empathy for her doesn't negate the fact that she committed adultery. It doesn't negate the fact that she not only was abusive by committing adultery but intentionally abusive while doing so.

You can have empathy and still have a hill too far. But you don't have to.

[This message edited by steadychevy at 8:22 AM, October 11th (Sunday)]

So is the argument empathy for cheaters vs. no empathy for cheaters? Is it healed BS vs. bitter/angry BS? Is it actually love vs. hate? I can see both sides so take no real position, but it does seem that the two sides are actually two different places in the healing process more than anything else.

Gently it seems you are setting up a false dichotomy here, somewhat similar to those who conflate forgiveness with reconciliation and love with reconciliation. You can love and forgive and divorce or you can love and forgive and reconcile.

I sort of outlined this at the beginning of the thread. If “healing” for a BS implies they can no longer see adultery as an abusive act or participate in obfuscation, equivocation or use minimizing language or morally neutral language, then something has actually gone quite wrong in my opinion.

And I wouldn’t see that as healing at all.

Healing to me would actually imply the opposite: looking it all squarely in the face and truly acknowledging that what took place was on the same level of toxicity as other forms of abuse.

And acting accordingly.

No one would send a shell shocked solider back to the front unless they were deliberately trying to hurt and retraumatize the soldier.

We would never recommend any spouse who has been subjected to other forms of spousal abuse that they should re-label what was done to them as something else. We would want them to integrate it into their experience and that would mean NOT participating in minimizing it with word salads.

Safety and separation first for an abuse victim, then a period of mourning, then a new life.

All of that requires looking the abuse squarely in the face without looking away. Doing it that should not be conflated with bitterness. Just the opposite.

[This message edited by Thumos at 6:49 AM, October 11th (Sunday)]

When you are angry, it is abuse and you better not say it wasn't!

This also seems to conflate anger with bitterness. They are two separate things and should not be confused. Anger (not rage, not resentment) is a virtuous, righteous emotion and has been viewed as such throughout human history. Aristotle wrote an entire section of his Ethics on the virtue of anger.

Now it is seen as “unhealthy” (the muddled and wrong headed way “Star Wars” handles anger is a good example) but the latest psychological research indicates it is a primary emotion, not secondary — and not a cover for other emotions as pop psych previously labeled it.

When the Emperor said “feel your anger” Luke should have said “yes and I’ll feel this virtuous emotion and use it to smash evil.”

Aristotle seems to have been right. Anger is healthy. It is part of our survival mechanism.

Anger is an integral part of the emotional and moral framework “written on their hearts.” It seems to be a part of the objective morality (the “moral law”) that even many atheist philosophers recognize (Sam Harris notwithstanding).

Without anger, our “THUMOS” would not be stirred within us to drive us to make right what is wrong.

MLK jr didn’t stifle his anger. He channeled it for a higher purpose. He knew the difference between righteous anger and bitterness. He knew the difference between anger and destructive action. He didn’t confuse the two. He wrote about it. The most loving thing he did for our society was NOT to stifle his anger, but to use it.

“Forgiving and being reconciled to our enemies or our loved ones are not about pretending that things are other than they are. It is not about patting one another on the back and turning a blind eye to the wrong. True reconciliation exposes the awfulness, the abuse, the hurt, the truth. It could even sometimes make things worse. It is a risky undertaking but in the end it is worthwhile, because in the end only an honest confrontation with reality can bring real healing. Superficial reconciliation can bring only superficial healing.” ~Archbishop Desmond Tutu

[This message edited by Thumos at 8:35 AM, October 11th (Sunday)]

that cheating IS abuse from those D or seeking D who often advocate repeatedly against empathy for cheaters

This is one of the worst generalisations. There are tons of R due to finances/children or just too tired to D. Unfortunately all those folks eating the shit sandwich can't bitch about it can they ? And the folks in real R are triggering but mindful not to push the WS again by calling it abuse.

I consider it worse than abuse.. Practically every instance of tt was like a rape but I too considered a R in the beginning which led the WW to push me.

Yeah, the proverbial walkover treatment. And financial as well as custody considerations combined with WW approach nudged me to a D.

I am in a fault jurisdiction so it led to you take yours (5 years WW net pay saved by us towards College fund of kids, all expenses borne by me) and I retained my assets, no alimony, full custody with extremely limited visitation in return for no child support.

A failed reconciliation (A forgiven, so no longer ground for D) would have been a disaster since my earnings were a multiple of WW and probably no custody. With all of the psychological issues with the affair, WW gaining custody would have been a disaster for my kid. Since WW did not take action to be a safe person I was forced to act to create a safe place for my family.

I can reason out why A happened but not worth risking everything on the hope WW would not relapse. WW fought the D till the last minute but not in the way of owning it, remorse etc.

A abuser owning up and acting to ensure zero reocurrence is no longer a abuser. That does not mean the earlier act was not abuse.

I am not every eloquent so I quote lostgirl on my approach.

Yeah, I see you're in pain. I can recognize that you're hurting. I feel you, it sucks. HOWEVER, you CHOSE to try to alleviate that pain that you have through callously abusing me in attempt to numb your pain. I don't understand WHY you chose to hurt me to make yourself feel better, and I don't give a damn why you did it. I also see that now that you've done it (been caught), your own callously abusive actions have caused yourself to be in even more pain. No, I have no desire to help you through the pain you are in. Why should I? You hurt, I see it, I get it, I hurt too, it sucks, and as far as I'm concerned you need to figure out how to fix your damn self

[This message edited by btdi at 8:20 AM, October 11th (Sunday)]

Anger protected me. It is an emotion to do just that. It is also a motivational emotion.

Beyond the adultery of my XWW I have been angered by injustices. That has motivated me to get involved with movements and politics financially and physically. I have done so all my adult years and continue to do so today.

I will say, as Thumos has, that anger is a virtuous and righteous emotion and is protective and motivational, too.

who often advocate repeatedly against empathy

We probably need to be careful here because again this seems like conflation. It is not advocating against empathy to oppose rugsweeping, elisions, euphemisms, equivocations, blameshifting, scapegoating, comfortable obfuscation and more.

Indeed I view advocating for a truthful accounting of adultery as abuse as a quite empathetic and loving act, as the Tutu quote indicates. How else is the WS able to root out the toxic neuroses that enable them to be WS’s without also acknowledging intentionality and the abusive nature of adultery itself?

It seems almost a hateful act to pass over this and hope for the best. Hate for oneself as the BS certainly. But also hate for the WS in allowing them to continue to wallow in the mire and grime of falsehoods, shades of gray and moral turpitude unaccounted for.

MLK jr wrote of this as “strength to love” and he made a telling observation referring to Matthew 10:16...

“To have serpentlike qualities devoid of dovelike qualities is to be passionless, mean, and selfish. To have dovelike without serpentlike qualities is to be sentimental, anemic, and aimless. We must combine strongly marked antitheses.”

Also I’m puzzled as to how advocating for a societal reckoning on adultery as abuse would be anything other than a win-win for future generations.

Of course as you say BS’s must learn to institute boundaries for unacceptable and immoral behavior.

That seems part and parcel to the job of healing.

[This message edited by Thumos at 9:33 AM, October 11th (Sunday)]

Not a boomer, if that was directed at me. Born outside the 1946-1964 time frame. My dad went from 3 stripes to 1 when he showed up for work the day after he heard I was born.

** Posting as a member **

No dictionary I could find refers to adultery as a “legal term” exclusively or even solely….

Is it wrong to think a commandment is very much like a law? If ‘You shall not commit adultery’ is not a law, what is it?

You usually argue essentially for using precise language - but you seem to give yourself a pass with 'adultery.' That looks like a double standard to me, and I think double standards do more damage than over-generalizations.

If “healing” for a BS implies they can no longer see adultery as an abusive act or participate in obfuscation, equivocation or use minimizing language or morally neutral language, then something has actually gone quite wrong in my opinion.

Where on SI have you seen healing defined as anything like what you have described? I wouldn't place value on healing, if that's what 'healing' meant.

But healing, IMO, pretty much requires reaching a level of detachment from oneself, one's preconceptions, and one's WS. Neutral language may help a BS do the necessary detachment.

Healing definitely requires a BS to get to the BS's own thoughts, feelings, wants, don't wants, etc., and IMO, neutral language definitely helps a BS get to that mindset.

My XWW committed adultery. I consider it abusive. I consider all of the lying, gaslighting, risking my health, manipulation, etc. abusive which happened will committing adultery and after the DDays. I was victimized by her abuse. I am not a victim.

...

Trying to get me to think it was something less than that is offensive.

I agree that adultery is abusive. That's at least the 2nd time in this thread that I've said that, and it may be the 3rd.

I do not in any way suggest thinking infidelity is anything 'less' than abuse. I suggest thinking something 'different' and 'in addition' - and to the BS's benefit.

Look, there isn't much disagreement about d-day being traumatic. The period leading up to d-day is likely to be more of a slow grinding down than a trauma, but that's painful, too. The period after d-day - excruciating.

Healing is different for BSes depending on the options open to them and the options a BS chooses, but it takes months, at least, for the vast majority of BSes to really take in the amount of pain that's been dumped on them - and an unremorseful WS dumps still more pain on the BS during false R.

The BS is often faced with very difficult decisions - and that brings on even more pain.

None of that changes the fact that human beings can heal. If one lets go of the pain, it becomes a memory. It fades in importance. Letting go of pain opens one up to joy.

None of that changes the fact that a BS needs to take action to heal. It's obviously difficult to describe in words that in the sate of being healed one knows what one's WS did in no uncertain terms and one simultaneously has let much of the pain go.

The knowledge of what one's WS did goes into one's brain and stays there. The pain from what the WS did goes into the BS's body, but the healing BS can feel the pain and let it flow away.

It may seem paradoxical and impossible. I don't know about the paradoxical part, but I guarantee it is possible - but it requires focusing on oneself, not on what the WS did or didn't do.

Note: the brain always seems to keep some pain around, so it's impossible to get rid of all one pain, but we can process almost all of it.

s it wrong to think a commandment is very much like a law? If ‘You shall not commit adultery’ is not a law, what is it?

So you’re arguing the 10 commandments are legal restrictions.? I guess in one sense you’re right because they formed the basis for much of Western jurisprudence. Yet most theologians see them as an expression of objective morality, rather than statutory code.

You usually argue essentially for using precise language - but you seem to give yourself a pass with 'adultery.' That looks like a double standard to me, and I think double standards do more damage than over-generalizations.

Honestly I think you’ve lost the room on this one but it is your opinion and I respect it.

[This message edited by Thumos at 12:56 PM, October 11th (Sunday)]

You usually argue essentially for using precise language - but you seem to give yourself a pass with 'adultery.' That looks like a double standard to me, and I think double standards do more damage than over-generalizations.

Honestly I think you’ve lost the room on this one but it is your opinion and I respect it

The thing is that adultery means sex outside of marriage. So for a lot of people, adultery did not happen. If you never married, there is no adultery. If sex didn't happen, no adultery.

If you were married and had sex wkth someone else, adultery is the appropriate word. And it is true that "infidelity" does not have the same sting that adultery does.

BUT adultery does not describe all forms of infidelity. Cheating is maybe better. I don't know. All I know is that if uou were engsged and had kids and your spouse fucked someone else, that is not adultery. And if you've been married for 50 years and your spouse is telling someone how in love they are and can't wait to be woth them but no sex happened? Also not adultery.

So. Yeah. Adultery is not the most precise definition. Adultery is the perfect term for sex outside of marriage though.

So is the argument empathy for cheaters vs. no empathy for cheaters? Is it healed BS vs. bitter/angry BS? Is it actually love vs. hate? I can see both sides so take no real position, but it does seem that the two sides are actually two different places in the healing process more than anything else. When you are angry, it is abuse and you better not say it wasn't! When you are a hammer, everything is a nail. Understandable. Carry on ...

I can't speak for anyone other than myself, obviously. I'm not bitter. I'm honestly not. I don't hate my XWH. I would genuinely be glad to hear that he had worked on himself and become a better human being. I shared a lot of beautiful times with him and it would be neat to think that those times were real and not part of his nice guy cover. I don't wish him harm. I don't enjoy knowing that he's in a bad place. I'm not currently even angry with him.

He did abuse me, though. He absolutely did. Nothing changes that. I don't need to find nicer words or pretend that it wasn't as traumatic and horrible as it was to discover that he had cheated on me and then to discover that he had cheated so very much. That was a direct harm done to me. There is no possible justice for it. I wouldn't pursue any if there were.

The reason that I'm not angry with him is that I am indifferent to him. That is what saved me. That is what heals me. The ability to shut off my empathy for all his deep dark whatever issues that influenced him becoming a person who could do that to me absolutely saved me. I am all in favor of shutting off empathy for the "why"s in order to save oneself from trying to R with someone so deeply fucked up.

So no, that I divorced doesn't mean that I'm bitter. Thumos did a beautiful job of describing the gift of anger. My anger propelled me into saving myself. I was outraged by what he did, and rightfully so. Because I embraced anger and not empathy, I am sitting in my own house free of infidelity and strife. I am at peace today because I embraced my anger then.

I can't speak for anyone other than myself, obviously. I'm not bitter. I'm honestly not. I don't hate my XWH. I would genuinely be glad to hear that he had worked on himself and become a better human being. I shared a lot of beautiful times with him and it would be neat to think that those times were real and not part of his nice guy cover. I don't wish him harm. I don't enjoy knowing that he's in a bad place. I'm not currently even angry with him.

He did abuse me, though. He absolutely did. Nothing changes that. I don't need to find nicer words or pretend that it wasn't as traumatic and horrible as it was to discover that he had cheated on me and then to discover that he had cheated so very much. That was a direct harm done to me. There is no possible justice for it. I wouldn't pursue any if there were.

This is a very healthy attitude and to me represents at least a good way down the road to real healing. It is also dealing with the reality of the situation rather than trying to slide by it.

I feel the same way. I’ve worked a lot on the process of forgiveness for my wife especially the past two years and have reached a good place. It has been difficult in the face of what I believe is continued wayward thinking and lack of transparency but I am working on this process. Forgiveness in the face of real harm and abuse is not an epiphany, it is a process.

I find the attitude of some to this thread bizarre. We’re being raw and honest, not bitter. We’re also being open our pain but not in a negative way and by sticking with substantive and civil dialogue.

To me this is what Archbishop Tutu is referring to in the quote I placed above. He refers to the radical honesty of the Truth and Reconciliation process — which includes a true accounting that grapples with the abuse, harm, intent and more. None of those things can be left on the table for real healing to happen.

Thank you again for such a well thought out response!

it does seem that the two sides are actually two different places in the healing process more than anything else. When you are angry, it is abuse and you better not say it wasn't!

I dunno.... seems like the old what kind of A causes more pain sort of comparison thing. And I suppose as I approach the completion of year 3 I still have work to do.

And I think this pretty well sums it up for me:

A abuser owning up and acting to ensure zero reocurrence is no longer a abuser. That does not mean the earlier act was not abuse.

I believe I have a pretty good amount of empathy for my WH. I can feel his broken and I can empathize with it AND I can know in my bones that I cannot change it one bit and its existence is extremely dangerous to my well being. I have family members who have done atrocious things - from manslaughter to physical domestic abuse (some of which I've personally witnessed). And I can still love those members of my family, I can still empathize with them, AND I can support those they have harmed to get out of those toxic relationships.

I guess my icky feeling from OIN's most recent post is that it's not a zero-sum game (as I think BTDI pointed out quite nicely).

Letting go of pain opens one up to joy.

I have such respect for Sisoon, whose wise words have helped me more than once. And I suppose it' may be "just" semantics here, but for me - personally and IME - it is NEVER about "letting go" of pain.... it's about processing THROUGH it. Perhaps this goes back to the concept that some folks (ie "type A" ) may NEED to really hear and see that they have been abused in order to provide self care and compassion, etc. In any event, telling me to "let go" of pain is about the worst possible thing for my particular personality to hear.... My brain processes that as:

- you are weak or behaving in a weak fashion

- you are selfishly thinking too much about yourself

- you "should" be "over" this by now

and a whole litany of other uncompassionate and unhealthy things. Now, I've got some work under my belt and am now in a place where I can step away and try and look at those feelings through a different lens and give myself some compassion. But I sure as heck did not arrive at Dday or SI with that kind of skillset - and would be hard pressed to believe that I'm some special unicorn in this regard.

Again - EACH AND EVERY one of us arrives at Dday with the baggage of our lives, and each suitcase is packed differently with different contents. We may both have dress shirts, but mine may be wrinkled in a particular way that means it needs more work before it's "street ready". The thing is that I spent a lifetime of "letting go" of pain w/o really allowing myself to feel it or process it or learn from it. I spent a lifetime pretty well DENYING that I even had pain - I was FAR too "tough" and "strong" to allow myself to walk through that kind of door.

So for me - and I suspect many others - we must learn to allow ourselves to FEEL it before we can PROCESS it and then - and ONLY then - are we able (or would it be healthy to) "let it go". I have a TON of joy in my life. I am a huge fan of Rick Hansen and his HEAL steps (which I recommend on SI like a broken record). Reading his work was a true game changer.

I am confident that Sissoon - like most everyone on SI - is merely sharing things that have worked for him. And I'm grateful for that share, even tho the very thing that worked for him would be more of a hindrance to someone with the particular crap I've got in my baggage. Because a large part of my "work" has been to allow myself BOTH - feeling & experiencing pain and NOT trying to deny it while ALSO finding joy and knowing in my bones that I can - and will - experience both.

I write this after spending a day with my BFF of more than 40 years who is terminally ill with a very aggressive cancer. I am living in a house rife with the pain of that reality. AND we joke, we laugh, we love. We hold both the joy of our friendship and love as well as the pain of knowing it's coming to an end years earlier than either of us imagined.

I can actually find gratitude for the pain and trauma of the past almost 3 years since dday - because all of that work has brought me to this place... to this moment of my life and my BFFs... with a boundless ability for love, compassion, and even for pain.

This is what "healing" looks like to me.

[This message edited by gmc94 at 8:51 PM, October 11th, 2020 (Sunday)]

I am not in pain, nor am I bitter( I think).

What bothers me the most is the injustice. My XWW paid very little bnb price for this.