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She doesn't get it at all. She gets none of it. The improvements after the D letter were temporary flailing.

TIF, I’m wondering how you’re doing since this post? Any new behavior out of WW? I hope during these trying times that you’re finding some joy and peace this holiday season.

The fight continued pretty much all day yesterday.

Ended with WW, "Do you want a divorce, is that where this is headed? It's what you want isn't it?"

I told her, "It's not what I want, but I think it is probably the correct path forward."

WW, "What about visiting my grandma?"

Me, "I'll be there for you to support you materially with taking care of our kids and your family."

She locked herself in our room for the next hour after that. We put the boys to bed. Then I went to go watch a show. She came down to watch with me. I said that was fine. She asked if we were fine. I said no. She said she was sorry for everything. I said I know.

We did not cuddle or get intimate. We both have our wedding rings off.

I think we are on the same page, but it's too much pain for her to deal with at the same time with her grandma. We have been cordial with each other today.

We did not cuddle or get intimate. We both have our wedding rings off.

Interesting detail: I wore my wedding ring off and on the past few years but completely stopped wearing it back in August of this year. My WW has never stopped wearing her ring.

”It's what you want isn't it?"

Projection, DARVO and blameshifting all wrapped up in one line.

You should’ve said “you divorced me when you decided to have a boyfriend and pursue sexual intimacy outside the bonds of our marriage.”

I feel terrible for your WW in a way. I think it’s all going to come crashing in on her after you divorce her. She may pursue other men but within a year or so she will probably realize what she did and what she threw away. Not that she’ll admit it to you. She seems too weak and too proud to do that.

[This message edited by Thumos at 8:48 PM, December 16th (Wednesday)]

What to do?

We had already scheduled an anniversary celebration before everything went to shit. We still need a break from life and our kids. I don't really care if it is an anniversary celebration or not.

I'm trying to make it through a few more weeks to be here as material support.

WW mentioned the trip just now, "Dinner, spa, sex. Yay! Well if you are nice to me."

Me, "We'll see."

Her, "Do you want to be married or not? Shit or get off the pot."

I mean, I guess I should get off the pot, but I'm trying not to throw everything on her at once right before the holidays right before her grandmother passes. Ugh.

Her, "Do you want to be married or not? Shit or get off the pot."

Did she really say this?! You need a break from your wife. Go on the trip alone, or send her ass.

Dude, its one thing for us to say something like that to you, and for you to ignore it. But when your cheating wife says it? She is 100% showing you who she is. Thank her for her honesty and let her go.

Yes she actually said that. This is as close to a real quote as I can remember. Not meant to be a paraphrase of her intent.

Her, "Do you want to be married or not? Shit or get off the pot."

Seriously Tif. WOW. You deserve SOOOOOO much better than this.

Her, "Do you want to be married or not? Shit or get off the pot."

Well at least she keeps showing you who she is. It definitely makes leaving them much easier when they do this kind of crap.

Wow. The irony of the situation is that SHE is the one who needed to "shit or get off the pot".

You gave your WW a very clear list of needs, and they all were fair. She was the one who decided she could not/would not meet those needs.

I'd be EXTREMELY concerned though, that she is test-driving the narrative that *you* are the one who quit on the marriage. And to this end she is using the extra time from the moratorium you called due to her grandma's passing. Unless you call her out on comments such as those i.e., let her know that it was not only her affair but it was also HER lack of sustained effort in the aftermath, that will become the operating narrative moving forward.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 2:37 PM, December 18th (Friday)]

Dinner, spa, sex. Yay! Well if you are nice to me."

JFC.

Honestly, you have told her that the marriage is basically over. She continues to not believe you. And,your track record has shown her that she shouldn't.

Tell her you are done and filing. Let her deal with it. She's a big girl. She's made it clear she doesn't need you.

I get that her grandma is dying. After that, she will be mourning. After that..there will be another excuse.

Stop waiting.

Wow. The irony of the situation is that SHE is the one who needed to "shit or get off the pot".

You gave your WW a very clear list of needs, and they all were fair. She was the one who decided she could not/would not meet those needs.

I'd be EXTREMELY concerned though, that she is test-driving the narrative that *you* are the one who quit on the marriage and so well what could she do. And to this end she is using the extra time from the moratorium you called due to her grandma's passing. Unless you call her out on comments such as those i.e., let her know that it was not only her affair but it was also HER lack of sustained effort in the aftermath, that will become the narrative that family and friends think to be so.

I think it is essential that for the divorce to be amicable she has to believe she did try her best and hardest. A version where I simply, "Didn't give her a chance" is much worse than, "He asked for more than I could give." There are reasons for this that there is really no point in diving into. It's for the best though.

I don't really give a shit about narrative to family and friends. "We tried our best but it didn't work out." Is fine by me.

Her, "Do you want to be married or not? Shit or get off the pot."

She seems like a real prize. Man, after this, I don't know what you're waiting for. She doesn't value you.

ETA: There hasn't been any real celebration of our wedding anniversary since DDAY. That's my situation, not yours. I only offer it up for context. My WW wouldn't dream of trying to set up some big grand sex weekend at a spa for our anniversary. I believe my WW is remorseful, but can't bring herself to be fully transparent with me. That plus the acts during the affair are a deal breaker for me.

But my WW behaves remorsefully in all other ways. Your WW isn't showing any remorse at all. Really. None. With a comment like that, she just blew anything she has offered up out of the water.

[This message edited by Thumos at 2:50 PM, December 18th (Friday)]

Going to offer a slightly different take ; she seems to think you have moods not needs . You forgive her for no reason when you want to stay and then you get angry for no reason when you want to leave . She doesn't have to do anything to effect an outcome . This also means she doesnt GET to change the outcome because your decisions are unilateral whims ( in her view) . So you need to shit or get off the pot so she can move forward in one way or another . I dont think she meant this in a bitchy way but then I dont know her .

If you have decided you are out and not willing to tell her you are out whether its to get a better divorce settlement or for altruistic reasons ( grandma) ultimately its not a fair or honest thing to do and for that reason i think its the wrong strategy for you .

[This message edited by siracha at 4:05 PM, December 18th (Friday)]

Going to offer a slightly different take ; she seems to think you have moods not needs . You forgive her for no reason when you want to stay and then you get angry for no reason when you want to leave . She doesn't have to do anything to effect an outcome .

If you are out and not willing to tell her you are out whether its to get a better divorce settlement or for altruistic reasons ( grandma) ultimately its not a fair or honest thing to do and for that reason i think its the wrong strategy for you .

I agree with this. I actually asked her last night if she just thought I was in a mood about divorce or if I was serious. She said she believed me to be serious, but considering the surrounding conditions, I would understand if she actually just thinks it's a mood.

As for the timing. I don't know what is ultimately the most fair and honest thing to do. I thought I was going to file in August. I tried the limbo thing. We are where we are... Why not wait until after the new year so at least the divorce-a-versary isn't during the holidays... I get that it isn't fully honest and transparent to say, "It's not what I want, but I think divorce is probably the correct path forward." That's the current status though. I haven't indicated any change from that statement.

This0Is0Fine, does your WW seem to be clear that the reason why you want divorce is due to her lack of action to help make you feel safe in the marriage? OR at least, does she at least acknowledge that her action/effort has been lacking.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 4:07 PM, December 18th (Friday)]

This0Is0Fine, does your WW seem to be clear that the reason why you want divorce is due to her lack of action to fix the marriage? OR at least, does she at least acknowledge that her action has been lacking.

She understands clearly that there is a gap between what she has done and what I need to feel safe. "Frankly it hasn't been enough" is something I have said.

She has not acknowledged that she believes her actions to be lacking.

Wait until January for the reasons you gave about not divorcing during the holidays.

Then make a decision and get busy divorcing or... I'm not sure what the alternative is they way you've described your wife, reconciling as best you can.

You want to be continuing your life like this Xmas 2021?

I edited my post a little , but sounds like you are seeing this the same way i am . She wasnt being nasty , she really needs clarity

Again, i know this will hurt her and you but my two cents - give her clarity ultimately thats the right way forward . You dont have to move out asap you can mutually decide to spend the holidays togethers as amicable ex -es

Unless you call her out on comments such as those i.e., let her know that it was not only her affair but it was also HER lack of sustained effort in the aftermath, that will become the operating narrative moving forward.

Even if you call them out might not change the narrative. You basically have to not give a rats ass about any of their narratives. My STBX is blaming me for ending the M since I'm the one who left and filed for legal separation. Doesn't matter what he did to cause me to do that. Sometimes a WS has their own smear campaign like mine does and there is nothing I can do about it but ignore. It's also better when you aren't mutual friends with their friends because then it doesn't matter what is said as I'm not really friends with them.

This0Is0Fine, I am curious about how she feels about her own actions, her own actions to save the marriage. I mean, her wayward friends--and wayward sister--do set a rather low bar of an example of how spouses should be treating each other, and in particular how wives should be treating their husbands.

If she cannot see where you are coming from--and perhaps even if she can, I am concerned that the divorce will be especially nasty.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 4:17 PM, December 18th (Friday)]