SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I've known for certain for six weeks with highly credible suspicions going back a year. I finally got the beginnings of an admission 3 days ago. I'm M(52)and my wife(52), we’ve been married for 12 years, together 15, and raised children in a combined household. I didn't just think it was a good marriage, I thought we had the best marriage. I was extremely happy and believed her the best person I knew. I believed her to be happy. We have sex several times a week or more. I’ve lost about 30% of my hair, but I have kept muscular. I never felt insecure, but for the first time in my life I’m questioning myself. I’m wondering where I’ve fallen short as a man. I own my own business and provide extremely well. We have gone through a couple of tough years, her mother was dying and needed an extreme amount of care. It was taxing on my wife and I did all I could to support her. I never believed I was perfect, but I was attentive, listened, and I had her back always. I never allowed her to run over me, I demanded equality in the marriage, and stood up for myself when needed. Nobody respects a pushover and I thought I was the type of husband a wife could respect. I was dead wrong. I prioritized our marriage over business and anything else.

I believed we could triumph over anything the world could throw at us and there was no reason for an affair. My view on affairs was that it was possible for anyone to have one, so I wouldn’t allow myself to get into bad situations, and that the cost of an affair was too great. I didn’t feel like a saint, it was just rational and right. I had opportunities, but why risk a great marriage or hurting someone you love with lies? I’ve read many forums, but this has been far more devastating than I ever imagined, I haven’t eaten for three days (I fast occasionally, but I’m not fasting, everything just looks like turd), and have slept just a few hours each night. My suspicions were far less than the truth. The admissions included a one-night stand, as well as a two year “text affair” that culminated in another one night sex meet-up in Dallas Texas with a former co-worker she knew for over a decade. There have been several days of the typical lies, half-truths, obfuscations, and gaslighting.

I knew a few facts, but when I disclosed a fact, her limited admission would match the fact, but never one bit more. Anyone relate? It’s infuriating. I’d read about a confrontation approach to make telling lies worse than telling the truth. I had a few facts at my command, I knew one weekend that she’d certainly slept with the AP (though I thought this was a one night stand and was blindsided by the admission of a prolonged affair), and I knew of a long-ago flirtation that ended with him in her hotel room, and then I had a few “maybe” items that had circumstantial evidence of other possible old flings/sexting, these were mostly from text I’d seen that were later deleted. Not enough to prove an affair, but proof of deleting inappropriate texts. Other odds and ends. I was truthful in letting her know that I had a few facts of her infidelity. She said she wanted to save the marriage. So I told her that I’d make every attempt to save the marriage, but that I expected her to tell me everything, everything from our entire marriage, and most especially every detail about the AP. I told her that if something didn’t match what I knew, then it was divorce.

She ended up detailing a two-year run up of sexting and flirtations, admitting that she initiated advancing the friendship into an affair, initiated the sexting, shared nude photos, planned a night, and followed through. She opened up her phone records for me, although I could see the date/time of texts and calls, on-line TMobile does not keep content, but I read you could do a restore that would restore all deleted texts. Obviously she’d been deleting incriminating texts from her phone. I’ve not asked to do this yet, but there are moments I want to see the deleted texts.

The records show all manner of disrespect. Me trying to call, but her not taking the calls as she’s involved in the sexting. Her waking up and texting him when I’m in the other room. Long text exchanges when I’ve gone to do something, like taking my dad to a doctors appointment and she engaged in several hours of texting. She texted him as much as she texted me. I suppose it’s all routine betrayal, but it was intimate and premeditated. In the beginning she refused to call it an affair. I told her fine, I’d do everything she did except not sleep with the person, and she can put whatever name on it she pleased. We agreed to the word affair.

Where I am now is I have what appears to be a thorough admission of the 2 year affair. The new disclosure of the man she picked up in a hotel bar for a one-night stand. I did not get any admission on old suspicions and partial facts I had. Where there is smoke, there is fire, and I refuse to be gullible. She has given up the AP, sending a text and blocking. She says she wants to save our marriage. She says he does not matter, she is not in love with him, she was “thrill seeking”. She is now answering questions with some ease and it feels genuine. The problem of course is that I’ve learned a terrible truth: her lying face looks exactly like her truthful face. Regardless, the facts and timeline match what I feel to be true. I made a promise to commit to working on our marriage, but I’m not sure she has satisfied my suspicions and I’m having a difficult time reconciling that she never admitted to what I know to be inappropriate behaviours early in our marriage. How important is resolving older suspicions? I just don’t know.

I’m going hour by hour right now. My state of mind is that I look around at the life we built and I’m not sure that it’s meant the same to her as me. I don’t know what is true or false about the past. It’s like the entire earth shifted beneath my feet and there is nothing but smoking rubble around me. She wants to talk about the future and I’m looking around and trying to figure out what survived the blast. I’m exhausted and I don’t want to make decisions.

Apparition, you've been heard. Sorry to find yourself here, friend. Tough story to read.

She sounds like she took a vacation.

First things first...take care of yourself. Food rest, exercise, keep it going.

Second, hit pause on the "I promise to work on the marriage" button. It does no one favors to commit early. That shortcuts a whole bunch of things that need to come to pass, and puts them off longer that necessary. you'll learn.

You've lost control of your life, you got dropped into an emotional jungle. Near term steps are all about taking control. You're off to a good start, so keep it up.

Last piece of advice is to see a lawyer immediately. Inform yourself of your rights and responsibilities. Knowledge is power, and power is control.

Sending strength!

The problem of course is that I’ve learned a terrible truth: her lying face looks exactly like her truthful face

Yes I remember this being one of the first revelations. How easily they lie, and how convincing they are.

I would recommend that you ask her to write out a detailed timeline in her own hand on paper. Many pages in length. Details. Committing it to writing stops the “which lie did I tell” phenomenon and makes it difficult to continually shade or shift the story.

Second, take her phone and run recovery software. Dr Fone is preferred these days I believe.

Third put a VAR in her car to see how she’s talking to her mother or friends about your discovery. These conversations will be revelatory. And you’ll also learn what else she is up to.

Lastly schedule a polygraph to test her written timeline. Her reaction to scheduling it will tell you a lot. You may get a parking lot confession on the way. A polygraph can also test your older suspicions.

I would be remiss if I failed to mention that multiple instances of serial cheater behavior and a long term affair is a lot to try to come back from. It sounds like you married a serial cheater addicted to the thrill. hard to “cure”

Have you been tested for STDs? Has she? Needs to happen pronto.

I made a promise to commit to working on our marriage, but I’m not sure she has satisfied my suspicions and I’m having a difficult time reconciling that she never admitted to what I know to be inappropriate behaviours early in our marriage

OP, read this sentence aloud back to yourself a few times and start imagining the words come from a stranger.

How would you react to this statement? What would you tell this person?

Thumos is spot on. He knows from experience. He sat on not getting a polygraph for years and now he's divorcing in part because his WW failed one when he finally asked for it.

How important is resolving older suspicions? I just don’t know.

Well, how would you feel if there were OM that could be people you know? Friends? Family members? Coworkers? How about secret pregnancies and abortions? How about if she invited a past OM into your home or slept with one in your bed? Would knowing she had as many as 50 OM change things for you? As farfetched as many of these sound - every single one has happened to a poster on this site or one I know from another infidelity forum. Every single one is a possibility for you to find out. If she did any of the above and it wouldn't matter to you, maybe you don't need to dig but if even one would potentially make or break the marriage for you, absolutely do everything Thumos outlines and make sure that you have the truth.

What also matters is that your WW comes clean to herself. She can't find true remorse if she is still lying and hiding things from you. If you decide you don't need the details, that's okay but if she says something didn't happen when it did, she's not R material. Remorse is about putting your first above herself and she can't do that while she chooses to lie to you instead of come clean.

I'm so sorry you're here.

So many of us know the pain. Of being ripped in half by your heart and your head. You need to first and foremost keep taking care of yourself. Eat healthy, drink plenty of water, try to get sleep (that can be the hardest and will cycle with your anxiety).

"I’ve learned a terrible truth: her lying face looks exactly like her truthful face."

This is one of the worst sentences I've seen on this forum to be perfectly honest. I know some people deal with good liars. My WW is a liar, but she was never super good at it. It's an uphill battle to rebuild trust and you both need to be in it. Do not settle for half measures. Plenty of us have, and it doesn't lead to satisfactory conditions long term.

Figure out what you need in life and how to get out of infidelity. I don't think I really *got* much of the advice when I first arrived here.

None of this is your fault. You were not an insufficient husband or man. Your wife is 100% at fault for choosing to cheat. Even if you were the worst husband on the planet, she could leave, or confront the issues and needs in other ways. I really feel for you. For some reason your story is hitting me harder than others on here. You will get through this.

her lying face looks exactly like her truthful face.

Man, that sounds like a song lyric. :(

When I learned that it was like turning a page regarding my trust for my XWW.

You are in for a long rough road my friend but have a good support system here...we know a lot because we've seen a lot to quote some commercial.

You are getting good advice from the veterans - I wish I knew about SI when I was in a similar situation. For one I would not of done the pick-me dance.

A polygraph test is a must. Seeing a lawyer is a must. Do not offer R so quickly. Let your head absorb what has happened. It sounds like you two had a good marriage. She decided to have some excitement. Her choice was to have the excitement at the risk of getting caught. Any way you slice it, she devalued you, the marriage, and the family. I was cheated on and agreed to keep going with the marriage. It was a bad bet which I regretted making several years later. To top off your story, you refer to inappropriate behavior early in your marriage. Wow. Sounds like she has been living a separate life from yours for quite some time. Better get all of this straightened out. Again, a polygraph is a must.

Sorry, you are here. Good luck to you. Do not let fear guide your decisions. IC for both is also something to seriously consider. I'd leave, but my conclusion is based on experience and a pledge to myself that I would not allow anyone to debase me again. Her earlier behavior raises the spector of a serial cheater.

[This message edited by src9043 at 5:34 PM, October 28th (Wednesday)]

Apparition,

I am very sorry that you had need to go looking or a place like this, but I am glad that you found it.

You are very close to the discovery of the infidelity, and there is chance that you may be in a state of shock. It can hit a person in a variety of ways, sometimes quickly, sometimes over the course of a few weeks.

So the number one priority right now is not making any big decisions, but care for your physical and mental well-being.

Please make sure you are hydrating yourself, and if you feel like you cannot eat anything like a meal, please try to eat smaller things a few times a day. Some people even use nutrition bars and other diet foods, because they can provide a good range of vitamins and minerals when bigger meals are not an option.

Please do not make any more promises, and equally, do not feel honour/duty bound by any that you may have made in a state of shock.

Right now you owe your wife no assurances or guarantees whatsoever, because these are early days, and it takes time for people to analyze things and work out what they want.

So I would recommend cancelling those promises about working on the marriage, and any talk of the future, and tell your wife that all bets are off until she provides the information you require, and you have had time to digest it and consider your options.

Think of it this way; if you promise to work on the marriage immediately, your wife has no reason to reveal more, and good reason not to reveal anything that damages her. If you tell her it is all over, and divorce is happening, she has no reason to reveal more.

However, if you say something like, "If you provide the information I need, and if I think you have been honest, and gone the extra mile, then I will consider working on the marriage".

That puts the onus on her to be co-operative if she wants to save the marriage, and it gives you control over what is acceptable to you.

And I repeat: no talk about the future, and no more promises.

Look after your physical and mental well-being. Give yourself time for the initial impact to pass, because you cannot make any big decisions in the state you are in. None of us could.

When you begin to feel like the world has stopped spinning, you can start to work out what you need, and how best to get it. There are many things that will be suggested to you, and you can pick and choose what feels right to you.

A big plus of anonymous forums like this one is that you can talk about all kinds of things that you might not feel able to share with people close to you, though if you do have a good friend or confidante that you talk to, they can become a great ally and support for you.

Our thoughts and best wishes are with you, Apparition.

Man, that sounds like a song lyric. :(

Not too far off:

You can't hide your lyin' eyes

There ain't no way to hide your lyin' eyes

So sorry, first and foremost, cheaters lie, they lie a lot and will continue to lie. Their excuse is to stop you being hurt, in reality it is to protect her self and her APs.

As you feel she is giving you minimal information, do the text, email recovery program. Even if you have to pay for computer tech or another service provider. You need the full information to make a call.

Please stop committing to the marriage, until you know what you need to know. If your gut is telling you there is more. LISTEN to it, it is your sub conscious.

As advised, STD and STI checks, have her move out of the master bedroom until the medical checks come back and that she isn't pregnant.

Exercise, eat healthy and drink water. Seek legal advice for your location you need to know your rights, her responsibilities and the affect on your business.

Take your time in making a commitment for R. She was in a two year relationship, a couple of one night stands. She was able to do this when everything was great in the marriage. Remember her lying face. She needs IC for herself and you need to talk to your GP you need sleep,IC as well.

Hold off on any MC until you get to the rout of her reasons. MC and some aren't a specialist in infidelity; they tend to get you to work on winning your wife back.

If she was able for two years to chase him the thrill of the hunt, the first touch, then kiss.

There is more to her.She lied, made the conscious decision to cheat.

Can I ask what got your radar up?

One day at a time.

[This message edited by Buffer at 6:32 PM, October 28th (Wednesday)]

She decided to have some excitement. Her choice was to have the excitement at the risk of getting caught. Any way you slice it, she devalued you, the marriage, and the family.

src9043 is right about her motives and the outcome. It takes some time for this to sink in, but you will realize he is correct about her choices.

It's really very sad when they do this, but they understood precisely what they were doing and why they were doing it.

It is abuse and it is intentional. They intended to do it. They thought about it. They did it. They liked it. And they were arrogant and entitled enough to think they wouldn't be caught ("what he doesn't know won't hurt him").

So very often, the moment they are caught, they suddenly swear on their graves their undying love for you and how desperately they want to "save the marriage."

Happens over and over. On some level it's true. On many other levels, it pays to be very observant and extremely skeptical.

Also, don't beat yourself up about the fact that this happened in the middle of a good marriage. Unfortunately, it is becoming increasingly apparent that adultery in the midst of good marriages is probably more common than happening in bad marriages.

But if the marriage was good, just know you were a faithful loyal partner, it wasn't in your imagination and you can easily have another good marriage with a different woman who won't do this to you.

[This message edited by Thumos at 5:53 PM, October 28th (Wednesday)]

The problem is she's an accomplished liar. I wonder if she realizes what kind of a position that puts you in?

And, she's bloody selfish. Very sneaky, too.

As mentioned earlier, I'd demand a detailed timeline - who, what, when, where. Once you have that you might be in a better position to decide what's best for you. I'd also talk to a lawyer to understand what would happen in a separation and a divorce.

Try to get some strenuous exercise regularly to burn off stress, and to wear you out to help you sleep.

You're in a tough spot, so take some time don't rush a decision. If she wants things cleared up sooner rather than later, too bad.

As to her behaviour early in your relationship ask her to explain it, how do you verify that though? A polygraph is a thought

I’m in law enforcement. Let me tell you that the interrogation and cross examination writes itself. Cmon. She’s in a two year affair but they only meet up once. Trust me, it doesn’t work that way. A person can travel 2000 miles in a few hours. She’s sending nudes of herself. But they only met once? Seriously? Ok. Why send nudes? And by the way, what does that mean? What exactly was she doing? 1950s playboy centerfold or 2020 net porn? And why does she think she is not already all over the net? Because her fuck buddy loves her so he would never do that.

And she fucked a stranger She met in a bar once? Before the affair? During? Ok. Why exactly?

I’m not being harsh. I’m being real. You think the M has been beyond perfect. She has been behaving like a tramp. And now we see that you are suspecting her actions years earlier.

And she is talking about the future? As in what you can do for her?

Find your rage. You gave her all the power when you instantly agreed to not dumping her. She has no incentive whatsoever to be truthful.

She want to save the marriage. Fine. How? By promising not to do it again?

You are never going to be free of this anxiety on you current course. Go nuclear. Make her prove it. Put the burden on her. She can get you her phone data. You don’t have to accept crumbs. She should be begging you to take a poly, not the other way around.

The one truthful thing she told you is that she is the predator in her trysts. She still is in cougar mode and thinks you will accept whatever she dishes out. Find your anger. Start the divorce and see how she reacts. Take some control back and see how it works for you.

I too had “the best of marriages”. It doesn’t matter to cheaters. You could be Mathew McConaughey, Jonah Falcon, Jack Dorsey and Dr Phil all rolled together and she’d still cheat on you. It’s in their nature. It’s about them. It’s not about you or the marriage.

You’re in no position right now to make promises regarding reconciliation and, she is no position to ask of it. You’re in total shock and, she still has a lot to disclose and personal issues to unearth and resolve. You’re about to go through all the phases of PTSD and grief mourning the loss of your marriage-as you knew it. Denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance. Do not let the bargaining and denial phases compromise you.

Bargaining results in you playing the pick-me dance, groveling and allowing yourself to be a door mat. Denial results in rug sweeping. To save your marriage you must be willing to throw it away. You must be willing to take it to the brink before ever allowing yourself to be compromised, manipulated, or except anything less than true reconciliation.

Your wife’s manner and style of cheating is very typical. Her behavior having been discovered is text book typical. She will only confess to the absolute bare minimum she can get away with. Truth will come in trickles. Full disclosure is necessary before you can commit to R. You need to make INFORMED decisions and a commitment to R is the biggest decision and gamble of your life.

Your WW too will go through various stages having been discovered and confronted: Damage Control, Trickle Truthing, Minimizing, Negotiating, Tears and Snot, Love Bombing, Sex Bombing, Justification & Rationalizing, Rewriting of Marital History, Victimization of Self. Some WS’s, especially those still in the Affair Bubble, will: Counter Assault, Gas Light, Cake Eat, Demonization of the Betrayed Spouse, Take The Affair Underground.

You’re about to go for quite a ride, but still...

maintain situational awareness. Even though your emotions are all over the place, maintain situational awareness and self respect and control. Maintain your dignity. Plot a methodical course through this shit storm with the advice you’re about to absorb from this very experienced collective that has taught me so much.

PS:

Put a VAR in her car to see how she’s talking to her mother or friends about your discovery. These conversations will be revelatory. And you’ll also learn what else she is up to

THIS, is really important. My ExWW had two faces. One was VERY convincingly anguished and seemingly remorseful the other, was a shit talking, defiant little... She’d talk to me one way, and to her enabling friends totally another.

[This message edited by RealityBlows at 7:31 PM, October 28th (Wednesday)]

Dude, THIS!!!!

And she is talking about the future? As in what you can do for her?

When you are dealing with a spouse who has engaged in a long term affair.. by that I mean more than a year-- who gets caught and promises you the moon, sun and stars to "save her marriage". Hmm. First of all nail her on what "she will do anything to save this marriage" means. Get her to define what anything is.

Otherwise, what, exactly, does she bring to the marriage? I can tell you what I'd say to that, but this is based on my own shabby life experience. She'd bring: stress, distrust, anxiety and a looming need to double check her for the rest of time. You really need to get her to answer this question. How can she "sell you" on saving the marriage? What will YOU get out of that outcome? You were the one wounded here, what outcome satisfies you.

Lastly, and I'll say this very very gently. You will not get that "Best of Marriage" back. The Marriage you cherished, that you were happy with, that was either destroyed or it never was. Based solely on your post, I think you've maintained a realistic viewpoint of your marriage's strengths and weaknesses. It was not your fault. Your marriage did not fail out of something you did or did not do. Your marriage failed because there was something lacking in your spouse's moral or ethical makeup.

I don't know the best way to follow up in the forum, apologies in advance if I'm missing some protocol. First, I want to say that it makes me feel just a bit better to not be alone with my thoughts. Thank you for sending your strength, thank you for saying I've been enough of a man and it wasn't my fault. It's a mana I didn't expect

I feel like a ghost. Nobody knows in my life, I haven't told any friends, and I'm invisible. That makes finding this place all the more meaningful. Someone asked me in the responses what made my radar go up. Initially, nothing, just an intuition. If it was something, I still can't put my finger on it. My radar was up for weeks. Then we were getting ready for a trip out of town and she had a scheduled trip for the weekend just prior that she insisted she wanted to be alone. That wasn't terrible, I've wanted alone time. But there was a stink on it, and little actions: she did all the preparations a woman does when she's going to get laid. She tried to do so covertly, but wasn't successful.

And then I thought perhaps it was a one night stand, really bad and I had prepared myself as best I could for that admission, but her reaction after I insisted I knew just gave her away. If it makes any sense the severity of her cover up revealed that there was a much more involved affair. There were so many lies in such a short period of time, it was a storm of lies. But, it was only a feeling I had about her responses that kept me going and had me devise my partially successful ultimatum. I consider it a mistake now. I'm being told by her now that I know everything and my feelings are lying to me. She keeps telling me she's sorry she "broke me" in response to me asking her questions. It's like she's taking responsibility on the surface, but actually she's telling me I'm crazy. My feelings and my own logic is all I have right now.

I have not been tested for STD. No condom was involved in either of the disclosed incidence. So that is forced onto my to do list.

Anyway, I'm reading the responses over and over (three times already). I'm taking some of the advice and considering the rest. I have pulled back my promise to work on it. It was too soon. My place now is no decision. Just take an hour at a time. God Bless you all, really and truly.

It's like she's taking responsibility on the surface, but actually she's telling me I'm crazy.

Gaslighting. It's "cheater 101."

Good on ya mate. Take back your power. Take back your life.

We’ve been where you are. We get it.

Don’t feel like a ghost. Exposure is the best affair killer.

Go nuclear!