SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Just breath, look inside yourself, listen and take your time in making any R or D choice.

Or just, you know, be done.

She is unsafe at any speed

Or just, you know, be done.

She is unsafe at any speed

Yeah, I'm really sorry OP, but there is no hope here.

This far down... she has the lifestyle she wants. To have it both ways is what she wants. I won't even get into ethics, "sex addiction", whatever. She's always going to want something on the side, the thrill. Let her have that, just not with you. Your only play ever with her would just be to look the other way, pretend she's something else.

Cyprian. Nice. Not to t/j, but reading Thumos' stuff has helped build my vocabulary.

👍🏼 I aim to please.

I've been up since 1:30 am and still with little sleep since DDay. I did some forensics on phone records and emerged with new questions: likely some new infidelity and the revelation she's sent nudes to at least the main AP. I've been reading the forums and the responses. I understand advice to just call it, given the depth and breadth of her infidelity and her inability to make full disclosure so far. I've "decided", or rather, I'm attempting to make disclosure a process and have no more "this is all of it" conversations. I love my wife, I value the life we built, and I've not let go of it. Her children are my children now and I have loving and close relationships I'd lose.

Something struck me in one of the comments, is she my wife or a fantasy of the wife I had? I'd have to say that my wife died the day I found out about the AP. I'm trying to figure out who this woman is right now. I look at her and see the woman I invested my entire being, perhaps too much of myself. But at the same time I see a new woman and I don't know what to make of this woman that would hurt me over and over. There have been apologies from her. There have been disclosures that I might never have discovered. There has been promises about behavior and self examination - therapy to get to the bottom of her own failures. Couples therapy. New phone with complete access and open devices. I don't know what to think of it all right now. I'm staying, trying to remain calm, and participating in R. Is it too early to accept R? Yes. I want the process of disclosure to play out and am giving that some time.

I have not gone the route of polygraph. I have asked for a detailed timeline. I have not restored her phone, just online forensics. I have not yet gotten access (but will) to one known email. I will fine tooth comb her phone today, even though she had a burner phone. Indications are she was careless, so I'm going to see what there is to see.

I know this all sounds garbled. But I'm a garbled person now. Thanks again all.

Did you take an appointment with a doctor? She put your health at risk.

Everything you are experiencing is normal. It’s like a bomb went off in your life and everything you thought you knew is shattered. It’s an emotional trauma. Take care of you. Get tested for STD’s. You’ve got to get through the pain. Get into IC for you. Betrayal trauma is real.

[This message edited by fareast at 7:53 AM, October 31st (Saturday)]

How many days are you willing to spend having her tell you you're crazy for suspecting more? How long do you think it's going to be before she starts getting angry that you haven't gotten over it? It's only been a few days since DDay and she's already trying to gaslight you for not trusting her. She's offering you complete access to her phone now, but how long do you think that'll last before she claims enough time has passed and you need to trust her again? You've told her multiple times that if you find out she's hiding something more from you, you'll divorce. And then you found out more. And then you drew another line in the sand and said "this time I mean it."

And then you found out more.

And then the next day when you continued to ask questions, she continued to tell you you're crazy and she obviously has nothing else to hide.

And now you say you're not going to even try and pretend there will be consiquences for her if you find out she's lying anymore.

You know that there were more than three guys. You know she's still lying to you. But now you've already decided that no matter what you find, you're going to continue to be her whipping boy. Because you've accepted that you weren't strong enough to walk away the first, second or third time you told yourself you would, so you've convinced yourself that it's because the marriage is worth fighting for, and not because your ego won't accept that she isn't willing to fight for your marriage.

You're the only one fighting for your marriage right now. And what that tells her is that she's worth fighting for despite the disrespect she showed and is showing for you. It tells her that she doesn't have to work to save her marriage. That all she has to do is keep telling you you're crazy until you get tired of digging and the heat does down. Because she knows now that you'll never leave her. Not if she continues lying about past affairs. Not if she continues telling you you're a bad person for not trusting your wife. And eventually, she'll convince herself you won't leave even if she gets caught cheating again.

Please divorce this woman.

I'm trying to figure out who this woman is right now. I look at her and see the woman I invested my entire being, perhaps too much of myself. But at the same time I see a new woman and I don't know what to make of this woman that would hurt me over and over.

It’s crazy, isn’t it?

She is the star of her life story, and you are a supporting actor. You AND your kids. When she goes prowling, you all get sent to your mental compartment in her head to wait patiently while she enjoys her spree.

Right now, your interactions with her are extraordinarily charged. Everything she says, you immediately evaluate in terms of you and your family. Necessarily so! But that perspective hides the truth. You constantly look at the difference between who you thought she was, and this person in front of you. That’s not the same as just looking and seeing.

Practice just seeing her As She Is, without that charge. See her from the perspective of disinterested observer seeing her for the first time. Your mind will fight it, but give yourself permission to set aside the emotion and just watch, free from instantly assessing it as “what does this mean to me”. A little bit here, a little bit there.

You are perfectly normal and doing fine, Apparition, even if it doesn’t feel like it.

Sending strength!

Take your time. You are bright. You will figure this out.

And then you found out more.

And then the next day when you continued to ask questions, she continued to tell you you're crazy and she obviously has nothing else to hide.

And now you say you're not going to even try and pretend there will be consiquences for her if you find out she's lying anymore.

It reminds me of the Monty Python skit, "A Minute Past."

I'm trying to figure out who this woman is right now. I look at her and see the woman I invested my entire being, perhaps too much of myself. But at the same time I see a new woman and I don't know what to make of this woman that would hurt me over and over.

I'll clear it up for you - this is the same woman you've been married to all along. You just didn't know it. Now you do. What are you going to do with this information?

Ditto on taking your time for the moment.

Keep reading the info here. You need some time to absorb this. Keep meeting with counselors. If one isn't available and you need one quickly, try another. I went to a few plus a priest. I also found a crisis group that focused on infidelity.

As soon as you feel you need to, tell someone close to you that you know. It will be like letting the steam out of the kettle, I promise, more so than with a counselor. Make it someone you really trust that has your back individually.

Keep eating healthy as much as possible. So sorry this has happened to you. Take care.

[This message edited by Anna123 at 9:31 AM, October 31st (Saturday)]

New phone with complete access and open devices.

Apparition

So now you have a list of devices she will never use to contact sex partners.

If you stay with her you’ll have a full time job as her warden checking up on her. She’s already a pro with a burner phone and can lie like a champ.

That will drive you crazy because no matter what you do you’ll never be 100% sure she’s not fooling around again.

Michigan

It’s a positive sign when a WS volunteers to give the BS access to all of their devices. But it’s merely symbolic.

With all of the ways to contact people today it would take the CIA to monitor her effectively.

So don’t stress yourself out checking everything because “the juice isn’t worth the squeeze”. The simplest way is a burner phone and she’s already a pro with that.

Plus, let’s say by some miracle all of your hard work pays off and you find something. What are you going to do then? My bet is that you will draw a new line in the sand. You're too much of a family man and your innate goodness is being used against you.

My point is that checking up on her is a lot of stressful work for you. If you find nothing it will give you a false sense of security. If you find something you will come up with an excuse not to divorce her.

So just don’t do it in the first place.

[This message edited by Michigan at 1:43 PM, October 31st (Saturday)]

The real question here is how will it be possible for you to have a happy future relationship with her?

It’s hard enough for people when they discover one AP, never mind multiple ones. Your WW has (it appears) behaved this way for a long time, in her first marriage, over the years in this one. People rarely change overnight, especially with long-established behaviours such as this. She is now accomplished at lying and hiding her activities. How will you be able to trust her now and 5, 10 years down the line? What will that look like?

Good Morning (((Apparition)))

I also had a serial cheating wife that would use all of her business trips to find men at hotel bars and pools. She also used AFF to get involved with couples.

Apparition I stuck it out for years in order to raise my daughter. I am glad I did that, but I also believed my WW could and would change. Hell I was good to her, I was good to everyone, like you I owned a business and provided well. The consent questioning myself drove me crazy, "why was I not enough".

What I learned was you can not give a moral compass to someone that doesn't have one, my WW even tried IC, church, the bible. She just did not have a moral compass and she just kept cheating and got better at hiding it.

Most of us have a compass that leads our path, we might trip and fall but we know the right way. A few people like my EXWW just don't have that and never will. She might follow the correct path for a time but eventually she will get lost in the woods without a compass again.

I do believe in R, I do believe we all trip on our path and can be given a second chance but some people are just lost. When most of us trip we don't fall on or into genitalia.

I suggest you separate for a time, use this time for YOU. She will likely have a new boy toy in a week or two.

I say all this as gently as you can read it. I know how painful this is.

Respectfully,

Orgainic2003

[This message edited by Organic2003 at 12:02 PM, October 31st, 2020 (Saturday)]

I started this journey in much the same place as you.

I urge you to talk to a lawyer.

You haven't found out all of the truth yet.

You may never know everything.

But you already know enough.

I'm so sorry for you, my heart breaks when I hear this story that sounds so damn familiar.

Find yourself, the you that existed before you married this woman. You will need his strength.

Don't spend energy trying to fix her, it will be wasted. Only she can change herself.

She does not value you the way you value her.

Apparition,

You have a serial cheater on your hands. She cheated on her first husband and she's cheated on YOU multiple times...let me tell you a story. My story;

My 1st wife was 18 when we met. I was 24. We dated for 4 months when she & a friend moved into an apartment. I started staying regularly (no big deal, normal). We got married not long after (that was VERY dumb). At some point, just before we got married, she cheated with me on my then best friend. I didn't find out until a month AFTER we got married. I should have left then. But stupidly, I didn't. Over the next 4 years, we struggled to keep our heads above water...and moved to a state capital/university town in the deep south. I started working in restaurants and tried to go to school when we could afford to pay for a semester (this was when it was VERY difficult to get financial aid). After 4 years, and the birth of our daughter (who for the 1st 10 years of her life, I was never sure she was mine--DNA tests were unheard of then--as she didn't look like ANY of my nieces & nephews).

After we divorced, she moved in with my then best friend (it took me 2 months to discover he was living there as he was never there when I picked up or dropped off my daughter). That's when I began to find out that my XWW had fucked at least 10 different men over the 4 years we were married. She was married to Husband #2 for 10 years...and cheated on him with at least 30 different men. At one point, I had guys asking me if it was ok if they fucked my XWW! After she got tired of #2, she monkey branched to #3...and has cheated on him at least 10 times in the 20 or so years they've been married.

For years, I never knew if my daughter was mine, until I met my sister's daughter (sister is nearest in age to me, 4 boys 1 girl--I am the youngest). They could be identical twins! IJ showed my niece a pic of my daughter @ the same age and niece said "that's me!" But any way...

Serials NEVER EVER STOP CHEATING. Get a lawyer and RUN! I understand that you love this woman, but the woman you love simply doesn't exist outside your mind. I haven't spoken to my XWW since our daughter turned 18...and I thank G-d every day I'm no longer with her.

I know exactly how you feel. I strongly urge you to start using the 180. Here's a link to it from the Healing Library in the yellow box in the upper left corner,

https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/healing_library/confrontation/understanding-the-180.asp

If you start doing that, very shortly you'll feel a load lift from your shoulders. It's not pefect, but it does work. I don't think that your WW is a candidate for Reconciliation. She's a serial cheater...and that won't ever change. They seem to get a huge rush from cheating...and never lose the desire for that high.

I hope that you make it through infidelity and come out the other side in one piece, but if you stay with her, you're in for a lot of pain. Good luck & G-d Speed, sir.

Apparition,

You are reeling and in shock right now and very raw--truly one of the worst feelings in the world. I remember the 1st, 2nd, and on D days.

If it gives you something to do and something concrete to focus on, I say keep digging up the evidence.

However, I would offer 3 pieces of advice (one that I followed and two that I wish someone had given me):

The one I followed: take breaks for self care. You need and deserve these breaks. Walk, work out, watch a movie, go for a drive...whatever gives YOU pleasure. Look for small moments of joy and peace wherever you can find them. These self-care breaks are surprisingly empowering. Hell ya, you deserve to spend time on YOU.

The advice I wish I'd known:

1) Gather the evidence, but stop showing your hand and asking her for the truth. It can take even truly remorseful cheaters some time to wrestle with themselves and be ready to lay the truth bare--often only after serious and earnest individual and couples counseling. Many cheaters can/will never tell the full truth. As you are already experiencing, the trickle truth only further damages your trust.

As other posters have suggested, you may find all you need to make your decisions--whether she admits it or not. If you want to try for reconciliation in the future, you will hold a ton of cards with which to judge her "new" honesty. You know enough right now to know that 1) you can't trust her at this point, and 2) you need to protect yourself emotionally and probably legally from more damage right now.

Since you are raw and reeling, remind yourself that it's okay not to make any permanent decisions right now. Give yourself time to adjust to this awful new understanding of reality and time to decide what to do from here.

2) Separate yourself from her at least within your own house. If you are worried that this will cause you to have to tell others (kids, other family, friends) make up an excuse: you aren't sleeping well and don't want to keep her up, your back has been acting up, whatever it takes to give you some space and to let her know THIS IS SERIOUS and you are really ready to care for yourself and set some personal boundaries. If you are worried that she will take this as further opportunity or even justification to continue online or physical infidelity...then I guess your decision will likely be crystal clear. And you should put her on notice that one clear boundary right now is that any further cheating through any method will be seen as a clear sign that the two of you will not reconcile.

Wishing this would be easier for you...but we empathize with the pain you are experiencing and I hope that is some small comfort.

I'd like to apologize for each of you that gave advice that I did not accept and was not ready to accept. I did not respect the process. I did not respect your advice. I'm sorry. I was trying to do too much. I was trying to understand what she did, why she did it, and when she did it. I was trying to understand and emphasize with her plight - the guilt, the shame, the difficulty remembering. I was trying to plan for R. I was looking at myself: how gullible I was, how much I trusted, how I ignored signs, how I didn't address little issues and inconsistencies. I've been questioning my own manhood, my own self work, and the manner and which I've operated in life.

I have admissions to make. I've lusted after other women. Women have flirted with me, at work, contractors I've hired and that have tried to bond with me. I've did flirt back on a several occasions. I can think of at least five times, which means there must have been double that. I always believed myself capable of cheating and not just cheating, but bonding with and falling in love with another person. So I made it a goal to not put myself in compromising positions, not take unnecessary lunches, etc. So I didn't. But I most certainly sinned in my heart. For some reason I'm feeling very accountable for this. It might be her questioning me back that has me combing so carefully. I've always respected my own weakness enough to stay out of needing to keep any secrets. I don't really have secrets. It's a weird realization. Have I watched porn? yes. These sins of mind, they weigh heavily on me now and I'm obsessing trying to think of any phone flirtation, any secrets I wouldn't want her to know, or woman I may have encouraged to flirt with me. It's weird. I can't make sense of some of the time I spend thinking.

I reached a place yesterday where I knew I was trying to do too much and was getting ahead of myself. Trying to fix her, me, and our marriage: too much and way too fast. Also, asking her to help fix me is like asking an active arsonist to help put out the fires - as they are starting fires.

This revelation has given me some peace. I have put my chest out, my head up, and am working on work, working on eating, working on finding a state of mind to sleep. I have put on her the burden of disclosure, but she is not a safe place to go ask questions, so I'm not going to the arsonist to ask questions about her fire starting right now. She is free to write up her story and come to me, but I'm not acting pathetic and going to her.

I'm not being overly prideful. I realize I love my wife. I want our marriage. I have loved many parts of the life we built. But first and foremost is me. I know committing to eating, sleeping, and learning how to heal me sounds like ludicrously small goals, but they are my goals and I already feel better. I have a therapist and I'm going to take advantage of that. One step at a time.

And I'm sincerely sorry again for not listening when so many of you cared enough and spent the time to reach out to me. I did not respect your time or effort. Selfishly, if I had really listened, I could have saved myself a few brutal days. Bless you each one.