SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Well Apparition the path you have now set upon and your goals are excellent IMO. You emotions and confusion and feeling lost are normal. We read of so many good BS’s here that learn of a betrayal and instantly feel guilty and look at how they could have been a better partner. How they could have prevented the betrayal. But the fact is that nothing you did or didn’t do in your M caused her to stray. You seem very self-aware and you know your own weaknesses. None of us is perfect. We are all subject to temptation. But you used this self awareness to set up your own boundaries. This is what the vast majority of married people do. It’s not that we are immune from flirting or temptation. Our commitment to our partner and our M vows demand that we set boundaries. Notice I didn’t say that our love for our partner requires us to set boundaries. Romantic love or infatuation can fade over time, but the commitment does not. Stay on your path.

Some random thoughts...

I start with the belief that I can't predict the future beyond the next few minutes, at most. I add to that the beliefs that I don't know your W or you and that I don't know more about what's going on with you than you disclose in your posts.

I never felt insecure, but for the first time in my life I’m questioning myself. I’m wondering where I’ve fallen short as a man.

That's almost universal; women go through something similar.

The fact is, however, that your W cheated for her own reasons. She didn't cheat because of issues with you or your relationship. She cheated as a (monumentally ineffective) way of dealing with her own issues.

You're the same guy today that you were a week ago, with the same capabilities. You've received a terrible blow. It's natural to question yourself. But you can recover.

Lusting after other people in your heart seems to be pretty normal. I'm in the camp that says thoughts alone can't be criminal. Right now I'm watching a TV series in which the 15 year old Liu Yifei plays a big part, and she knocks me out. I'm 5 times her age, but my biology is my biology. I'm not going to beat myself up for it. Of course, I'm not trying to get in touch with her, either.

Actions count, not thoughts or feelings.

*****

Because your W cheated for her own reasons, working on your M is not directly to the point. Your W - not your M - failed.

*****

Recovering from being betrayed is a marathon, not a sprint. You've just started. Gently, it will probably get worse before it gets better. Think some months of getting worse and then a slow process of feeling better. Think 2-5 years to recover. R(econciliation) probably takes longer, because it's more work than just healing yourself.

*****

The data I've seen is that most Ms hit by infidelity don't break up, but I haven't seen data that's statistically valid.

Much more important, a large number of people R. A large number of people D. Therefore, you have options, all other things being equal.

*****

Do you really want R? Do you really want to spend the rest of your life with your W, knowing she's been so effed up?

IMO, recovering from being betrayed starts with figuring out what you want. If you already know, you're ahead of the game.

*****

If you want R, you need to observe your WS, because R takes 2.

You heal you.

Your WS heals herself.

Together you heal/(re)build your M.

If your W is not committed to doing the hard work, you cannot R. You can r(ugsweep), but you can't R(econcile) unless both of you do a lot of work.

I'm pretty uncertain about your W's quality as a candidate for R.

For example, in general, trickle truth is very negative for R. OTOH, there's a LOT of info your W has to get out into the open, so maybe a week or so or more info isn't a big indicator.

On yet another hand, not talking about all the red flags you noticed is in itself a red flag....

*****

Hallmarks of a good candidate for R are 1) no more lies, even though it will take a long time for you to recognize she's stopped lying, and 2) taking responsibility for her actions without blameshifting, minimizing, gaslighting, and with a diminishing amount of defensiveness.

A couple of examples:

When I asked the right question, my W said, 'I've been having sex with _____.' She didn;t start with, 'I'm being blackmailed,' which was true.

When answering my question about the start of sex, my W's answer was something like, 'She was doing ____, and I decided to ____.'

*****

If your W is willing to do the work necessary to change from betrayer to good partner, she can become a good partner. But is she willing? Will she do the work?

Personally, I think it's too early to tell.

*****

I recommend figuring out some requirements for R. Standard reqs include:

NC - no contact with ap; if ap initiates contact, report to BS and together decide how to respond

Honesty - WS answers BS's questions when they're asked, although sometimes a break is necessary, sometimes an answer is best deferred to MC session, etc., no more lies.

Transparency - BS has passwords to e-mail, voice-mail, phones, etc.; WS keeps BS informed of whereabouts, activities, and companions at all times; a corollary is closing any accounts on websites that encourage cheating.

IC for WS - to change the thoughts and feelings that supported the A, with signed release that enables C to talk with BS about WS's goals and progress (so the BS can make sure WS's IC isn't being lied to).

IC for BS - for support

MC - to help communications between the partners

Some (Most?) people have individual requirements - my W must arrange dates for us on a weekly basis and must initiate sex sometimes.

*****

Above all, know that you can heal from this, whether you D or R. You can survive and thrive.

[This message edited by sisoon at 12:38 PM, November 1st (Sunday)]

The hardest part is that all of us BS love our WS. We read advice for necessary actions to get out of Infidelity and that advice all ignore the fact that we are in love with our spouse. The advice is very Betrayed oriented.

So this is something for you to overcome. We can tell you all kind of logical reason why you should do this or that for your benefit, but you need to reach that turning point yourself. The moment where you say : I love my spouse but I won’t accept abuse from her. When you reach that point, this is when you’ll be able to process the advice here and take action.

Some people reach this point really quickly. Some take longer. Some never reach it and just disappear from SI.

It’s really hard to do, and it’s all up to you

I realize I love my wife. I want our marriage. I have loved many parts of the life we built. But first and foremost is me. I know committing to eating, sleeping, and learning how to heal me sounds like ludicrously small goals, but they are my goals and I already feel better. I have a therapist and I'm going to take advantage of that. One step at a time.

Do you realize you love an illusion and not the real person in front of you?

Do you realize the real person is a serial cheater and predator?

Do you realize most attempts to reconcile with serial cheaters are quite hellish experiences?

faithfulman, you have a pm.

I have admissions to make. I've lusted after other women. Women have flirted with me, at work, contractors I've hired and that have tried to bond with me. I've did flirt back on a several occasions. I can think of at least five times, which means there must have been double that. I always believed myself capable of cheating and not just cheating, but bonding with and falling in love with another person. So I made it a goal to not put myself in compromising positions, not take unnecessary lunches, etc. So I didn't. But I most certainly sinned in my heart.

Ughh this part of the path that infidelity puts us on. As an honest spouse they get you questioning yourself. Here is the important thing to keep in mind. So you were attracted to other women etc. Maybe even worse, perhaps you were sometimes mean about something. Or maybe you didn't meet her needs. or--- or--- or----

Did any of these 'less than perfect husband' thoughts or actions push you to lie, and later, gaslight your wife and emotionally abuse her ON PURPOSE? Sneak to do things you knew would harm her?

The difference between cheating/lying/deceit/gaslighting and anything less is well, the cheating/lying/deceit/gaslighting. Your lusting is not in any way, even a tiny little way, related to what she has done to you. This is not a couples problem. It is her problem. Sure you can work to fix about yourself what you would like, but her cheating is completely unrelated to those things.

Take care.

I think Sisoon offers good advice.

I want to focus a bit on this statement:

Much more important, a large number of people R. A large number of people D. Therefore, you have options, all other things being equal.

Unfortunately, I think a significant portion neither divorces nor reconciles. I think a lot find ways of living together without ever dealing with the big pink elephant in their marriage. For a month or months, the betrayed husband/wife threatens divorce, demands MC or whatever and the wayward husband/wife cries and promises improvement but doesn’t offer total access, end the affair properly, stays in contact… whatever. The AFFAIR per se might be over – as in not having sex – but the infidelity mindset hasn’t been dealt with.

I even venture that in most cases the affair is a one-off, and that the WS might not cheat again. But the sad fact remains that the couple that neither decided to divorce nor to reconcile simply develop to continue living together. Every now and then the affair is addressed in an argument: I should have left you when you cheated, and I should have left you for AP sort of solution.

Both R and D are really tough. Both are IMHO good paths out of infidelity. Both are A LOT better than the third option I describe above.

If you decide you want to reconcile then do so PROPERLY. Her not having an affair is only the first step, not the solution.

^^^yes!^^^

Well said. I have seen this situation in a very close friend. Probably no more cheating but not a pretty picture.

Great advice Bigger.

I have admissions to make. I've lusted after other women.

Humans have an admission to make. The thing that generates the feeling that motivates looking for a partner doesn't get automatically turned off when you find a partner.

That's one of the reasons why feelings are unreliable sources of permission to do stuff.

Interesting tidbit, the greatest volume of books sold within a genre are romance novels *by far*. Ever wonder why that is?

I've left some unanswered questions.

Yes, I've done an STD test, the call is supposed to come into me today/tomorrow. No obvious signs.

Yes, I do realize the image of my wife and the real wife I'm talking to now are not the same. Just as the image of my life is not consistent with what it was or what it may be going forward. I'm in uncertain and uncharted waters.

Yes, I do realize R with a serial cheater is hellish. I'm taking it one day at a time.

No, none of my "less than perfect" thoughts or actions led me to keeping ANY legit secrets from my wife or family. Secret thoughts, but no secret deeds. But I have been dwelling on my self esteem, my self image, what I've done and not done. I'm dwelling a lot my own gullibility.

Yes, I realize my wife has been a serial cheater and she has been willing to harm me even further with acid drip disclosures.

No, I'm not having her do a polygraph, it's reasonable, but not in my disclosure/information gather goals.

We're both doing therapy. She's working on a written full disclosure/time-line. I'm working on my business and myself. Reaching out to a friend for help. Back to helping my elderly parents with their needs, I went AWOL on them and feeling guilty.

Interesting tidbit, the greatest volume of books sold within a genre are romance novels *by far*. Ever wonder why that is?

And what's one of the biggest-selling "romance" novels of all time?

One about a fantasy of a cruel billionaire and sadist sexually dominating a 20-something young woman and taking her into his "red room."

In the decade between 2010 and 2019, this series of books dominates the top three slots in the top ten bestselling books.

In the decade between 2010 and 2019, this series of books dominates the top three slots in the top ten bestselling books.

The pocketbook doesn’t lie.

DO NOT, repeat, DO NOT make any of these confessions to your WW. She WILL use them against you in an effort to level the playing field, knock you off the moral high ground, distract from the capital crimes and real issues and make herself the victim with her own little DD.

My problem with the dumb book is that it does not reflect a healthy relationship in anyway . Nothing wrong with Bdsm if the rules are clear and consensual but what he was doing was grooming a young woman who had never had any type of sex before into the type of violent play only he knew for sure that he liked .

Also the mercenary angle of it was vomit inducing , although id argue late stage or consumerist capitalism has a tendency to reduce everyone into a bank account number

Yes, I do realize the image of my wife and the real wife I'm talking to now are not the same. Just as the image of my life is not consistent with what it was or what it may be going forward. I'm in uncertain and uncharted waters.

I had to face the reality that I too married a person who was not who she made herself out to be. She was able to keep up the act for 20 years. Pretty phenomenal actually. Like your WW, mine is a serial cheater. She has a taste for it and will not stop.

DO NOT question yourself. God created all of us a sexual beings. It is perfectly normal for a healthy male to be aroused by looking at an attractive woman. If this motivation did not exist, our species would have died off millennia ago. Where level people and cheaters diverge is that level people do not act on their impulses. Your WW may have started off with good intentions, but she obviously lacks the moral fiber to walk a straight line. Somewhere along the way she went bad. That is not your fault.

The idea of marriage is this: "I'm going to commit my life to this person. I'm going to forsake all others and bond myself physically, mentally, spiritually, and emotionally to him/her for life. I'm going to put her/his welfare and the welfare of our family before my own. I'm going to be honest. I'm going to speak my mind when I feel I have been wronged. I'm going to communicate my desires, fears and anger to my spouse openly and honestly. I'm going to be sexually and emotionally monogamous to my spouse for the rest of my life." See, waywards cannot follow these mantras. They are not constructed that way.

[This message edited by Westway at 5:26 PM, November 2nd (Monday)]

If you haven’t already, try to find the posts by beyond rage. His story is quite similar to yours. Tow alpha achievers in a perfect marriage. One day the wife starts fucking guys on business trips. Upon being caught, she freely admitted that she did it because she could, solely to fulfill her own desires.

Somehow, they cobbled together a plan to stay together. You might want to see how they did it for pointers on going forward.

[This message edited by longsadstory1952 at 6:06 PM, November 2nd (Monday)]

My problem with the dumb book is that it does not reflect a healthy relationship in anyway . Nothing wrong with Bdsm if the rules are clear and consensual but what he was doing was grooming a young woman who had never had any type of sex before into the type of violent play only he knew for sure that he liked .

Also the mercenary angle of it was vomit inducing , although id argue late stage or consumerist capitalism has a tendency to reduce everyone into a bank account number

Agreed. But it wasn’t men who made this book and it’s sequels the dominant bestsellers of a decade

[This message edited by Thumos at 7:05 AM, November 3rd (Tuesday)]

Sad but true ^

Apparition, in regards to your last post, you have nothing to apologize for. You are handling the process in the way that seems best for you. We all have a learning curve and handle things differently. I'm glad to hear that you have found some clarity and are able to focus on yourself and your healing. Your goals are not small. They are the right ones for you at this time. I wish you good luck in your healing and I hope that you will continue to reach out for help when you need it. There are a lot of smart folks here and they can provide some helpful advice. But you still have to do all the work, so take the advice that you find helpful.